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Work in Progress / Evolution

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 02:34
This is a thread that has evolved from the remains of this previus thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=141716&b=7

It is based on mine and Daryn Alsup's attempts to create an evolution sim game with many aspects simular to that of Spore. We have already conquered the planetry terrain in the previus thread, althrough there have been slight updates on my side which I will post later.
I believe that Daryn Alsup has been working on a pretty nifty weather system and I have worked getting the starting pools and forests looking good.
We have both been hitting ourselves over the head to try and get some sort of creature editor that is good enougth for us.

The purpose of this thread is to act as a medium to talk through and for others to contribute or comment if they want. Help is will be appriciated as this is quite a large and awsome project.

Here is one current possibility for the creature creator (download). However, its a little limited and the creatures look pretty awful. We are now working towards a vertex editing approach to hopefully generate better looking creatures with more customization.

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 02:45 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 02:46
Screeny of planet - low detail version when viewing from space as planets are LOD (Load on Demand).


Screeny of starting pool (kind of hard to get a good screenshot of this but it looks quite cool).
JoeOh
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 02:47
Wow, Keeps it up!!

I'd trade it all, for a little more...
Sixty Squares
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 04:14
Wow looks cool . Will the visiting of planets be seamless or will there be a loading screen?

<---Spell casting battle game!
Garion
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 12:39
Wow! Good luck with the project, looks promising.
I hope it will be more realistic than 'silly' spore
Serial Velocity
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 12:45 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 12:47
Looks great. I especially like the planet you have there, how does the LOD work?

I downloaded the creature editor and the inferface looked good but it was very limited. I cant wait until you can add body parts.

Quote: "I hope it will be more realistic than 'silly' spore"

Same here.

Good work so far!

ALL YOUR PLANETS ARE BELONG TO BLOBBY


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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 12:57
Sixty Squares
Currently the whole planet is seamless. This means you can go anywhere on it without ever experiencing a load period. We haven't added other planets yet and so I'm not sure about load screens. Building the planet takes a few seconds (3 or 4) but if we could hide this process and make it a background process as the player flys into orbit then it would be great. We can't really move the planet and so when you enter orbit the world will probably have to change to make the planet the centre. Cross your fingures that this won't require a load screen.

Quote: ""I hope it will be more realistic than 'silly' spore""

Yea spore is far to silly. Mainly because EA wanted to sell it to the same audience that plays the sims. We don't. We we want blood and cooler, less cartoony creatures.

Serial Velocity
That old editor does have body parts. You have to click on your current body (the blob) to add stuff. The more complex it is the more items you will get to add.

As for the LOD planets, I recomend checking out the other thread. Basicly it replaces the meshes with more detailed meshes when the player gets closer and less detailed meshes when the player zooms out. The meshes are generated on the fly using fractal technics to improve the level of detail.
Plotinus
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 13:19
This looks great - both the planet and the starting pool shots are fantastic. Sounds like it's going to be a really interesting project.
Serial Velocity
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 13:31
Quote: "You have to click on your current body (the blob) to add stuff."

Ahhh I see now, I just tried it and I managed to create some bizzare creatures.

Good luck with the project!

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 13:44
I have been working on a new creature editor that works on editing the vertecies of a cylinder like model. Players can enlarge use the vertebra like in spore and can enlarge or shrink bones with the mousewheel and click and drag them into shape. It works very much like the body editing on spore. Download it and give it a go.

As you can probably see there is much work to be done and the editor doesn't like fat body parts much when they are rotated. Does anyone know how I could solve that problem.

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draknir_
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 14:41
Looks really cool, but I have to ask: Why isn't the planet round?

I've always wanted to play an evolution game truly rooted in science (games like simLife were awesome, I wish Spore had been more like that) so I'm really interested in where you take this. Good luck!
C0wbox
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 15:25 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 15:26
@ Lord Einstein
This certainly looks good. I was kinda waiting for someone from TGC community to attempt to remake Spore. xD (I tried myself but gave up when I realised Dark Physics didn't like me.)P

@ draknir_
Quote: "Why isn't the planet round?"

Probably rendered on a widescreen.

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 16:59 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 17:43
ty Cowbox. I recently got a new computer and screen. The screen has some weird resolution that is non-standard. It doesn't really bother me, under a standard resolution the planets appear very round.

We are not remaking spore. Spore was a bit of a disapointment in gameplay. I intend on making my game a lot more RPG based. e.g. when you get to the civ era you still control one creature. Obviusly our game won't be quite a good looking as Spore and it will probably not have as many features. I don't really like Spores cartoony feel though and so I intend on going for something more realistic.

PS Although you can't see it, the seaweed in the starting pool acturly sways with the currents.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 19:04
Looking great so far, I'm impressed at your creature editor already, looking forward to seeing more .


Serial Velocity
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 19:23 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 19:50
Quote: "I recently got a new computer and screen. The screen has some weird resolution that is non-standard. It doesn't really bother me, under a standard resolution the planets appear very round."


