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Geek Culture / PM System

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Michael S
18
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Location: Why do you ask?
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 06:59
I was wondering if there are any plans to add a personal message system to the TGC Forums.
Thanks

AlanC
18
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Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:00
I was just thinking the same thing, it would be nice.

Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:00 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 07:01
I think they said they weren't going to allow this when someone asked about a mail system in the forums, at the FPSC forums as a feature request. Although, a PM system would be nice, like AlanC said.

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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ionstream
20
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Location: Overweb
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:03
I think PMS would be a fantastic addition to the forums!

That's not as bad as you think you said.
Michael S
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Location: Why do you ask?
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:16
I wonder what would happen if we got enough memebers to sign a petetion? Maybe Rich would see how much people want one.

Aaron Miller
18
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:20
Eureka Seven, that's a great idea. I add my name to the petition!

Petition:
* Aaron Miller


Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:39
I dont think its needed, if you needed to talk to someone. Why not just emailing him/her?


Jeku
Moderator
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:45
It won't happen. You can click the little Email icon below the user's posts and email him from there. There is no need for a PMS. This has already been discussed to great length

Aaron Miller
18
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 07:56
Some people don't want to give out their actual email address, and would prefer that members of the TGC forum, or other forums would PM them instead, plus then you would know rather or not a TGC member is spamming you, and if so then TGC would be able to do something about it.

Though if one won't be added, I respect their decision to do so, as the forum has a few other small bugs to be taken care of before any features should be, and at that the features aren't all that important.


Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
NG Website Aex.Uni forums
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 08:40
Email addresses are a dime a dozen. Create a new gmail account just for this forum if you need. Or create a free website where people can contact you. It's pretty easy. A PM system is just redundant. Plus, some people do not want to be contacted, which is why they don't have their email address listed.

Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 10:51
Any email that is posted on any website will soon be found by a spider bot and instantly added to a list of emails targeted by spam. If you do not want spam in your email, make sure no bot can find it.

I think the lack of a good PM system is the biggest problem with this forum. Which is the only forum I know of that doesn't have one at all. A good PM system would allow the users to block incoming messages from regular members (button not even visible) as well as to block certain members.

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Oolite
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 11:24 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 12:11
Quote: "I think PMS would be a fantastic addition to the forums!"


I wholeheartedly disagree, this forum is bitchy enough without having PMS.

Raven
19
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 11:35
Meh! this forum lacks a crapload of features that quite honestly are considered SI for all modern forums. Half the features we now have, most users had to fight tooth'n'claw for.

Although when these forums opened, none were really needed that badly; still just think it took about 2years to get file uploading and it's still hinkey in Explorer and Safari conserning images ending in .JPG instead of .jpg,.jpeg.. plus while the file uploader java app says it supports the full 50MB, I've had it fail every time at things over 1MB if that; it just says "this file is too large" without even trying to upload.

imo, getting anyone to change anything to do with the website or forum; is like trying to get blood from a stone. Hell when I was doing technical support here, it took me ages to get any sort of priviledges; and their current tech support guy Daniel, only just got moderator rights just to edit his own stickies.. or send out new activation codes without having to go through Rich/Rick. That was after more than 6months working for them!!

so honestly while this is a good idea, what chance do you honestly believe the lowly users have of getting tgc to actually do something to benefit them rather than themselves?

BatVink
Moderator
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 12:35
Um...not very professional, to say on a public forum that you've been discussing TGC's business, and state what the details of that business is.

Ron Erickson
Moderator
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 15:55
Quote: "I wholeheartedly disagree, this forum is bitchy enough without having PMS."


Then....

Quote: "Meh! this forum lacks a crapload of features that quite honestly are considered SI for all modern forums. Half the features we now have, most users had to fight tooth'n'claw for.

