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3 Dimensional Chat / [Rant Alert] Model Requests

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adr
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Posted: 31st Mar 2005 21:58 Edited at: 31st Mar 2005 21:59
I'm not usually egotistical enough to request that a post be stickied, but I'd really like to see something in this forum, glossing over the points I'm about to make.

This particular board is quickly turning into the overflow area for 'Team Requests'. I imagine 90% of people on this forum have problems with modelling, and the less patient patrons seem to be coming here.

I'm hoping rather naively that newbies will read this post and think twice about their approach, or even their project's requirements. I'm not a modeller my any stretch of the animation. But here, in this post, I'm sympathising with those who might have given you a grumpy reply in the past....

1. Credits. They don't mean sqaut. Being credited in a game might mean something if your game ships 3.5 million copies, but something tells me (grammar, spelling, your general programming experience and ... let's be honest, your choice of language* ) that it's unlikely. In summary, "credits" imply that the modeller will gain noteriety through the popularity of your game. Therefore, if you're game is a pile of crap, the modeller has wasted their time and gained nothing... except for a new friend on MSN.

2. Free. You are asking someone to spend 2 or 3 weeks working on something for very little in return (see above). I'm not sure on the specifics of the time scale, but keep in mind that plenty of people here have day jobs. You know, working for a living?

3. Speed. You're assuming it's easy. No really, you are. By the fact you say "I want a bloke, animated and textured" you're trivialising the process - I'll switch it up for a little example here. I want a full accounting system for a finance customer which integrates into Excel. C'mon, I've told you what I want so I'm going to post 3 times a day asking where it is. If you are able to provide concept drawings, or even better, reference pics, I'm sure people would be more willing. Grabbing a screenie from an existing game and saying "do it like this" will just annoy people.




I have tried for quite some time to learn how to model and texture. I've been using wings, ultimate unwrap and PSP as a collection for modelling for 12 months now. And I still can't do it. And animating is my arch nemesis. I just can't do it (rigging specifically).

For me personally, I would use freebie models (3dcafe) without textures or animations just as place holders until you're 2/3rds through your game. At which point I'd start considering the snazzy graphics.


Sorry about this. Mods - if you feel this post has no merit, delete it or lock it.... I just wanted to voice my thoughts.

* I'm annoyed I have to do this, but note, I said "unlikely". Every time someone makes a comment implying that DBP isn't up to scratch with the big boys, people ram the same 3 or 4 games down your throat. Now with the addition of Firewall.

book is death - wife is stupid
Mr Underhill
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 00:16
Amen, brotha' !

My name is Underhill...commit it to memory.
"Vee vill drive zhem from zee peer-to-peer sites, vee vill beat zhem vith a stick!" ~Leo Laporte, mocking the RIAA
Manic
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2005 01:44
Hi, i really don't post here very often (well, almost not at all), i live on LLRGT normally, but i just saw this topic, and feel i should underline adr's points, particularly number 3

For those who don't know, i'm a modeller, by no means a brilliant one, but still, i aint that bad either. i just want to take you through the process of making a model, and how much work it is;

Modelling: the geometry bit - estimated time (with head, hands, accessories etc) about a week.

Modelling takes ages, absolutely ages. now, i've had quite a bit of practice, and i can build a basic body in a few hours, but it will be lacking hands and a head. Ontop of this, I'll then have to spend another day tweaking it, making sure that all my verts are in exactly the right place, the edges face the right way, there's no smoothing problems etc, etc. Head's are a pain in the neck, as people check them so much. hands are very complex things too, and its surprising how many people when they model or draw one have no idea what they look like. Of course, modellers have a work around for this (they'll make a libary of hands, and sometimes heads), but it's still A LOT of work.

Unwrapping - about 2-3 hrs (if all goes well)

ok... so once you've got all the geometry done (which rarely happens, all modeller's like to tweak right up until the model's final release) then you need to unwrap it... this has GOT to be one of the most awkward skills to learn, its very hard to find a good tutorial on it for a start, but you'll also need to think about how you're going to map the unwrapped shapes onto a bitmap.

