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Geek Culture / Cases of your Mom/Dad hating your girlfriend? (And inter racial dating)

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 02:43 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 02:44
So felt like sharing a bit of opinions here on an issue that's been bugging me. And not too many things bug me enough to make a thread about it.

I'm Ukrainian in background, 99.8% assimilated into North American culture. For the past month I've been dating a Korean girl. I've never had an asian girlfriend of any kind, and all the previous girls I've dated have been white.

My mother is the type of person who basically finds any other race/culture other than her own to be awkward. She's not interested in anything else other than what she knows and grew up with. She doesn't like socializing with people who have an accent that's unlike hers. She thinks most asians are weird, thinks asian culture is strange, drops the usual "they all look like chinks" comment, and basically displaces the typical white outlook on the asian continent.

On the other hand, I'm someone who's constantly interested in other cultures. Being in Toronto, you're basically in the hotspot for people all over the globe.

She's not happy that I'm not dating a non-white girl. She especially dislikes Koreans because apparantly some Korean colleague of hers made a joke about eating a cat. Har har. We had a bit of an argument on an unrelated issue, and she later made sure to let me know that I "only go after the asians" because only white guys like me with "low self-esteem" date asians because they can't interest white girls. Ouch! Who goes that low?

It's basically the common argument about white guys dating asians because asian girls are easy peices of lesser meat.

Don't get me wrong here: I'm not ashamed of anything I do. I don't really care what the bias against cases like mine is, but it's just a bit hard to look past it when you have to both live AND be related to the person dishing it out. Now I could simply move out, talk to my mom less (and only about whatever I want), and keep doing what I please, but it is my Mom after all. And I don't feel like changing her views of anything either. Sometimes maybe you're just related to the wrong people?

So anyone ever been in a similar situation? Or might have something to share? I know Jeku here is married to a Chinese girl, so maybe he might drop some interesting flak people have given him in the past.

Anyway, off to do that mountain of homework.

edit: And yeah, I know there's already been a bit of girlfriend related threads lately. Deal!

Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 02:54 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 02:54
I find this situation between you and your mom sad. Actually, whenever I hear of a white guy and black girl or vice versa dating and someone racist makes a comment about it I'd always ask, "Do you have a problem if a white guy goes out with an Asian girl?" Usually that shuts them up because Asian girls are very often attractive. Not saying black people aren't attractive but the appearance most times between white and black people is very different. But then so are Asians, just in different ways.

Anyhow, no I don't see anything wrong with inter-racial relationships... We're all humans, it's not like they are really a lower race like people seem to think. It's all ignorant opinions from prejudiced people. I'm tired of it.

If you really like this girl, then I hope this relationship works out for you two.

Oh yeah, and... Screenshots? Haha, just kidding. Just had to be the first one to say it.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 02:55
My parents never made a deal with it.

I don't like your mom's view on Koreans. That's bull.

Meh. Signatures. Lame :p
Dr Manette
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:00
Yea, I've always had problems with people who discriminate against people and oppose interracial dating etc. What really irks me are the people who don't like other cultures. I suppose it's the different in generations partly, seeing how the younger people have grown up in a more culturally mixed world than their parents.

If you like her, date her.

Grandma
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:02
Well congrats mate, sorry about your mothers racial attitude, i don't like that at all.

I am in a similar situation actually, i have a bunch of afghani friends (they're actually the nicest people i know), but my parents don't like me talking to them because i might get all suicidal and bomb something....yeah


Oh boy, i hate my parents. In most cases, there's not much you can do except ignore her (you control your own destiny, remember?), or just head straight on and tell your mom how racial she is and tell her to be more open minder or she'll never hear from you again. She obviously deosn't respect or have trust in your judgement. If that's the case, you shouldn't respect her either.

Respect works both ways.

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SageTech
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:24
Unfortunately, you can't really change one's outlook on things like these. Perhaps you could have a long talk with your mom over this stuff. Mainly, I don't get this "not good enough for white girls" crap. Most of the time, they are stuck up, and just generally not fun to be around, in my case anyway. Meanwhile it seems all Asian girls I know are nice and act well-mannered, I enjoy my time with them.

