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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Blitzwerks Terrain Still Available?

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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 5th Dec 2016 04:05

Is it still for sale, or downloadable somewhere, or is it one of those now free relics that a few people might share among friends?

I never used it, so I was wondering what the community opinion on the advantages of Blitzwerks terrains were versus, say, terrains modeled in Blender or something. I already know how to do texture splatting with shaders, but wasn't sure if BT offered some sort of LOD action or something worth pursuing.

I have also been considering just dropping DBPro altogether and moving to AppGameKit, but I'm not sure of the pros and cons there either. (Are the terrains shaping up nicely in AppGameKit?)

I generally seem to have trouble keeping up, as I'm still 10 years behind the rest of the word in my ablilities. LoL
It's still fun to code, tho'!
Send your parents to noisy sprite demo hell... enter the D-Zone
Chris Tate
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Posted: 5th Dec 2016 15:59 Edited at: 5th Dec 2016 16:03
Last time I checked, Blitzwerks Terrain was the best terrain system available for DBPro. With frustum culling which improves speed by preventing DirectX from rendering parts of the terrain which are off screen, auto smoothing of jagged edges on in accurate heightmaps by averaging to its level of detail (LOD) system which allows parts of the terrain which are far away from the camera to be efficiently optimized for performance.

The tool provides a great deal of features for building a 'terrain' based game in a hurry. The free version does not include useful features such as real time modification and unlimited terrains (Only 1 allowed in the free version)

Pros:
Easy to learn
Good Performance
Fast level development
Limited programming required

Cons:
It is difficult to use shaders with it (Texturing options are limited)
It is dated. The level of detail is below Today's standards.
With the exception of hills, a heightfield terrain is not good for mountains or cliffs.
Difficult to develop with cave support.

I'd say conduct research on the type of small games which sell well in the market right now; and use that to help you decide between AppGameKit and DBP. Also consider what you enjoy using, you will struggle to finish a project you do not enjoy working on.

If the terrain issue a major barrier, and you do not have to time to write your own terrain system; make a game which does not need much terrains, if any. Like a space shooter, platformer or a puzzle game
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 6th Dec 2016 00:42 Edited at: 6th Dec 2016 00:43
Hey Chris!
I suppose my goal is to one day build a world at least as good as Skyrim's.

I feel what you're saying about weighing my options here... while the fast money may be in tappity-tap phone apps today, I love recreating nature and open world settings. I have high hopes for LoZ 'Breath of The Wild'... I think Nintendo has taken a cue from Bethesda on the replay value of open-world settings.

By the way, exactly where can one purchase the full version of BT? My google searches are not showing me an order page.
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punkyb
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Posted: 6th Dec 2016 10:59 Edited at: 6th Dec 2016 11:00
@Derek Darkly,

I think there's a basic Blitzwerks version you can try first, I forgot the link but you can try searching it here or google.

There's also version 3 but I'm confused if BlitzTerrain is the same as Blitzwerks Terrain.

Here is the link to the version 3 free version download and thread.

https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/145404

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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 6th Dec 2016 23:24
By the way. which version of DirectX should I be running for this? I've been using 9.0c i think for a very long time now.

I'm still using 'Winders' XP also, hopefully that won't be an issue.
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Ortu
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Posted: 7th Dec 2016 05:50
Typically, June 2010 9.0c is what you are after for DBpro.


A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 7th Dec 2016 12:24 Edited at: 7th Dec 2016 12:31
Ah.... seems I had to find a missing d3xdx9_43.dll before it would run.
Wow the BT demo runs fast, even on my old Dell!

But where can we purchase it? Obviously TGC has no reason to sell it anymore, what about Kaedroho, does he have a place to sell this thing?
Send your parents to noisy sprite demo hell... enter the D-Zone
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 7th Dec 2016 23:40 Edited at: 7th Dec 2016 23:42
So, it looks like Kaedroho released BT to the repository: https://github.com/kaedroho/BlitzTerrain2

However, I downloaded the .ZIP file and I don't see the actual BlitzTerrain.dll file. Was this an oversight, or are we supposed to reconstruct the library from the source material? LoL.... surely someone knows if it's ok to upload the .dll to the forums.
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MadBit
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Posted: 8th Dec 2016 07:59 Edited at: 8th Dec 2016 08:06
Here you have a fresh compile from the current repository.

No guarantee whether it works.

I think you know how to install.
Share your knowledge. It\'s a way to achieve immortality. (Tenzin Gyatso)
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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 8th Dec 2016 12:40
Thanks MadBit!
I've just installed it and now I've run into a missing library: api-ms-win-crt-runtime-|1-1-10.dll

I'll look around the web for it unless someone has it handy.

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MadBit
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Posted: 8th Dec 2016 13:18 Edited at: 8th Dec 2016 13:19
I have compiled the project as it is with VS2015. Have it again compiled with other settings of the run-time library.
Can not test it unfortunately, because I has dbpro not installed anymore.

