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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Tutorial On Making Tutorials

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TDK
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 17:54 Edited at: 2nd May 2010 16:44
This might annoy some people, but it has to be said:

Noobs should NOT write tutorials!

Far too many inexperienced users on here are writing what they think are tutorials which are full of incorrect information. Other noobs are reading them and thinking that what they have read is correct when it is not.

Tutorials need to be done properly or they do more harm than good and some, (definitely not all) leave a lot to be desired.

Tutorials are read by newcomers who soak up information like an empty sponge. So, if your tutorial contains bad information, they will assume that it's correct - after all, the tutorial author has experience and knows what he/she is talking about right?

Obviously not always...


Know Your Subject!

You shouldn't attempt writing a tutorial if you don't know the subject inside out. What's the point if when you've finished, other more experienced coders have to correct your mistakes or if when someone asks you how to modify it to do something else and you don't have a clue how?

I've seen this happen in so-called tutorials in the past.


Writing Style

You either have it or you don't. Your tutorial should be smooth flowing and easy to read as well as informative. Plan it so that you don't mention something before introducing it later on. Try to cover things sequentially in sections in the order they are needed to complete the task.

Try to create a rapport with your reader - suggesting that 'we' are going to do something next - giving the reader the impression that you are only talking to them and that they have your undivided attention.


What Is A Tutorial

Reading some of the tutorials on here, it's apparent that the definition of what a tutorial should be isn't clear to everyone.

A tutorial should explain in detail how to do a given task, covering how it's done and whenever possible why it's done.

Simply putting lots of lines of code without explaining how the commands work or why you used them is no more helpful that copying and pasting code from the Code Snippets board.

You could even point out the pitfalls for beginners and reasons why doing it the way you did it is better than another way.

What you should avoid is stating the obvious:

GH# = Get Ground Height(1,Px,Pz)+2.0

This gets the ground height.


Well duh! Tell me something I don't know. Like how?

What's that # thing? What's the 1 for? What's Px and Pz?

You see what I'm getting at? Simply saying it get's the ground height is not acceptable in a tutorial for beginners. You can guess as much from the function name 'Get Ground Height'.


Indentation:

Another thing a seasoned programmer does is indent code. If the listings in your tutorial aren't indented, then don't expect anyone to read your tutorial. I certainly wouldn't!

Indented code is easier on the eye and a lot easier to read.

This however cannot be achieved on this forum as all extraneous whitespace is removed from your text when it is posted.

To get around this, use the code button at the top of the Edit Forum Messsage panel. Simply paste your indented code in, highlight it with the mouse and click on the button. Your code will appear like this:




Structured Code:

Layout your program listings correctly. A main program loop with 200 lines of code and no procedures is untidy, hard to read and shows lack of programming experience.

Keep your main loops as short and uncluttered as possible.

Move code into procedures or functions which do specific tasks repeatedly. This leaves your main loop consisting primarily of lots of Gosubs/function calls.


GOTO:

This is a real no-no! You should never, ever, ever use the Goto command in a tutorial as it promotes unstructured programming to newcomers.

Goto is a legacy command and is a throwback to the days when we used programming languages which didn't have procedures and functions. It's only left in there for compatibility reasons and in my opinion should have been removed years ago!

Anyone with programming experience can easily write programs without using Goto. If you don't have the knowledge to avoid using Goto then you shouldn't be writing tutorials!


Spelling:

There's nothing worse than a tutorial full of typos. If you can't spell, for goodness sake use a spellchecker or dictionary before you post.


Target Your Audience:

Tell the reader early on, what experience level your tutorial is aimed at. Let them know as soon as possible what you expect them to already know.

Is your tutorial for complete beginners or intermediate where you expect them to already know what arrays are and how they work.

If possible, give them links to other tutorials which explain topics in detail if they aren't sure - so they can read them and then come back and carry on reading your tutorial.


Conclusions:

All this takes lots of time and hard work - definitely not for the faint-hearted. But if you are going to do a tutorial, make sure that it really is a tutorial and both informs and educates the reader.

Good luck!

