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Geek Culture / Design your own language: What would your dream language look like?

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 18th May 2007 10:03 Edited at: 18th May 2007 10:05
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Hello. I am taking a poll and would like to know, what your dream language would look like. How the syntax would be, and more information. It would ideally be used for scripting, but would not be unheard of for use in programming.
I ask that you post examples of the language as well, and explain it as best you can.

My dream language
Mine looks some what like ASM. But, many people find that confusing.
Syntax is simple. The example shows it. Delimiter is the commonly used "," and function names may not have spaces in them. There are no "procedures" (functions, methods) in this language (Unlike ASM). And is strictly command to opcode based (pretending that there is actually an instruction set like this).
Comments are denoted with a ";". Segments are denoted with a ".". My language is not case sensitive (I just prefer to type in lowercase).


Example of continuously adding.


Example of segments.


Cheers,

-db

PS: I hope I didnt leave anything out in this post.

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Sly
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Posted: 18th May 2007 11:01
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I'd rather do it this way,like i said on MSN.

Quote: "Putvariable Value,Variable
Label:
If Variable > 0{
Variable = Variable - 1
}endif
Jumpto Label"


-Sly
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 18th May 2007 11:25 Edited at: 18th May 2007 11:26
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@Sly
I ask that you be a bit more descriptive (Edit when convenient, if you would please. ) Thanks for your contribution though.

@Everybody
Does it help that I will be making the chosen "language" into a portion of the DAP plugin? (Which costs $20 (USD)) I also award the designer a free copy of DAP. (Not advertising, please dont see it as such)


Cheers,

-db

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 18th May 2007 11:35
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The perfect language?

Unless someone can make something like that, I'm uninterested.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 18th May 2007 12:12 Edited at: 18th May 2007 12:14
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My one friend is taking a writing/English major in college. She actually had to design her own language with all her own rules and mechanics. She said hers ended up being about 250 + words. Kinda interesting, but that would drive me crazy.

As for programming language... I dunno. I think DBP is awesome

(fanboy)

I have no signature...
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 18th May 2007 12:18 Edited at: 18th May 2007 12:19
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I'd have to say that i'd make my dream language a little bit more of a lower-level than basic with some other influences. Lets see if I can make this work .



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flibX0r
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Posted: 18th May 2007 12:28
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C++ without the STD libraries. Oh wait, I can do that already

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Little whorls have lesser whorls and so on to viscosity. - Lewis F. Richardson
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David R
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Posted: 18th May 2007 14:26
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Quote: "C++ without the STD libraries."


What have you got against std:: ?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Satchmo
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Posted: 18th May 2007 14:51
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I like my sig.
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 18th May 2007 15:05 Edited at: 18th May 2007 15:09
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Mine would be very much like C++ I think, but with a few changes. For a start, it wouldn't be so strongly typed, and typecasting would perhaps be a little easier. I think also, if it was for a scripting language, it would compile to bytecode, because then it's not a totally seperate exe, and also it's more portable.

It would be really low level, but with libraries have the capabilities for high level stuff, so obviously support pointers, etc. It would be OO, I don't see me making anything truely good without classes, heh, and I think it would have it's own plugins system, where it can have it's own "dll"s, writen in it's own code.

All in all, basically what I'm trying to achieve with my scripting language

[edit]

Also, everything would be in functions, unless of course it's an enum, class, struct, global variable etc.

Speaking of global variables, it would also really have to depend on the {}s for the stack, so, you don't exactly get "local" variables just in functions, but in every {} scope.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 18th May 2007 16:02
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Hmmm. Good topic. Personally something inbetween HyperCard (old Mac language similarish to VB) and Div (old 2D games language similar to DB).

Basically the syntax of HyperCard was amazing. A lot of the time if you were stuck then just writing the command as an english sentence worked. If I remember rightly you could even have spaces in variable names. eg. "really big var name = small var + medium var" would work (I think...). Nice. I used Hypercard on the Mac around 1993 for my final year project in Uni, and it totally blew away any visual language that existed. Think only VB for Dos existed at the time that was anything like it (look it up, VB for Dos was like the one between Quick Basic and VB for Windows. Looked like Dos, but had a lot of the classic VB functionality), so obviously HyperCard was the dogs once I saw it. I've still got the book (god it smells *old*) and even though the examples don't look as English as I remember I'm sure my project was better (shame I can't remember where it is now). Still an example is "if last char of it = return then delete last char of it". Damn loved that language... even if it was exclusively for Macs....

