Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] The nFinity project

Author
Message
bitJericho
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 28th May 2003 10:33 Edited at: 28th May 2003 10:44
We are looking for people within the DarkBASIC community to develop enjoyable games and demos for use with the nFinity project. Without the support of developers this console will never take off. The great thing about the console is that one doesn't have to buy it to develop on it. It's a console, but at it's heart a powerful computer. This post is to bring awareness to this project, and to see if people are willing to develop primarily to boost the knowledge of this project.

The nFinity project is a console being specifically developed with the bedroom programmer in mind. This project is set to bridge the gap between professional PC Developers and people at home who wish to bring their own imaginations and thoughts to life through their own video games. For the first time someone working within their own bedroom can develop games for this console the same way the development houses would be.

Unlike the Playstation 2 using YaBasic, the nFinity will be packing some serious heat with the use of the DarkBASIC Professional langauge. Although DarkBASIC is still at its very heart a BASIC language, all of the tools involved will propel this project into the professional field. Tools that even profession developers use.

The nFinity also stands to take advantage of the latest technology, namely, the GeForceFX and the simplified Bg(Basic for Graphics) it makes developing truely stunning, effects-filled games within the reach of anybody.

The nFinity's hardware is all current PC technology. This means you can create games on the nFinity and will be able to play them on your home PC, allowing both console and PC lovers to download, play, and enjoy any creations created within the nFinity.

Currently the proposed specifications are:

Via Technologies C3 933Mhz Processor
   64bit Processing Technology
   3dnow! & MMX extensions
   256Kb Cache
GeForceFX GPU
256Mb Unified DDR2 Ram
nForce2 Chipset
   Media Processing Unit
Firewire Cat5 Network
56kbps Modem
Dv Out (w/TV Adapter)
60gb ATA/100 HDD
8x DvD-CdRom
4x USB Connections

Standard Peripherals
   12button Controller w/2x 3D Sticks, Analouge buttons, DigitalPad & DigiPort
   Fully featured 105-key DigiPort-Keyboard

If you have any questions or comments feel free to email me at Jerico2day@yahoo.com

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
Puffy
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 28th May 2003 10:39
This looks like a good opertunity Rich... =P I hope its alright if I sticky it...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
davidt
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 12:14
I wasn't sure whether to post this here or email it, but anyway.

64bit processor! I didn't think Via was making 64 bit processors yet, and you say it's all current pc hardware. AMD have only just started releasing 64 bit processors and these are for servers. DDR2 memory isn't current pc hardware either, unless you mean it's on the graphics card. What do you mean by 'firewire CAT5 network' - firewire and CAT 5 are two different types of ports. Anyway, the spec certainly looks good - how much will it cost and is there a release date yet?

Did you mean that professional studios will be developing games for this, or will it be left so that people make their own games for it? Also, will all games be made in DarkBASIC, as if a professional team is going to make a game for it, I would have thought they would prefer a language like C++?

Is this console going to be released for all of the public like the Playstation 2 and others are, because I haven't seen anything about it on the internet?

Lots of questions, but I hope you can answer them. Also, how do you know this - are you involved in the project?

Thanks, David

Spec - Abit NF7-S nForce 2, AMD Athlon 2100+, 256Mb PC2700, ATI Radeon 9000Pro, 20Gb Seagate U6, DVD-ROM, Zip 100, 15" TFT monitor
The admiral
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 28th May 2003 12:37
He did say the latest in technology.

[href]www.vapournet.com/~flyer[/href]
UberTuba
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Brittania
Posted: 28th May 2003 14:13 Edited at: 28th May 2003 14:16
as it's just a pc you probably could just use c++ although c++ has
a much longer development time and if the nfinity project pointed to darkbasic then i think most proffesional programmers would prefer to use db, and that goes without saying for home coders.

asfor the console, more processer power and dsl or broadband

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 28th May 2003 16:17
Yes, sounds very nifty to say the least.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 17:24 Edited at: 28th May 2003 17:25
I thought that VIA's processors weren't too hot for games?