Texturing - about 3-4 days to a week to make it good (depending on complexity)

People assume that all modellers are good at making textures, they're not. personally, i've got a graphics tablet, and i could draw before i got into modelling. In the industry, you will generally have a modeller and a texture artist working together, as both jobs are very time consuming.

Rigging and animating - a Week+

This has got to be the hardest part, it's just insane, you think all is well, but then you find for some reason when you bend your character's arm, his fingers get longer for no good reason. Trying to set up IK limits correctly, setting vertex weights, defining effect zones, attaching solid objects correctly, it all takes time, and it can all go wrong at any moment... and that's when you have to start from scratch, because your model is completly wrecked


so.... about 3 weeks work... for what? my name on the credits of your game that'll never be finished?


oh joy

Manic

I don't have a sig, live with it.
Van B
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2005 02:57
Agreed.

Talent wise, modelling, animating, texturing and coding are at opposite poles - anyone who can do all of the above is able to do it because they've worked damn hard at learning it. We have far more talented coders here than anything else, so the best modellers can pick and choose what they get involved in.

If you can't make your ideas stand out and proove a trustworthy team-mate, then there's really no point in even asking. It's not a catch 22 situation because games like mono and duo are glaring examples of how cool a well programmed game can look great without needing a team of modellers and texture artists. There's plenty tutorials and cheap/free software that can get the job done, I personally like the simplicity of Lithunwrap and CharacterFX for texturing and animating - I'm much more of a coder, so it takes me ages to make even passable media, but I'm a hella glad that I did'nt bottle it when trying to learn because the world is now my lobster, so to speak.

Hopefully FPSC will bring in a lot of modellers here that can provide nice media that could be used in a game - it's worth stating that a modeller who does'nt have any experience in game modelling or low poly modelling could be worse for your project than no modeller at all.

A lot of talented modellers prefer the mod communities because they're usually guaranteed to see their work go to use, I don't doubt that a lot of them would rather be making their own games or at least getting away from all those FPS games. I'm not suggesting anyone go sign up to a mod forum and start poaching talent, but it would'nt hurt to look for someone with the right style - approaching 1 modeller at a time is gonna have a better effect than scouting for talent.


Van-B

Quote: "How could I condescend you?, you don't even know what it means!"

Ban-V's mom.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 5th Apr 2005 07:43
I'm fed up with the newbie krap "I'll mention your name in the credits".

WOW REALLY???

As JoshK once said

"I'll wash your car as long as you'll tell everyone what a good job I did"

Cmon people.

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
White Mail Revived
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 05:08
I understand that it takes sooooooooo much time to model as I myself have tried to do so and that people don't have time to do so allways, but could you then tell us lost wandering "newbies" where/how to get the materials to create we desire? I will ask no more of the hardworking modelers residing here if you could just point people in the right direction, an extension of this post to tell the "newbies" on this forum where to go if you are unable to supply help would be awesome, because so far, all that is said is that the work is hard and you won't just do it for whoever ask. I hope I can say on behalf of the "newbies" that we are sorry for trespassing on your time and life. No hard feelings.

1% done... [href]www.x-streamsystems.tk[/href]
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 06:54
Quote: "1. Credits. They don't mean sqaut. Being credited in a game might mean something if your game ships 3.5 million copies, but something tells me (grammar, spelling, your general programming experience and ... let's be honest, your choice of language* ) that it's unlikely. In summary, "credits" imply that the modeller will gain noteriety through the popularity of your game. Therefore, if you're game is a pile of crap, the modeller has wasted their time and gained nothing... except for a new friend on MSN."


So the poor are out on our arse when it comes to collecting models
Gen
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 12:26 Edited at: 13th Apr 2005 12:28
Quote: ""I'll wash your car as long as you'll tell everyone what a good job I did""


LOL, that so very funny but at the same time one of the most true things I have read in some while.