I think it has to do a lot with culture. I mean you look at American culture, and we have "role models" like paris hilton, what could you expect girls in this part of the world to act like?

Finally, the misconception that all asians are the same is so incredibly wrong, I can hardly comment on it. You will find that those from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, etc. act and look VERY different. Its just as absurd as saying all people in
Europe look the same and talk the same. While there may be some semblance of similarity, people are different all over, inside and out.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:39
Racism is just a concept I cannot understand... How certain races of humans can be unacceptable is just beyond me. You question these racist people and they have no definite answers. They're always something stupid like what Grandma said:

Quote: "I am in a similar situation actually, i have a bunch of afghani friends (they're actually the nicest people i know), but my parents don't like me talking to them because i might get all suicidal and bomb something....yeah "


Seriously, those are the kinds of answers you get almost all the time. No one has a good reason to dislike one race or another. It really disgusts me.

Due to the current situations in the Middle East, I have noticed a lot of people have gotten more racist against Middle Easterners in America and other westernized civilizations. Every one seems to label them as terrorists and it's frustrating.

I could vent about this crap forever. If only for the reason of pissing off racist people I'd love to have a girlfriend of a different race.

tha_rami
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 03:56 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 03:59
I'll tell. I met my girlfriend about 22 months ago, we were at the same school but we met through MSN. After an 8 month 'hunt' she finally fell for my undeniable charmes and we ended up happy together.

My father is Egyptian, muslim, my mother atheist Dutch. I myself have been raised with Islamic values although my tendency is more towards agnostisism than Islam. I do fast, pray on friday, respect their beliefs ect.

Her parents were divorced, her mother taking care of her little brother, she living with her dad. Her dad was a cool guy, really, very friendly, very caring, very open. He loved her and respected me, it seemed. I never visited her mother in those first few months.

In the Netherlands, the Islam is very controversial. We have politicians who are actively searching to change to constitution to allow for banning of the Quran. Most people see the random group of gangkids as representative for muslims and foreign groups, from muslim countries have a high social care/criminal percentage. People tend to forget that not every somewhat more darkskinned person is a muslim, that no two muslims are the same and that they are generalising.

Everything went well. But at one point, her dad got a new girlfriend. This new girlfriend says she was raped by a Maroc guy, and beat up by another muslim guy. Needless to say, she has a heartfelt hate towards the muslims in the Netherlands. She'd say things as 'barbarians', 'idiots', 'hypocrites'.

My girlfriends father started changing. Without us knowing it, he started feeling irritated about everything about me. My shoes stood in the wrong place, I left too late and came too early, I was unpolite (mind you, I've never heard someone calling me unpolite simply because politeness is a virtue which I hang onto in all cases) and I cost them money for eating there. A bad grade would be my fault, even if it wasn't. We didn't know this, until one day.

In the meanwhile, her father started to make plans to move away from our town. He indicated he had plans to move there and to take Suzanne with him, something he fully expected her to comply to. Her mother and little brother have some 'personal' problems, something she tries to avoid getting into or close to for her own good. He would take her with him, and build up a new life there.

His behaviour to me had barely changed. I had a good conversation with him about how lovely the new house looked. That was the last good conversation I had with him. My girlfriend, however, turned out to be against moving. She insisted to stay here, or even move to her mother.

Suddenly everything changed. My girlfriend called that I was no longer welcome in the house for the above complaints. She decided to move to her mothers place and I helped her moving stuff. She's not very secure nor happy at this new place, but it'll do until we find something better for us. Maybe in a year or two.

Her father has by now, 4 months later, admitted that my religious background was the main reason. He was afraid I'd become more fanatic in practice, or become dominant and influence her or force her to change. We know his new girlfriend was a main reason for the switch of attitude, although he denies it and claims he felt like that from the start. The whole mothers-side of the family loves me and accepted me as part of the family. I took her to Egypt for a few weeks vacation, all family cards to her family are adressed to me as well and I enjoy talking with them a lot. Her mother invites me for visits if I don't drop by for a week.

I guess I'll just never get to know her fathers side of the family. Just because they can't bother to see there's a good person behind the slightly darker skin, the tongue that speaks more languages and the culture they're prejudiced about. Shame.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 04:47 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 04:48
Quote: "and basically displaces the typical white outlook on the asian continent."