Div on the other hand didn't have the greatest syntax. However the way it handled objects was brilliant. You could basically knock up a 2D shoot em up in no time whatsoever. Essentially all the complicated stuff like sprite manipulation (rotation, zooming, collision etc) was completely taken care of. You changed certain attributes and it would go off and do it for you, and keep doing it without you worrying. For example, if you set the main spaceship to move forward at speed 5 then it would trundle off at speed 5 until you told it to do something different. So it would keep going after setting it. No more code, it just carried on. Then you would say if the fire button is pressed then create a new bullet object (which you designed already) at the position of the space ship. Set it's direction as the same as the spaceship and speed as twice the spaceship and watch it zoom away. With no more code. You could also put code into an object, which would kick off under certain conditions (lower shield value if hit enemy). Basically brilliant for loads of stuff going on at once without worrying about anything in the main game loop. Reminds me of something like VB. Of course this is fairly straight forward if you know what you are doing in DB, but the simplicity of DIV was brilliant.

Of course both languages had their problems. HyperCard, for instance, totally saved the current state when you exited and would start up at the same point (like using MS Access) so you would need to code in routines to start games from scratch. It also worked on a stacking system (click the about button and a window appears saying about the program. Popping the stack takes you back to the previous window. But the stack always exists, so don't keep adding windows...) which created it's own problems and unique coding exercises to make a certain method work. Div's great object handling was also a weakness. You sometimes missed things because code could be hidden away a bit, and you had to remember to cover yourself. eg. if an object goes off the screen then kill it. Not so easy to remember when it just wanders off by itself.

Anyways, mix the 2 and I would be happy

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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dab
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Posted: 18th May 2007 16:37 Edited at: 18th May 2007 16:38
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I actually like the PHP syntax a whole lot.



Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
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Manic
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Posted: 18th May 2007 16:41
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i quite like actionscript as a language, its got some neat ways to reference objects.

I don't have a sig, live with it.
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Killswitch
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Posted: 18th May 2007 17:35
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I would like Ruby's syntax, with Python's forced indentation.

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
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Diggsey
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Posted: 18th May 2007 19:07
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I think VB.net with the speed and power (and pointers) of c++ would be great! Also, there should be no managed data types, just data types with functions and events in.

In the premade data types, the full source should be available for them. The forms designer should be fully customizeable, and all code for rendering controls should be shown.


VISIT MY WEBSITE!
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zenassem
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Posted: 18th May 2007 20:33
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I find C the easiest to use. Unfortunately it's not the best way to have reuseable, flexible, adaptable code. At least not the way I use it. LOL!

I can manage in C++, but the more abstract the problem gets... the more I use C as my crutch and I my code becomes unmanageable as I near anything resembling an Engine. Even in sticking with 2D.

I bog down at effectively coding DirectX API wrappers, and although after a year of working with Lamothe's "Tricks of the 3D Game Programming GURUS" and a few volumes of the "GEMs" series, I came out with a basic game engine that was "PISS" in comparison to DarkBasic's engine. So I don't think I'm going to be coding the greatest 3D engine ever anytime soon regardless of what language I use.

My focus really needs to be at higher level coding, logic, AI, game-play. Not creating Game Engines. So I love Darkbasic as a core language. The only problem I have with it, is the logic code can spiral out of control real fast, as the program increases in complexity. Especially with the limitations on user-defined types, and just like C no OOP structure. So I think my ideal language would have to be a form of scripting language.

I am trying Python right now. I also had a look at Angelscript and GameMonkey. They all seem a bit similar, but since my background was in C/C++ it looked as though Python is the right fit. After I learn how to do more with it, I might have a better idea of what I would like to change. Right now though, I had to say Python is looking like a winner.

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 18th May 2007 20:33
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In my dream language types are a lot easier to handle.

Instead of using unsigned char, unsigned int, and unsigned long int, I would use these instead:

nat8 onebyte
nat16 oneword
nat32 doubleword
nat64 quadropleword
nat128 verybig

Simply use nat for natural number and then the number of bits. Similarly, signed numbers would be decalred like this:

int8 onebyte
int16 oneword
int32 doubleword
int64 quadropleword
int128 verybig

And floating point numbers like this:

flp32 doubleword
flp64 quadropleword

Booleans like this:

boo thisisaboolean
boo thisisanotherboolean

Beyond this place there be dragons.
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hessiess
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Posted: 18th May 2007 20:41
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somthing dead easy for somone like me. and have a bult in spellchecker!

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th May 2007 00:56
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mine



http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 19th May 2007 01:26
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DB user 2006+,

If you're going to make a plug in scripting language for DB/ DBPRO - whateer, then why not use the same basic syntax/rules that DBpro uses ? This combined with a few embellishments thrown in could work well..

If you think about it from the users perspective, what's going to attract the most business ? A dialect that 'resembles' db/Dbpro, or some custom asm variant ?.