Quote: "So the poor are out on our arse when it comes to collecting models"


On that, my opinion, have some kind of concept art or a picture... something other than words. Then in a nice semi-well formed post try asking someone if they would be nice enough to make it for you. It a lot easier for a modeler to see something along what you a looking for then trying to take your words and assume what you are looking for and try to think up out out the top his head to make it.

Soon to come... Dark IDE, New IDE for DarkBASIC Pro!
adr
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 21:24
Quote: "So the poor are out on our arse when it comes to collecting models"


Why does everyone think game development is a cheap hobby?

Me? With my reputation?
Van B
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 21:32
The poor have to learn themselves basically, thems the breaks when you need someone to spend a week or more on something. Promising projects always get modellers on-side in the end, but that does take a lot of effort from the guy in charge of the project to get demos and concept art 'advertised' properly for that to happen.


Van-B

Quote: "How could I condescend you?, you don't even know what it means!"

Van-B's mom.
JimB
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 22:21
"The poor have to learn themselves basically, thems the breaks when you need someone to spend a week or more on something. Promising projects always get modellers on-side in the end, but that does take a lot of effort from the guy in charge of the project to get demos and concept art 'advertised' properly for that to happen."

Quite right Van B,the other alternatives are :-

1 Pay someone to model/texture/animate for you
2 Buy models from various web sites
3 Rely on the generosity of those who can model
4 Join a team with people that can model etc.

I understand that programers want to do just that,but spending an
hour or so per day learning a modeling package and following a few
tutorials would be of great benefit.
zircher
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Posted: 14th Apr 2005 02:45
5. Spend the time and educate yourself. Do research into modelling software. Surf the web for modelling tutorials. Read the frigging help files.

There is so much that people can do for themselves if they're willing to make the effort. I have lost count of the number of times that people ask a question that I was able to solve by spending just a couple minutes with Google.

Perhaps we need to add a new sticky post and list content sites like we do for modelling tools.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Spaceman Spiff
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Posted: 14th Apr 2005 09:36
Quote: "I understand that programers want to do just that,but spending an hour or so per day learning a modeling package and following a few tutorials would be of great benefit. "


Yeah it is, but it takes AGES! And I now know more about making small squarish looking pistols in Wings3D than I do about programming in DBPro.

I know how you guys feel, but I think most of us noobs have never realised how much work the whole process takes. I've been trying to learn to code and model(and texture and animate) at the same time which has resulted in not being able to do any of them well. I'm getting better, but it takes a long time and gets discouraging(SP?) rather quickley. So I can't blame people for wanting everything fast and free. Because the other method takes time and work and lots of dedication. And not many people want to give all of that to a hobby. But you can always try to make it more worth while than just a hobby. I get extra incitive(I know thats wrong...) because I patched things up with my school so that I can get High School credits for it!

BTW cood som1 mybe mak me a bunc of halo model? like the hole set of vehecleas. and taxtir and anemit them al so that a maren wil clim in and out of them? JK. Sorry couldn't resist making one of those.)

Cheers all.

Smile, it confuses people.
Supremacy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2005 10:38
anyone in less then 3 months can become a rather good modeler, even organic, u just need to believe in yourself, someone once told me that davince once said "a good job is 1% talent and 99% hard work, in my experience i first made contact with a modelling programm before even knowing darkbasic, but i quit after a month or something, i was really bad, but still the ideia kept in my mind, soon after i was watching closely all movies, magazines, games, etc, on geometry flow, forms, shapes, lightninng etc...., after a year and something i got back to 3d, scouted for a lot of tuts, lost some time on it etc, got a little better, i considered myself good at that time, (i oculd do some pretty cool low poly ships), but in reality i was a total crap at it, then 3 months ago i decided, my third attempt would be the last one, but this time i would get it right, and i did, i still have a lot to learn, but i sometimes get very suprised with the results i get, and that inst being selfabsorbed or boasting, nop, its evolution, if you take the time and dedicate to it in the right way, im sure u can be good enough at modelling to make a human look like a human, and a car look like a car, not the otherway( cars looking liek humans and humans looking like cars).

