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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] [rant] Dear FPSC developers

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Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:31 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:16
Dear all, indie FPS creator uses.

I really am sick to death of the majority of the developers on this forum, you can say they're almost primitive-like, mentally incapable children who willingly start work on a stupid game, with a stupid story, no lighting and stock media. Then they fill this forum with "OMG GUYS LOOK IM A FPS CREATOR DEVELOPER MY GAME ROCKS IMA GONNA SELL FOR $100! COMING SOON!"

not only are majority of games on this forum never finished!, they're also ridiculously named, and have almost NO original story what so ever.

i my self have been working on a single game for the past 6 months, and have not decided to start 55 bloody projects that I'll never manage to finish.

So what I'm really trying to say is! mod's should delete the crappy, over-hyped, poor written games that fill majority of this forum.

But this isn't to say there never are any good games!
on a positive note alot of this forums respected members produce commercial quality games, with a most often original story line! and decent Mod Edit; lighting.

as to those who being development on a obviously crap game, Just quit, just give up.. nobody really want's to see your prefab room, filled with stock entity's and not a single bloody light.

"but what about the people who're trying to learn, its a good learning curvature" I'm sure most of you are thinking, First of all.. There are several guides, tutorials, help files and videos all over the forum, youtube and the net! to help out the newbies, So maybe you "newbies" should check out some of the more respected games and tutorials before you post your crap.

thank-you for listening,

/end rant

AMD phenom II X2 550 @ 3.1ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia 1GB 9600GT, 3tb of HDD space, Dual monitor setup, Windows 7 Ultimate.

yeah, FPS Creator development charm.
Tombsville
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:35
I hope the mods do away with infantile rantings as well...
Woolfman
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:36 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 16:45
BAHahahaha.

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:36 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 16:43
I guess when I first got FPS Creator, I was exactly as you described - convinced I was going to make an incredible game with no effort. I soon realised this wasn't the case. I did showcase a WIP game on the forums a year or two back, but it wasn't met with particularly good reception/not very popular, so I gave up.

I then focussed on scripting, and became good at that. I'm not a fan of indie game creating tools, there are very few people who are good at everything (level design, modelling, animating, lighting, scripting etc.) which is why a team is often required for almost any game wanting to be considered serious.

I'm good in my field of scripting, and have achieved some great things, but I would never be able to make a game of the same quality as those achievements, and thus I wouldn't feel the game was of the same quality and discontinue it or lose inspiration.

Guess I'm a typical person you outlined in your post.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
mgarand
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:38 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:14
Quote: "mod's should delete the crappy, over-hyped, poor written games"


How do you think 'newbies'become good level designers? practising.... allot! And if you show your work to others, you get comment wich help you.

I mean look at your own games, They are not super too, but i aint coplain.


Quote: "Just quit, just give up.. nobody really want's to see your prefab room, filled with stock entity's and not a single bloody light."


This is rude man, stock entity's are there for beginners to learn game design. People never give up, at the begin with fpsc i was worse, bad designer, but now i made a game wich won a competition (long time ago , and i make my own models.

So basically i think this thread is useless.


for the sake of our forum





Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:39
Quote: "ow do you think 'newbies'become good level designers? practising.... allot! And if you show your work to others, you get comment wich help you.

I mean look at your own games, They are not super too, but i aint coplain.
"


i don't think you completely read what i wrote, buddy.

Quote: ""but what about the people who're trying to learn, its a good learning curvature" I'm sure most of you are thinking, First of all.. There are several guides, tutorials, help files and videos all over the forum, youtube and the net! to help out the newbies, So maybe you "newbies" should check out some of the more respected games and tutorials before you post your crap."


AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:40
Quote: "I mean look at your own games, They are not super too, but i aint coplain."


and i never implied that games shouldn't be critiqued, nor did i ask for your opinion on my game. I was just simply pointing out an obvious fact.

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mgarand
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:41
even then, what someone makes is NO crap, even if you try, you are creative, and you need to support that, stimulate and give some GOOD comment to help them



Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:44 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 16:44
Quote: "even then, what someone makes is NO crap, even if you try, you are creative, and you need to support that, stimulate and give some GOOD comment to help them"


yes but I'm trying to say that using a prefab room and filling it with Nothing but stock media, is in No way expressing any form of creativity.

especially when there is clearly 1000's of freely available media additions.

AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
mgarand
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:45 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 16:46
so what's the difference between some free stuff and stock media, they are all 3d models,

what is creative? : Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.



