Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / FPS Tutorial - The right way?

Author
Message
Somarl
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posted: 12th Dec 2013 20:18
Bare with me guys this is a long one. I have an idea that i want to explore and possibly expand upon in regards to making a tutorial. I can not program past the utterly basic level. I have no prior experience so do not have pre-used methods from experience in other programs to create the effect i am looking for.

I have seen the same threads over and over in regards to "where do i get started" and the answers are the same; the very helpful newbie tutorials that run through most of the basic concepts. These are very good and definitely the place to start (i did) but where to go from there. The answer (at least to me) is not as simple as "just make something and pick up on any mistakes you make along the way". I just cant start a project. I have no middle ground that can take me from pong to a simple fps (or any other game but ill get to that later).

Every tutorial i have come across with interesting start to finish concepts has been incomplete. The most complete fps tutorial i came across ended way before even enemy ai was introduced. Things like pathfinding and positioning. These may seem like simple concepts to you but i cant work it out on my own.

This particular problem stems with people not finishing a tutorial before it gets interesting. They can not be blamed for this as its ten times more than what i have ever contributed to the forum and i thank them for doing it but it doesn't help folk like me. We need that extra push. I cant put a gun to someones head to make them finish a tutorial nor can i ask someone to write one for me, no one owes me that, or anyone that for that matter.

If there were a different approach to writing a tutorial though things might be different.

What if a tutorial was written by someone following a set of guidelines regarding questions they wanted to know. Questions they had to ask. And asking each one of those questions one by one on the forums, slowly building a profile of a game (in this case an fps but if successful, different game models such as RTS). This way the burden is not on one person to answer every question, to finish the tutorial from start to finish. The whole community could chip in, in the same manner as they would just on a general topic. Different ideas could be discussed, we would pick a method, use it in our game and move on to the next segment.

Below is the proposed material to be asked.



Now you start off with say the first few questions in one topic but some may require just their own topic as they would be a difficult and complex question to answer. I would love feedback before attempting this. If i have missed anything out also please let me know.
Sasuke
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2005
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posted: 12th Dec 2013 22:34
The main issue with this is you can't simply start off simple for it to be come complex you need to build the core engine based off complex ideas or you'll end up half way through with a hardcoded mess before switching to a more OOP friendly structure.

"Get in the Van!" - Van B
Kevin Picone
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 13th Dec 2013 02:46
While it'd be nice if such materials existed. But... the trouble with writing the ultimate tutorial such as a 'from noob fps master in 30 days' is the scope of the task is simply massive.

For example, many of the bullet points in the list above would be entire chapters. Pretty droll stuff for newbies since we're potentially talking about a document that 100's pages to comprehensively address every facet of the subject matter. From concept to implementation.

Unfortunately I don't feel that's realistic expectation, but what might be doable is narrowing the scope and split the big objectives into bite size parts. These parts could heavily use existing reference materials (posts, source codes, tools, media etc ) that not only already exist on the boards but outside of these walls also.

Somarl
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posted: 13th Dec 2013 09:11
Thats for the feedback guys. I agree totally that it is an arduous task. To counter the 'simple to complex' matter that is why the whole plan is laid out initially. So people know where it is going to end up.
Also this isnt really noob to master in 30 days as i dont believe such knowledge can be acquired so quickly. Breaking down this project into smaller parts is why its in so many different chapters, i was thinking the whole thing might take a year or two. Each chapter or section of a chapter being an entire forum post, but if it needs breaking down further, what bits would you suggest (and how).
Somarl
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 11:30
Sorry to re-bump this, but is this all the feedback i can get on this subject. I really would like as much as i can get as i understand the task may be difficult but there must be a way to do this as i believe it could be a decent way to go from basics to intermediate.
SamKM
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th May 2009
Location:
Posted: 22nd Dec 2013 21:56 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2013 21:56
I'm sorry, you were probably hoping this wasn't going to be said, but 'Hands on DBPro Volume 2' is an amazing book for getting the hang of the harder stuff! It takes you from simple 3d stuff through to more complicated techniques. It costs of course, but if you have the money to spare it's definitely where I'd recommend looking
Somarl
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posted: 24th Dec 2013 12:46
Yeah thats the problem, i already have it. It still doesnt really help to put everything together to actually make something worth playing, at least not for me. It is a good book mind, so is the first one and some of the tutorials on here are just fantastic but nothing i have encountered so far in the last 2 years has taken me from beginner to intermediate.

So thats why i came up with this idea for a project based learning experience in the form of a tutorial, something needs doing to start the game so a question is asked on how to do it and then the community discusses how, then the next stage is discussed and eventually a simplified version of a game (the fps) is built with plenty of knowledge along the way with plenty of "whys" answered instead of just "this is what you do next, and its done like this".

I was hoping it would work but im not getting great feedback so far so i think maybe its much more complicated than that.
This is a shame because this programming language is meant for complete beginners but i suspect the only people building games worth playing are people who come from a different language background and somehow learned the programming mechanics on how to put everything together some other way, or trial and error but i am not that kind of guy until i can get my feet off the ground really. I dont yet understand enough to do this and still need some concepts.

Having said this i may still drop this into the newcomers forum and see what help i can get, i.e see how far i can get. It doesnt have to be completely finished and go all the way, i may learn something that just makes it all click and that itself will be worth it.

Thank you all for your feedback and information so far.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-04-19 17:42:17
Your offset time is: 2024-04-19 17:42:17