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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / Vehicles Slide with Dark Physics

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Kanda
16
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Joined: 5th Apr 2007
Location: france
Posted: 10th Apr 2007 18:49
Hi Happy TGC users

I made a car and make it works with dark physic. However im not able to make it slide, even running with hi speed and turn quick, it never slide. i tried many stuffs, like frcition v scalin etc. etc. but it doesn't work. Anybody manged to do it ?

Another question, does any DarkPhysics developper could say what the difference between th Height of the wheel and the radius x2 ?
Would be helpfull, the doc is not clear on that...

Thanks
VRMan3D
18
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Joined: 3rd Apr 2005
Location: New England
Posted: 11th Apr 2007 10:09
Hi Kanda,

I've been away from DP for a while, and was going to ask the same question. I get a lift from the drift.... Last I heard (before Christmas - ack) was that the Ageia PhysX engine (what DarkPhysics is based on) doesn't have 'drifting/powersliding' implemented ....yet.... Or at least that's what I gathered when reading through the Ageia C++ examples. Has there been any new developments on powersliding anyone? Or has anyone figured out a way to 'work-around' the sticky flipovers?

Thanks a lot,
-VRMan

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Kanda
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Location: france
Posted: 11th Apr 2007 15:02 Edited at: 11th Apr 2007 15:03
That's sound strange
I m using Aegia for my job (in c++ of cos), i had a look at documentation, they are little more settings about vehicles than the ones we can set in dark physic currently. A few more did appear in lastest Dark Phys beta, but no samples yet.

An alternative mybe would be to handle the car by ourselves, by creating bodies and using joint for wheele and calculating the forces by hand. Sadly for the wheel Aegia is not supporting the cylinder primitive, would have to work with convex or Capsule. And handling the spring can be tricky to set up properly.

Another alternative would be to use Newton dll wrapper from walabber. It seems to work quite fine for vehicle sliding...That's would be sad however as Dark Physics is powerfull...

I keep Aegia for now until the game is advanced enough (handling all menus and other features), then i'll make a choice for the physic.

How far have u been in your experiments?
VRMan3D
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Location: New England
Posted: 12th Apr 2007 02:55
Yep, sorry to say Kanda, but I'm in the exact same boat. I started out using Newton Dynamics for physics before DarkPhysics/Ageia existed, then switched to DarkPhysics because the performance (for non vehicle related projects) just blew Newton away by a long shot. BUT, for vehicles I turned back to Newton, it does a really great job at vehicles, and that's my biggest/only complaint about DarkPhysics is the broken vehicles. Let's face it, without powersliding, the vehicle sim is junk. I suppose if you wanted to write a slow high school driving instruction program it might be ok, but for any high speed racing type game it's awful. Could you imagine if the 'Warthog' in Halo flipped over and crushed you every time you tried to turn? Lol.

But to TGC's credit, it's not their fault. Aegia just doesn't have it working yet, and TGC is tied completely to the Aegia SDK.

If you want I can show you exactly what I'm talking about in the Aegia docs. They don't make it clear (out of embarrassment?) at all, but if you read carefully in one of the examples in C++ it says 'but these commands don't do anything, slipping not implemented yet' or something like that. (TGC offered to let me help refine and improve DP with them, but after I pointed out those things about the vehicle problem, I never heard back hehheh oh well) And we have those same commands in DP but they don't do anything at all unfortunately. They sound impressive and all, but they are just empty function prototypes, trust me.

I'm really very suprised that Aegia hasn't fixed this yet. I kind of held off on my vehicle related projects for a while just hoping for them to fix it, but still nothing. So I'm not holding out anymore and went back to Newton. You'd think for a physics engine like Aegia realistic vehicle drifting would be top priority. /sigh



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Kanda
16
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Joined: 5th Apr 2007
Location: france
Posted: 12th Apr 2007 11:53
Well, in a way, when thinking more about it, it's not so surprising. Think about thye even don't support Cylinder primitive (Aegia)

As u mentioned it's a powerfull API (and Dark physics as well) but some few very important features are misssings, that sounds crazy !

Gonna probably switch back Newton too.

Good luck for ur projects.
Kanda
VRMan3D
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Location: New England
Posted: 13th Apr 2007 05:07
By the way, what is 'crazy'? What do I keep saying that is crazy hehheh, I honestly don't understand if you mean I said something that sounds like crazy talk to you. Just curious.

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Kanda
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Posted: 13th Apr 2007 13:33 Edited at: 13th Apr 2007 13:33
oh nono, sorry if i was not clear please don't misunderstand me, i didn't meant that, i meant Aegia is sadly crazy, for having powerfull API with so important features missing

Regards
VRMan3D
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Location: New England
Posted: 13th Apr 2007 16:14
Oh ok bud, I figured it was something like that but wantd to make sure. Yeah you're right, it's very very suprising to me as well.

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Kanda
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Location: france
Posted: 13th Apr 2007 16:19
Btw what tool do you use to setup your cars ? Simple text ini file ? Custom editor ? Or the tool made by the current newton dll developper ? other ?
Kanda
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Location: france
Posted: 15th Apr 2007 15:03 Edited at: 15th Apr 2007 15:08
Checked Dark Physics changes of version 1.01. Here are some new commands :

Vehicle

· set up extra options for wheels providing more control over properties
· phy set vehicle longitudinal tire force function ID, wheel, extremum slip#, extremum value#, asymptote slip#, asymptote value#, stiffness factor#
· phy set vehicle lateral tire force function ID, wheel, extremum slip#, extremum value#, asymptote slip#, asymptote value#, stiffness factor#
· phy set vehicle wheel flags ID, wheel, flags

These functions are what is required for sliding. However when trying to compile them, the compiler does not know these functions. After checking over internet, it's required for make ur vehicle slide. How to make them works ? I tried to install / uninstall the Dark physics 101 and 102 beta several times, no ways to make these function accepted by compiler.

Any idea ?
Dark Angel_1246
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Joined: 7th Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posted: 15th Apr 2007 23:27 Edited at: 15th Apr 2007 23:30
That’s because there incomplete commands as for as I know! I believe TGC has misinformed us on these parts and Dark Physics it’s self.

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lava man
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Location: west allis wisconsin
Posted: 13th May 2007 20:11
what if you build your car up of multiple parts
i mean like load a wheel model and a axle and a body and so forth
and instead of using the vehicle commands
use joint to connect the wheels and body and stuff and
apply angular volocity to the wheels to make it move
thats what i am working on now because
friction has more affect and you can actuly slide
with the right friction settings on the car and on
the ground.
yha its more work but it gives you better results.

good times
RUCCUS
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Location: Canada
Posted: 13th May 2007 20:40
Not DP related but;

You can get basic car sliding with 2 vectors, 1 going in the direction your car is facing, 1 in the old direction of the car, before any turns. Add the vectors / normalize them, and add the resulting vector coordinates to the car's position, and it'll slide. The sharper the turn, the larger the slide.

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