there are so many good sites with forums help and loads of tuts and free models: 3dkingdom, the3dstudio, 3dtotal, cgtalk, etc etc etc.

another good advice, start storing other peoples work u like, model renders, textures, drawings (conceptart.org), screen shots froms movies, games, anything, even do some skecthes yourself, (even if tehy suck like mines do ),

do google searches, this is very good, go to google, clikc image search, and start searching for stuff like, helmets, hands, cammo vests, m14, takns, sci fi ships, whatever, look at how the edges flow, imagine those pics in wireframe, get them inside your head.

another good tecknick i used to start learning and i still use it, and this is really the secret for my sucess in evolution

(im not saying im good, im saying my friends compare my work from 3 months ago and the work i do know and there is a very noticeble difference)

is.... do a model a day !, doesnt matter if u finish it, just start something new each tiem u get at home, spend 4 hours on it, no more no less, and in the end, get some screengrabs and toss the models away, shift del, do this a lot off times and u will start to select tecknicks, shortcuts, etc, in no time youll be finishing models in 4 hours, and they will keep getting better, my english is really bad, but i think you got what i meant,

model model model, use this last stated tecknick, get emul, get some 3dsmax video tuturials, (this is not illegal, theyre free), watch some tuts, when u see a cool move form the autor, (ex: a shape that suddently come out of nowhere), rewind and watch it again, watch a lot of different modellers working, get theyere best tecknicks and make your own stile, in no time ull get there, and if your work it right, each tiem u model u will feel more confident, and better, and u wotn lose motivation, in no time ull get the hang of it!

well, its all i have to say, im banned so my banning will get extended for sure, but i hope at least i was usefull for someone, my grammer knowladge of english is really week, i apologyze for all the mistakes on spelling i did, neitherless, ill be glad if i was usefull for someone.


PS: get an A4 white sheet, write on it "u should be modelling", and hang it in the ceiling right above your desk chair, this helps

cheers

MikeS
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Posted: 15th Apr 2005 07:29
First thing is first, learn how to navigate in your modelling package. Before you even try to model something in the new package, at least know how to extrude faces and select and move vertices, edges and faces.

Once you know that much, download a model from 3D cafe(any model!), and try to trace around it by extruding parts of a cube. Then, slowly add detail and keep creating more faces. Once you've done that much, you can begin to customize it to your liking.

Tip 2: If you do ever(not necessarily just on this forum) recruit a 3D modeler on your indi team, treat them like a king. Keeping your modeler happy is key to a games success that'll rely on 3d.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow) My Art
Maleck
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 07:10
Another suggestion is that you do not need killer models to get the code side of you progrma working. Get some simpler models (either your self, with some help, or from a web site, and work on the coding of the game as much as you can with the placeholder models.

Once you have something that shows the dedication and time already put into the project, people may be more likely to help contrbute to it.

I do decent modeling myself, and I prefer that to programming (but alas I must do all the work at the moment - and don't even get me started on UV texturing as I am learning that right now), but I have created a selection of models that I am using to program the rest of the project around, then once it looks like I will actually get it finished, I have a couple people in mind that I would like to ask assistance from getting additional models (for different styles), but at that point, I want to have a running app that I can show them so they can decide if they want to be associated with it, and hopefully be able to offer something in return for thier contribution.

I am in the exact same boat with sound and music. I have some stand-in media that I am using to program, then once I have something that is function and can be shown to people, I will be looking for assistance with the sound department (I know even less about that than animation).