An Athlon 1800+ would be a better bet. You could buy one for £50!

So, a thought for a system:

Processor: Athlon 1800+ : £50
Graphics Card: GeForce FX 5200 : £66.50
Motherboard: nForce 2 : (has networking / sound features onboard): £80
HDD: 40GB Barracuda : £44.50
Keyboard: Slim Keyboard PS/2 : £3.50
Mouse: Belkin 3 Button Black Mouse : £4.70
Modem: 56KB/s Internal: £8.50
ATX Case: £29.01
16x DVD: £25 << For playing DVDs
52x CD R/W: £32 << Ability to burn CDs is essential
RAM: 256MB : £25

Total: £368.70

That of course would not factor in any software costs. But that would provide a reasonably fast, fully DX9 / OGL 2 compliant PC.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 28th May 2003 18:27
Hmmm... believe it when I see it? No-one in their right mind would release a new console these days (unless you happen to be called Sony or Microsoft), especially one that sounds like a medium-spec PC. I'd like to see a lot more info before we follow this further.

Cheers,

Rich "skeptic, yeah, maybe" Davey

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th May 2003 18:38
i wouldn't mind knowing where the hell you shop Rob to get an nForce2 for less than £120

that aside i'd like to make this statement,
"The decision and use of the current technologies within the nFinity was made to reduce overall power requirements as well as internal heating requirements so that we could have a viable system which run cool enough not to have much need for fan based cooling systems.
It is a firm belief that any home user will wish to have a quieter running Console in thier living room than current PC and GeForce standards will allow.

Although the technology itself is not finalised, the span of the idea comes from making a sound games development platform rather than a platform which can compete head to head with current mainstream consoles. Our efforts however do currently put this machine to be far faster than even the X-Box which means that although our intention is not to make it the fastest, due to our current use of technology it will appear to achieve this goal with some relative ease.
The decision to include a DigiPort Keyboard rather than a fullsize keyboard with mouse is also based on making the system a valid development platform for not just adults but children as well.
The smaller buttons on the DigiPort Keyboard make it idea for young children to use and get used to using the Right 3D-Stick as a Mouse and the Shoulder/Trigger Buttons as the Mouse Buttons, but at the same time it has been designed for adults to be able to use with 2 thumbs extremely efficiently as well.
A full size keyboard is planned as well though for those who wish to touchtype thier Emails, Chat Messages & Program."

now down to an unofficial commenting, you will not find any links anywhere to this becuase firstly WE DO NOT want the other developers to get wind of it ... we cannot compete against Sony's Playstation3 yet. The idea here is just to get the community of developers interested in working on titles which would have a chance of being released along with the console.
although we can get professional developers working on C++ & DirectX based games for this console (and there are 2) the aim of this console is to show that using the dbp language even the home user can achieve professional results and what better way than our very own community made up of the very audience which this is being aimed at to develop these titles.

hopefully this has put to rest alot of questions you may have had.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Andy Igoe
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 18:40
Interesting but,

No mouse = No real time strategy games.
No trackball = No first person shooter games.

Pneumatic Dryll
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 19:38
"Hmmm... believe it when I see it?"

You won't, it is obviously not going to be made as a console and yes it will never likely get any further than the sketch book, but it is fun discussing it

I regularly build PCs for people though, so I could try the above specification I posted when I next get a chance, and the price point is pretty attractive.

"i wouldn't mind knowing where the hell you shop Rob to get an nForce2 for less than £120"

dabs.com

or British Computer Fairs

"No mouse = No real time strategy games.
No trackball = No first person shooter games."

You don't need a trackball for FPS games, just a mouse and a keyboard.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Sephnroth
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 21:23 Edited at: 28th May 2003 21:23
"although we can get professional developers working on C++ & DirectX based games for this console (and there are 2)"

two professional devlopers? i doubt you are going to answer.. but im going to ask anyway.. who?