TDK_Man

Code Dragon
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 15:32 Edited at: 14th Jan 2007 15:40
Great tips! Even though I already knew a lot of them, this should raise the quality of the tutorials here.

Quote: "What Is A Tutorial

Reading some of the tutorials on here, it's apparent that the definition of what a tutorial should be isn't clear to everyone."


Yes, I've seen some tutorials where I get shown a very huge block of code and below it there's a one line description. That's why I only give about two lines at a time and explain what they do (it's for intermediates, so I only explain how it does it if it's cryptic looking, they should be experienced enough to understand how a simple line of code does an operation.) What I've been doing every month or so is follow my own tutorial to make sure the information is 100% clear, but my tutotial has't gotten any responses lately, so I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'm already doing most of the tips you've posted (but there was one instance where I considered using a GOTO. ), maybe it's too in depth.

Quote: "Spelling:

There's nothing worse than a tutorial full of typos. If you can't spell, for goodness sake use a spellchecker or dictionary before you post."


Something I'm horrible at. The worst part is my spell checker's broken.

Here's a suggestion: add spacing and remarks under the indentation section. They make code loads easier to read. I've also seen most people here type their commands in lowercase, that's slightly easier to read in my opinion, and saves typing time since you don't have to use the shift key.

Quote: "Gimme teh code!"

Thank you for not flooding the forums with posts like this.
TDK
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 19:00
Quote: "my tutotial has't gotten any responses lately"


I'd class that as a good thing and it means that people are happy with your tutorial.

I'm sure a much larger percentage of people are more motivated to write letters of complaint (or correction) than letters of praise. Likewise, on here, most users will normally only bother responding if you missed something out or got something wrong.

I too get little response to my tutorials, but to me, a better guide is the ratio of the number of people who have viewed the thread against the number of complaints!

TDK_Man

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Posted: 15th Jan 2007 09:17
nice tutorial
the quality of the tutorials ive read so far is excellent, but yea ive seen some things on your list there

thx ^^
Gillypie
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 21:56
ok im a noob, and i havent tried making tutorials, but you can't dis people who are trying to help because they get a few lines of code mixed up.
also i don't think their is anything wrong with goto, and i use it alot, and if you think that makes me a bad programmer then you are sadly mistaken.
no offence to you tdk, but, well you get my point.
Code Dragon
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 22:49 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 22:57
Quote: "i don't think their is anything wrong with goto, and i use it alot, and if you think that makes me a bad programmer then you are sadly mistaken."


I once thought as you did. Goto can be a fast and easy quick fix, but down the line it just gets in the way. Looking back I thought I was a good programmer when I made a 3600 text adventure last year. Because of all the gotos I used, it was a tangled mess and I can't even fathom what in the world I was thinking when I made that program. The strangest thing is that it survived up to 3600 lines, that is a achivement in itself.

You can use the goto if you like, just please not in a tutorial.

Quote: "you can't dis people who are trying to help because they get a few lines of code mixed up."


I think he means that if someone messes up a few lines of code, it's likely they don't really know what they're doing. Regular bugs are human nature, but I found a tutorial that went somthing like this:

hey ive seen alot of posts around here with ppl asking about arrays and i think i have a way ppl can understand it



That code doesn't do a single thing to the array except dimension it. It explains nothing correctly. TDK's talking about posts like that.

Quote: "Gimme teh code!"

Thank you for not flooding the forums with posts like this.
TDK
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 23:09
Quote: "ok im a noob, and i havent tried making tutorials, but you can't dis people who are trying to help because they get a few lines of code mixed up."


Yes I can!

How in any way, shape or form is incorrect information in a tutorial helpful? The idea of tutorials is that they educate people. Bad tutorials do the opposite and do far more harm than good.

Besides - if I understand your ghetto terminology correct - I ain't dissin' no-one! I'm showing how people can get it right in the first place and/or helping to correct the mistakes they make.

So let me get this right... you, as a self-confessed noob would prefer to read a tutorial which shows you how to do something incorrectly - complete with programs that don't work?

Get real!

