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Geek Culture / Gliese 581c: "Earth-like planet" - Possible existance of ET

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game master 07
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 01:56
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If we figured out how to go just half the speed of light it would only
take 40 years to get there. I think at even a quarter of the speed of light it would still only take about 60 or 70 years? I am not sure about the quarter part. I am not so good with math!

gm07
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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 02:56
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It's 80.

But we aren't even close to being that advanced. A quarter of the speed of light is still amazingly fast.
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 04:25
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ya, even a 1/20 the speed of light would be an amazing achievement

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Steve J
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 04:31
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I believe thats somewhere around 30,000 mph or so haha

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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game master 07
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 05:54 Edited at: 27th Apr 2007 05:57
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Does anyone know how fast an ion engine can go? What about a fusion engine? Those are technology that are within are grasp. In fact they already made an ion engine probe! I think there were sending it to Pluto. They have also come really close to making fusion power. I saw a thing about it on the discovery channel. The only problem is that they can only get it to last for about a minute. Fusion power is basically making an artificial sun in a small vacuumed sealed room!Another power source that could get us there is ZERO POINT ENERGY. I think that is just harnesing the power from the actual coldness of space itself!

gm07
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 06:08
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Quote: "I believe thats somewhere around 30,000 mph or so haha"


I *think* you mean 30,000 miles per second, no?

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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 06:57
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Ion engines are not that great. They actually take a really long time to speed up. But once they do, they are a lot faster than liquid fuel technology, that's for sure. But it won't get us 20 lightyears within a reasonable amount of time.
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 08:03
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Quote: "ZERO POINT ENERGY"


that doesnt make any sense... if something is at "zero point" then it has no energy, therefore it cannot exist...

and slayer simon is right about:

Quote: "on engines are not that great. They actually take a really long time to speed up."


very true, but their max speeds are pretty good. they are faster than our current rockets.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 00:01
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Quote: "ZERO POINT ENERGY"


You've watched to much stargate......

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 00:12
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Quote: "It was 20 lightyears away not 5 billion! I am not sure how many miles that is maby it was 5 billion miles not 5 billion lightyears away!"

Nope, it said 5 billion lightyears from a very unreliable source, I know it's 20 lightyears away.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 00:13
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So have you to recognize that. I am a big fan (or used to be) and watched four whole series. And I didn't spot that.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 13:13
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20 lightyears = 118260000000000 miles (if I figured it out correctly). So basically if you round it, you can call it 118 trillion miles. Much more that 5 billion miles

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UnderLord
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 18:02
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I have the whole series expect season 10 and now im moving onto atlantis(SP?) since they are taking the regular stargate off the air

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 22:53
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I was mostly just elluding to our destructive nature. We kill each other every second of every day, we destroy our planet with our technology, we breed at a rate unlike almost any other species on the planet. And we're extremely defensive, I mean what's to say we wouldn't just blow up ET on contact. We really are a race of beings that doesn't take too kindly to things we don't understand... it really could be argued that we're earth's worst virus. But who knows, maybe these are just the pitfalls of intelligent life, and aliens will view us as mere shadows of their own civilizations. But if I were an alien looking down at humans from space, I wonder if I might just say "forget the bipeds, I'm going to talk to the whales and the dolphins" lol.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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SageTech
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 23:14
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One thing that always seems to get at me is the assumption that life will arise in only earth-like planets. I see no reason why things couldn't have evolved differently, with or without water.


Battle Legacy: Online Third Person Shooter
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 23:19
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Well, I think the right temperature is pretty essential, but apart from that, you are right. I don't see why life has to be carbon based, or rely on water. If it can grow by feeding on things, can think or have reflexes, etc, but not be carbon based, why would it not be life?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 00:47
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Matt, we're the Aliens from War of the World's then I can see your point though, we are very destructive creatures.
Sage Tech - Apparently, Mars might be suitable for life forms, or at least must have been suitable.

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hessiess
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 01:57
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Quote: "They have also come really close to making fusion power. I saw a thing about it on the discovery channel. The only problem is that they can only get it to last for about a minute. Fusion power is basically making an artificial sun in a small vacuumed sealed room!"


a problam with hidrogen fusan is the huge amount of nutrons it releses, destroys the structure of the reactor.

with the enormas sise of the universe it would be unlicly that intelagent life hasent evolved somwere elce
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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 02:01
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Nice spelling
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 02:30
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^ pointless post ^

Some people don't speak english as their main language, and some people have difficulties reading and writing. It's not like he's posting in 1337

Hessiess appears to be a very skilled 3d artist as well, he's given me a few good pointers. Show a small amount of respect.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 03:07 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 03:11
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Quote: "Nice spelling"



Actually he is Dylexic? Or is it dylexia? Oh well either way he suffers from the inability to spell things correctly, and not for a lack of intelligence he is actually a smart person, it just takes awhile to spell check everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia

Ahh google corrected me its Dyslexia. CLICK THE LINK AND LEARN SOMETHING....