Hope it helps.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Apr 2005 22:50
I'll tell everyone right now, that I taught myself modeling. I may not be super great on organics, but... Anyhow. Its not hard to teach yourself. Heck, just take a few primitives and slap em together for starters. Most likely your not gonna sell your first game. It doesn't have to look good. Just grab a free modeler and learn. If you don't wanna do that theres always a good friend called Google. Look for models there. Its got basically every site in the world indexed, so you should be able to find somthing.

www.badpicsofmatt.tk
www.silver-dawn.net
BiggAdd
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Posted: 16th Jul 2005 10:23 Edited at: 16th Jul 2005 10:29
Modelling is not easy! No way is it easy. as adr said if someone wants a character modelled textured and animated... they expect it quick and free. What some people dont seem to realise is that in a major game, that would require 3 people to do. You have one person who specialises in modelling another who specialises in textuing and skining the modell and the other who animates the whole thing. I find modelling easy, but animating and texturing can be a bit of a bugger!

Character modelling is the worst. wanting some1 to build u a man is asking a lot. especialy if u want him moving and textured! You got to keep it simple when beggining modelling. Heck i'm still a begginer with the stuff some people make.

What you have to do to learn modelling, is not copy off a real object. Just modell something that springs to ur mind. i remember posting some of my first objects on here. non of them even exist as real objects.... i dont think. Now i'm moving on to creating objects that excist like the Dragunov Sniper rifle which is still not textured. And that Oil truck.

SSDD
Same Sh** Different Day
dark coder
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 04:17
thats not totally true, most modellers are expected to model/uvmap/texture and animation can be a bonus but generally animators are seperate because to be good at animating it takes lots of experience not only howto use the animating tools but to get movement and expersions to look convincing.

the reason modellers are expected to know howto uv map and skin, is because imo modelling is an easy process, the actual texture is the most important part of a model unless your model is high poly then the texture isnt so imperitive to have, but for lowpoly models the texture is the part that can make or break a model, or show just how good the modellers talents are. there are lots of people who can only model which is fair enough, but there are very few people who only uv map and texture,

i find uv mapping the most boring part of the modelling process since its basically spending a long time looking at a wireframe mesh and just bores the hell outta me, and i also hate starting a model when all you have is a blank canvas, i love texturing tho, and generally adding lots of detail to models because you get to see lots of results rather quickly which makes them seem rather fun :p.

as for the mod teams part, im currently in 3 mod teams :o, im getting paid for the 3rd one tho, van`s point about mod teams is so right because once you do models and the renders/screenshots are posted in news on some website for the game your modding for, your guaranteed lots of people will read about it and your models will get known, which is why people like myself are very reluctant to model for some person who says they will feature you in the credits, well theres nothing wrong with that, but 90% of the time the person who asks you that has just thought up some 1/2 baked plan of a final fantasy rip off where the characters names are changed and you just know the game wont get anywhere.


Megaton Cat
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 05:44
Dark coder's right. Some of the old 500 poly UT models are textured so well they look better then most of the people's 2000+ poly models here.


Need a team? No noob bullshit, visit http://www.teamrequest.com
Erick G
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 19:46
I myself am currently cotemplating learning how to model, which at the end of the day I am sure I could do a semi-decent job. Then comes animation and texturing, where all my talent flies out the window.

I would gladly pay $$$ for models, I aprreciate the effort that goes into them, and would rather spend my time coding, and giving someone else cash for a job well done.

I am stuck in a situation now where I need models big time, but do not know where to look. I have DarkMatter 1 and 2, but besides those packs, I still need certain models.

I bought 3d canvas from TGC too, so yeah, I can model small simple models, but that is all.
Dark Serpent
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Posted: 9th Aug 2005 07:43 Edited at: 9th Aug 2005 07:45
Amen to all of that. I started here coding,and i got myself a decent program and winged it,useing tutorials and carefull observation. The nooby dark serpant can make wonders.(Although iv been here a year)Not some of my best worjk just a quick example. It really depends on how deterimined you are. If you wanna do a one man game,you gotta do graphic,coding,and sounds. If you cant do that you either have to buy models,join a team, or have a game called attack of the cubes.

