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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / I'm Stuck in Multisync

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3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 02:58
I have set up host & client and they work as far as pushing the 3d boxes around. When I add messaging from the tutoral, I'm not getting results, nothing that can be seen, anyway.

Has anybody had success with making Multisync into a chat program that is willing to share a bit of code?

What has really perplexed me is the message I saw about messages coming in to host one way, but going out backwards the other way. I don't understand what is meant by that at all. Not knowing how the .dll's are structured makes it difficult to picture.

I'm also curious about the 'until' statement in the tutoral message code because that looks like a perpetual loop? In a multiplayer game wouldnt that cause a huge lag?

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 03:05 Edited at: 4th Feb 2007 03:21
I had the same problem it won't start sending out messages until you use the "net player joined()" command on the server end.

it sends an recieves messages in the order you would expect
1,2,3,4 comes out 1,2,3,4 at the other end so don't worry about it.

"while NET MESSAGE ()" Just processes all the net messages. It's true someone could bomb your server with messages and cause denial of service attack. It's up to you to handle this with your coding. I like to use the pass the token method, if you aint got the token the server drops your packets.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 03:35
Thanks for reply GatorHex. I'm putting in PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR NET PLAYERS and running a test with it.

Would you mind explaining token method? I haven't heard of it.

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 03:44 Edited at: 4th Feb 2007 05:14
I've just put a live server test up behind my NAT router can you do me a favour and test it please to see if it connects.

My client is at:
http://www.kumkie.com/TestNet.exe (793kb)

If you prefer to compile your own using MultiSync v1.0


Token method is very old method from way back when we had token networks running on BNC cable. To stop everyone sending network messages at the same time a token was passed to each client in turn so it could speak to the server.

I think the idea came from the old red Indian method of handling meetings using the "pipe of peace" to stop everyone arguing only the person holding the pipe could talk when they finished what they had to say they passed it onto the next person

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 03:53
Thats very interesting. Are you using the net check id and then setting up a loop with that?

When I run the program I get "could not start server: connection failed" I ran twice to be sure

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 04:02
Are you using the current version of MultiSync? v1.0 the one released today? http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=99188&b=5

I don't recognise "net check id" or "could not start server: connection failed"

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 04:08
Nope! didn't know about the new edition. Let me get that.

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 04:18 Edited at: 4th Feb 2007 05:16
Here's a copy of my test server code to get you going on your chat program..



Both my server and client codes are about the bare minimum you need to get something up and running. I'm just using the clock to control messages going out at 1 per second and it's not bothering to listen the client.

Did you test my client to see if you can connect to my server? You might need to let it through your firewall if u have one. Let me know what message it fails with if it fails plx.



Ah well its 3:30am i better get some sleep

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 04:26
Thanks a ton for the chat code! I'll give it a look.

I just downloaded Msync1.0 and retried your .exe Same error. Knowing me I don't have files in the right folders or need to reboot. Rechecking.

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 04:32
I'm going to read through the new manual

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
3D Coding
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 05:20
One idea I'm working on is to use the first four characters as a code between the host and client.

MSG$ = player is sending a message to the other users
PLT$ = player is requesting data for his colonies (on planets)
and etc

thus message$="MSG$Hey stop attacking my planet!"
if left$(message$,4)="MSG$" then (gosub send message routine)
if left$(message$,4)="PLT$" then (gosub send data to player routine)

Now, thats sort of the old way of doing things, and it doesn't work in the NET PLAYER FROM to differentiate one player from the other. Thats another thing i just don't get yet.

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
dark coder
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 07:04
Using 4 characters is a bad ideas as that is 4 bytes, it's best to just use one byte as a packet header to designate the packet type, also if you look at the Zombies game I made that benjamin posted I added chatting code, aswell as packet header handling code and prettymuch everything, including the player from data, also howto send data to players and howto make exceptions etc.

Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 13:51
Quote: "I'm also curious about the 'until' statement in the tutoral message code because that looks like a perpetual loop? In a multiplayer game wouldnt that cause a huge lag?"

It's necessary to read all available messages as soon as possible. If you read less messages than you receive every frame, you'll run into serious problems.

Quote: "Thanks for reply GatorHex. I'm putting in PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR NET PLAYERS and running a test with it."

You can't mix MS with DBP's netplay commands.

Quote: "I'm just using the clock to control messages going out at 1 per second and it's not bothering to listen the client."