Have you got a prototype of this 'console' made? DirectX based games suggest a windows runtime enviorment too. So this thing is basically going to be a pc then with a tv out? No special bios or runtime env's? Who's funding this project?

Personally, i like to dream that a handful of small devlopers of any kind could make a console (even if its just a pc in a box, hell, xbox got away with it) and stand a chance - but im going to have to see some sort of proof of this, lol

hmm, so darkbasic games will run and c/c++ dx games.. so.. you could technically just install any pc game on to this 'console' and they would run? hmm

p4 2.4ghz, 256ddr ram, Geforce4 MX 440
Innovate, redefine, recreate whats in your mind. It isnt fate, you decide, only you can cross that line.
hexGEAR
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Nov 2002
Location: Naytonia
Posted: 28th May 2003 22:20
hey, sounds like an innovative idea would be cool if you could pull it off!

everyday of life is a new chapter that has already been fortold but is up to the soul to capture.
UberTuba
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Brittania
Posted: 28th May 2003 22:21
if it was actually produced it would cost far less than $368
most of those items are 10% manufacturing 90% profits you could easily half that price just by buying wholesale

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 22:34
"cost far less than $368"

@DarkFluff - I meant £368, not $368, there is a big difference.

But yes, I take your point.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th May 2003 22:53
technically the games would run... but it would require a complete rewrite of the kernel installed on the system and although the technology used is released there will be some subtle differences to prevent the console being used as an actual PC.

The essence of what it'll be able to do will be to effectively surf the internet particularly TimeWarner-AOL because they provide a service which allows only thier own users to access special sites on the AOL Internet (the game area is sponsored and run by Eletronic Arts incase you are wondering)
In this section there will be links to DarkBasic, but also a special area for downloading software only compatible with this console - suchas update DLLs for DBP, Game, Operating System Patchs which are searched for and run at runtime and other interesting things.

Although in the spirit of being able to use the PC itself to connect through the Ethernet Socket or USB Sockets will be available, the actual access to the machine itself will be limited to just really the Drive (for reading/writing games) and the second of the HDD which contains your DBP projects and downloaded games.

however for obvious reasons i'm not going to explain current plans on how the media is planned to be protected from piracy nor how the OS is going to also be protected from unathourised access. However i'm sure the ideas which have been thrown around so far will be fully developed over the comming few months to give you security that noone can steal your games or simply use the hardware however they choose. Atleast not easily.

a point should be made that as soon as the prototype is complete to a fairly bugfree level (enough to test software) then it will be asked of DBS that the dongle version of DBP could be edited for another kinda of hardware check, again i will not say what but would be fair to say that it would be impossible for a home hacker to accomplish it.

the Box itself should be running on an edited version of NT 5.x whether that is NT 5.0 or 5.1 is still being debated to be honest, but either way it will be running DirectX 9.0 and so will be setup for DBPs patch5 and 6 updates

although no i will not reveal who the proffesional developers are at this time, i'm sure within the next few month it will become common knowlage who they are and why this machine is so interesting to them.
all i can say is i think you will all be pleasently surprised at not only who they are.
and no doubt as nVidia themselves are more and more into the swing of this and confident about what is actually being developed they too will be making announcements.
however as development has been going on for only 1 week so far, we are just really looking for teams who have the time to put into making this console what it is.
as although it could be the best technology in the world, without the support and creation of titles from the DB community this project will fall into the same problem that the N64 did 7years ago.

as soon as the details are finalised i'll also be releasing the press release of nVidia's "Developers Consortium Agreement" which for those teams who can't work without financial backing the terms and agreement that you consign to and what FMTau will be authorised to pay to teams for development or full titles.
The agreement will not stop as soon as the console hits the shops either, those teams which help to produce the gamebase will go onto being Senior Developers and get to vote on and decide what games nVidia will publish as full titles once the console is released.
Which means that unlike the Playstation community which was stifled we will be actually rewarding those who don't just want to play games and actually make worth while software, a bit like the return of Public Domain Software ... only difference will be is that you will see your game actually on the shelf in your local shops all proffesionaly packaged.

