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Work in Progress / Project: Zion

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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 02:50 Edited at: 7th Sep 2007 03:12
In Project: Zion, you play as the space captain John Stark, who is ordered to investigate the disappearances of the crew of the space station ZION9, and find your son who was posted there. Zion boasts 35 levels and 12 multiplayer maps, along with a whole arsenal of weapons from which to choose. Fight through the dark corridors of the "abandoned" ZION9 in this futuristic survival horror/first person shooter game. Zion is scheduled for release in Winter 2007.


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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 02:55 Edited at: 7th Sep 2007 03:13
It is a commercial FPSC game using modified Colonel X entities as zombies, Rolfy's "Crawler" and Errant A.I.'s "Sentry Bots". It will be sold in actual stores with an ESRB rating. It's basically zombies in space, with an interesting twist at the end of the game (That I won't give away )


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 04:17 Edited at: 7th Sep 2007 04:19
It's going to be sold in stores yet you don't provide any links or screenshots? Strange...

EDIT: Nevermind, found some on your site. I'd like to see some more proof of this whole "commercial" thing before I say anything else.


tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 04:29
Wraith Staff,

I'm going to be harsh, but do believe me, I'm trying to help.

This is not a good WIP. First of all, you've not been able to show any sign of progress. Second of all, your claims to get an ESRB rating and to be selling it in stores makes the post sound rather... dreamish. Especially since getting your game rated is a rather expensive thing to do with a game that uses models that aren't yours. The demo, for other people interested, is available here.

Your post sounds more like the dreamers idea of a great game. My recommendation? Either update this post with easy-to-access video's, screenshots, demo's (I found the demo through your website) ect. and admit you're not likely to have the game rated (I wouldn't pay money to get this stuff rated) nor published/sold in stores unless locally... Actually, I wouldn't even make it commercial because I don't think many people will buy it. After playing the demo I had to conclude your level design is repeating, the enemies are simply programmed and honestly, there's nothing special about the game that makes it worth money. Look at what games are being sold in this community: Dumbo and Cool, a flawless, fun platformer... EvoChron, a spacesim with everything on it... In the future Dream, a extremely well presented puzzlegame. Do you feel your game matches the quality of those games?

You know, the best way to go is to keep practising and realistic. This game will never make profit for you, and that you'll rate it is plain nonsense. I recommend you to read this post and adapt your next WIP thread to it.

Keep up and don't let this get you down. Everyone has to learn.

Rami

Dr Manette
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 04:42
Agree with everything tha_rami said. We crave screenshots and some signs of progress without having to go through your site. Otherwise, you could have just posted a link and that's it.

Also, commercial games are hard to make, and even harder to sell.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 17:13
A. I'll give you screenies when I get home.

B. In the USA, were I live, the ESRB rates for FREE.

C. We already have a pubisher who will pay for ALL the production expence.

D. Our game is actually that good, the demo took a less than an hour to make (more like 5 min.) and our fans alraedy ate up our demo from 2006... which is no longer posted.

E. We kool as ice dude, don't be a playa hata lol


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phil17
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 17:28
If you really have found a commerical outlet for your game then well done, but i really doubt from the screenshots that its up to commerical quality.
good luck anyways.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 17:50
Thanks phil17. Those are production screenshots... they are crappy, the game isn't done yet. Also, I didn't say it wouldn't be a budget title, I just said it would be in stores. we are marketing it to gamers with less than up to par PCs. By the way, has anyone heard of "NRA Varment Hunter" or "Barby Horse Adventure"?


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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 19:12
I must say your reply kind of assures me you're not just talking - if you really were the normal type of n00b, you'd be swearing and calling us ignorant now. Post some details and we'll comment. And update that demo, if it's better now!

tikki
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 19:17
Quote: ""NRA Varment Hunter" or "Barby Horse Adventure"? "


yes, supposedly the two worse games (modern 3D games) of all time next to "Big Rigs".

RAWR!
el zilcho
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 19:33
just looks like an early development fpsc game to me...

look on his website people.
Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 00:41
el zilcho:

"D. Our game is actually that good, the demo took a less than an hour to make (more like 5 min.) and our fans already ate up our demo from 2006... which is no longer posted." also did you check the date on the screenshots and the expected release date? Winter 2007. Those screenshots also were only RELEASED on those dates. Common mistake, but the game is way cool when you actually play it. I'll post a better demo on showcase when it's closer to getting done. Oh, yeah... Hears a screenshot


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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 00:42
I know it's bitmap... Would you guys rather have a different format? Tell me if you do.


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Jeff032
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 00:45
jpg would be preferable, since it would display a View button in addition to Download, and would be much smaller.

Space Game WIP
Inspire
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 00:53 Edited at: 8th Sep 2007 00:53
It looks like a generic FPSC game.

Quote: "Common mistake, but the game is way cool when you actually play it."


It might be cool for you, but if your demo took under an hour to create, then I don't think you put that much work into it.