Creativity is inventing, experimenting, growing, taking risks, breaking rules, making mistakes, and having fun.
PekelaarSFX
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:48 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:04
First of all, (Acronym removed: please read the [b]Forum Rules to see why you were slapped.)[/b]

Second: I think you were just as the persons you decribed when you first came here ...

I figured out for myself, i'm not good in FPSC's level design, so i'm using it to Test and edit my Audio .... no big deal or something, but seriously think before you post ....




Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:52
Quote: "First of all, WTF.

Second: I think you were just as the persons you decribed when you first came here ..."


Yes. I was.
but never at one time did i throw together some crappy game and make a forum post "OMG CHECK OUT MY SHOOTER GAME WWII ZOMBIE SURVIVAL"

but i did experiment within my own machine, until i eventually got good, and that is the point I'm trying to make.

Think before you post is exactlly what im trying to imply.

AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:53 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 16:56
The thing that i hate the most is that almost everyone can think of a clishe story with zombies...even if the story is not clishe it is just idiotic to post a story that does that can't be shown in the game...Let's take an example...I make a game that i call"zombie kill"and say that in that story that a 89 years old women is a part from a secret goverment groop that they sended to kill all the zombies and then you press start and you play the game and you are in a room and shooting zombies...Without any referation to the story...ther is no point of making a story that i will not see and feel in the game...Because if i change the title and call it "Night of the zombies"and change the story and say that it is a 9 years old chldren send from sant claus to kill zombies and again start the game and you are in a room and shooting zombies...Without any referation to the story...Nothing changed it still feels like i played the same game....So what is the point of playing so many games from the W.I.P forum if all of the feel and almost are the same....I just want to say to all of you guys i am not critising your cabability of making games i just want to say plz dont post a W.I.P if you are not willing to make a demo at list....

Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:55
Quote: "The thing that i hate the most is that almost everyone can think of a clishe story with zombies...even if the story is not clishe it is just idiotic to post a story that does that can't be shown in the game...Let's take an example...I make a game that i call"zombie kill"and say that in that story that a 89 years old women is a part from a secret goverment groop that they sended to kill all the zombies and then you press start and you play the game and you are in a room and shooting zombies...Without any referation to the story...ther is no point of making a story that i will not see and feel in the game...Because if i change the title and call it "Night of the zombies"and change the story and say that it is a 9 years old chldren send from sant claus to kill zombies and again start the game and you are in a room and shooting zombies...Without any referation to the story...I just want to say to all of you guys i am not critising your cabability of making games i just want to say plz dont post a W.I.P if you are not willing to make a demo at list...."


Thankyou! Finally somebody understands the point i am trying to make.

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PekelaarSFX
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:56
Quote: "Yes. I was.
but never at one time did i throw together some crappy game and make a forum post "OMG CHECK OUT MY SHOOTER GAME WWII ZOMBIE SURVIVAL"

but i did experiment within my own machine, until i eventually got good, and that is the point I'm trying to make.

Think before you post is exactlly what im trying to imply."


in another way, you are right, but be nicer next time


Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 16:57
Quote: "PekelaarSFX"


Sometimes being nice doesn't cut it.
you gotta tell people how it is


But thankyou

AMD Phenom Quad core 9950BE @ 3.6ghz, 8GB OcZ Ram OC@1600MHZ, 1GB ASUS HD4890 FSB OC.
nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:00
I am developing now Dark Warior-Prince Mahud
it is my third game...And i put allot of effort to show the story through the game with cut scenes and npc talk system...I would like to hear others what they think about the W.I.P problem

Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:00
Quote: "I am developing now Dark Warior-Prince Mahud
it is my third game...And i put allot of effort to show the story through the game with cut scenes and npc talk system...I would like to hear others what they think about the W.I.P problem"


yeah ill check it out,
If its anywhere near as good as rise of war, I'm sure it'll be a classic

AMD phenom II X2 550 @ 3.1ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia 1GB 9600GT, 3tb of HDD space, Dual monitor setup, Windows 7 Ultimate.

yeah, FPS Creator development charm.
PekelaarSFX
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:00
While you are reading this: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170995&b=25&p=0 ^^

Keep it cool


Zay
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:08
I kinda agree with Insane Arts on this one,because well...just take my personal story for example.I got FpsCreator a couple of years ago and I was basically lurking around the forums and learning.Because I knew that my games at the time couldn't compare to the standard of the forum I didn't post wip threads about my games,but instead practiced more.And when I finally thought that my game is good enough I posted my first Wip thread a year ago.
So I agree with IA,in a more non aggressive way,I do agree that,people shouldn't just post there crappy wip games on this forums.
And most of the time they don't even post a screen or even a story!
They just say they need a free model.
(example: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170758&b=25)
And I personally think that Naruto 4 evr could atlest learn the forum rules in a year!
KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:08 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:09
Though the thought is well-received; I believe the "tone" of the initial post could use some work. I'll leave this open for now; but remember, this program is also to be used by people that just want to have fun with it...not necessarily to make an actual high-quality game.