As i've mentioned the emphasis on this project is to not just get gamers playing the console, but also make the community feel like if they develop something they won't have to plug it like crazy just to make a few bucks... but that thier games will be actively developed and will make the console what it is.

a small final note, the software produced hopefully will be another edit by the DBS team to create 2 different executables -
nFinity Bootup Executeable and Standard Win32 Executeable, meaning that games will be able to be played cross platform if the developers choose to release ... but the nFinity's hardware will also be specicially written for, meaning that it'll be far more compatible, stable and quicker (well thats the theory anyways)

i'll now be leaving all the rest of the information that you could possibly ask over to Jerico to answer to the best of his knowlage, also feel free to email him about developers information

thank you

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 23:00 Edited at: 28th May 2003 23:01
Why do you want to lock the unit so much? Surely making it a free-access unit would make it much more popular.

A pure games-playing console for £350 (or say £250 for wholesale purchasing) is not a good deal.

A console which has full PC functionality (hidden unless you want to access it) is a good deal.

Besides DBP executables are about as secure as an origami safe, so it would be quite laughable to try and secure the thing.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 23:03
"now down to an unofficial commenting, you will not find any links anywhere to this becuase firstly WE DO NOT want the other developers to get wind of it ..."

LOL

If any Sony dev guy saw that, he would be laughing his ass off. Stop the worry about secrecy and security, with PC technology, you could easily allow developers to use SecuROM / SafeDisc (not a good idea) / StarFORCE if they really were THAT concerned with piracy.

Besides this idea is a nice thought, but I would be shocked if it actually went anywhere. Like Rich - watching and waiting...

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th May 2003 23:08
"then it will be asked of DBS that the dongle version of DBP could be edited for another kinda of hardware check"

I'd give that 5 minutes...

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th May 2003 00:42
Quote: "If any Sony dev guy saw that, he would be laughing his ass off."


this isn't being planned as some short gap solution console, i'm sure the others who are aware of the plans would back me up in saying that this has been planned to the letter with the future very much in mind

oh btw there is now an estimate ... £180 / $300 per unit thats what the planned release price is, and this is only projected - it is hoped that it will be cheaper still.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 29th May 2003 02:04
I personally think a purely multiplayer console with built in broadband like the Phantom would be the path to take these days. Actually, my bet is that the Phantom will honestly kick some serious ass and make the X-Box, PS2, PS3 and whatever else look like rubbish.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 02:08
The PS2 is a crap console, yet it outsells its rivals 3 to 1, which just goes to proove the point that marketing is god and capital is Jesus.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th May 2003 02:37
well you guys know me
i could market air in a box if you gave me the chance hehee

i just hope that we can get enough interest from the developers that are actually going to matter... you guys

however we have actually thought about the point of multiplayer, i don't want to say what is planned for that - but with out setup i'm sure you can figure it out on your own lol
(hint would be in the builtin Dialup & Broadband Connections lol)

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 03:08
"well you guys know me"

something came into my head pertaining to you about a link between talk and action, but I won't articulate it.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Andy Igoe
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 05:11
Quote: " personally think a purely multiplayer console with built in broadband like the Phantom "


Like the what?

It'll never do very well unless a few people hear about it - and I havn't heard of the Phantom. Isn't it a Royal Airforce jet? The Phantom F4!

Joking aside, a multiplayer console would rock, and I do hope that the console isn't tied into AOL for that very reason - as AOL's only broadband support in the UK is with BT, and it works out horribly expensive compared to going to either BT or NTL for an all-in-one broadband & ISP solution (about twice the price for BT + AOL).

Forgiving AOL for their software for a moment, which one would hope is more stable in the reduced-OS console environment, the issue of service cost cannot be overlooked when comparing to say, an iMac or even just a bog standard PC.