Quote: "also i don't think their is anything wrong with goto, and i use it alot, and if you think that makes me a bad programmer then you are sadly mistaken."


Sorry, but I'm not mistaken at all. Let's just say that a good programmer doesn't use Goto and leave it at that. If you want to infer the negative then please feel free.

OK, so you don't think there's anything wrong with Goto. Let me ask you something... Exactly why do you use Goto 'alot' [sic]?

Could it be that it's because you are a noob and don't know any better?

Or how about explaining to us all the benefits of using it - other than the fact that you don't have to learn how to program properly using procedural functions and subroutines?

If more experienced coders didn't tell you that using Goto was bad, you wouldn't know any better and would never become a better programmer.

Crikey Goto was declared obsolete by Kernighan & Ritchie back in 1978 never mind now!

And I'm still waiting for someone to show me a program which uses Gotos that can't be written without using them!

TDK_Man

empty
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 00:39
While this is certainly a very good (no surprise considering the source) and also a badly needed tutorial, I beg to differ regarding the GOTO statement . You are absolutely right, it is something that promotes unstructured code. But it shouldn't be banned as it can be rather helpful if used sparingly and wisely. After all it's on the same level as a loop-EXIT statement (for the compiler anyways). Just that it has a label to jump to which is something that can even increase the readability of the code eventually. I know, that there are not many with me, but I think it has to be said .

BatVink
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 17:02
I think this is a worthy topic. It is very true - if you've never been here before, you don't know Bob from Bert (or Barrie ). Personally, I don't take anything as valid until I've seen more than one example of good work from someone, or a relative degree of praise for that person.

Quote: "but you can't dis people who are trying to help because they get a few lines of code mixed up"

I will repeat what has been said - yes you can! Imagine your Math(s) teacher telling getting just one part of the standard Quadratic equation "mixed up". I hope that puts it in context for you.

Quote: "i don't think their is anything wrong with goto, and i use it alot, and if you think that makes me a bad programmer then you are sadly mistaken."


TDK may say it doesn't make you a good programmer, but I have to disagree slightly...it does make you a programmer with bad habits. As he said, there is no situation that requires GOTO over other methods.

...Oh, and Dykstra was in there back in the sixties!


The message here, though, is that people who firstly have the knowledge can write tutorials, and there is plenty of information here on how to improve yourself.



TDK
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 19:09
empty:

I accept your comments because of one thing - you're an experienced programmer and you know what you are doing. What we are talking about here is the use of Gotos in tutorials for beginners.

Quote: "But it shouldn't be banned as it can be rather helpful if used sparingly and wisely."


I'm still not entirely convinced. Without the years of programming experience we have, using Goto can be quite destructive. Even the wording you used in the sentence suggests that there's an element of 'I shouldn't really be doing this' about using it...

And if there are ways to avoid it's use, I can't see the point in keeping it.

Like I've said before, if it magically vanished from DB this very moment, there isn't a single program that couldn't be written better without it.

And people starting off programming for the first time should be warned off it whenever possible.

Quote: "TDK may say it doesn't make you a good programmer, but I have to disagree slightly...it does make you a programmer with bad habits."


Bad wording perhaps on my part there. It's a semantics issue if anything. Is a good programmer with bad habits still a good programmer or is any programmer with bad habits a bad programmer?!

The point is, to not use Goto at all takes a little more effort and in the long term makes you a better programmer. Forcing yourself not to use it when first starting gives you an edge over those that do use it.

What I'm not totally sure of is why anyone would want to use the unstructured Goto command when there are ways to avoid it...

TDK_Man

Code Dragon
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 21:49
GOTO I think should be left in for beginners, but once they learn how to use loops and functions they should stop using it. It's like forcing first graders to add mentally and not with their fingers. They'll find it very hard, much the way that newcomers don't understand arrays before they understand variables.

Quote: "Quote: "but you can't dis people who are trying to help because they get a few lines of code mixed up"
I will repeat what has been said - yes you can! Imagine your Math(s) teacher telling getting just one part of the standard Quadratic equation "mixed up". I hope that puts it in context for you."