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 03:35
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Calm down and throw away the hostility. I wasn't making fun of him and certainly was not calling him dumb. People post about each other's spelling all the time which is wasy I'm upset you came to such a conclusion. Maybe I should've put a happy face beside it.
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 04:12
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I think the main reason they look for planets like earth, and they search for water in particular, is because all of the life forms we know to exist need water to survive. It gives scientists searching for life a stepping-stone for their search. But it would be pretty neat to meet a creature that relies on something else, hehe. We better just hope it's friendly, lol.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Evil Star
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 11:59
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Hmmmm...imagine a xenon based life form, theoretically if it caught fire it would have the same effect as a xenon flash lamp (extremly bright light)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8749/evilstarjb5.jpg
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UnderLord
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 17:30
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Quote: "Calm down and throw away the hostility. I wasn't making fun of him and certainly was not calling him dumb. People post about each other's spelling all the time which is wasy I'm upset you came to such a conclusion. Maybe I should've put a happy face beside it."


Those people usually get noob slapped.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:02
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I have to disagree with you there. You are simply wrong. I won't argue the case further.
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hessiess
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:23 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 08:56
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sorry- a little off topic

i've switched to firefox witch has a spell checker. my dyslexia is the resen why i have this computer, witch is to help me right stuff in class. without it i wouldn't have ever found out about tgc forms, witch was were i found out about blender!. this form is alot more welcoming than blenderartist's. i tend to get eather little or absolutely no response to posts or just get complaints about my spelling.

there isnt any resen why life may exist without water somewhere, we just haven't found it yet!

im one of a few people in my school taking AS physics

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 01:20 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 01:51
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EDITED, decided not to post this. Thought it would start an argument and ruin the thread.

I have no signature...
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 22:55 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 22:56
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Quote: "I have to disagree with you there. You are simply wrong. I won't argue the case further."

Not necessarily noob slapped, they often get told off by people like me, if you found the person was dislexic you might be in for a guilt trip (as this guy is)

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 1st May 2007 03:20
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Why would I feel guilty?
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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 1st May 2007 12:48
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it would take 20 years to get there even if we had light speed technology, and you cant go faster than that, but maybe in the future we might have the technology to go faster so we can escape the earth while the sun blows up (or is it implode?)

and i dont think there will be life on the planet, and if there was it probably wouldnt have DNA or anything like we know of, so we have no idea what we would expect...


Mods, its 500x100, so you cant tell me its bigger than 600x120
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Moondog
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Posted: 1st May 2007 16:45
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actually, the sun will eventually devour the earth, before it ever collapses. sorry, no star trek explosion with super super shock wave, our sun is just going to collapse. but yah, the sun will grow large enough that earth will be long gone before the sun dies. which means life on earth will die out long before the earth is even eaten by the sun, lol...so id say we should migrate to another system before then. although, it would be cool to witness an event like that, because after a while the sun's gravity would start to pull the earth in at a faster rate, would make for some great popcorn watching.

and again, you can't say nothing can happen because our minds our limited to what we can comprehend. everyone talks about how there could or couldn't be 'life' on this planet or any...

but let me ask you, what is the definition of 'life'? if anyone watched TNG episode 'the measure of man', you'll see what I'm getting at

MOONDOG


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 1st May 2007 19:54
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Quote: "but maybe in the future we might have the technology to go faster "


Then we'd just go back in time

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st May 2007 20:18
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That's all theory though...although it might be something to test...but to be honest, I'd want to be able to go forward in time, get next week's lottery numbers, ooooh I could be Gazillionaire!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:38
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Quote: "get next week's lottery numbers"

Which of course would also require going back in time to purchase the ticket. And of course this would be reliable if the lottery wasn't fixed.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:47
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Of course, I could also go back in time and stop Lincoln from being assasinated and acquire a chest of gold for my efforts...Then be executed for being a Witch...I mean how else would they explain time travel?

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Venge
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Posted: 1st May 2007 23:32 Edited at: 1st May 2007 23:33
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Quote: "I could also go back in time and stop Lincoln from being assasinated "


lol, as long as I have a thread about time travel...If you went back in time to save Lincoln, then you would grow up in a world in which Lincoln was never assassinated. So you would have no reason be to go back in time in the first place.

Your signature has not been deleted by a mod because it was not bigger than 600x120...
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Moondog
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 00:16
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well, there is the chaos theory, time will never follow the same path twice...so, it doesn't matter what you do in the past if you were to go back in time, if you did anything. also you have to realize, our existence is based off of time, we live in our notion of time...and the concept of 'time' is still a theory in itself

moondog


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 00:28
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Quote: "then you would grow up in a world in which Lincoln was never assassinated. So you would have no reason be to go back in time in the first place"
Who cares about the world when I've got my chest of gold reward?