PlayBasic.com Presents - Ballistic Blasters - Opening May 2007 - Fear Optional!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th May 2007 01:28
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Mine



Yeah I'm a suck up...but to be honest I can't think of anything that would do me better...Perhaps a cross between Dark Basic pro...theoretically I'd just need to build a Torque like .exe in DBP and use LUA or DarkScript for scripting...simple

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 19th May 2007 04:38 Edited at: 19th May 2007 04:39
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a 2d game maker complete with level editor. And pixel perfect collision...
Not like game maker and really easy to learn commands.

Your signature has been deleted by a moderator because this joke is getting old.
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Jack
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Posted: 19th May 2007 05:44 Edited at: 19th May 2007 05:45
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This is called "Fu**#" :


activate the d*mn sync
set a high d*mn syncrate


make a fu**ing good game(better than everything before)

start a fu**ing loop

play the fu**ing good game

d*mn sync
end a fu**ing loop

[/center]
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:01
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@NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
A useless post, eh?

@Agent Dink
So, your vote is with a BASIC language similiar to, or exactly like DBP?

@Zombie 20
I see. Can you describe this language more? Does it have OOP, is it case sensitive? Did you not have quotes around text for a reason? How are variables created? Automatically? Thanks.

@flibX0r
Why on earth wouldn't you want the standard libraries? What have you got against them?

@fxgamer
A useless post then?

@Zotoaster
Would you mind showing some examples? This is really well explained. ^_^

@Dazzag
That was really well formulated. I will research both these languages, but I also ask that you show an example of, say, what might be a "hello world" in your program, or if types (structs, classes, etc) could be used, show that? Very well formulated indeed.

@dabip
PHP eh? I am learning PHP, but must say I favor javascript in terms of syntax.

@Manic
Actionscript? I will look it up and see what I can find out.

@Killswitch
I must go search up Ruby as well then.

@Diggsey
Would you mind showing an example?

@zenassem
ok. Examples?

@Code Dragon
Thats very interesting and similiar to my "u8-64", "s8-64" series of variables, I like how you represent floats however, and will internally name the opcodes to what you have there. Could you show more examples of your language?

@hessiess
I'm not making a "make game" command.... Especially not a "make halo 4-7" command. So, could you explain what would be "dead easy" for you?

@Hobgoblin Lord
I never expected a post like that from you....

@Kevin Picone
Thinking about this from the users perspective? You mean like how I just made a thread and asked what the user would want in a scripting language? Or even in their dream language? I fail to see how that isn't looking for what the user would want. I don't want to do what Lee Bamber did with his language. I want to ask what kind of language you would use for your games. I take your vote is a "BASIC" but what would your dream language be? (You created PlayBASIC, didn't you?)

@Seppuku Arts
Heh. DBPro then?

@aluseus GOD
Did you read the first post, or even the title? You just shortly described a better game maker.

@Jack
Very unnecessary post.


Cheers,

-db

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blah569
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:16
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This is the syntax for a old language that I never made:



That is just a basic snippet.

Been programming in php for a long time now. C++, Java, Dark BASIC Pro, etc are fun as well.
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flibX0r
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:35
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@David R & DB user 2006+

I just feel that the std:: namespace didn't actually add anything to the language that was really needed. I prefer the old school C libraries and I implement them into my own classes. And don't get me started on the String class, it's just pure filth

Big whorls have little whorls which feed on their velocity,
Little whorls have lesser whorls and so on to viscosity. - Lewis F. Richardson
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:37
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oh... That. I thought you meant recreating "printf", "cout", "cin", etc. That wouldn't be too much fun... I know, i've tried it. I now realise I need to use ASM.

Cheers,

-db

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ionstream
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:39
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Theres nothing wrong with the String class

That's not as bad as you think you said.
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flibX0r
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Posted: 19th May 2007 08:48
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Other than being bloated, slow and using a bastardisation of the bitshift operators?

Big whorls have little whorls which feed on their velocity,
Little whorls have lesser whorls and so on to viscosity. - Lewis F. Richardson
Also, my website has no content. But it looks perty
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ionstream
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Posted: 19th May 2007 09:21
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Better than those akward va_ macros! Also the bitshift stuff is used more for streams in C++ than bitshifting, in fact I think C# does something similar. Vectors to the rock!

That's not as bad as you think you said.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 09:28 Edited at: 19th May 2007 09:29
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Quote: "Better than those akward va_ macros!"

Which are of course nothing to do with it?

Quote: "Also the bitshift stuff is used more for streams in C++ than bitshifting"

No.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th May 2007 11:47
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@ionstream
When you split one atom, it creates a chain reaction across many other atoms. Let that be converted to responding in a thread.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th May 2007 12:26
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Quote: "What have you got against std"


I thought everyone knew about STD's

A little but more on topic ... My preferred language would be like DBP, but with shortcuts like in c++ (a >> 6 instead of a = a >> 6 and so on) and more stable with less bugs.