I have replaced the download, so you can download it again.
Share your knowledge. It\'s a way to achieve immortality. (Tenzin Gyatso)
Pixie-Particle-Engine
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 8th Dec 2016 23:55

MadBit... ur the man!
That compile worked perfect the first time.... if you were a girl I'd kiss ya.

3 cheers for MadBit!!!!!!

Now I'm thinking we need a "Make DarkBASIC Great Again" thread.... get all of these plugins up and running and make it easy for Noobs to experience the full power of the Triforce... er.. of DBPro, rather. (If that's cool with TGC of course.)

Well, if no one else jumps on it, maybe I'll start it in a few weeks.
Send your parents to noisy sprite demo hell... enter the D-Zone
MadBit
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Posted: 9th Dec 2016 06:46
Quote: "if you were a girl I'd kiss ya. "



Quote: "3 cheers for MadBit!!!!!!
"

Thanks.
Share your knowledge. It\'s a way to achieve immortality. (Tenzin Gyatso)
Pixie-Particle-Engine
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 10th Dec 2016 00:47
Lmao!
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Derek Darkly
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Posted: 10th Dec 2016 19:28
Here is quite an odd problem I've run into:
If I try to change the HEIGHTMAP.BMP file in the Media folder of the BT examples it always loads the example heightmap no matter how drastically I edit the image.

I have gone so far as to remove the original image entirely and even empty my windows PREFETCH folder, but it still loads the example height for the land no matter what the .BMP looks like. How is this even possible? LoL

If I try to use a PNG or JPG instead it gives me some sort of image size error. WEIRD!
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 14:41
I've not experienced such a thing. When I change the height field by altering the pixels of that heightmap.bmp file, the structure of the terrain changes as it should. Removing the image as you did would have caused the Blitz Terrain size error. (if the image file does not exist there is no error on the load image line).

Sorry, I have no idea why your problem is occuring.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 17:43 Edited at: 11th Dec 2016 17:45
Oddly enough, it worked today on the first try!
Yesterday I tried for an hour to change the heightmap and it only laughed at me.

Other than these lines appearing, BT seems to be working fine now. I suspect the lines are due to having an outdated graphics card (my PC won't load most shaders.)
Maybe Santa will bring me a new PC.
Send your parents to noisy sprite demo hell... enter the D-Zone

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 21:38
Well I'd be... That is quite an unusual course of events.

Blitz Terrain is so old it would be quite ironic if your graphics card is too dated for it.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 11th Dec 2016 23:48
It's a Dell Dimension 2300 with no upgrades other than a bit of memory I added. A relative dinosaur... I think it came out around the time TGC was getting started. LoL
It's pretty sad... slacking is apparently my greatest skill, else I would have saved up for something acceptable by now.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 17:46
I do not think you'd need a modern PC to create and run your game; perhaps a second hand or new build with 4 or 5 year old specs will do the trick for under $150 if you reuse your current monitor. Well worth it if you can afford to buy one, a newer PC would speed up compile times, FPS and allows you to use better shaders. If you are short on cash you could figure out what you could sell in exchange.
Chris Tate
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Posted: 12th Dec 2016 18:17
Do forgive me if you are simple not interested in getting a new PC, but here are some budget ideas for getting a good PC deal. I do not know where you are located so they may not deliver to your location, but at least you can get an idea of what you could choose from.

pc-tec.co.uk have some decent deals for refurbished systems;

The Dell Optiplex 760 (DT) ... is £69.96 (About $90). Specification , CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo , CPU Speed : 2.0GHZ Minimum. Pretty old but considerably better than your Pentium 4.

You'd need to add a decent GPU to that model. Again no need for a modern GPU, just a budget gaming GPU with at least 2GB of VRAM and Shader 4 support. Shop around for one for about $50.

If you can spend $200 - $300, then consider looking for a prebuilt gaming PC, perhaps second hand.

Post up any deals you find.
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 13th Dec 2016 01:47 Edited at: 13th Dec 2016 01:49
Chris.. my brotha from anotha motha ..... good lookin' out!!
What do you think about one of these ol' Alienwares with Windows 10.... would that work with DBPro?

I am totally into getting a new unit..... it's just that child support has killed my soul for 13 years now. but it's almost over.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 00:34 Edited at: 15th Dec 2016 00:39
Oh my, the expenses of life; I am just about surviving myself purposefully working for less money to focus on my project.

Well I hope your relationship with your child is good and all is well, so that when you advance in age your child will be motivated to give you the support.

So what do I think about the budget Alienware PCs? My first impression is that you would end up paying for name brand and a fancy case than you would for the performance.