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Venge
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 01:31
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completely missed the point, but oh well

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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Quote: "actually, the sun will eventually devour the earth, before it ever collapses. sorry, no star trek explosion with super super shock wave, our sun is just going to collapse. but yah, the sun will grow large enough that earth will be long gone before the sun dies."

star trek, thats a crap show, and i meant that ^ that the sun will get bigger and bigger and engulf the earth, but it will explode or something when it goes back into itself


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Venge
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yea, in about 5 billion years the sun will grow large enough to engulf the earth. Better start saving up for your apartment on Mars...

Your signature has not been deleted by a mod because it was not bigger than 600x120...
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Jrock
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 02:46
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But back to the idea of ion engines, what if we (this is in 40 years or so) equipped a rocket with ions engines and solar sails, shot it towards the sun and have it do a solar gravity assist, and shoot the rocket towards 581c? Plus, with the effects of space travel and the fact that you would be going about a million miles an hour, wouldn't the crew of this rocket only age a couple years?

Practice makes perfect. But if nobody is perfect, why practice?
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 03:00
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Quote: "But back to the idea of ion engines, what if we (this is in 40 years or so) equipped a rocket with ions engines and solar sails, shot it towards the sun and have it do a solar gravity assist, and shoot the rocket towards 581c? Plus, with the effects of space travel and the fact that you would be going about a million miles an hour, wouldn't the crew of this rocket only age a couple years?"

Well you still wouldn't be able to exceed lightspeed, so the minimum would be 20 years, which wouldn't be realistic, I'd say more like half lightspeed, which would be 40 years. As for the non-aging theory, that was a theory from "Ender's Game", but I don't know if it would really work. I don't understand why it would slow down aging, but no ones ever tried to explain it to me . Also, to add, and note that I've learned about Quantum Physics for about 2 hours total so far (we just started studying it), but isn't there something about turning an electron on some side of the universe will turn one in the opposite direction on the other side of the universe instantly, not limited by light speed? I may be completely wrong on that, but if I'm not, that means that we would have the ability to communicate instantly (like with the ansible in "Ender's Game") anywhere in the universe by turning these electrons in sequence like a sort of morse code. Like I said, I have no idea what I'm talking about and am only developing theories from what I heard someone mention in a video, which I didn't understand anyway .


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jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 03:02 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 03:05
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@Jrock: as we said before, ion engines take a LONG time to get up to speed. (many years infact) so the crew would be very aged... and since it is such a far journey, you would need multiple generations to get there... even WITH the slow-aging theory, the people dont age as much as you think. you have to go close to the speed of light to slow aging significantly.

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Slayer Simon
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 07:44 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 07:44
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Dude that's not Ender's Game, the theory that time slows down when going faster is Einstein's theory of reletivity.

A couple flaws with Jrock's theory is:

1: we don't have solar sails or even know if they're possible. (They probably are, but that's a maybe)

2. Going close enough to the sun to get a good enough gravity boost would melt and destroy any ship built with our current technology.

3. Even if it worked, it's still not fast enough. You wouldn't come close to even half the speed of light.
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Ric
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 13:04
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Quote: "Our sun is only about 22 billion years old, and will only last another 5 billion years..."


Moondog - couldn't help noticing what you said. Where did you get that from? I think most people agree that the sun is about 5 billion years old (and by billion I mean 1 000 000 000 - just incase there are any non-British Europeans here).

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Moondog
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lol, so i got my info from wikpedia, and i got my information confused, blah...so i edited it. The sun is roughly 4.57 billion years old, and has roughly another 4-5+x billion years till it dies.

it also seems i was wrong about the earth being engulfed...i was going off a thesis paper i read about 5 years ago about the life of 'sol'(our star) it seems that the sun will loose mass and cause the earth's orbit to be pushed out, but our ocean's will still boil, and everything on earth will die. then over a few billion years the sun will shrink into a white dwarf and die

did you know the sun contains 99% of the mass in our solar system? that flabergasted me, lol

moondog


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 19:53
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Quote: "As for the non-aging theory"

If you are gonna go that fast, then you will go forward in time. So when you arrive there (say it does take 40 years), you might only be about 30 years older.

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Lanfear
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 23:43
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Quote: "But back to the idea of ion engines, what if we (this is in 40 years or so) equipped a rocket with ions engines and solar sails, shot it towards the sun and have it do a solar gravity assist, and shoot the rocket towards 581c?"



Even if we managed to get there without dying of old age first, would humans be able to sustain our lifeform on 581c? Assuming there is liquid water present, and despite our uncertainty about the atmosphere, wouldn't the gravity (2 x more than Earth's) have an adverse effect on humans? I'm sure we could adapt eventually? If so, how long would it take? Can you imagine the initial reaction if we simply couldn't jump as high as on Earth? Strange.
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