I'm not sure if this is the same as what you want, but you could just send a message to a player when it joins, like:



Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP)
GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 17:35 Edited at: 4th Feb 2007 17:37
Found a RIP2-B (routable IP broadcast) option in my routers LAN settings somone try and connect plx and see if it work now?

My client is at:
http://www.kumkie.com/TestNet.exe (793kb)

If you prefer to compile your own using MultiSync v1.0



Thanx.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 18:14 Edited at: 4th Feb 2007 18:18
Tried it just now, connection failed. Though maybe you closed it by now..

Edit: Are you sure your IP is correct? I just tried pinging 81.174.154.100 and got no response.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Feb 2007 19:02 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 01:10
Yeah 81.174.154.100 is my fixed IP it's been online for years. Try http://81.174.154.100 to access port 80 if you wana test if its online i don't think my router responds to pings.

UPDATE: Changed my LAN to 192.168.1.x (what a nightmare Apache was ) I don't think it will make a difference but im desperate so somone give it a test plx

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
3D Coding
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 03:33
Benjamin: Thanks a ton. I'd like to take you up on your kind offer to write a basic example. That would be a great boost and much appreciated.

GatorHex: Do I need to download a new version so its pointing at the new IP?

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 11:01
No the old client should work as it is, only the interal LAN IP has changed the external IP which you connect to remains the same. 81.174.154.100 port 8181.

I didn't think it would make a difference. I suspect Benjamins MultiSync is using DirectX netplay somehow so suffers the same NAT problems as dispite being given a port number it attempts a network broadcast.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
dark coder
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 11:04
Quote: "I didn't think it would make a difference. I suspect Benjamins MultiSync is using DirectX netplay somehow so suffers the same NAT problems as dispite being given a port number it attempts a network broadcast."


Ha, I had no problems with this plugin from when I first got it, including when testing with other players over the net, your port forwarding skills must be lacking .

Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2007 13:25 Edited at: 5th Feb 2007 13:34
Quote: "I suspect Benjamins MultiSync is using DirectX netplay somehow so suffers the same NAT problems as dispite being given a port number it attempts a network broadcast.
"

As I just said in the other thread, it's based on Winsock, which 99% of other network applications in Windows are. I'm not sure what you mean by "attemping a network broadcast" though, Multisync just listens for connections - it's the router's job to forward these connections to the computer. I can promise you that on a standard configuration, it only requires the single port to be forwarded, and it'll all work correctly. I'm going to check that NET SET PORT actually works, but I recommend you remove it from the server/client, forward port 3999 to your computer, and test it.

Edit: No, NET SET PORT works fine. Maybe you forgot to use it in the server application.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 6th Feb 2007 13:49 Edited at: 6th Feb 2007 13:50
@Dark Code there is nothing wrong with my port forwarding skills!

I admit though after sniffing MultiSync at work on the LAN it looks sweet



So there must be some bugs in the Netgeat DG843PN routers firmware me thinks. I'm trying to bring this up with Netgear but no response from them yet. I have noticed that even though I've told the box to respond to pings on the WAN it's ignoring the command so something is up

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
jinzai
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 05:41 Edited at: 7th Feb 2007 06:48
@GatorHex:
No bugs in the router. Routers don't forward broadcasts, only multicasts. Broadcasts are never intended for use outside of the network they originated in, and imagine what would happen if they did route them!


I just telneted your server...she's fine...its the client!

WRT the issue of messages and their order...there is a network byte order, and a host byte order...BUT, they only apply to the port number in the address structure used by the network code. Applications usually don't care about that...the actual message is transmitted as it was placed in the buffer.
Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 13:12 Edited at: 7th Feb 2007 13:21
Quote: "No bugs in the router. Routers don't forward broadcasts, only multicasts."

Broadcasts have nothing to do with the problem. There are absolutely no broadcasts going on, unless I'm missing something in this thread.

Quote: "WRT the issue of messages and their order...there is a network byte order, and a host byte order..."

This also has nothing to do with the connection.

Quote: "
I just telneted your server...she's fine"

Strangely enough, ping is now working too.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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jinzai
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 18:54
1. GatorHex said he thought his router was broadcasting, I am saying that it isn't. If there are bcsts on his net, its not his router, its someone's code.

2. No, but it was the question originally posed before the thread was hijacked, and I thought it would be nice to attempt to answer the question asked.