You can't seriously expect a modem to carry any weight anymore, although support is needed as not everyone has broadband availability or even the desire for it, but you have to consider broadband to be the base upon which you work if online gaming is to be a serious viability.

Quote: "The decision to include a DigiPort Keyboard rather than a fullsize keyboard with mouse is also based on making the system a valid development platform for not just adults but children as well.
"


This is a little nagging worry, the largest cross section of the public who buy computer games is? The mid-20's male. The largest cross section of the public who program computer games is? The mid-20's male.

I think this really excludes the viability of bundling DBPro with the console, and therefor the marketting premise as I understand it.

Quote: "You don't need a trackball for FPS games, just a mouse and a keyboard."


Some people do play FPS games with a mouse rather than a trackball. This is because they don't have a trackball.

FPS=Trackball=FPS

Trackballs in other applications though are very much down to personal taste - personally I wouldn't use anything else as I type enough to understand what RSI really is. Some people hate trackballs, therefor it is better for manufacturers to provide the non-offensive mouse.

I do believe the lack of a mouse is a mistake. Many genre's of game just arn't as playable without one.

Quote: " 12button Controller w/2x 3D Sticks, Analouge buttons, DigitalPad & DigiPort"


No force feedback? Not even a 'rumble' pack - lol, actually dont do a rumble pack but force feedback at least as an option would be a requirement in my mind, because once you've tried one there really is no going back - and some end-users are going to feel the same way.

Also support for the Saitek R4 and Sidewinder FF wheel would be very much appreciated - in this household at least!



I've raised a few points here, mostly of user-input methodology. I appreciate that my views are based very strongly from the perspective of somebody who has always hated joypads and generally dislikes consoles.

That said I have always felt there is a place for a PC based console and I was very dissapointed to see the X-Box turn into a PC that isn't a PC and get a whopping, huge, unjustified price tag.

I look forward to this console and it's potential, and my opinions over the input system (and AOL's prices) aside will be developing software for it.

Please send 18 test systems to the address supplied....

Pneumatic Dryll
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th May 2003 06:21
lol don't worry Pneu ... the controller isn't set in stone yet, infact none of the features are - these are just what we're going for as the base.

and actually since you talked to me the otherday i've redesigned the ENTIRE controller away from the DualShock/GameCube look and features to something interesting would be a good word.
Have to say though mate i've always HATED trackballs ... truely dispised the bloody things - so it might be a bit ironic to know that i've designed one into the controler, and also the 3D Stick has gone being replaced by a... hehee well you'll just have to wait for the design mockups

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 29th May 2003 10:35
Quote: "Quote:

personally think a purely multiplayer console with built in broadband like the Phantom


Like the what?

It'll never do very well unless a few people hear about it - and I havn't heard of the Phantom. Isn't it a Royal Airforce jet? The Phantom F4!
"




http://www.infiniumlabs.com

Lol, actually it's the name of that purple comic dude. Anyway, they used to have a pretty cool flash movie on the site but it's gone now and instead is a short description that doesn't explain much. I believe the jist of it was that the console came with built-in broadband that allowed you to download games to it and play them online with everyone else. So instead of going to store to buy the games, you could download them and be playing within 10 minutes.

Why they haven't been advertising is unknown to me, probably because it's still in early stages. Or it could be a hoax like this article is suggesting:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/383/383280p1.html

But who knows in this crazy world anymore. If it's real, I'm game.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 14:51
"Some people do play FPS games with a mouse rather than a trackball. "

Thresh plays with a mouse.

Trackballs are not really ideal for FPS games at all, I have a trackball and I find the mouse much more responsive and accurate for playing FPS games with.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
MrTAToad
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 17:16
Anyone know if Infinium Labs was at E3?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 29th May 2003 17:34
That's the same thing I was wondering, heh.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Darkheart
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2003
Location:
Posted: 29th May 2003 18:16 Edited at: 29th May 2003 18:42
Raven you are SO full of shit.

