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Work in Progress / PureGDK 2.0 preview (please and help test!)

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Mistrel
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Posted: 17th Feb 2010 20:58 Edited at: 13th Mar 2010 14:37
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After a very long time in development I'm pleased to announce the upcoming release of PureGDK 2.0.

What's so special about PureGDK 2.0?
All of DBP compressed down into a single DLL
Engine customization; only use the parts of engine you need. For example, an engine which requires basic 3D functionality can compile down to less than 800 KB!
Support for PureBasic, C, C++, with anticipated support for Java, Python, Perl, and FreeBasic.
Language agnostic interface. If your language isn't supported out of the box it's still compatible if your language can use DLLs
Multithreading support
Enhanced commands including true support for structured parameters
Superior error handling
Potential support for rendering in a web browser (will not be in the first release)

The new engine is extremely lightweight and highly customizable. Best of all, it's fully compatible with DBP's plugins.

How can I help test?
I need people to help test a demo on various computer configurations and report back what they used and if they experienced any crashing or lock ups while running it. The only things that are relevant for the test, unless you're experiencing problems, are your operating system, video card, and processor.

For example, I tested it on the following computers:

Windows 7 64-bit Professional (English)
Intel GMA 4500MHD
Intel Core 2 Solo

Windows XP 64-bit (English)
GeForce 9800 GT 1GB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

Here is the file to test:
http://puregdk.com/files/upload/light.zip


I am also looking for experienced users of Java, Python, Perl, and FreeBasic who know how to interface with a DLL to help create bindings for those languages.

This is just a preview. A full beta will be released very soon.

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Blue Steel AU
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 04:38 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 10:27
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Working fine here and fast too (1100 fps+ average with 7 lights active lowest was 600 highest was about 1500 this was with a lot of other software running on my system as well)

win7 x86 ultimate (latest updates)
CPU: intel core dueo 2.6 with 4gb ram
VC: ati radeon eah 3850

also
1. will this .dll be able to be used on VS2010 (unlike the original DarkGDK which doesn't)
2. will it work on the latest PureBasic or is it still for 4.31
3. I'd also liker to see it available for Ebasic (emergance basic)

Feel free to come and talk about it on http://www.codingmonkeys.com you'll be more than welcome

PM me plz as i'd like to add your product (and anyone elses) to my online shop either through regnow or directly off my site

My Web Site: http://www.codingmonkeys.com
My Computer Specs: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=164587&b=2&msg=1947153#m1947153
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UUICEO
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 06:09
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I'm very excited about the upcoming release. I've waited a long time for it.

Keep up the great work!!
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Mistrel
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 06:41 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 06:42
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Quote: "1. will this .dll be able to be used on VS2010 (unlike the original DarkGDK which doesn't)"


I haven't started generating C headers yet but I can confirm that I have a prototype that works fine with Visual Studio 2010.

It should also work with GNU C/C++. I'll be using standard C with a call to LoadLibrary, GetProcAddress, and FreeLibrary. So it should be portable to any C compiler which can interact with the Win32 SDK.

Quote: "2. will it work on the latest PureBasic or is it still for 4.31"


The PureBasic headers should be both backwards and forwards compatible to PureBasic 4.00 - 4.41 and up. Unlike the previous releases it does not rely on static linking of the headers. You're more than welcome to compile then to static libraries if you like.

Quote: "3. I'd also liker to see it available for Ebasic (emergance basic)"


If can help me to understand the syntax I would be more than happy to generate headers for all of your favorite languages.

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jfroco
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 07:43
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Hi Mistrel,

Tested and worked very fast on:

1) Windows Vista Home Premium 32b SP1(Latin American Spanish)
ATI HD 3200
AMD Turion X2 ZM-82 2.20GHz

2) Windows Vista Ultimate 32b SP1 (Latin America Spanish)
ATI HD 4850
Intel Core 2 6600@2.4Ghz

Regarding Python, I have experience calling functions from DLL using ctypes. Let me know if you need information.

Best regards

JF
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aonyn
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 09:22
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Hi Mistrel,

Wow, very nice.
The sample ran beautifully on my system, which is far from cutting edge, averaging 500fps.

Windows XP Pro SP3 32b
GeForce 8600 GT 512MB
Intel P4 3.2GH
3GB Ram

Now I am very excited.
Will there be upgrade pricing for existing users?

Thanks for all your work, and I look forward to this new version.

regards,
Dave
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aonyn
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 09:32
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Hi Mistrel,

After reading your post, I am also a bit curious.

Obviously the new dll approach will be far more flexible, no doubt.

