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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Task Force 341 Guns Revival? I THINK SO! (ErrantAI needs to look at this NOW!) [W.I.P]

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 03:14 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 01:48
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I'm producing some new models today for the TF 341 kit I purchased... got tired of the same old media popping up in all the threads so I took it into my own hands to get my team of totally professional high school friends to try our hand at modelling and rigging the weapons to the animations, since they currently offer the most and we can't be bothered to animate ourselves.

Anyways, the guns I am working on are ( = done, = unfinished)

- M249 (Now the Mk. 46) [CANCELLED DUE TO BEING A RIP]

- M4 (Now the M16A3, M16A3 Scoped, M16A3 CCO, etc.)







- M1014 (Now the Super 90, just a different model, and the camo arm rig wasn't finished)





- M9 (Now the 92F, USP9, P226, etc.)[ERRANT, NEED YOUR HELP WITH THIS ONE.]

- M203 Versions of the M4 (M16A3 M203 and etc.)

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Fuzz
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 04:21
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Wow! These are actually really cool. My only problem is that you have the forward assist on the left side of the M16.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 04:30 Edited at: 10th Jul 2012 04:30
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Aha, do I? Alright, I'll mirror the vertex's to solve that problem. My friend originally designed the guns for a Counter Strike server he was hosting, but thought they'd be of better use here.

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Fuzz
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 04:34
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Yeah haha you know what the forward assist is? But great work!

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 04:50
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Yeah, I do. Aha, I'm a huge gun nerd, and hopefully this little revival will catch Errant's attention.

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Fuzz
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 05:04
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I hope so too. These are sweet!

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King Fluffs
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 09:35
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Nice.

Swift Beta Studios
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sic1ne
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 11:31
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looks awsome can theese be released with errants permission?

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bobochobo
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 14:31
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Quote: "looks awsome can theese be released with errants permission?"


No.

Quote: " rigging the weapons to the animations"


You'll errants permission to release them as the op understands.
If you want to associate with TF341, you will probably need his permission for that too.

All browsers should come with compulsory spell checks.

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loler
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 16:38
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looks very nice
would be awesome if errant integrate these to the tf341 pack

its not a bug its a feature
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 10th Jul 2012 20:57
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Yeah, wish he could. That would bring a lot of variety into the TF-341 pack. I've gotten all the view models worked out for each of the working guns too. So that way you will know who's got what.

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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 00:15
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Quote: "- M9 (Now the 92F, USP9, P226, etc.)[ERRANT, NEED YOUR HELP WITH THIS ONE.]"


How so?

Quote: "looks awsome can theese be released with errants permission?"

Quote: "would be awesome if errant integrate these to the tf341 pack"


Not going to happen as the models appear to be of dubious origins. The MK46 appears to be at least partially ripped from COD. I don't know about the others. I have to be rather strict about permitting user-made weapons because my customers need to feel confident that any media associated with me is completely safe for commercial use.
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 00:50 Edited at: 11th Jul 2012 00:51
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Yeah, my friend took some reference images from CoD and used it to make the Mk. 46, he didn't do too good of a job with the modeling, I'm noticing some missing parts the further I mess around with it, so we'll have to come up with something else...

Quote: "How so?"


About the pistols... Fragmotion tends to mess up the animations with the TiRANT silencer joint. It makes it permanently present no matter what. And the arm rig I've set up for the camouflage is rather odd looking. Could you guide me through the rigging process for the handgun? Thanks.

Oh and about the M249... it appears you have a texture for an M145 machine gun optic... what happened?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 01:32
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Quote: "Yeah, my friend took some reference images from CoD and used it to make the Mk. 46, he didn't do too good of a job with the modeling"


Well, if it's missing anything it's because Infinity Ward didn't put it there. I think it's more than a bit of a stretch to say your friend used reference pics.

A quick net search netted ripped files from COD on facepunch and it's safe to say the models are the same...



If your friends are giving you ripped assets and telling you they're legit, you don't need enemies.

Quote: "About the pistols... Fragmotion tends to mess up the animations with the TiRANT silencer joint. It makes it permanently present no matter what. And the arm rig I've set up for the camouflage is rather odd looking. Could you guide me through the rigging process for the handgun? Thanks."


The TiRant has no animation of it's own. It is dummy-linked to a hidden object named "CAN" that handles the motion and scaling for the on/off illusion.

Quote: "Oh and about the M249... it appears you have a texture for an M145 machine gun optic... what happened?"


Explanation is here... http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=181173&b=24&msg=2364154#m2364154
MGO version will be included in the re-release.
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bobochobo
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 01:40
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I'm not vouching for anyone here but there's a couple of differences in those pictures, although they do look remarkably similar, especially the "109-18" in what looks like matching pressure.

All browsers should come with compulsory spell checks.