3. Nothing strange at all, like I said...make a TCP connection first. Telnet is a popular way for games to make the initial connection, and it an established service.

4. As far as the other thread...yes, port swapping is done, and I am quite sure about everything I've said.
Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2007 19:29
Quote: "2. No, but it was the question originally posed before the thread was hijacked, and I thought it would be nice to attempt to answer the question asked."

My bad, it was just rather confusing seeing as it was right under text that was directed at someone else.

Quote: "4. As far as the other thread...yes, port swapping is done"

Could you link me to somewhere that states this? I can't possibly see the point of the ISP rewriting port numbers.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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jinzai
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 02:12 Edited at: 8th Feb 2007 03:20
phluh...The server was listening on TCP/8181. I broke the dam, ping benefitted. Simple.

It would be a good idea to develop network clients and servers independently until you can establish acceptable behavior that can be duplicated each time. Using a private LAN does not address all routing issues involved. There are many TCP based services to use, like telnet, qotd, echo, ftp, et al. Typically, servers block until a TCP connection is requested. Yours seems to be doing that, and people are trying to "connect" to UDP, a protocol most notable in that it is connectionless.

Ben, I don't have a link, that is my experience talking. They block ports, and also redirect ports. You know as well as I do that the documentation is sparse and misleading...the seat of my pants (and GatorHex's log file) tell me that they absolutely do this, but...my telnet experience says that they don't ALWAYS do this. I am not interested in proving anything...but I am the one that connected to your Multisync server and the Tempest one (halfway), too.
Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 03:20
Quote: "They block ports, and also redirect ports."

Yeah, I know that for sure. It's just that some implementations of NAT like rewrite ports themselves, and I thought you might have been getting mixed up. Anyway, ISPs rewriting the source port in UDP packets isn't a problem - as long as it picks a port number and sticks to it.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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jinzai
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 05:27
Yup...I agree.
One thing about this particular app...is the client perhaps trying to bind to something other than 0.0.0.0, or the private IP? I was wondering if that might be an issue, as well? I recall you saying that clients sometimes bind, that is what I think tripped us up in the last thread. That is also why I got on about putting the computer right up to the modem.
Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Feb 2007 14:31
Quote: "One thing about this particular app...is the client perhaps trying to bind to something other than 0.0.0.0, or the private IP?"

Nah, the socket is bound by the system when the connect call is made, so the interface is automatically picked. I assume it's what all standard client TCP applications do.

Quote: "That is also why I got on about putting the computer right up to the modem."

Makes sense. I do agree that when having problems it can be a good idea to have the internet connection direct to the PC, but if the user doesn't have a firewall (or only has Windows Firewall), then there is a bit of a security risk there. I remember disabling a firewall for 10 minutes to play a game online, and by the time I had finished a worm had somehow made its way into my system.

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jinzai
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 03:42 Edited at: 9th Feb 2007 04:32
When we were trying to get the Tempest based code connected, and I went on about bind and clients, etc...I decided to go ahead and bind the (TCP)socket myself. A couple of interesting things happened when I did that. First of all, I got into GatorHex's log file. Next, my own use of the TCP sockets stabilized dramatically. It is as solid as TCP claims to be. Almost all of the errors are timed out connections... (< 1.5%). Occasionally, I'll catch the ragged edge, and recv will return 0, but that is a good thing. (Except that somehow I missed the data!) You can close directly when recv returns 0.

Let me explain a little, because I think it may be significant. I am using the dll ws2_32.dll, same as you, but...I am using the only sockets available in my scenario...blocking sockets. Connect, as you know, will block on the client side until the connection is established. (It being the client's version of listen in that respect.) When that times out, the socket is sort of stuck in the ether because the client bind does not take place (I suspect) until the connection is (at least partially) established. Anyway, every bit of socket documentation I have studied says to reuse the socket, because (again, apparently) you cannot shutdown or close a socket that has never been bound. The practical upshot was that eventually, the thing would block...permanently. This usually took a large number of failed connections, but not always. My use of expired Norton Utilities may have been complicating things...I took care of that already, however. It has not blocked at all since then.

I tried the telnet because...(once again, this is my suspicion) my stack (including perhaps my, or GatorHex's ISP) considers it a trusted application. I think that this is probably the most relevant fact to come from the experiment - a proper (or is it trusted?) client can make the TCP connection, which gets the server going.