I agree, that's why I'm frantically trying to find the code problem in my tutorial that Diggsey reported. He's yet to tell me where the problem is though. A NASA satteltie or spaceship (can't remember which) exploded because someone messed up 1 line of code.

Quote: "Gimme teh code!"

Thank you for not flooding the forums with posts like this.
TDK
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 22:09
Quote: "It's like forcing first graders to add mentally and not with their fingers."


Good analogy lol!

But what about all those teenagers who now can't stop counting with their fingers!

Wouldn't it be better to show all of them only how to do it mentally?

Much better than to say here's an easy but bad way and when you are used to using it we want you to forget you ever used it and use a different way...

TDK_Man

empty
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 22:37
Quote: "What we are talking about here is the use of Gotos in tutorials for beginners."

Absolutely, that's why my wording was so cautious.

What I meant is, that under certain circumstances the goto statement IS an alternative to the exit statement (exit from a loop). Now- of course- there's no program that can't be done without the exit statement, but than it should be equally damned. When the source is compiled the result is the same; be it a GOTO or EXIT, they'll all become an unconditional "jmp". Sometimes it can be easier to track GOTO than EXIT. You just need to find the label rather than the end of a loop. And since most IDE's keep a list of labels it's just a click away. It's also a possible way to jump out of multiple nested loops without any additional time consuming comparisons. Although after all I do prefer the JavaScript approach, as it supports "exit label" statements. That's perfect for me.

Gillypie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 23:03
alright then your right.
i guess im just nooby, but what can you use other than goto, i know gosub but goto is much more convenient.
BatVink
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Posted: 20th Jan 2007 00:00
Quote: "A NASA satteltie or spaceship (can't remember which) exploded because someone messed up 1 line of code."


Arianne 5. They moved a 16-bit arithmetic operation into an 8-bit register. The result was that the logic said it was thousands of miles off course, took evasive action, and ripped itself apart.



TDK
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Posted: 20th Jan 2007 00:50
Quote: "alright then your right. i guess im just nooby, but what can you use other than goto"


No - not at all. Actually, to be honest, I'm not comfortable with the term 'noob' as to me it has derogatory overtones. I only used it in this thread really to force the point and raise a bit of a reaction.

Over the many years of being on all of the DB forums, I don't think I've ever used it more than a couple of times.

Anyway, people who use Goto generally do so because:

a) They've simply never been shown a better way
b) They're experienced enough programmers to know the dangers
c) They've been told but prefer to do it their own way

I'm really only interested in helping those in category a) by making sure that they are at least aware that there's a better way. If they want to disregard my advice then fine - it won't be me having the problems later on!

As for your question, the idealogy behind procedural programming is that tasks are carried out in blocks called procedures (or subroutines). These subroutines are called using the Gosub command instead of Goto.

The big difference is that with subroutines, once the code has been executed, the program automatically returns to the line following the calling Gosub line and continues.

Functions are similar, but are a little more advanced as they use local variables, can have parameters passed to them, return a single value and can be used like commands.

If you are simply removing Gotos from a program, then all you need to do is to replace them with subroutines and Gosubs. Using functions would merely add complications for this task.

How you convert a program with Gotos to one without depends on the program itself. If you want to paste some code into this thread which you can't figure out how to convert I'd be happy to look at it for you.

Essentially, you need your program to have a single main loop and the code which you currently have in sections you jump to with Goto, taken out and placed into subroutines. You then jump to these subroutines with Gosub when required.

If you want to trap the program in a subroutine (say for an options menu screen), then use another loop, but only exit the loop (and therefore the subroutine) when the 'Play Game' option has been selected - at which point the program drops back to the main loop.

The other added benefit of this 'modular' approach is that if you need to add another feature to your program, you simply create a new subroutine and add another Gosub to the main loop!

TDK_Man

Gillypie
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Posted: 20th Jan 2007 23:57
kl

ive tried gosub out with a subroutine for uploading all the media.

Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 03:52
Nice tutorial on tutorials TDK.