I'll also add that the new WIP requirements/guidelines have changed as well; read the new Master Sticky to view them. They will be implemented in the coming weeks.

Some member comments have been edited by myself, with a helpful link.

-Keith
Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:12
Quote: "KeithC"


Thanks Keith, next time I'll make sure i don't come across so aggressively.

i appreciate you leaving this up as it will be a good kick in the bum for some of the forum members

AMD phenom II X2 550 @ 3.1ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia 1GB 9600GT, 3tb of HDD space, Dual monitor setup, Windows 7 Ultimate.

yeah, FPS Creator development charm.
Insane Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:14
Quote: "Zay"
thanks for that link, and lmao @ the post.

Quote: "i want him to have a cape because capes look sexy on robots, but you still have to kill him"


haha i think that's hilarious



AMD phenom II X2 550 @ 3.1ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia 1GB 9600GT, 3tb of HDD space, Dual monitor setup, Windows 7 Ultimate.

yeah, FPS Creator development charm.
Nickydude
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:19 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:21
Insane Arts, you have been put on 3 day post mod, not for your rant but because of the swearing rules, even with stars. http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170978&b=21&msg=2025585#m2025585

Also remeber to keep this within reason, if it ends as a flame war or bickering then it will be locked and action taken.



DennisW
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:22
I have only one thing to say. All the pepole that had there wallet out to spend money on there "wip" game just came to a end. There goes sales for this month and it took only one guy to do it.

Eggs and Ham Breakfast
The Chicken was involved the Pig was Committed
nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:23
Quote: "this program is also to be used by people that just want to have fun with it...not necessarily to make an actual high-quality game."

I agree but If someone want to have fun with something he made the fun should be between his computer and himself...I dont want to be rude i just dont want the forum to have a gazzilion (omg i made an awsome GAME)games that are i have seen gazilion times before...Just think about it...We all started as noobes..But some of us are making games that will push Fpsc higher because we wanted to make something new and good Would you imagine how low would fpsc be if everybody here would use the same stock entitys the same storylines and usedthe same (omg i made an awsome GAME sory i changed my mind)habit then the forum would suck....

nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:27
Hey Nickydude am i on truble??i say this because every time i visit the forum i have to prees login even thown i press never log me out and saved the password and username?

Red Eye
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:31 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 17:36
Big Lol for you my friend.

People have ambitions, and noobs have it too, but a overdosis, nothing to worry about. Let them do what they want.
After a while they will see how hard it is and what an adventure it is to make a good looking game.
Anyway, let them talk, and just help them, because they all start with: [or worse]

Quote: "Hey guys this is my first FPSC game, So far theirs been a few days work on it, And i should be releasing a demo by the end of the month! This game will be free on release and has alot of features.

-Iron sights
-Over 30 different weapons
-over 20 Levels
-Dodgy voice acting
-Multiple choice scripts
-AI (Allies)"


As you see most of things are just mod features. And nothing made by themself. (That is something to worry about tho. )

Sometimes i feel the same, "WOW he is a big noob!", but then afterwards i think, welll>> i was too when i started, and pros helped me out, so now I help people that are in trouble as good as i can, when i can.

Nothing to worry about,

Noobie thread.

Sorry.

EDIT: I read your post again, to check if i misread it after i posted, but unfortunately i didnt, altough just something you should know, from now you will be remmeber no as Insane Arts the helpfull member or something like that, but as a well... something u already said before.



KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:38
Like I said; check out the new requirements for posting a WIP Thread. They are for immediate consumption; but there will be a grace period, as far as enforcement.

-Keith
The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 18:02
Well I have recently been anoyed about this too, I am not saying that I do not wish for noobs(considring myself one since i have never posted a project before...)to dissepear. But I did wish we had a thread or something where we could see a list of the decent games that was recently created or old. Instead of searching through the forum.