However, will PureGDK 2.0 feel like a familiar friend within the PureBasic environment, or will it be an entirely new beast to tame for an amateur programmer such as myself?

Also, will my existing projects be fairly easy to adapt to the new version?

Either way, I am certainly in for the upgrade, I am just wondering what to expect.

regards,
Dave
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Hassan
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 09:48 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 09:49
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500-560 FPS, 240 with 7 lights:

windows 7 32 bit ultimate
nvidia geforce g103m
intel core 2 duo TC 6400 @ 2GHz

Cool, Multithreading support!!

also, how much does ( or will ) it cost?

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Mistrel
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 11:02 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 11:05
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Quote: "Regarding Python, I have experience calling functions from DLL using ctypes. Let me know if you need information."


Please leave me a message with at (matt)@(puregdk.com) and I'll let you know when I'm reading to start working on Python headers.

I forgot to mention before that all of the DLL exports use the CDECL calling convention.

Quote: "Will there be upgrade pricing for existing users?"


All existing PureGDK users will get a free upgrade. I know there are more than a few people who have been waiting for a PureBasic 4.40 release while I've been working on this.

You're more than welcome to buy a second copy.

Quote: "Will PureGDK 2.0 feel like a familiar friend within the PureBasic environment, or will it be an entirely new beast to tame for an amateur programmer such as myself?"


You will have to include header files instead of having everything "just work" like it was previously. The new header files won't compile outright to a TailBite library but I hope to add that functionality back in at a later date. Compile times will be much faster though.

Quote: "Also, will my existing projects be fairly easy to adapt to the new version?"


Basically, it will be very similar with only a few subtle changes. There are only a couple commands I changed the text of such as OpenDBWnd to dbOpenScreen, dbMakeObjectPlain to dbMakeObjectPlane, etc. I may have tweaked some parameters somewhere as well.

Quote: "how much does ( or will ) it cost?"


I haven't gotten to that point yet. Sorry. There is an upgrade path directly from DarkBasic Professional. That's a $70 discount if you already own DBP.

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aonyn
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 11:33
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Hi Mistrel,

About including these headers, will the include code be provided, or will it be up to the user.

Also you should consider a donation payment option, so upgrade users from the original PureGDK can choose to reward your effort, without buying an entire second license, since you are providing the update for free.

Thanks for you quick reply and answers.
Waiting eagerly for 2.0

Regards,
Dave
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Mistrel
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 11:53 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 11:57
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The current release of PureGDK comes with a file "gdklib builder.exe" which reads in template files and outputs code to be compiled to a TailBite library.

Previously this tool was only used for plugins and all of the core commands were done by hand (which was a source for many bugs). The new release comes with a new library builder which builds sources files for all of the commands. Nothing is written by hand.

For, for example, if I made a typo somewhere you can go into the header and fix it immediately.

Another important change is that the headers now use optional parameters instead of the special formatting required by TailBite. So I'll have to generate special headers just for that. I'd like to see if people really want it first. The headers are easier to work with in case you need to check for a bug in my code.

Each language supported by the library builder outputs code specific for that language. So long as someone can explain the proper syntax I setup the various rules in the library builder and output all of the code automatically.

I would like to be able to support each language as a separate plugin file so people can write that own. But that's not a priority right now.

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aonyn
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 20:52
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Thanks for the explanation Mistrel.

Regards,
Dave
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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 20:53
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Solid 1920 FPS with 7 lights.

Windows XP SP3 (32bit)
4GB RAM
Intel E8500 (Core 2 Duo 3.16 GHz)
NVidia 9800 GT 512MB

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Viceroy
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 23:21
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windows 7 x64 (English)
gtx 280m
i7-920xm

works fine
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MushroomHead
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Posted: 27th Feb 2010 10:50 Edited at: 27th Feb 2010 16:03
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Works fine here (and fast)...

Windows XP
Athlon 64 3800+
Nvidia 6600GT

FPS : 537

By the way when will it be released? Also is it a requirement to have a certain DBPro patch before PureGDK works or should it work with any patch?
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Mistrel
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Posted: 28th Feb 2010 04:56 Edited at: 28th Feb 2010 05:06
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Quote: "By the way when will it be released?"


I hope to get a beta out within the next couple of weeks. I'm working right now on the documentation parser. It automatically parses all of the documentation into the format for the target language (PureBasic, C++, etc) and also generates the index and other references which make navigation much easier.

Unlike some other products, documentation for PureGDK should be a pleasure to use.

The same tools I use will be included in the SDK so you can generate similar documentation for your projects as well. Documentation will be in .chm format and html so you can upload it to your website as well.

Quote: "Also is it a requirement to have a certain DBPro patch before PureGDK works or should it work with any patch?"