If I could hang a sniffer on my router, I could suss it out. My ISP is very specific about not wanting them on my network. I don't necessarily agree with that because I write alot of communications apps, and don't currently desire to run a game server through this skinny pipe anyway. That is more philosophy than practical info...they don't want it there in the first place. My method of writing communications programs is based on being able to have a neutral third party watching everything...makes post mortem analysis much easier for one thing.

Which is why I am using things that are not based on any of the code being used (besides DBPro and Winsock). I'm basically just trying to help, and also it helps my efforts, too. (Besides, I think that 3 or 4 people trying the same thing is probably sufficient.)

Here is the function that does that. I already loaded winsock2 and called WSAStartup and also EnumProtocols for giggles, but...that is not at all necessary because you can simply ask for the typical protocols by name, or number. Another thing is that the array timeServers is basically a group of UDTs to hold IPV4 addresses and names. It is a TCP client, and the one I used to attempt to connect to the Tempest server. It is dirt simple, and still somewhat experimental, although it adheres to the protocol well (such as it is), and the servers always (98.5%) answer with an ASCII string...perfect.



I named "the manifest constant INADDR_ANY"...ADDR_ANY, but it is still all balls (dword 0). I also was successful binding to my private IP. Those are the only two choices; winsock2 will not allow you to bind to an address that is not the address assigned to one of the NICs in the machine it is running on. (No IP masquerading from Winsock2.)

So, I'm going to drink a gallon of coffee and dig into this one. Cheers.
Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 13:16 Edited at: 9th Feb 2007 13:21
Quote: "When we were trying to get the Tempest based code connected, and I went on about bind and clients, etc...I decided to go ahead and bind the (TCP)socket myself."

You're confusing Tempest with Multisync. Tempest is purely UDP.

Quote: "When that times out, the socket is sort of stuck in the ether because the client bind does not take place (I suspect) until the connection is (at least partially) established."

To my knowledge binding is necessary to start establishing the connection, and it automatically occurs when you perform a connect operation.

Quote: "It is a TCP client, and the one I used to attempt to connect to the Tempest server. It is dirt simple, and still somewhat experimental, although it adheres to the protocol well (such as it is), and the servers always (98.5%) answer with an ASCII string...perfect."

I don't get your point. Is it supposed to have more chance at connecting than the Multisync client (which, by the way, connects now) ?

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jinzai
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 22:17
...in that case, I'm done with it.
Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 22:37
Heh, but you may just be on to something. I don't know if Gator Hex has recently changed anything, but it definitely wasn't connecting before.

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Posted: 11th Feb 2007 04:39
Benjamin,

I printed multisync to add in some modifications, and I was really impressed with your coding. I have seen examples of both good and sloppy coding since the fall of 1975, and that code is about as close to perfect as you can get. So, in addition to being very helpful, its also a very instructive example of how to structure and write a program.

Joe

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http://me3.artofwarcentral.com/index.html <---- Come check out our BETA modules opening very soon
Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Feb 2007 14:04
3D Coding, I assume you're referring to the Zombies game that was included with Multisync? If so, that was written by Darkcoder.

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Posted: 11th Feb 2007 21:51
Benjamin: I have multisync 1.0. I don't see a game with it.
If the game is multiplayer, I would be very interested in checking it out to see how it handles communications.

So, no, I was just talking about Multisync 1.0. Its very neat, great logic, well written.

I suppose its not fair to compare to the old days because technique with Basic wasn't discussed as much as today. Back then if it worked it was good code.

MEGA EMPIRES III(c)Soltronics 2007 ---- A DarkBASIC Professional 3D Interstellar Conquest Project
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Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Feb 2007 23:46
Quote: "Benjamin: I have multisync 1.0. I don't see a game with it."

Oh right, I had forgotten that this game (written by Darkcoder here on the forums) wasn't bundled with Multisync, so I thought you were referring to that. In any case, thank you for the kind comments.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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MdaP
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:51
simple question, i hope some one can help me.

How do I convert the actions of the plugin to a 2d game, i have worked on this quite a while, and I get a client to connect to the host, but the only problem is that I am not able to move the same character in the host.exe

It is a bomberman game for 4 players by the way. any help or guidance will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance, guys.
Mike Inel
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 01:25
I pinged gatorhex's ip address and i get a reply...

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