"the Box itself should be running on an edited version of NT 5.x whether that is NT 5.0 or 5.1 is still being debated to be honest, but either way it will be running DirectX 9.0 and so will be setup for DBPs patch5 and 6 updates"

Bwahaha! You have the NT5.x source code and a liscense to distribute your own version???

This proposition is completely laughable.

I'm pleased to see DBS ignoring this one, I guess they've had enough of supporting hoaxes after last year.

Infinium was a no show at E3 BTW they are now saying they will be at UGO instead, yeah, right. I doubt they will ever release a console.

Darkheart

Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 19:03
"and actually since you talked to me the otherday i've redesigned the ENTIRE controller away from the DualShock/GameCube look and features to something interesting would be a good word.
Have to say though mate i've always HATED trackballs ... truely dispised the bloody things - so it might be a bit ironic to know that i've designed one into the controler, and also the 3D Stick has gone being replaced by a... hehee well you'll just have to wait for the design mockups"

So erm... can we even see a single sketch of this "controller" ?

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
The Darthster
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 19:47
I'd completely forgotten about the Phantom, wasn't it supposed to have 30 billion launch titles or something? Lol that IGN report is funny, "I guess you can expect little to no more information, ever."

Fps games are perfectly playable using two or even one analogue stick (see Goldeneye for the 64), although I do prefer a mouse. I've never tried using a trackball for anything.

What could you have possibly replaced a stick with to make it better? A light gun? A tiny little mouse that you use with your thumb? A glove that you wear and input signals with? A device that connects directly to your brain, thus eliminating the need for hands? I'm interested to find out.

Quote: "I guess they've had enough of supporting hoaxes after last year. "


What happened? I must have missed that.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
Ian T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 29th May 2003 19:55
Nice idea. Flying pigs is also a nice idea. Bill Gates donating all his money to chariites is also a nice idea. It's all equally impossible. Even if you do find an interested company to manufacture it for you, those specs are WAY too expensive for any 'bedroom coder' to be interested in buying, let alone an overkill (64 bit???) for DBpro's current state.

As I said... nice idea.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Andy Igoe
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 20:33
Quote: "
Even if you do find an interested company to manufacture it for you
"


I think there's a clue in the name. As for cost, this is more down to who makes it and how many than it has to do with the specification. The mouse/trackball/whatever you are using now costs around 50p to make, or upto £2 for a good one. I bet you, just like the rest of us consumers, paid significantly more.

Quote: "
Bwahaha! You have the NT5.x source code and a liscense to distribute your own version???

This proposition is completely laughable.
"


Getting licenses for projects like this isn't terribly hard, the only hurdle here however could be Microsofts involvement with the X-Box.

However I suspect that gread will win over, and Microsoft will want to be the standard OS on yet another platform. Thus ensuring that we all turn out to be good little customers.

Quote: "
So erm... can we even see a single sketch of this "controller" ?
"


I've started work on my first nFinity game project, and it isn't a sketch of the controller I want

Pneumatic Dryll
Ian T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 29th May 2003 20:48
...you're implying that Microsoft would actually bother to contact you about this? I'm sorry, but the possibility they'd even hear about it, let alone care, seems... ridiculous.

Excuse me if I misunderstood though.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Andy Igoe
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 21:04
Quote: "sorry, but the possibility they'd even hear about it, let alone care"


The way to get a lisence is not to put an ad in the paper and hope the person/company you want will see it.

Although it's much smaller scale than this, i've acquired licenses for a multitude of media in the past - only a few days back I talked StudioX into letting me use screengrabs from Desktop Dreamscapes in my Asteroids game as the backdrops - the game music is by Rachel Nusbaumer - again used under lisense and in Episode V: Battle for Hoth I talked Lucus Arts into letting me use sound effects from the Star Wars trilogy in the game, yep - those sound effects are actually authorised!

That's quite some accomplishment in getting licenses for what really amounts to a hobby.