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Benjamin
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Quote: "but with shortcuts like in c++ (a >> 6 instead of a = a >> 6 and so on)"

What? You can't just write a >> 6, that won't do anything.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th May 2007 12:41
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@Lost in Thought
You mean like "a += b", and "a++"?

@Benjamin
Have you tried it with multiple compilers before saying it doesn't work? I haven't tried it, and I am not saying you are wrong, rather, that I doubt that it was tested.

Cheers,

-db

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 12:42
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Quote: "Have you tried it with multiple compilers before saying it doesn't work?"

I tried it with VC++ and it gave me a warning.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th May 2007 12:43 Edited at: 19th May 2007 12:44
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I could in visual c++ 6.0

It will shift the bits of a to the right 6 places. 0_o of course it has been a while and it may not actually be >> for bit shifting like it is in DBP.

[edit] And @ DB user 2006+: Yes thats what I mean.

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Benjamin
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Quote: "It will shift the bits of a to the right 6 places. 0_o of course it has been a while and it may not actually be >> for bit shifting like it is in DBP."

Yes it is, but you have to use >>= to do what you want.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th May 2007 13:19
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Actually are correct. You can do a >> 6 without the = if you are just printing expressions, which is what I was thinking of when typing that. It's been so long ( 3 years almost now) that I forgot you needed the = to actually change the value of a. In any case the math= shortcuts is what I was talking about.

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Benjamin
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Quote: "In any case the math= shortcuts is what I was talking about."

My bad funkydude.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 19th May 2007 13:51
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Here's an example of mine:



As you can see, very similar to C++, but with some minor changes.

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Arkheii
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:00 Edited at: 19th May 2007 14:02
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My dream language would be OO, and syntactically similar to Java or C#. But to keep up with the times it should have threading and multiprocessor support tightly integrated into the language.

@flibX0r: I've been reading about people who dropped stdlib and swear by http://boost.org/, but I haven't tried it myself so I can't say any more about it.

Anyway, the newer OOP languages are far more consistent and elegant than C++, language-wise. I would have condemned Java if they hadn't introduced C++ generics in JDK 5.

@Zotoaster: That's essentially Java/C# with the main() method outside a class

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:06
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Actually, it's alot more like C++ to Java and C#, apart from the fact that it compiles to bytecode, so in that sense it's a little like Java heh.

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Arkheii
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:12 Edited at: 19th May 2007 14:19
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Hehe, I mentioned C# and Java since the methods are coded within the class, not separated into .h and .cpp files the way C++ wants it. Though honestly, constructors should not have an explicit return type (since they should implicitly return an instance of themselves).

edit: Oops, I'd forgotten that you can instantiate classes in C++ implicitly. In that case, I can see why you were looking to have typed constructors, but when instantiating a class using the 'new' operator...



I hope that explains it...

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:16
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Quote: "Hehe, I mentioned C# and Java since the methods are coded within the class, not separated into .h and .cpp files the way C++ wants it."

You do understand why header files are used, right?

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:19
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Quote: "since they should implicitly return an instance of themselves"


Yeah, you could choose to type it as the class you are in, or anything else.

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Arkheii
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Posted: 19th May 2007 14:28
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Quote: "You do understand why header files are used, right?"


Yes, because the C++ compiler requires the class definitions (symbols) in the .h files. With C++'s origins being rooted down to C, it shares the same flaw that .h files are inlined whenever you #include them.

The simplest problem would be when A includes B and B includes C, A is effectively including C. This _will_ introduce problems later on.

I'm sure you would understand why both C# and Java use symbolic import statements rather than buggy #include preprocessor directives. In that case, problems caused by inlining the header files won't hold.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th May 2007 15:44
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Quote: "@Hobgoblin Lord
I never expected a post like that from you...."


Have to understand that TD# makes all that darn media you need also, you know that awesome tank you envision that looks like a shoebox with an orange on top after you model it.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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David R
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Posted: 19th May 2007 16:44
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Quote: "The simplest problem would be when A includes B and B includes C, A is effectively including C. This _will_ introduce problems later on."


Problems such as what? Unless you go around designing diamonds of death for fun, it should turn out OK provided you don't do something stupid.

And even if you do create something dumb like a criss-cross relationship of classes (e.g. A has a member of type B, and B has a member of type A, and they both need to include each other) you can usually get around it quite easily - for instance, just declaring a blank instance of the class prior to the includes, and the problem is essentially gone


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Arkheii
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Posted: 19th May 2007 17:01 Edited at: 19th May 2007 17:01
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@Hobgoblin Lord: It's not unlikely in the future. Computing power could be so great that having a program develop another program through trial and error is faster than humans laboring over it.

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