The $400 PC you linked to is a definite no no. For the most part un-upgradable and in a small case; not very future proof. Bit of a media PC rather than a true gaming PC. It has an extremely low amount of RAM. Just 4GB (RAM not VRAM). This is not good enough; you'd need at least 8GB of RAM; I would not settle for less than 8GB for my grandma if she was still around.
The only PC I would consider using with less than 4GB with Windows 7 or above is a backup system, it would exist in a dark corner in order to simply store shit, I'd rather not consider to use it to run anything.

Props to Alienware for being able to market such a thing and call it a gaming PC. Unbelievable. It could never run any new AAA title on the market. As an avid YouTube user I can guarantee you'd be crashing the system after a few hours of watching YouTube videos, let along playing games.
Just as an example.
Sometimes DBPRO will use up 1GB to process a complex 3D level as it is loaded. With just 3GB left, a crash is likely to occur because Windows, Chrome, Firefox etc will eat up 3GB of RAM in no time.

If you want to treat yourself and want something to look good in the living room, then I'd definitely go ahead for one of them; preferably an Intel i5 or i7 with 8GB of RAM; 4GB of VRAM.

If this is all for quality gaming experience, general performance and suitability for games development; I'd invest in a more cost effective deal. Consider a laptop if you would not mind moving around with your system; low end laptops are actually just as good as low end desktop these days.

If you can learn build your own PC you will find that the end product will be a lot more cost effective and catered to you; however if you build it then you would have to spend quite a number of hours screwing things in, unpacking and installing Windows; not quite everyone's cup of tea. I did not build my current P.C. because I could not be bothered to plan it and build it at the time, but I regret my lazy attitude because I can tell the vendor installed the cheapest hardware he could find and it often crashes for no foreseeable reason. My last PC I will have not built myself.

If you have never built your own P.C. then I recommend you build at least one; you might find it is easier than you at first imagined. Judging by your budget, it seems like a self made brand new system would be a good investment.

Otherwise pick something with at least the following:

8GB RAM (Very important for running games, lots of apps. If you use lots of web browsing tabs and watch YouTube videos)
Intel i5 or above (if spending more than $400)
4GB VRAM DD5 GeForce or above (Shader model 3 for DBPRO, Shader model 5 for most popular video games)
1TB total harddrive space. (If as low as 500 GB, make sure it is SOLID STATE - Very fast, very reliable)
Windows 10, 8.1 or 7. Not 8.0. XP is lovely but too old now.
Stick to quality name brand hardware: Intel, Dell, NVidia, HP, Lenvono, Samsung, Corsair, Mushkin, Kingston, Crucial, Asus (probably in that order)

Personally I'd skip Alienware; they look cool but meh; its mostly about what's inside that counts.
As for Windows 10, it is good, although I prefer using Windows 7 and 8.1. Get any version from 7 with the exclusion of 8.0.

As a disclaimer this opinion based on personal experiences over the past 15 years. I've had bad experiences and have been told of bad experiences of hardware from the likes of MSi and Acer, however other people may have good experiences with them and bad experiences with the brands I recommended; generally the brands I mentioned do well.. If anyone had a bad experience with any of the companies I recommened please indicate.
Ortu
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 03:53 Edited at: 15th Dec 2016 04:12
Ive had bad experiences with Lenovo on both a laptop and a tablet, would not recommend them. Lots of crashing and performance just doesn't meet what the specs on paper should provide.

We use dell extensively at work: servers, laptops and desktops they are a good value for the price.

Have to agree that Alienware is mostly overpriced junk these days, they've always been overpriced but they give less value for the cost over the years.

Windows 7 was great, but it is already past end of support and will be reaching end of life in another handful of years. 8.1 is solid, especially with classic shell to bring back the start menu, but really at this point I would say just go with 10.

My primary development machine is an older ~2008ish Dell Dimension desktop, i3 3.4ghz 2core, amd hd6870, had 4GB ram for the longest time never really ran into any issues with it except occasionally with very high poly Blender projects. Upgraded it to 6GB last year and did the free upgrade from win 7 home to win 10 home. I like developing on a 'lower' spec machine cus if it runs acceptably there it will do great on a gaming machine.

For gaming I always build custom. I don't have the budget to go top end, but I'm currently running an i5 4core, z97 main board, 16GB ram, Nvidia gtx770, Windows 10 pro. It has no issues running modern games at max settings. Whole thing totalled in around $600 or $700 I think.


A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium
Derek Darkly
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Posted: 15th Dec 2016 13:55
Thanks for the advice guys! I guess I'll skip the Alienware.
I think I can come up with $600-$800 in the next few months if I can lay off the cheeseburgers and slot machines.

Another friend of mine recommended a custom build also.
LoL....I'm so tired of trying to make games only to end up with 3 FPS and pulling my hair out.

(If anyone else has ideas or recommendations don't be shy!)

Thanks again!

Send your parents to noisy sprite demo hell... enter the D-Zone

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