Join my team, make games for the masses! Go Team Bolt Rocket!!! http://www.freewebs.com/teamboltrocket/
tpfkat
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 00:10
well, im crap at programming, moddeling, texturing,designing and animating, i do it coz i enjoy it. big software companys have seperate depts for the different jobs, so when i bought dbpro i knew i would have to do everything myself, thus i know my software will be no match for anyone elses,im in it for the fun and creative aspect.
maybe everyone should realise that if you had all talents to do everything involved to a high standard then youd be living next door to bill-bugman-gates with no money worries.
Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 18th Sep 2005 20:20
I can do some models if you want post your requests here

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60962&b=3

New game about to be unleashed steal un theif
Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 04:23
Dark Mad, you are a horrible, horrible spammer! Die a horrible anti-noob league death.

TEH NEW MEZZZz11111111
Under-cover Noob. Protecting the old. Doing Crap!
We kill n00bs for cheap.
Magic Marker
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 00:49
I hope the following doesn't get anyones backs up. I just think an alternative opinion might be required on this thread.

Let's get one thing clear. I'm a newbie on this forum (2nd post) but far from a newbie in terms of writing code, I started writing simple games in Basic on the Sinclair ZX81 when I was 10, graduated to the Spectrum +2, and finally graduated to writing Business Apps for a living and I've now been coding in one way or another for over 20 years. I've had games published on Magazines in Ireland and for some strange reason Sweden!?!?! I've had Technical Articles published in Ireland and the USA.

So, I'm not the lazy sponging dumbass that newbies are sometimes portrayed as on this and other forums.

Now, with the introductions out of the way, let me do my best to rebalance this thread a little bit.

If I've learned one thing in all my years of working and hobbying it's this. Do the things you enjoy. Do a few things well rather than a lot of things badly.

I don't enjoy modelling. I just don't. I never enjoyed graphics work of any sort. It's a very special talent and I have huge admiration for those who master it. I don't have that talent and I'm not prepared to spend 3 months learning a skill that I find boring, when I could spend that 3 months getting better at coding 3D games. Something I need more experience of.

I love coding. I do it well. Even If I didn't get paid to do it I'd still be doing it as a hobby. I've spent 10 years reading and writing about programming. I've studied it's theory and it's practice.

I respect the fact that Coding and Modelling are two very different skills requiring two different kinds of mind. There is overlap and some people are good at both. But for me I know my games will be better if I can find talented Graphics people work with me.

In commercial business Apps I don't waste my time working on the Graphics for our User Interfaces. I know that the finished product will be better if I use talented people to do that.

So. When I thought about getting back into games programming as a hobby I had a few decisions to make. What Language to use, what type of games to write, what to expect of those games, whether to do it all myself or find talented people I can work with.

It is not my goal to make commercial games. Every game I've ever made has been free. Those on Magazines were full games with nothing more than a request for a postcard, which many people sent.

I like creating games and giving them away, the fun is in knowing others are playing them. I like giving away my source code, the fun is in knowing that someone else can take a short cut through the hard work I had to do and as a result they can go further than I had time to.

We all stand on the shoulders of others. It's wrong to not offer your own shoulders in return.

So when it comes to modelling I want to work with someone who is more talented that I ever want to be. Someone who feels as strongly about Modelling as I do about Coding. Someone who shares my philosophy. Someone who doesn't mind working for 2 to 3 weeks or 2 to 3 months on a project for the pleasure of seeing it finished.
Someone who isn't doing it for money or credit but for fun, and for the fun of knowing that others are using their stuff and learning from their stuff.

So. If I ask for someone to help me out on a project, then so be it. If you don't fit the description I posted above then ignore my post. If you want money for your models then ignore my post. It's not because I'm cheap, in by business I pay a lot for the work of talented people. But in my hobby I work for free and for fun and I'm looking for others who will work with me on the same basis.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to get paif for your models. You should try to turn your hobbies into a career. I did. I make a good living from coding which was once my hobby.