PureGDK will have an official target version where it has been tested and is guaranteed to work. It should be compatible with future versions of DBP without modification but compatibility is not guaranteed. For example, a command will break if it disappears from DBP and you try to call it.

The same tools I use for generating PureGDK headers will be provided in the SDK so you can easily add new commands as they come without having to wait for the next release.

You will also be able to use this same SDK for wrapping DBP compatible plugins. These are the exact same tools I use so there's no drawback to using them yourself.

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Mistrel
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2010 12:44 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2010 12:45
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Work has been progressing very well on the new documentation builder. It will allow for seamless documentation generation for all supported languages within seconds. Everything will be cleanly formatted, links will be checked (no dead links!), and changes will propagate automatically throughout the rest of the documentation.

Here is an example of the ideal page with documentation for each parameter of the function:



The template for this page is as follows:

Quote: "@Function Result = dbLoadEffect(Filename.s, EffectID, TextureFlag [, DoNotGenerateExtraData])

@Description
This command will load an FX file.

If <const>PB_Any</const> is used as the @param2 parameter, the new ID will be returned as '@result'. Otherwise the value of '@result' is the same value passed as the @param2 parameter.

<color>@param1</color>
<indent>The FX filename must point to an FX file that is compatible with the DX9 effect framework and would typically use the extension '.fx'.</indent>

<color>@param2</color>
<indent>The FX can be stored and referred to by a number that identifies it. You can use this number to apply an effect to an object previously loaded.</indent>

<color>@param3</color>
<indent>If the Texture Flag is set to zero, the effect will use the textures already mapped to the model, and a value of one will discard the current textures and load the textures specified in the FX file. Typically, effects rely on the specified model and textures in the FX file to function properly.</indent>

<color>@param4</color>
<indent>Set this value to one to avoid generating tangent and binormal data, and set the value to two to additionally strip out any secondary UV data, sometimes needed to allow a complex shader to create a valid declaration.</indent>

@SeeAlso dbDeleteEffect, dbEffectExist, dbSetLimbEffect, dbSetObjectEffect"


Notice the links at the bottom of the page. All topics will include their own individual indices with navigation between pages within the topic.

Most of the documentation does not look like this. This is the "ideal" page and is what the documentation should eventually look like sometime in the future.

All of the documentation tools I use will be provided in the PureGDK SDK so you're welcome to use it in your own projects and even contribute to the official documentation by providing updated entries to the templates.

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MushroomHead
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 12:39 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 12:42
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Documentation looks pretty comprehensive, I like the "See also" section. Correct me if I am wrong, reading the above, it appears PureGDK can be modified to run on other compilers like PowerBasic etc?
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Mistrel
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 13:44 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 13:45
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For now the compiler it will only generate headers for languages I setup rules for by hand.

When I'm ready to start implementing support for other languages I'll let everyone know what I need to generate compatible code and we can work out testing then.

Eventually I want the compiler to generate language specific code from plugins using a documented interface. That way anyone can create a plugin to generate header code even if their language isn't natively supported.

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Mistrel
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Posted: 13th Mar 2010 14:36 Edited at: 13th Mar 2010 14:36
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Please see my post here on the forum if any of you would like to help improve the DBP documentation:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167219&b=1

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Blue Steel AU
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 03:27
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I've just purchaced PureGDK in prelude to its next release
I'm so excited and can hardly wait ..

Is it ready yet???
Is it ready yet???
Is it ready yet???
...
...
...
how about now ???
Is it ready yet???
Is it ready yet???
Is it ready yet???

LOL

My Web Site: http://www.codingmonkeys.com
My Computer Specs: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=164587&b=2&msg=1947153#m1947153
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Mistrel
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 12:56
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It's not ready yet.

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StartCoder
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 21:53
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This is greate,

I am working with DarkGDK.net, but this one is greate. I like it because all the functions are in 1 DLL, and that you can use only what you need ( like 3D).

DarkGDK.net uses 200MB only on Initialization

Greate work, keep it up!
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Docwes
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 00:56
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I'm getting ready to start a project with puregdk should i wait till your next version? How much rework do you think i'll have to do?

Thanks.

Coding is good~ All the time!
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Mistrel
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Posted: 26th Mar 2010 02:59
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Changes will be minimal. There will be several fundamental changes that require a few extra steps after installation and some slight modification to your source code.

All of these changes will appear in the documentation.

There is a slight delay with the release while I shift my priorities around. This isn't a technical issue rather that PureGDK is a part time project and development has to be worked into my existing schedule.