To fix this you can set your resolution to the max size of your computer screen and set the aspect ratio with this code:

Set Display Mode:


Function:


AndrewT
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Posted: 19th Apr 2009 06:05
I don't think you need to use GetSystemMetrics() to get the max screen width and height, assuming this is DBP you can just use Desktop Width() and Desktop Height().

Anyways nice job, this is looking very impressive. Keep up the good work.

i like orange
Serial Velocity
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Posted: 20th Apr 2009 20:17 Edited at: 20th Apr 2009 20:17
Quote: "I don't think you need to use GetSystemMetrics() to get the max screen width and height, assuming this is DBP you can just use Desktop Width() and Desktop Height()."


Oops, never noticed those commands .

Anyway back on topic:

Quote: "Anyways nice job, this is looking very impressive. Keep up the good work. "

Agreed!

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 20th Apr 2009 23:44
Ty. Unforchinatly it may be a bit of a long haul to get the creature creator finaly working but the new version 4th post (after google adverts) is looking quite promissing.

Not sure whether your saw that version but could you please tell me whether you preffer the boned version (currently only limited to body editing) or the section editing one posted right at the begining.

Unforchinalty I have exams comming up so this project may move a little slowly over the comming weeks.

If anyone wants to help with any aspects then please just shout out.
Daryn Alsup
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2009 01:02 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2009 16:59
Hi everybody! I thought I would come and talk about the weather... well my weather. No code at the moment... I am on a mac

I was working on an app a while back that actually came to me from a city-sim idea I had when I came across Lord Einstein's City Builder game. It seems Lord and I are destined to cross paths a lot. Anyway... I started working on a weather station app. That allowed the user to view the world and from collecting global weather data... this globe would display simple but dynamic weather for the globe. You could then pick a location and zoom into it and see radar of rain fall, percip. anything really as long as the info. could be retrieved. GOT BORED AND PLAYED SPORE...
I hated it. Too cute... nasty to me... ew-ew get it off. Then the idea came and thus the old thread was born.

WHAT MY WEATHER SIM DOES NOW-
1) It calculates radial and kinetic energy from a sun object and converts it to heat on a planet object's surface on the basis of:
A.)Atmospheric chemical content
B.)Water Percentage *whatever main liquid is chosen/set
b) Cloud percentage (derived from water percentage)
c) Wind Patterns (derived from A and B)
C.) ((TBCompleted)) Terrain type and percent (IOW... reflective or more absorbing)
From this we can tell the computer how to interact with certain things such as:
Aa.) Trees and vegetation which for each planet will create an abundantcy of whatever aero-chemical the mass pop of creatures need.
Ba.) Animals and beings will "leak" fumes necessary to the survival of plants/vegetation from which we'd return to step Aa.

By doing all of these things and computing where and when things change we can then (using vectors on a sphere) display changing patterns of weather. And yes, we even get into particle physics a bit and it can get nasty... trust me.

Here I state to Lord Einstein that he is welcomed to use the code I post in a few hours or a day... and anyone else who wants to use the code... NO... You can when it's perfected! as long as credit is given to whatever Lord Einstein and I RELEASE once it's done.

I'm not being mean... just trust me its a lot for any computer and you may fry yours if you try it... global weather is very cpu heavy and thus it still needs some tweaking. But after that you are free to kill or destroy you computers but don't Blame me or Lord Einstein. Thank you and I hope you'll like the weather. ;P

Now, on to Lord Einstein... I had some thoughts-

Because we're using vertex editing now, there are a few things that we can do to make certain traits in the game seem more, well realistic. For one, we can have and may create a greater need for slow alterations in other NPC creatures' DNA. Subtle alterations in vertex positions, color changes with textures and so on and so fourth.

Also for expanding the game after it is released I personally would turn to LUA script. NOT UNITY. There are versions of this scripting language that can call DBP commands externally for which may come in handy if the code gets too hard to decipher for further upgrages/patches and expansions. Just a thought to look into. If you don't know much look into--- www.LUA.ORG

I am almost peeing myself 'cause I haven't been able to try your creature creator app yet... some one give me virtual PC!!!!

-Daryn

Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pale of water... but Jill got tired of his s#%& so she shot him.
Lord Einstein
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2009 23:59 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2009 00:00
Ok. Slow down Daryn. Lets get the game finished before we start thinking about version 2. Keep those thought in mind tho as they may come in handly at a later date.

I'm not sure about the vertex editing. Although it allows more customization of the body shape, AI's will have to follow prescripted body shapes and may have other limitations. There are other issues which you will have to check out when you get your computer working again. There is also no easy way to distinguish between female and male creatures.

You need to compare the bonned/vertex editing version and the section based one to see which you believe may be best.

- Although the bone one has customizability it may be hard to change that to a slow and steady change and has rendering and AI issues.
- The section one lacks a bit of customizability and the version I posted has quite low quality models. However, the lack of customization may improve animation and help to make evolution into the slow and steady pace we all expected to see from spore. The lack of creativity could be compensated for by many additional features to add to your creature and many variables to change.
TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 15:16
This looks very promising! Good work! Is it just your monitor, or is that first pic of the planet stretched?

Quote: "LOD (Load on Demand)."