-Massap2

We are the magnificent Masters, builders of pyramids.
bobochobo
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 18:52
While 'noob' games are annoying and waste forum space, you cannot dictate to newer members on how they should make their games. If they want to make simple games lacking a deep story, thats the way they want to do it. Fpsc does not say that it is designed to make highy thought-out custom games, therefore 'noobs' are well within their right to create basic games.

Ocho Geek
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 19:46 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 19:47
Quote: "not only are majority of games on this forum never finished!, they're also ridiculously named, and have almost NO original story what so ever.

i my self have been working on a single game for the past 6 months, and have not decided to start 55 bloody projects that I'll never manage to finish."


I agree, Although I disagree with the way your attacking the newbies. You should come up with a reasonable alternative if your about to rant about the current situtation

personally, I worked on my project for 2 years straight, before scrapping it and moving to modding a commercial engine (cryengine)

EDIT: thats my rant, but I imagaine that type of rant will get me perma-banned

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My Tastebuds it please; oh yes, i love cheese.
PW Productions
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 19:52
Ugh...

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..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}...........
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............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”...............
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.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``.......
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\...............
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\..............

Nickydude
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 20:48
Quote: "Hey Nickydude am i on truble??i say this because every time i visit the forum i have to prees login even thown i press never log me out and saved the password and username?"


Not that I'm aware of. Possibly something to do with your browsers cookies.

WWIV Studios
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 20:53
Well, that just killed A Lonely Night....

Shadow Blade
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:03 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 21:07
Game creating is a learning process is it not? As is presenting your games, while I do agree the standard of the WIP is not high and action should be taken as Keith has done. But people need to get feedback and learn more, this doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Quote: "as to those who being development on a obviously crap game, Just quit, just give up.. nobody really want's to see your prefab room, filled with stock entity's and not a single bloody light."


This is a ridiculous, your saying if your not good at making a game, you should give up? New developers will never grow unless they can learn what they're doing wrong or right.

Quote: "mentally incapable children"


So not only are you slagging off their work, your slagging off them as well. Lots of people tend to be a bit "nooby" when they first start, they get excited about the ease to make a game and just want to show everyone else. However many have been advised and have grown to be better developers and mature forum users.

Have some respect for people just starting out.
nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:06 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 21:08
The strange thing is that RISE OF WAR was the 2cond game i ever made and it was after 4 of using Fpsc...I was searching and learning for 4 months and then i released my first big game9the first 3rd perso ngame in the forum) but the development was cut not by me being bored with it but because i had a very busy schedjule and had many problems with my pc....And after that i made Blue faction...blue faction was only to test and develop 3rd person perspective...And now i am developing Dark Warior-Prince Mahud witch is also in erd person perpective...I spended 2 months after starting RISE OF WAR only in the developing of 3rd person view...This is my story

Plystire
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:10 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 21:13
Quote: "I was just simply pointing out an obvious fact."


It should go without saying that something that's an "obvious fact" needn't be iterated on the board since everyone should already know it.

Quote: "Think before you post is exactlly what im trying to imply."


I'm glad you feel that way, because I felt the same way towards this thread. Did you even really think before you made it?


I don't know about you, but what I hate to see on this board are rant posts like this one that serve little purpose to the community. You're PO'd, we get it, but don't make a thread about it. Your accusations are not constructive, help very little, and are a blatant disregard to your fellow community members.

You're taking this way out of proportion. These boards were not created for the sole purpose of showcasing commercial quality games only. If you want a strictly professional environment where nobody makes a WIP thread without at least a year's worth of work, go elsewhere, because the developers here are having fun. You know? Isn't that such a great concept? Having fun making games? If the newbs are having fun making their "poor quality" games, leave them be, that's perfectly fine and you're in no position to say anything against that. If their threads follow guidelines, you cannot expect anything more out of them.

If the WIP boards had a standard for quality set for games to meet or beat before being accepted, then there would be far and few threads in there and it would be a lonely place where very few people gather.


Quote: "Sometimes being nice doesn't cut it."


Being stern and being mean are two completely different things. You can get a message across (without confrontation) by being stern with your constructive crits, but being mean is just as you have displayed here. Saying "it's crap" doesn't cut it, nor is it ever needed. You can supply constructive criticism without resorting to such words. I am vastly disappointed to see such words used against a fellow developer, newbie or otherwise. Resorting to them only tells me that you lack proper vocabulary to portray your own thoughts.