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Mistrel
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 03:30 Edited at: 1st Apr 2010 04:02
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I thought I'd give everyone an update on the status of PureGDK:

I've been spending a lot of time trying to decide how to provide more robust error handling in PureGDK 2.0. Currently, all runtime errors throw an identical assertion which can be caught in PureBasic using OnErrorCall(). While functional, it isn't portable or intuitive and provides no method of handling the error at the point of assertion.

Error handling in PureGDK 2.0 will be greatly improved. Functions that would normally return a void will return a boolean and those that return a value will return an invalid result signaling an error (0, -1, or 1). An error ID is stored internally and can be retrieved by calling dbGetLastError(). Errors are stored uniquely at the thread level to facilitate multithreaded programming.

All runtime errors are separate from normal return values and will be generated for all language headers automatically using the template library builder. This will pave the way to facilitate the future addition of detailed assertions for Java and C++ as well as a seamless transition to true object-oriented interfaces.

Nearly 600 PureGDK commands now support one or more possible error values. A list of all possible errors for each command will be automatically generated using the included documentation builder. Any additional commands or changes made to existing commands will propagate through all supported languages and their accompanying documentation to provide the most accurate and up to date reference available. And with the provided SDK, even changes you make can be reflected as well.

Here is an example of error results now supported by dbAddLimb:

Quote: "
GDKERR_MESHNOTEXIST
GDKERR_MESHIDILLEGAL
GDKERR_MESHTOOLARGE
GDKERR_OBJECTNOTEXISTS
GDKERR_OBJECTIDILLEGAL
GDKERR_LIMBMUSTCHAININSEQUENCE
GDKERR_LIMBNOTEXIST
GDKERR_LIMBIDILLEGAL"


For those of you who don't understand what this means, don't worry. It's a good thing.

Additional improvements are in the works which may not make it in the first release including the depreciation of memblock and checklist commands. Commands which previously accepted a memblock will now work directly with memory you allocate using pointers.

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Olby
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Quote: "Additional improvements are in the works which may not make it in the first release including the depreciation of memblock and checklist commands. Commands which previously accepted a memblock will now work directly with memory you allocate using pointers."


That's wonderful, I'm so happy to hear this. I can't wait till we can play around with PGDK2. Excellent work from what I can see. Cheers Mistrel!

ACER Aspire 5920G: Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP1, DBPro 7.4 + PureGDK
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aonyn
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Hi Mistrel,

I saw that there is a new beta for purebasic already.
Just curious, does this complicate puregdk development for you, or is the new structure completely independent now from the current version of purebasic and/or darkbasic?

regards,
Dave
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Mistrel
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Posted: 6th Apr 2010 05:05 Edited at: 6th Apr 2010 05:06
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The PureBasic headers should be both backwards and forwards compatible to PureBasic 4.00 and up. Unlike the previous releases it does not rely on static linking so it will be virutally immune to changes in the language.

To answer your question specifically: no, this doesn't cause even the slightest blip on the problem radar.

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aonyn
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Thanks Mistrel,

I am looking forward to the new version.
When I saw the new beta of PB, I was a bit concerned the wait will be longer.

So that is very good news.

regards,
Dave
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MushroomHead
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 16:08
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Hi Mistrel, any idea when it will be released?
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Mistrel
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Posted: 24th Apr 2010 00:22 Edited at: 24th Apr 2010 00:31
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It's not as complete as I would like but there is enough working that it should be suitable for beta testing.

I'm now working on the new installer and backend license management system to support a range of license types. Once this is complete I will be releasing the first public beta for everyone to try out.

I'm not a fan of serial keys or licensing but considering the portability of the new engine it is a necessary evil. For example, without a license manager it would be possible for someone to download a trial of PureGDK and then attempt to use those headers with an engine dll from someone else's project that was posted on the internet.

I have made every effort to simplify the process to make it as painless as possible. The licensing system will be similar to the one used by TGC where it downloads a license file so that a persistent internet connection is not required.

For those of you concerned over the recent delay, there have been a number of real-life issues that have prevented progress in development. I know a lot of people are waiting for this release so I'm sorry for that. I can assure everyone that there are no complications pertaining to PureGDK itself that are responsible to this delay.

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Mistrel
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 15:36 Edited at: 25th Apr 2010 15:37
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Previous versions of the PureGDK installer used native gadgets for everything. This turned out to be very difficult to manage for something as simple as an installer.

This new version is being built upon the idea of moving the UI rendering to a web gadget while keeping the actual logic as PureBasic code. It took a lot of tweaking but the results appear to be an amazing success! Generating new "pages" for the setup wizard is amazingly simple using basic html and css.

Excluding the helper functions, the actual logic for this example is only about 100 lines of code. This includes navigating back and fourth and updating the path requester dialog.