This is a good FPSC game:


The crazy
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 00:57
Not very impressive... Especially for how great you claim it is.

phil17
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 01:23
Yeah games like E.L.E are extremly hard to match up to. The FPSC engine is very good for indie devolpers but very limited too, the commerical market expects games up to very high quality such as Bioshock/ Crysis etc. FPSC just cant match that, the only way to make a normal FPSC sell is using a very popular name/ story line tag with it. Such as Ertovs games, which even with excellent cutscenes and voiceacting the game was harshly critised over the graphical effects and engine limitations.
You say you have found a publisher? If you recieved this via email...please be very wary of the "companies" claiming they will sell your game and then ask for your bank detials to add profits...because frankly thats bullcrap. If your going to sell your game contact proper websites or even sell it via your own website and use web-ads to promote it.
As from what ive seen, empty rooms with no custom areas besides a re-texture...you have alot of work to do.
Think about other commerical products and how your game compares?
-Graphicaly
-Sound
-Play Time
-Story
etc etc.
Just dont be getting over hyped for a major let down a few months down the line.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 01:26 Edited at: 8th Sep 2007 01:27
Here is the jpeg Also, Inspire, the demo took an hour to make, but the game has taken much, believe me much, longer. Also, Wraith Games is my JOB not a hobby like many of you. We take our games very seriously and have put lots of time, and dare I say love, into making them. When we release our game, it will be cool. And PS. I made then level on the demo... We actually have a level designer making the REAL levels, as well as having an arena designer, music producer, research and development department, and other positions. We are a company, not a bunch of hobbyists... not that you guys aren't serious... I just get paid.


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draknir_
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 01:31
You're seriously receiving checks to produce the stuff you are showing us? No offense, but your game looks pretty elementary, much like hundreds of similar FPSC games you can find on these boards.
Dr Manette
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 01:31
So this is a FPSC game? Just want to be clarified..

Also, from what I can tell, you're game isn't a very graphically impressive game. I have not tried the demo, however. I'd like to see a lot more screenshots, because if you're selling this, your buyers want to see shots of what they're buying.

I'm not saying you've got nothing here, but I haven't seen all you've got to offer yet.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 01:34
Also...
Quote: "You say you have found a publisher? If you recieved this via email...please be very wary of the "companies" claiming they will sell your game and then ask for your bank detials to add profits...because frankly thats bullcrap. If your going to sell your game contact proper websites or even sell it via your own website and use web-ads to promote it."
We contacted them, not vice versa. they are a "real" publisher... Sorry to disappoint you, but we have worked everything out months ago... Sorry it didn't work out for you.
After this post, MODS PLEASE LOCK! I didn't realize that I'd get battered like this. Sorry for waisting all your time guys


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phil17
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 02:04
Wraith, why do you want this locked? because people are being honest? Its not that were trying to pull you down but be relastic. I havent had any bad experiences with game companys as I have never made a game that I would call commerical quality. What I said was just common knowledge, but alot of new people seem to get sucked into these commerical dreams that will be a UK top seller.
You say you get paid to be a game devolper? I havent seen any custom stuff so far, start showing it and people will believe you.
There is many very talented and very professional FPSC users on this forums producing high quality games such as Beyond Life. But they struggle to get even noticed by commerical publishers. When comparing your screenshots to these its hard to believe that you are getting paid thats all. Just make us believe you?
The company must be well known espically if its forking over all the cash to publish this game, packaging costs/shipping/advertising etc etc. Who is publishing it?

Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 03:56 Edited at: 8th Sep 2007 03:59
um...

Quote: "...has anyone heard of "NRA Varment Hunter""




why on earth would you claim affiliation with this?

Virtual Nomad
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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 04:16
Quote: ""...has anyone heard of "NRA Varment Hunter""
I don't claim affiliation with them... AT ALL! I'm saying that budget games get made all the time. Trust me... Wraith doesn't shell out crap like that.


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Wraith Staff
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 04:20
Quote: "alot of new people seem to get sucked into these commerical dreams that will be a UK top seller."
I live in the US firstly, and ZION is, once again, a budget title for "not so up to par" PCs. We don't expect to be the next Halo or BioShock or anything.


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phil17
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 04:27
Yes I understand that, but your not really answering my questions?

tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 04:52
Wraith Staff, take it easy eh. Just show us some screenshots from the current, actual build, even if it is for not-so-par PC's - you got me curious. And how about telling us which publisher is publishing? I think many other talented gamemakers here would be interested in a publisher that's willing to sell indi titles. By the way, I don't think ESRB rates for free in America - I googled around (because I know a commercial indi developer who might be interested in such a thing) but couldn't find anything besides:

Quote: "To obtain a rating for a game, a publisher sends the ESRB videotaped footage of the game's most graphic and extreme content. The publisher also fills out a questionnaire describing the game's content and encloses a check for between $2,000 and $3,000."


So, if that about the ESRB is true, could you please tell me where you found this information - would be extremely useful .

Thanks in advance!