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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 01:54
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@bobochobo those two differences are only because of rigging(red) and lighting (blue). There are some actual minor differences here and there but not enough to make the model legit.
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 02:03
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Well, that has to be the only ripped model, I looked at the rest and they're legitly his... I guess he was so caught up in pumping these out that he ripped one... oh well.

So what do I do to get the silencer back to working operation for these handguns? And how do I get this annoying camo arm out of my way?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 02:14
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I seriously wouldn't trust anyone who's ripped "only once" because next you'll hear "I only used it as a template" or "I forgot which one I made and which one I ripped", etc., etc.

As long as you still have the CAN object in the model scene and link your silencer mesh to it, it should work fine. I don't know what's happening with your sleeve. It looks like it's got un-welded verts and funky vertex weighting or something.
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Zwarte Piet
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 02:26
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(I seriously wouldn't trust anyone who's ripped "only once" because next you'll hear "I only used it as a template" or "I forgot which one I made and which one I ripped", etc., etc.)

I have to agree with Errant AI on that qoute

"I would rather make a bad model, instead of pirate a great one" MY DAD "Now let's Make some Models" me "If you don't make it don't post it"
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 02:40
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Yeah, true. I've searched up and down, and no one else has used that M10 and M16 model, so it must be either a Creative Commons attribute model, or actually his. At this point IDK

Well, I'll try that with the pistol, but the problem is, it EXPORTS and when I open it in MS3D it loses it's bone assignment and becomes a permanent part of the pistol.

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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 03:21
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Hmm not sure what to tell you about the silencer. It could be an issue that you are losing hierarchy data because the parent object (CAN) is hidden. If that's the case, it would also explain why you were having issues with aiming animation alignment (I use hidden objects quite a bit for adjusting alignment offsets and such). However, other's haven't had the same issues so it could be a problem with your export settings. Worse case scenario you just have to re-animate that part.

Is your friend "Kruku"?
http://gamebanana.com/css/skins/104957

The easiest way to verify is usually to see working files. Most artists who know better will have a few working files which will show the model as it progresses.

Most weapon artists will also usually have some minor details that make the model identifiable to its creator/origin. Examples would be things like the two-piece mag tube, after-market rails and alternating up/down cartridges in the side-saddle on the Benelli. Another would be the use of the Para/SPW stock on the Mk46.

As A side note, I can see the normal maps having issues as I warned you about in a previous thread. (I'm guessing you're using multiple texture sheets?)
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 03:26
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Yes, I am, and I don't know how to be able to create bump maps or whatever you may use to create them.

Quote: "Is your friend "Kruku"?"


Actually, that's one of my design team. He's pretty damn good if I may say so myself, even if he does live out of state. We skype from time to time to brainstorm. As I've brought up previously to someone else on this thread, he thought the models would be put to better use here than through Counter Strike.

But, I understand your doubts here Errant. I wouldn't want to tarnish your good reputation either.

Oh! I think it's time we designed some bullpup animations isn't it Errant? It would be great for the community to have AUG's and FAMAS rifles.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 20:55
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WWC has a nice famas anim, abdul ahad did it for me one day by just auto-keying the hand back after he took it off the gun in the anim.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 22:05
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Who might WWC be? And can you get him in contact with me?

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Bugsy
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 22:11
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WWC is my game dude
"When Worlds Collide"

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 11th Jul 2012 22:18 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 06:09
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Oh crap, well then, what might it take to get those model animations off your hands? If you do decide to give them to me, I will offer anything to you [REMOVED]

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Wolf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:18
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Quote: "we can't be bothered to animate ourselves."


You mean...they can't. If they can't be bothered, they are just lazy.

Also why does EAI need to see these?

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
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BlackFox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 00:38
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Some people need to remember that there are kids that use this forum. Why not take your conversation elsewhere, like MSN.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
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Bugsy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 02:03
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I'm pretty sure we're joking, BlackFox.

pretty sure

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 02:43
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@Bugsy: Aha, just joking, but Bugsy, MSN me real quick, I'd like to have a discussion with you about the animations.

tavinhall@live.com

@Wolf, these models could bring a little more life to TF341.

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Bugsy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 03:59
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sorry man, I tried adding you but it wouldn't let me. this is the main reason I pretty much only use skype now.

isaacpreston

if you want

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KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 06:12
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As BF said; this is a child-friendly site; let's keep it that way. Since at least one of these items was ripped/pirated; I don't want to see ANY of them up for download.

-Keith

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 20:30
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So even the M16 is discounted from the downloads? That is extremely unfair.