Is that what it means? I thought it was "level of detail"...

TheComet

Peachy, and the Chaos of the Gems

Lord Einstein
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 17:42
My monitor is widescreen and the planets are really just spherical.

Quote: "Is that what it means? I thought it was "level of detail"..."


It might be level of detail, not really sure. I though it stood for both as they both do basicly the same thing.
Garion
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 22:35
The bone editor is very cool. One note: when you grab a bone and want to move/rotate it, the bone will be deselected when cursor moves too far (it shouldn't).

The creature editor from the first post looks much more developed, also very cool, with more options it would be possible to create really interesting creatures!

It's gonna be a very interesting project. I love the idea of it being more realistic than cartoony spore.
I liked the music, too!

btw

I think that evolution should happen more like in... TESIV: Oblivion than Spore. The more you use something, the more it develops. The more you run - the better/faster/stronger legs. It seems more reasonable than 'dna points'.
Lord Einstein
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Posted: 24th Apr 2009 00:39
DNA points are a bit easier to use and the more you use an item doesn't make any more sence.

I want to really know which editor you think is best as we can't have both editors. I'm feeling more section based at the moment.
Daryn Alsup
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Posted: 25th Apr 2009 01:04 Edited at: 25th Apr 2009 01:41
Lord Einstein, you can use both in a sort of hybrid type of creature progress. Let me explain.

In spore, you could eat,fight,ally, and so fourth to gain body parts and intellagence. As Garion has stated, in TESIV: Ob., you could use something over and over again and cause it to develop as you evolve.

Say that in "Evolution" you can pick your body parts and unlock body parts by fighting and killing, allying and working along side other creatures... but before you can gain intellegance points, your creatures physical body must also evolve through DNA points. This means that while you hunt or whatever, you body must grow and evolve before your mind can. You can even say the vise-versa for herbavores. For omnivores, both can happen at the same time depending on how and what you eat and how cunning you make your creature. Seems complex in words, but it is something to look into. I don't think that as far as DNA and intellegence goes, we should copy another games design... maybe make a hybrid but something we can call our own. Just a thought don't burn me!!!

As for how it would work in an editor... you are basically limited in what you can select by- weather you've unlocked it/them (the parts) and weather your mind and body is evolved enough to use them. Whatever you select will change and develop based on what I said above until you unlock a new area of parts pertaining to the current evolved-status of the creature. From there you would need to go out with your creature and find new parts to put in this new area you just unlocked in the editor.

I would also suggest a flyover or pop-up when you place your mouse over a locked or unfound item in the body parts section that informs you slightly of what your creature must do to unlock them.

-Daryn

GOT the pc back up... readying the code for posting.

Updates on converting the we-sim program for our new use of it... I am using a strip of code that convertes the surface texture of the planet and reads it colors. from there I can tell it that if the color is 100% blue or near that, it is water and reflects/absorbs X% of sunlight because of it.

Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pale of water... but Jill got tired of his s#%& so she shot him.
Lord Einstein
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Posted: 25th Apr 2009 14:19
I see what you are saying but I was thinking of a different solution. I thought that maybe it might be best if the player chooses one modification per generation e.g. increase arm length. This allows the evolution to be slower and makes it so that the player can't completly redesign their body with every generation. Through this system the next upgrades will depend on what you currently have e.g. you can't add claws untill you have a hand.

Still eagerly awaiting your weather sim.
Daryn Alsup
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Posted: 25th Apr 2009 20:27 Edited at: 25th Apr 2009 21:38
Hey L.E. there are going to be some additinal plugins you'll need to run the Weather Sim's code along side of your's. They can be found here:

The Matrix1Utils plugins collection:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85209&b=18

Possibly the LUA Unity commercial plugin... although I am not using it now... but I may have to if the program/game we make needs as much DBpro space as is possible. (external reading in other words)

I have BlueGui. We may not use it or we may need it... either way I have it. Tell me if you have it or not and I will just use sprites or something.

Also you can find a thread devoted to the W.E.-Sim here:
[center][/center]http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=149615&b=1&p=0

Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pale of water... but Jill got tired of his s#%& so she shot him.
Lord Einstein
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Posted: 17th May 2009 02:27
Heres a nice grass effect which is originaly based off an idea by someone else, but I cannot rember the name. I'm going to try and incorporate this into the engine.

No media required:


I have recently been working on cities. I might just leave the create creator till a little later and use the engine to make a simple action game where you conquer or defend planets against aliens. This can then be expanded with the creature creator and extra phases.
Daryn Alsup
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Posted: 26th May 2009 05:03
Hey Lord, Just wanted to give you a bit of an update. AND I have a nice brand new shiney computer with 16gigs of memory via external memory tray!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!

I've begun to explore shaders for the we-sim. Seems to be a simple way to project a nice effect onto the weather sphere. The shader is more of a hybrid in that it calls information from the land object underneath it... calculates the distance inbetween the earth object to the atmosphere object and creates a nice little effect of light refraction through the atmospheric particles. Next I am going to head towards creating the rain and such... You'll see it SOOON!

Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pale of water... but Jill got tired of his s#%& so she shot him.

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