Although when these forums opened, none were really needed that badly; still just think it took about 2years to get file uploading and it's still hinkey in Explorer and Safari conserning images ending in .JPG instead of .jpg,.jpeg.. plus while the file uploader java app says it supports the full 50MB, I've had it fail every time at things over 1MB if that; it just says "this file is too large" without even trying to upload.

imo, getting anyone to change anything to do with the website or forum; is like trying to get blood from a stone. Hell when I was doing technical support here, it took me ages to get any sort of priviledges; and their current tech support guy Daniel, only just got moderator rights just to edit his own stickies.. or send out new activation codes without having to go through Rich/Rick. That was after more than 6months working for them!!

so honestly while this is a good idea, what chance do you honestly believe the lowly users have of getting tgc to actually do something to benefit them rather than themselves?"


Looks like PMS is here to me.
(I got your very funny joke Oolite )


a.k.a WOLF!
Oolite
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Location: Middle of the West
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 19:27
Thank god someone did

Zombie 20
17
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Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 19:36
*clears throat*

ferret.

Chris Franklin_
17
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Joined: 21st Dec 2006
Location: Home
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 19:39 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 19:39
Quote: "*clears throat*

ferret."


o_O ok then... and yea, been suggested many times, not gonna happen.

Lucifer
18
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 19:40
Quote: "Plus, some people do not want to be contacted, which is why they don't have their email address listed."


well you could add a button for those that dont want to be contacted, something like "Recive private messages from forum users" , i mean, why are you so against adding private messages? it would probably come in handy..


Silly!
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 20:10
Quote: "ferret."


Yeah, I'm here.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
IanM
Retired Moderator
22
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 21:00
Quote: "i mean, why are you so against adding private messages?"

Why are you so against using email? What can a PM system give you that email can't?

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Lucifer
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 21:25
Quote: "Why are you so against using email?"


i never said that i was against using email.

Quote: "What can a PM system give you that email can't?"


it would be much easier to send private messages rather than to send an email. In my oppinion, being able to send private messages would be a nice feature on these forums..


Silly!
Jonny_S
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Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 21:37
I don't see how you can argue against a PM system when most forums have them as standard, it would seem that people must use them (surely?). On other forums I find them to be a useful means of contact. Saying that I'm not really bothered either way, I just come here to read geek culture .

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Ron Erickson
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 21:57
I don't think anyone is arguing that it is a BAD idea, so don't get offended.
I think the point is... what is the point?

PM's are a way of personally contacting people, right? So is e-mail. I use e-mail every single day. It works GREAT!
Is the main point of having a PM system because other forums have it - so we should too? There isn't enough reason for the addition of a PM system to justify the cost of adding one. Wouldn't you rather see TGC spend their time, effort and resources working on their products? I know I would.


a.k.a WOLF!
Dr Manette
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Location: BioFox Games hq
Posted: 27th Sep 2007 22:05
I agree with Ron, TGC should be focusing way more on their games than tailoring to their forum 24/7 and adding all the little features that we want. I'm fine with email. There are, however, other things that I think need to be fixed, but that's not for this thread.

PM has NO advantage over email. Honestly, you can create an email in about 1 minute.

Jonny_S
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 22:09 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 22:12
[edit] I got the wrong end of the stick

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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 00:15 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 00:17
Again! Posting your email on a website means you will get spam! Thus PM is much better then email on a forum if you ask me. I like my inbox as completely 100% spam free as it is.

I don't really see why an existing forum solution wasn't installed in the first place. These days they have so many useful features this one lacks and yet they are free.

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 00:37 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 00:37
Did you ever thing to do something like these?

jakeATjekuDOTCOM
jake@jeku DOT com
jake@SPAMSUCKSjeku.com

etc.
etc.

Other forums have other features that aren't necessarily useful in my opinion. I for one would never use the PM function, and I know some members here don't want to be messaged, either.

Dr Manette
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 00:50
I could foresee spamming in the future of the PM system.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 01:32
I think a PM system is easier / better because:

1. I'm sure that many of the e-mail addresses on these "EMAIL" buttons are fake, no longer valid, or accounts that go unchecked.

2. People who come to this forum regularly will simply see that they have XX amount of PMs to check. I don't always check my e-mail regularly and I'm sure many other folks don't either, but I do come to this forum regularly.