Thats a pretty shiny badge your wearing too. Good job.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 04:46
The blind leading the blind comes to mind when I see tutorials made by newbies. I agree whole heartily with TDK (especially about "goto")

I'd like to see the forums have a new ability. If the word "tutorial" is in the subject the message it is treated as if it was posted by somebody with a newbie slap. The message is hidden to us till it's reviewed by the mods. If the tutorial isn't up to par the reason is posted and the thread is allowed to be viewed but locked.

This will do 2 things.

1. Show newbie readers that the tutorial isn't the best to follow.

2. Show tutorial makers they really need to know their stuff before attempting to make a tutorial.

Also if people try to go around the filter by purposely not using "tutorial" in the subject they get an automatic month newbie slap if the message is obviously designed as a tutorial.
Code Dragon
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 14:52
@Grog Grueslayer

I disagree, if someone who did know their stuff, but didn't know they'd be noob slapped, they might write "tut" instead. And the mods would never know they weren't trying to get past filter.

Anyway, if someone has intentions good enough to write a tutorial, they'd have no reason to believe the mods wouldn't let it through.

I think a better idea would be to add 2 more boards to the forum.

Tutorials

The Hall of Shame

All the tutorials which aren't misleading people get transfered to the tutorials board, where you can't start threads but can reply. All locked threads, and misleading tutorials get sent to the hall of shame, where you can reply if it's not locked but also can't start threads.

That'll show people the good and the bad.

Quote: "Gimme teh code!"

Thank you for not flooding the forums with posts like this.
Phaelax
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 09:13
Quote: " i know gosub but goto is much more convenient"


How so? Goto can make messy code because it jumps the programmer around so much. When you see a Gosub, you always know where the routine will finish, from the spot it was called. Same goes for functions. The main difference is where everything else returns back to where the call was made, whereas with Goto you'll never know where you're going to end up.


Quote: "
This gets the ground height.


Well duh! Tell me something I don't know. Like how?

What's that # thing? What's the 1 for? What's Px and Pz?

You see what I'm getting at? Simply saying it get's the ground height is not acceptable in a tutorial.
"


I sort of have to disagree on that one. Maybe explain the +2 part, but when I write tutorials I expect the reader to know what a manual is. If its a DBP native function, then the parameters are described in the manual for those willing to look. And unless you're writing a programming primer for the absolute beginner, # should be understood already. If not, then the read is really just jumping ahead of themselves.

Other than that, I agree with everything else.


As for a separate Tutorial board, it'll only work if its highly moderated so it doesn't turn out like the codebase.

Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 10:06
Sorry to go off topic! But TDK man your a MOD?!


Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 13:01
@Phaelax - I think he meant in general people doing something like the get ground height thing.

TDK
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 22:26
Phaelax:

Quote: "I sort of have to disagree on that one."


Yes, in that particular case I was referring to tutorials which claimed to be for complete beginners or those which claim to 'get you started'.

TDK_Man

Hammaman
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Posted: 24th Jan 2007 14:22
Quote: "Noobs should NOT write tutorials!"


I personally think this is a bit harsh. Surely the point of the forums is for people to post their ideas and for others to review them. If the tutorial sucks, then I would expect the response to say so. I'd also expect the Mods NOT to add the tutorial to the stickies at the top of the relevant forum until the community response was generally positive and any bugs had been ironed out.

As someone new to DBPro, but not to BASIC programming, I would view myself as in the newcomers category, but feel I can share my knowledge with others. For example, if I've had a play with ghosting objects and can put together a post showing what I've done, then why shouldn't I share this with other newcomers?
RUCCUS
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Posted: 24th Jan 2007 21:54
You're misunderstanding completely.

If you know how to accomplish something correctly and efficiently with dark basic, (not a "noob"), then you can instruct people on how to use it.

However.

As TDK has mentioned, if you know how to accomplish something with DB according to you, when in reality it's teaching bad programming practices and will end up giving more problems than help in the first place, you should not, NOT, be writing any source of help on the topic. Why? Because newcommers dont know you're experience level, but will automatically assume that since you're writing a tutorial, you must know what you're talking about, and so they too will pick up these bad programming practices and spread them to other people.