I would really appreciate it if any of you wouldn't mind testing this example and reporting any inconsistencies with how it renders on your machine compared to the example images below.

After I get all of the kinks worked out I'll be releasing the source code as part of the PureGDK SDK.

http://puregdk.com/files/upload/setup_test.zip









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Hassan
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Posted: 25th Apr 2010 17:15
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the text is reversed?

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Mistrel
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 00:07
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That's normal. I reversed the text on the second page as an example. Just like the path requester on the first page.

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MushroomHead
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 00:09
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It renders fine here on Win XP.
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aonyn
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 01:39
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Hi Mistrel,

Works fine here on XP SP3.

regards,
Dave
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Hassan
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Posted: 26th Apr 2010 15:26
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well it works fine, windows 7

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Olby
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Worked fine here on Vista. Just one little thing.. I was not able to manually navigate path text gadget using keyboard. I also was not able to click-scroll-select text in the gadget using the mouse. This means when I enter the path manually or when I use the path requester afterward there is no way to select the text. Otherwise everything renders OK.

ACER Aspire 5920G: Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP1, DBPro 7.4 + PureGDK
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Mistrel
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Posted: 7th May 2010 15:48 Edited at: 7th May 2010 15:50
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Just as a progress update, I mentioned before that PureGDK is ready for beta testing. However, I'll provide a little more information on what still needs to happen:

The new website is being rebuilt to support beta accounts.
The database is being redesigned to support to support the new licensing method and to be compatible with the new website.
A new installer is being written to support the new license manager.
The new licensing method has to be integrated into PureGDK.

All of these things rely on one other to get the beta out the door. I'm working as fast as I can to make that happen.

The biggest hurdle is to finish the new website. Once that's complete then everything else should be pretty easy to finish.

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chrisu
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Posted: 10th May 2010 11:55
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Cool!

To speed up those things - as for me - I'm helping you by not bugging you with annoying questions regarding when it's going to be ready.



Cheers!
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MACRO
20
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Joined: 10th Jun 2003
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Posted: 19th May 2010 19:40
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Hey,

Just wondering if there was any new news on the new release.

Not pushing for a date just an idea of how its all going

I really liked PureGDK but didnt get on so well with PureBasic so a c++ compatable tool like the new version promises is exactly what I want

EvilNoodle
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Blue Steel AU
AGK Developer
16
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Location: Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
Posted: 13th Jul 2010 00:51
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another month and STILL waiting eagerly..

My Web Site: http://www.codingmonkeys.com
My Computer Specs: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=164587&b=2&msg=1947153#m1947153
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Docwes
14
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Location: Ohio
Posted: 26th Jul 2010 19:50
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anyword on an update? I know its been a while and im just wondering how things are coming along. I have a project i keep wanting to use purebasic with but dont want to start in a older version if the new ones coming. If you dont think it will be till fall can you let us know so i can just go ahead and use the old version?

Thanks

Coding is good~ All the time!
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Blue Steel AU
AGK Developer
16
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Joined: 22nd Aug 2007
Location: Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
Posted: 2nd Aug 2010 17:18
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I'm begining to smell some vapour .. still waiting (I bought it after I read that i'd be able to get 2.0 .. I paid about 6 months ago..

2 months and no more word from Mistrel.

Please keep us updated as to whats happening... Thanks

My Web Site: http://www.codingmonkeys.com
My Computer Specs: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=164587&b=2&msg=1947153#m1947153
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Mistrel
Retired Moderator
18
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Posted: 5th Aug 2010 02:03 Edited at: 5th Aug 2010 02:06
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I mentioned this previously in this thread but many of the circumstances continued to make budgeting time for PureGDK very difficult.

Quote: "For those of you concerned over the recent delay, there have been a number of real-life issues that have prevented progress in development. I know a lot of people are waiting for this release so I'm sorry for that. I can assure everyone that there are no complications pertaining to PureGDK itself that are responsible to this delay."


I want to reiterate that there are no problems with the DLL form of PureGDK, as can been seen from the demo.

I've taken some time off to recover and will be continuing to work on PureGDK again during this time. I'm trying to get over a really bad burn out so I'm taking this slowly.

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Blue Steel AU
AGK Developer
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Location: Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
Posted: 6th Aug 2010 00:58 Edited at: 6th Aug 2010 01:01
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thanks for responding ..
I was just getting concerned because its been 3 months since your last post about it.
I am eagerly awaiting and more assured now that its not vaporware.. hope things improve for you.

My Web Site: http://www.codingmonkeys.com
My Computer Specs: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=164587&b=2&msg=1947153#m1947153
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