But when I'm in hobby mode I'm doing it for fun.


Now to end. I have a couple of game ideas in my notebook, I've been tinkering with these ideas in DarkBasic. If you're a modeller, and you like what you heard in this thread, then I'm open to working with ANYONE who agrees with my philosophy.

Just as dedicated coders need models, dedicated modellers need code to bring their models to life. I Do Code.

Sorry again if anyone is offended by this Newbie rant.

-MM
KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 25th Nov 2005 15:59
As a 3D artist, I agree with the line "you can be in my credits"...or "you'll receive compensation once the game sells". Now, if someone needs a model that takes all of 20 minutes to do, and it helps them out...sure that's no problem; it's good practice as I see it. But if that same person then begins to ask for game objects all the time for nothing, that's a bit different.

There's nothing wrong with giving away free models, depending on teh complexity and how it affects your everyday life. I just get a bit disgruntled when someone wants the artist to define their version of free...that's what a license is for. There is a thread about that in FPSC/Chat forum, if you don't know what I'm getting at. It turned me off from the whole 'free model' realm.

If someone is paying for a model of mine, I want them to feel like they got their money's worth...not feel like they got one over on the artist. I (like many other artists, and programmers) spent a great deal of time learning what we do. I have learned to be a decent modeler/texturer, and am trying to figure out how to make my models game-ready(even with an installer to make it easier on the user).

I like Supremecy's idea of modeling once a day; if anything it helps you retain the skills you've already discovered. I know that the longer I am away from my modeler or paint program, the more I forget and the longer it takes me to refresh my skills.

One thing I want to work on more is not just how a model looks (how many polys, etc.), but how it looks and interacts in the game environment; whats the poly limit for the whole game, etc.

Anyways, just my input.

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
Augmento
18
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Joined: 21st Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 21st Dec 2005 14:48
hmph. i have visited the following 3d model market places.

http://www.3dcommune.com
(mostly poser and V3 stuff)

http://www.turbosquid.com
(some good stuff, license iffy since it allows performance but prohibits distribution)

http://www.autosurf-manager.net/Nebo/index.htm
(good models, no textures)

http://www.sj3d.com/juri/

http://horrordivine.hostrocket.com/home.htm
http://www.3dmodelworks.com/
http://www.3dmax.com/
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/3dmodels.html

and most modelers are try to sell stuff for personal use only. who needs that?

i will pay for non-exclusive or exclusive license to use models in a commercial game. most of the model packs are stuff that takes all of 20min to model and i would say half of them are using freebie textures anyways.

if you sell non-exclusive licenses, you the artist can sell it to as many people you like and therefore keep the price down heck you might even be able to occasionally sell a character creation pack license in return for 'credit'

http://augmenton.kaneva.com
SimSmall
19
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Joined: 7th Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:34 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 16:35
I'm a noobie at this myself - but

Quote: "1. Credits. They don't mean squat."


Sorry if you didn't want this dragging back up again. But, I gotta agree with this here - I never watch the credits, if I finish a game and they're un-skippable I'll usually just go put a Chicago Town pizza in the microwave, and come back a few minutes later hoping that the long boring thing has finished, and so I'd never know who did the amazing modelling anyway.

There's lots of free (or failing that, cheap) software out there, and loads of tutorials for them if people can be bothered looking for them... The actual principle of modelling isn't that hard, "put some points in 3D space and connect them all together". Building something good though, Requires patience, and a lot of practice.
The good modellers on this forum weren't born with the skill, it's not genetic, they took time to learn how to do this - I'm trying to learn it, and seeing just how long it really does take. You read on a post it takes several posts, but if you've never tried it, you just laugh and don't believe it... So I can totally sympathathise with the modellers who are constantly plagued with "Build this", "Build it now", "Do it well", "Finish it today, I'm getting fed up waiting", "wah wah wah", "me me me"

...maybe one day I'll finish a project

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