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henry ham
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 21:21
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Quote: "So even the M16 is discounted from the downloads? That is extremely unfair."


no its not. some of the media you are showing is pirated so whos to say that the rest isn't as well ?

im sure if you were to come up with proof (eg wireframe shots ,uv layouts etc )that the media is 100% yours or that you have the full permission of the original creator to use there media, then keith may reconsider.

you have been around the forum long enough to know that if your not 100% sure the media you show is legit then dont show it or claim it as your own.

cheers henry

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 21:52
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Didn't think I'd have to pull this out, but here you go, wireframes for each group, clearly labeled. I was hoping this community would be a little bit more trusting... but it seems pirates have got the best of us...

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 22:35
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Quote: "Didn't think I'd have to pull this out, but here you go, wireframes for each group, clearly labeled. I was hoping this community would be a little bit more trusting... but it seems pirates have got the best of us..."


Community yes, mods no.

As for the wire, that's not exactly what henry meant. We need to see an in-editor wire shot of the model along with the complete uv-map. Also would help to see previous saves of the model wip. Anyone who builds complex weapons like this always does multiple saves. If you can show a couple of those that should be good enough to determine if they are yours or not.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:07 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 23:08
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There, stage by stage. Better?

Edit: Yes, I'm aware there are two stage 5's and 6's, but in my defense, I have a horrid headache from being called a pirate all day...

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henry ham
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:22 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 23:30
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Quote: "As for the wire, that's not exactly what henry meant. We need to see an in-editor wire shot of the model along with the complete uv-map. Also would help to see previous saves of the model wip. Anyone who builds complex weapons like this always does multiple saves."


yes something like this would be better







EDIT ah thats a bit better you must have posted before i refreshed my screen

Quote: "I have a horrid headache from being called a pirate all day"


no one is calling you a pirate, but you have already admitted that at least one of the models you have shown is ripped so the mods need to be cautious

cheers henry

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:33
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Yeah, so is the M16A3 cleared for duty? It's one of my more impressive models if I do say so myself? All the other models I could care less about. That's my baby.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:40
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Quote: "Yeah, so is the M16A3 cleared for duty?"

No, sorry. All the parts are triangulated. Would need to see a bit more shots. All your screens are small too so it's hard to tell.

This may sound harsh but we're not trying to be. And no one is calling you a pirate.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 23:49
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Need any more?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 01:18 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 01:41
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You should be aware the the sleeves themselves appear to be partially ripped.

Quick comparison of the UVs provided against known-ripped COD sleeve UVs...



Edit:

Quote: "so is the M16A3 cleared for duty?"


Please know that the opinion of the mods or other forum members is actually irrelevant when it comes to the subject of offering any of the models for people to download.

As stated earlier...

Quote: "Not going to happen as the models appear to be of dubious origins."

Quote: "I have to be rather strict about permitting user-made weapons because my customers need to feel confident that any media associated with me is completely safe for commercial use."


It's absolutely nothing personal. We are simply trying to help you avoid future pitfalls that you might encounter as a result of working with assets supplied by your friends. For your own personal games you can do whatever you like (as far as I care). However, distribution into the community is another story entirely.
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 01:37 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 01:46
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Meh, well, it's time to rig new sleeves? I mean considering, the model isn't the same anymore? Damn it Tucker, you screwed me over all over the place. Okay, time to start anew then. M16 and M1014 are staying, and I'm coming up with a new arm rig.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 01:37 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 01:38
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Double post -_-

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Errant AI
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 01:45
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Cross-post edit. See my previous post.

Yeah, "friends" can give you a lot of head and heartache sometimes. Primary reason why I don't work with other artists.
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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 01:47
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Thanks Errant for saving me from a crapstorm of lawsuits. Well, now I know to stick to my guns, literally. So can I supply the community the guns that I do infact have proof I made on your animations? Or is that a no no?

Also, do me a favor and add me on skype or MSN?

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Bootlicker
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if you use models that you did not make, make sure that you know exactly who made them and get permission from them. I have never released any weapons without the permission of EAI since its his animations, and the permission of the weapon modeller. For example, I had to ask EAI and TGC's permission to release the stock weapons on EAI anims. However, if you wanted to release a weapon from a counter strike skin, you could hypothetically ask for EAI's permission and the creator of the skin (in particular the modeller, uv mapper and texturer). There is a lot of hassle to release anything you didnt 100% create. I have often put more effort in trying to release something than actually creating it.

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SecretiveOps
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 03:29
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Ahhhh, okay, well, the M16 is one hundred percent mine, and the M10 is my friends, and I've already got full permissions. Now to do the finishing touches on my M4 Carbine...

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Chazene
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:45
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not bad

Charlie "Chuckles" "Chazene"
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Zwarte Piet
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 09:13
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If the M10 is your friends have your friend post it. Is all I am saying.

"I would rather make a bad model, instead of pirate a great one" MY DAD "Now let's Make some Models" me "If you don't make it don't post it"
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