3. Every other forum I've been to has had this feature, they have never had spamming problems and it comes in handy. I've corresponded with so many people via private message. It's just easy.

Jeku
Moderator
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 04:26
Quote: "I don't always check my e-mail regularly and I'm sure many other folks don't either, but I do come to this forum regularly. "


I check my email more frequently than this board, as I always have it open.

Also, there's already email, MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, etc. etc.

Michael S
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Location: Why do you ask?
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 06:00
Why are you so agianst new features?

Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 06:15
Quote: "2. People who come to this forum regularly will simply see that they have XX amount of PMs to check. I don't always check my e-mail regularly and I'm sure many other folks don't either, but I do come to this forum regularly."

I don't check my email as often either... I get more spam than normal mail.


Instead of TGC working on their forums 24/7, they'd have a nifty little person called a web designer ADD THE FEATURES ON FOR THEM. Just provide the code and some documentation around it. They obviously have enough money to do this, and it's bull that they couldn't be bothered to do so.


Making the point of "what is the point?" against the PM system is bogus. Good points have already been posted, and that very own point can be used against it as "what is the point of not adding a PM system?". If TGC wants to be against complying to standards, then TGC can be used as an example of below standard. I'm simply talking about the forums in this case, not the company.

TGC has some nice forums, but what's the point in not making them better? HEY! Technology is nice and good, but what's the point in advancing it?

Hey! I have enough money to get me through the week, but what's the point in raising it?

HEY! My game is big enough as it is, but what's the point in doing more work on it?

Hey! This model resembles the concept art quite nicely, but what's the point in making it better?

Hey! My software has enough features as it is, why add more? I was going to add a comment about DBP, but decided against it.

Hey! Living inside a cabin is fine, but even though I can afford to move into a mansion, what's the point?



Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
NG Website Aex.Uni forums
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 10:25
Jeku:
And for you who doesn't want to recive PMs you can just turn that feature off

I use the Gmail notifyer so I get an instant update when I get an email. If I had a PM I wouldn't be bothered with emails from people I don't want emails from but they can still contact me.

A PM system is much better then the forum threads directed to a specific person because he/she doesn't have an email available.

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Pyramid Games Ltd
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 15:36
Yea a whole lot nicer than having to e-mail anybody.

IanM
Retired Moderator
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 15:43
@Eureka Seven,
'Why are you so agianst new features?'

We're not - we're against useless features, or feature for the sake of having features.

You have several methods of contacting someone on a personal level, why should TGC provide yet another?

@Aaron,
'If TGC wants to be against complying to standards'
Point me to the standards document, or give me its ISO or EMCA number

'I don't check my email as often either... I get more spam than normal mail.'
Well download and install mailwasher to check your email and to filter the spam.

All of your final points have no parallel to providing a PM system or not. How about 'Hey, I have one 10mm spanner, let's have another but make sure that I can only use it on one single piece of equipment'.

@DA,
You have filters in gmail - they aren't hard to set up.

@Agent Dink,
'1. I'm sure that many of the e-mail addresses on these "EMAIL" buttons are fake, no longer valid, or accounts that go unchecked.'

PM was available on the RGT forums way back. People used to PM me, but I never noticed because I never checked. A single email account is more likely to be checked than multiple PM's on various forums.
If the email address is invalid or fake then it's likely that the person you are communicating with doesn't care anyway.

'2. People who come to this forum regularly will simply see that they have XX amount of PMs to check. I don't always check my e-mail regularly and I'm sure many other folks don't either, but I do come to this forum regularly.'
I repeat - I didn't notice people had PM'ed me on RGT. If they had emailed me instead I would have known.

'3. Every other forum I've been to has had this feature, they have never had spamming problems and it comes in handy. I've corresponded with so many people via private message. It's just easy.'
Good for you and them. This forum doesn't have that and has no need for that - see email as a way of consolidating all of your individual PM checks into a single email.


Guys, face it. There is no good reason to add a PM system to a forum that already allows you to record a usable email address.