Believe me, TDK wouldnt be harsh if he didnt have to, but theres been countless times when newcommers write tutorials that make no sense at all, the only way to get through that you should NOT be doing this, is to lay down the harshness.


So, again, if you know what you're talking about, then tutorials are fine, if you think you know what you're talking about, tutorials are a no-no.

TDK
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 16:32 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 16:35
Quote: "If the tutorial sucks, then I would expect the response to say so."


Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. Some tutorials on here I'm afraid to say do suck. However, if you look at most of the comments in those threads they are usually praise for the tutorial's author.

The problem is that understandably, those giving the praise don't have the experience to know that they've just read a poor tutorial which has told them the wrong way to do something.

It's up to 'bad guys' like me to point out the reality as politely as possible - that people who write bad tutorials are doing more harm than good.

Quote: "As someone new to DBPro, but not to BASIC programming, I would view myself as in the newcomers category"


But that doesn't matter. I can read a tutorial you write and tell straight away if you are an experienced programmer or not. I don't care if you are a 'noob' with DB so long as your tutorial is of a high enough quality, the code snippets work and it is fit for purpose. My gripe is only with those that are not.

Let's be honest here...

I write tutorials - lots of them. If you add up the hours spent writing them I must have spent months typing, writing code snippets, proof-reading and then checking them again - to make sure they are of a decent quality.

Then people who seem to have been using DB a couple of months come along and write tutorials on the same subject, but do it poorly, in what appears to be about half an hour, showing newcomers bad programming methods with even worse spelling - complete with code snippets that don't even run!

And the users they are aimed at think they are great!

What's more, after explaining to them what they should do to fix the problems, they do nothing.

That's why it bugs me so much...

Quote: "if I've had a play with ghosting objects and can put together a post showing what I've done, then why shouldn't I share this with other newcomers? "


No reason at all and I'd welcome it!

But if you posted it as a tutorial and it wasn't up to scratch you can be sure I'd point out the shortcomings...

TDK_Man

Peter H
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 16:42
It's a good point TDK, i've seen lots of good tutorials around here... but also lots that make me wince, yet still get praise

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
BatVink
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 18:05
The problem is when the word "Tutorial" is used. It gives it an air of Officialdom, the way it should be done, and written in stone. Many of these things should be presented as a useful code snippet or handy hint, in which case people will suggest how it can be improved, or correct it if it's just plain wrong.



Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 18:19
It's that praise that encourages them to write more tutorials and not listen to the advice of more experienced programmers.

Hammaman
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 22:09
Thanks for your responses Ruccus, TDK and all.

I certainly don't want to see poorly written tutorials out there for newcomers such as myself. But I also feel that all users, even newcomers, should be encouraged to participate in the forums.

Quote: "The problem is when the word "Tutorial" is used. It gives it an air of Officialdom, the way it should be done, and written in stone"


I completely agree - so how do I share an idea without incurring the wrath of TDK ? Should I be using the word Hint or Useful code snippet - I'm not sure these words are baggage free either (and how easy is it to access them later by searching the forums?)

... and it would be nice to help lighten TDK's workload!
TDK
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Posted: 26th Jan 2007 22:17
I think a tutorial should be akin to those 'Masterclass' TV programs where the subject is covered by an expert in the relevant subject.

After a tutorial, you should understand the topic to a degree which allows you to both implement it in your own programs without anyone else's help and/or adapt it to your own requirements. The dangers to be aware of when implementing it would be an advantage too.

A tutorial which ends with the user having the code to do something, but not really understanding what it's actually doing, to me isn't really a tutorial.

And Hammaman, don't worry - I've got a virus (human type) at the moment and I'm all out of wrath!

TDK_Man

jasonhtml
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 18:22
this was a very interesting post and i just came up with an idea for rich: what if he added a feature to the forums so that mods could add "[Tutorial]" status to good tutorials. or we could have a tutorial board so that tutorials are easy to find. that way, in a tutorial-only board, mods could sticky all of the good tutorials.

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