The one and only,


nikas
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:25
dear Plystire

You are on of the most important members in the forum you where here long before i joined so i believe that you know better than me or Insane Arts about the meaning of all this...I just wanted to say that even thow i adtim and so should Insane Arts about being mean with low game creators i did it because i was seriously bored with those types of creators...And we all should admit that it has happend to us all to login go to W.I.P and see (omg awsome game)click it and say This?this?this is the awesome game?a door a zombie and a gun?He must know that his game sucks....Look at mi first game....And plz dont laugh

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=150399&b=25

Plystire
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:33
Unfortunately the game's content does not determine whether they may post about it in the WIP board. You may be aggravated about seeing them all of the time, but you are by no means required to stay in the thread and reply to them. Hit the Back button and be on your way. It's worked wonders for me to this day.


The one and only,


Red Eye
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:36
Agreed with Plystire.

Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:38
I think the reason for low standard of WIP post is an age thing. I think that most of the forum post you have described are post from younger members who may not have learned how to present a post in a decent way.

I agree with the ideas put forward and im glad to see actions are being taken but I think if you look at the age of the people posting it is easier to understand why. With this in mind we should make it our job to teach them to post in a good way, not just rant about it. (Don't take that the wrong way OP, I don't mean you specifically I mean everybody)

Thats just my two cents anyway....

Chad301
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 21:54
WIP forum = 2467 threads (currently)

Showcase = 60

Don't bash zombie games lol the zombie models and gore pack are probly the best character packs TGC has at the moment. Nobody wants to make orcs and elves, or D&D, or Roman type games. The AI that comes with the zombies and gore pack is great too. I think this is my 2nd or 3rd month with FPSC and DARKbasic pro and I am like () that close to making a WIP thread.
sadsack
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 22:01
hey Woolfman nice print
renny

Life is not fair, so deal with it.
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uman
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 22:29 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2010 22:30
If anyone wants to know who locked this I did.

Subject and is inappropriate.

No place here for this kind of approach to other users.

Everyone has a different level of expectation and skill set in their game making endeavours and without the silent majority of purchasers/users leave alone those majority of members who are not so skilled or experienced as others might be here, FPSC would not exist.

The forums are for everyone at any skill level, but not for and in preference to people who have no tolerance of others.

If and when it becomes necessary to introduce some kind of exam or test before a person can make a post about their game in the WIP board we will let you know.




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Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 01:27
I know it infuriates people when mods post in locked threads as they feel they have no comeback, but I'm going to post anyway, and if anyone would like to continue the discussion feel free to email me (note I said discussion, if you want to email me abuse, don't expect a reply).

Quote: "If and when it becomes necessary to introduce some kind of exam or test before a person can make a post about their game in the WIP board we will let you know."


I agree. I personally don't like (or agree with) the new rules for posting a WIP. Who are any of us, as users, to decide who can and can't post a WIP, just because it isn't the best game ever made. So what if someone is not pushing FPSC to its limits, so what if there game is just some prefabs slapped together with zombies.

I thought we are supposed to be part of a community who supports each other. We're supposed to help new users, not be upset because they can't do everything as well as you, and are excited about their game.

I have to say I'm very disappointed with the attitude of some in this thread

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
KeithC
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 04:05 Edited at: 4th Jun 2010 04:16
Quote: "I personally don't like (or agree with) the new rules for posting a WIP."

Since you haven't given me any input on it; would you like to tell me what it is exactly that you don't like about the new guidelines?

There needs to be some order in the WIP Board, as a good portion of threads these days are nothing more than 2 lines with an image (if you're lucky). I tried not to come down to hard with the requirements; but you've got to start somewhere.

Here's a few examples:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170759&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170758&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170889&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170322&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=169835&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170870&b=25

The links above show users/developers who may be having fun (which is excellent), but can't really call what they've shown as a "work in progress". It's one of the main reasons I pushed so hard for the separate Showcase section; so that people with actual projects didn't get pushed off the first page with threads like the above.

I'll say it again; we all started out new to this, and everyone deserves encouragement in their endeavors. No one should be belittled or looked down upon because of their skill level. But should those that actually take the time to put together a decent WIP thread have their work constantly shoved to the bottom because of numerous threads that don't really contain what is commonly taken as a work in progress?

Again; this thread's author had a good point, but he failed to deliver it without sounding condescending and arrogant...which is unfortunate.

The bottom line is, we should all be helping each other out; whether it's constructive (but honest) criticism on a project, or some friendly advice that tells someone they're not quite ready to show off their work yet.

-Keith

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