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Zappo
Valued Member
20
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 16:11
A compromise like the system eBay and various social networking sites use would be good, where you can send a message to someone through the forum and it gets forwarded to their email address would be nice. This way both parties get to keep their anonymity (or at the very least the recipient) but senders can easily be traced or blocked if necessary.
Personally I don't want to publish my email address on here or any forum because it leaves it open to abuse or harvesting. No matter how you try and encrypt it, if people can still read it then its vulnerable. All it would take is one person to take a dislike to your views and add you to a spammers mailing list and your email account is clogged. I don't want to have to create a new email account for every forum and check endless email accounts for new messages either. I have enough accounts as it is for various companies and personal use.
I think a very simple form mailer which hides the recipients email address would be a good addition to the site.
Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 17:59
Quote: "Um...not very professional, to say on a public forum that you've been discussing TGC's business, and state what the details of that business is."


Yeah, and TGC is the height of professionalism.
I'm not under NDA, neither is Daniel. We don't really discuss areas of sensitivity; although tbh I couldn't care less about discussing them. Would be good for them to see as a company that they're not exactly going about things the right way.

If I really lost all professional curtosy, then quite frankly I'd go completely in-depth to how things work with them; and why you can quite frankly never expect anything to change.

Quote: "Looks like PMS is here to me.
(I got your very funny joke Oolite )"


I got the joke, doesn't mean a response can't be made on the actual subject. I mean fgs, if the users don't take things seriously that need to be changed why the hell should TGC?

Quote: "We're not - we're against useless features, or feature for the sake of having features.

You have several methods of contacting someone on a personal level, why should TGC provide yet another?"


Sorry, but I'm taking down my MSN again from here; simply because I got a huge group of Mexican only speaking user who just wouldn't leave me the hell alone.

I only check e-mail once every couple of days properly, unless there is something I've been waiting for or the subject/contact is someone I consider important when doing a quick check every day.

Add to this I have an public e-mail, business e-mail and work e-mail! If I'm at work I have to manually sign these in each time I want to check because they all use the live service that only allows a single live passport at once.

That's in addition to signing in to this website, and Messenger!

Not to mention the spam I get through e-mail, and YES that still happens with the whole words instead of actual thing because spyders now have the ability to check and add based on that. So the fairly aggressive spam filters I have still need to be updated quite a bit.

So frankly, not only are you saying that you want us to log-in to our e-mail and this website; but also you want us to have multiple e-mail addresses because perhaps you don't want to be contacted via the one you standardly use and want to keep clean of crap?

Oh and add to this, those who just don't bother adding contact information at all.. OR bother to check their e-mail ever!

A PM System is bloody useful, as people actually use them. Hell it's something on most forums people don't simply ignore for the sake of ignoring. There is also NO issue with sending your mail because it won't ping back.

I have terrible trouble with free e-mail addresses with my 1&1 accounts as they'll ping back often. With my hotmail/live accounts this happens with some unregistered isp e-mail addresses. So ya know I've gotta then use an e-mail address I'd rather not give out just to contact someone.

Oh and let's not forget that while a PM System will show you have a new message as soon as you reload a page; e-mail (for example to people with AOL accounts) can take up to 24hrs to arrive in their inbox; that's if it ever sodding shows up!

So please, tell me what the hell the whole "fantastic" aspect of using e-mail addresses for contacting over PM?!

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:24
Quote: "Yeah, and TGC is the height of professionalism.
I'm not under NDA, neither is Daniel. We don't really discuss areas of sensitivity; although tbh I couldn't care less about discussing them. Would be good for them to see as a company that they're not exactly going about things the right way.

If I really lost all professional curtosy, then quite frankly I'd go completely in-depth to how things work with them; and why you can quite frankly never expect anything to change."


Raven,
I think TGC do just fine. No, they aren't perfect, but who the hell is? Please spare us this tone. Running pretend businesses does not make you an expert.