The crazy
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 05:21
This is dumb. Show us proof of your business liscense please.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 05:31
And proof of a sellable game. Yes, we get you're a company and you're serious about your games. Now, show us you are serious and give us some screen shots and whatnot. I want to know if you can talk the talk and walk the walk.

Silvester
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 00:48
This is all a big lie and alot of nonsens. There is NO way any publisher will even want to have that game, besides ones in 1998. It misses about EVERY graphical aspect a player likes in a game. Its a gun,a wall,a floor and a door. Wow...

If you could really pay an ESRB rating, your graphics would be way more awesome and your game would not be made in FPSC but in a way better engine like Torque.


tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 01:51
Hey people, people, calm down. Let's first see if he has something to show - he claims it's an old build. Let him proof otherwise first - if he can't, then we'll see. Wraith Games, if you have more, now's time to show it.

Wraith Staff
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 03:16
Let me tell you a story... Bout a man named Jed... I mean... Uh... Okay, look... Finding a publisher isn't that hard if you know how to look. Even stupid publishers, like Cafe'press and even mabey, if your lucky... Microsoft can publish a medioker game if your convincing enough ... Also, I was lead to believe, by the ESRB, that it was free... And anyway, $3000 is nothing, especially when you are working with a company and not just as an individual hobbyist, I only know what I am told. As for the other question: I don't have any screenshots as of now... but I will as our work progresses... I WILL POST, I PROMISE. The reason I posted on the forum in the first place was for input on the story, not the most obviously incomplete graphics. As I said earlier, sorry for waisting your time.


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Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 03:37
That's fine, Wraith, from what you said, it sounded like you were much farther ahead than you actually are. I suggest you post in game theory or the geek discussion board for an input on stories, because people are looking for physical stuff here in the wip board.

phil17
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 03:53
When u said it was getting published i was expecting somthing really of that standard.

tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 04:23
Wraith Staff, you didn't waste our time. Keep working on it - keep up the spirit. If you keep going on and refining, advancing, improving, you might eventually end up with something that'll drop our jaw.

If you wanted input on the story, Game Design Theory or Geek Culture would've been the correct boards. No harm done. Good luck with Project: Zion.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:24 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 06:25
After reading this thread, there is only one thing I can post. I made a promise to do it, after all.




Edit: Okay, now that I've posted that, please listen to the people trying to help you. If you do, you can break out of this basic cycle.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:47
Haha, here comes Jeku on his segway.

And the cat, totally awesome.

Blobby 101
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 10:22
fpsc games aren't allowed in WIP. they have their own board.


thanks to deathead for the sig!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 10:55
Quote: "fpsc games aren't allowed in WIP. they have their own board."

...
Quote: "If you've not quite finished your latest blockbuster, but still want people to comment on it then here is where you shout it out."


Hell, it doesn't even say it has to be a game at all.

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:25 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 17:28
I think it does, Aaron. A blockbuster isn't always a movie... or maybe I'm wrong? FPSC does have its own board, though, and you don't see dbpro/dbc games posted in there.

edit
Blockbuster: an unusually successful hit with widespread popularity and huge sales

tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:26
But as long as this is called WIP and not DBC/DBP WIP, why woulnd't they post their stuff here?

Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:30
But then why have a separate board for fpsc and not dbpro/dbc? I see it as organization. If I want to look at dbpro games, I go here. I have nothing against them, but it's not a bad thing to have a little separation.

tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:52
There ARE seperate boards for DBP/DBC . Right at the top .

Silvester
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:11
Quote: "Blockbuster: an unusually successful hit with widespread popularity and huge sales"


So according to that we cant post anything here unless we time travelled to see it would become a massive commercial game? That kindof sucks.


Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:20
Quote: "There ARE seperate boards for DBP/DBC . Right at the top ."


Right, but no one's posting works in progress there, just questions and such.

Haha, PoD. No one will hold a crappy game against you... oh wait..

tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:02
So then I guess that it is okay for FPSC games to be posted here, right? The fact we don't use the DBC/DBP board for Work in Progress doesn't mean FPSC games, just because they DO post on the FPSC should not be allowed?

Dr Manette
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 21:23
They have a FPSC showcase for a reason. Sure, they can post here, but why when they have their own area? They probably get nicer comments there anyways.

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:07
Most people in this forum are programmers and we are interested in seeing what other programmers program. We are generally not interested in what others create with other kinds of programs. There are boards for 3D and 2D art so we don't get to see that around here (unless they are used in a programmed project) just like we don't get to see FPSC creations here since it has it's own board for it. Those who are interested in 3D, 2D or FPSC visits those boards.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:17
How would that matter if it's not forbidden in the rules? This is the WIP board for WIP's that are significantly in progress and have something to show. That's all.

FPSC, DBC, DBP, whatever TGC product (even T3DGM!... naah...forget about T3DGM) should be allowed to post here as long as the rules do not prohibit so. FPSC people have just as much right to post here as we do.

Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:19
W.I.P. Work in Progress not Dbpro or DBC its W.I.P.

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