When you ask in the right way, you'd be suprised what you can accomplish.

Pneumatic Dryll
sicjoshsic
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 21:08
this sounds just like the 'db-box' post. is that what it is?
in that case, then basically all this is is a pc in disguise!

you could make your pc into one easy, just start-up a program in full screen so that you can't see windows and plug into your tv via a tv-out, all it'd take is a little programming knowledge to make a program which runs on top of windows.

this would cost way too much to ever develop as a console, the only way you could do it cheaply would be to make your own parts (which i doubt anyone using a BASIC language can do well enough )

the cost of all the licenses that you'd need would alone amount to more than the cost of a current console

Andy Igoe
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th May 2003 21:26
Quote: "the only way you could do it cheaply would be to make your own parts (which i doubt anyone using a BASIC language can do well enough )"


/shrug. I used to be chief of engineering for Scala UK, whilst there I worked on the development of many cutting edge televisual technologies like the first hardware MPEG decoders, the Iranian teletext system (96 characters in Farsii, ouch!) and the first working digital TV interfaces your using on your cable boxes today.

I'm not working on the hardware for the nFinity btw, but I just thought i'd make this point. There is more depth and diversity of skills here than perhaps you realise.

Pneumatic Dryll
David T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 29th May 2003 22:47
Is this that DB-BOX project that was advertised a few weeks ago?

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
Ian T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 29th May 2003 22:59
Dryll, yes, you can get licences for lots of things. It's actually not a very big thing to pull sounds from the trilogy, Lucas Arts has a history of letting just about everybody do that (for the two obvious reasons). I'm not trying to insult-- I am impressed by what you've done-- but surely you realize that OSs are a whole different ball game, and the fact that the OS is Microsoft's pushes it out of reach of almost everybody.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Shadow Robert
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th May 2003 23:04
Rob i do have a few sketchs... nothing i'd want to actually show right now because they just really really really bad
i'll try again a little later when i fly home though probably have the results up sometime over the night, might also finish a decent sketch of the console itself.

on the part about the Windows Kernel. Some of you may be unaware that Microsoft have released something called the Windows Core SDK, which essentially for the most part is the Windows Source Code ... including multiple build environments, all the basic aspects of how Windows works, how DirectX is now used for all the Drivers, etc.
Also included is the Windows 4 Kernel and Windows 5 Kernel now they are there specifically so that you can redevelop the base of windows for a specific system need. A good example would be SGI's new QuadroFX workstation.
Of course this requires a License, but if you believe that Microsoft would turn it down then i'm not sure you understand how License Schemes work at all.
The main problem Microsoft would have is if we used the Kernel to create our own OS which we were going to retail, then we'd probably end up paying a unit royalty for use. As this is for a set technology not subject for resale on its own then a usual fee of around $1,000,000 probably would be about right for the License.
To FMTau thats a big chunk of change, but its not FMTau Licenseing nor is it us developing ... and i'm pretty sure the company that is can afford it.

as for it being cheaper, i've already noted that we're projecting a price of £180 which is our maximum price here.
Compaired with the £380 that RobK projected for single parts (and his doesn't include labour costs or p&p either so you could easily addon another £25-30) ... i don't see us getting many customers with a console which costs almost twice as much as the competitors and will not been seen as an equal either, but as an underdog. You really think people would part with £400 for this?
Sure it would be just a PC in a box and therefore cheap, but we're not aiming this as just a PC in a box - and it isn't being developed as a PC in a box.
Add to this we also hope to get the price down within 3-4months of release to something more respectable like £120 after the initial takeup.

Which for something which can do all the bells & whistles that a PS2 and X-Box can do as well as development platform and have the best graphics and power on the market for hopefully a year before the PS3 is released. Well we're hoping that the price and appeal of features is enough to convince people that it would be worth it.