The bottom line is this:
Are they a bad idea? No.
Are they a good idea? Probably.
Should they be added? Doesn't matter.
Will they be added? No.
Is it because TGC are a bad at business or lazy? No.
What is the reason? It isn't necessary and their "web guy" is gone.
Should they hire a "new" web guy? Maybe someday.
Will it get done then? Probably not.
Why? Because it isn't necessary.


a.k.a WOLF!
Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:44
The only reason I don't see that the PM system should be integrated into the forum is because they don't have a "web guy" anymore. But once / if they ever get one I see no reason why he shouldn't spend a few days on a PM system.

Honestly, a few of you sound like you are scared of a PM system. Like you live in one of those creepy little towns in a mystery book and someone drives up who hasn't been in-bread and living there his whole life and you just want to destroy the guy and get rid of him because he's new and you don't like the color of shirt and pants he's wearing.

From the testimony of 90% of the people in this thread, yes, a PM system is not truly necessary but very very useful. It's simply easier and faster than e-mail, you know the PM you get isn't going to be a male enhancement pill advertisement or something about stocks, and if you don't like PMs you can turn it off or block users. It would be a great feature. And like someone else said, PMs are nearly instantaneous, most of the time e-mail takes a long time to filter through servers and stuff. Sometimes e-mail goes undelivered as well in some instances. It's frustrating.

Oolite
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:45
Quote: "I got the joke, doesn't mean a response can't be made on the actual subject. I mean fgs, if the users don't take things seriously that need to be changed why the hell should TGC?"


Lighten up, i just don't think this needs to be changed/added, i seriously don't.

People have spoken out "I want a PM system", others "I don't want a PM system", the decision should be left up to TGC.

BatVink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:56 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 18:59
It's strange that some people who have a major issue with the lack of a PM system are the same ones who complain that TGC don't spend enough time and resources on the product.

You can't have it both ways I'm afraid.


And Professionalism means not needing an NDA to keep you in line. If an NDA is the only thing that stops you from talking about confidential information then you have serious integrity issues.

By the way, when is Callsign due out again? I hear you broke your own NDA on that one, being the developer and all that.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 19:09
Quote: "It's strange that some people who have a major issue with the lack of a PM system are the same ones who complain that TGC don't spend enough time and resources on the product.
"


I think TGC does a pretty great job

Robin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 19:17
I don't.

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Deathead
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 19:35 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 19:36
Quote: "Guys, face it. There is no good reason to add a PM system to a forum that already allows you to record a usable email address.
"

I don't use Microsoft Outlook, so I have to leave the website and go to the website which I can access my email, so you saying no good reason its becuase half of the people cannot be bothered to go all the way to a website send passwords just to send a friggin email. PM's are like instant chats. But they will be personal to your profile. And besides, if someone gets a email address wrong they'll get annoyed becuase the person who was recieving this email will not be recieving it. PM is a great idea as this means there will be no muck ups in email address, easy to just send things to people instead of keeping writing in a darn password all the time, leaving the website just to access a email.

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:19
Quote: "I don't."


Well, I think your a twit.

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Robin
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:24
well...judging by your joined date, I've followed DB for a lot longer than you have, and am thus in more of a position to judge the company.

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Insert Name Here
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th Mar 2007
Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:27 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 20:28
Hmmm... but maturity is not a really valid argument. Personally, if you were to have to do without DB/DBP, you probably woulddn't like it, would you. It's the typical windows/gates argument.
'Thus' is a nice word, by the way.

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Robin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:33
My comment wasn't on your maturity, it was about the time you have been with the company and the experiences you have had with it.

And I haven't loaded up DBP in months, so I am doing just fine without it...I eventually just got fed up with the bugs and my computer slowing to a crawl all the time.

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dab
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2004
Location: Your Temp Folder!
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:35
Heck, checking email is as easy as hitting 1 button. I use Gmail, I have a RSS feed that goes onto my iGoogle home page. Makes life easy when all I want to do is check my email.

I think this forum will do fine without PM's. It has been doing fine without them for years (at least 3, since I've been here).

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