Also think about the appeal of the Modification community, thousands of gamers playing games you've developed yourself ... that is the exact same appeal this machine is going to have. Only rather than saying "hey you like my cool Unreal2 Mod?" you'll have made it all, and more importantly if enough people like it, then you'll be offered money for it to be actually published.

in the end it would be nice to see the console have a huge title range and only half of them from professional developers. It would be even better to see the most popular titles being the ones that everyone has said "yeah we want to see a full version of this!"

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:12 Edited at: 30th May 2003 00:12
"then i'm not sure you understand how License Schemes work at all."

Microsoft's licensing schemes are best explained in this multimedia EULA produced by Microsoft Research:

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~pyang/base/allyourbase.swf

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Ian T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:14
'as for it being cheaper, i've already noted that we're projecting a price of £180 which is our maximum price here.
Compaired with the £380 that RobK projected for single parts (and his doesn't include labour costs or p&p either so you could easily addon another £25-30) ... i don't see us getting many customers with a console which costs almost twice as much as the competitors and will not been seen as an equal either, but as an underdog. You really think people would part with £400 for this?
Sure it would be just a PC in a box and therefore cheap, but we're not aiming this as just a PC in a box - and it isn't being developed as a PC in a box.
Add to this we also hope to get the price down within 3-4months of release to something more respectable like £120 after the initial takeup.'

Yes, that all makes perfect since, except for that fact that you wouldn't be making a profit and therefore your 'company' would die in days.



--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:14
"i don't see us getting many customers with a console which costs almost twice as much as the competitors and will not been seen as an equal either,"

I don't see us getting any "customers" at all. I don't see us getting any "product" either.

Anyhow, have you factured in manufacturing costs? How, where and with what capital would you make it?

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
sicjoshsic
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:24
you don't understand! you can't sell it for £120, EVER! you'll be losing about £300minimum per 'console' at that price! you just won't get the parts cheap enough.

the only way this will ever take off is to make a tutorial telling people how to make their own, with downloadable software for it

Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:41
Agreed.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Darkheart
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2003
Location:
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:50
This is the biggest pile of bullshit ever!

Raven I'll lay you odds of 100:1 that this console never sells 500 (or more) units. I'll take any bet you want to make as long as you pay up front and the spec and cost is as you describe.

Now that sounds like a damn good investment to me, come up with £10 and I'll pay you out £1000. You have 12 months from today to claim your cash, but I want to meet every "Ravenbox" owner.

Not a betting man? Could have fooled me if you are remotely serious about this sh!t.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

Darkheart

Rob K
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 00:58
"Add to this we also hope to get the price down within 3-4months of release to something more respectable like £120 after the initial takeup."

Umm Raven... the components cost more to MAKE that £120. Even if you got everything at the price it costs to manufacture the item it would cost more than that. Unless you want to make a hefty per unit loss - except that we don't have umpteen billion in spare cash like MS.

Plus you keep saying "we", who is "we"?

The only thing that could ever happen with this "console" is that it is published as a set of instructions on the web.

£370 is great value for a modern PC.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Karlos
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 30th May 2003 01:19
I really hope you guys have done your market research.
Some time ago I came up with an idea for a website. I built the core engine and got the whole thing running - I took the idea to a marketing company who kindly took my money (~£1000) to perform trial marketing of a target area.
Basically I have a good site on a great idea with a great brand name BUT it didn't look good enough so they would have had trouble selling it.
An artist friend I work with is now designing each page so it will sell better.
I have been told my marketing costs for the full launch which are not cheap.
I have registered a limited company, set up a bank account, sorted out vat registration, liability insurance, credit card payment authorisations, SSL certificates, web hosting, back ups, data collection, accountancy fees, stationary(sp), etc. etc.
I've spent a lot of money and I've not even launched yet.

What I'm saying is... take a step back and look at everything before you get carried away. There are soooo many things involved in running a company.

Good luck - it's hard work.

Karlos

If it ain't broke - try harder.
W2K Pro - Geforce2 MX400 64MB - Athlon 900

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-03-29 15:54:42
Your offset time is: 2024-03-29 15:54:42