Hey hey, it's an attitude that can be from anywhere. When discussing racism, let's get it straight that it's not only white people who have issues with other races.

Well, I understand 100% what you're going through. Like you said, I'm married to a Chinese girl from school who came here only about five years ago. Before her I dated a Japanese girl from school (yes, I love accents ). My parents have been fine with my wife, but I know my mom will never really accept her as a "daughter". She acts like she does, but there have been a few occasions where she's said something like "Would this have happened if you would have just married a Canadian?"

Urgh.

I wouldn't necessarily call your mother a racist in the pure sense, as (if I understand this correctly) she grew up in a completely different culture than a westernized country. My wife has said countless times that Chinese families are *very* concerned when one of their kids is dating a white person. Her parents were concerned that I was going to perve out on their daughter and be a bad influence-- just because I was from a Western culture. It really works both ways, and I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with it.

After all, it isn't your mom who is dating her, right. You can listen to her advice and make your own decisions because in the end it's your life. When you move out (if you're still at home) and get a career, married, etc., you have to be with the girl all the time so you need to be happy with her, not your mother.

Hollywood's always making movies about mother-in-law's as historically they aren't ever happy with who their son or daughter marries.

Keo C
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 05:23
How many lines of code?

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Mr Tank
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 05:23
Why don't you just tell this to your mum? You might find you've just misinterpreted something she said.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 08:41
Aye, I agree with tank. But really there's nothing much you can do about it, just tell your mom what a great person she is

Oh, and when you run into someone who says something racist, here's what you say: "Ye, my girlfriends a *euphemism*. And usually they say something like, "Oh well they're not all *whatevers*. And you return it with "No.. She really is a *whatever*". That usually messes with their brains


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 12:24
Inferiority...that's an interesting view point, but I know there are people like that, and often or not their view cannot be changed.

But if you're able to convince that it's love and not because of low self-esteem you might strike lucky. Dare I say it, but parents like that tend to be stubborn with their point of view and I find it a shame. Perhaps if you tell her all of the things that make your girl so great, why you love her and why you would not want any body else and how it doesn't matter if she's white, Asian, African, Russian or even Canadian, and we know how loopy they are...

If she refuses to listen to what you have to say and why it isn't important, then she clearly doesn't understand and isn't interested in understand what you want, but rather is sticky with her phobia, then I say if you love your girl enough, then be stubborn too, go out with her, you're old enough to make your own decisions in life, you know what you want and though she is your mother, but if she fails to try and understand your choices, then dare I say it, she's lacking in one of her duties - though that is speaking as an Englishman and no doubt how respect works from Ukainian culture is different, even if you're living in Canada.

I don't know what else to say to be honest, stubborn people are the most difficult to overcome, I guess by being stubborn back she may realise that you're what's important to her and then again there runs the risk that she doesn't, especially if she's like my Sri Lankan Aunt, but as you seem to be asking for advice rather than wanting to get away from her like my cousins did, then it seems pretty obvious that she isn't.

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Robin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 15:08
I'm half german/half english.

Racism is a strange thing. People and cultures are different...we're not the same...but that's a good thing. I don't think people want to be treated the same either, and that's right, because they're not the same. People are equal, but not the same

I think a lot of racism stems from insecurities/feelings of inferiority in people. On boths sides.

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Robin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 15:18
Quote: "Finally, the misconception that all asians are the same is so incredibly wrong, I can hardly comment on it. You will find that those from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, etc. act and look VERY different. Its just as absurd as saying all people in
Europe look the same and talk the same. While there may be some semblance of similarity, people are different all over, inside and out."


Yeah, it's both ways. I have a lot of asian friends (I go to a uni in London where 40% of people are oriental) and sometimes they'll 'test' me by asking if someone/something is chinese/japanese/korean etc. lol. I just ask them to highlight the main differences between germans, austrians and poles...

But no, my experience with asian people, in particular girls, is that they are a lot more sincere and caring than english people I know.

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Pyramid Games Ltd
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 15:42
Too many girlfriend threads.... Must see new board,


http://tgcgftalk.myfreeforum.org/index.php

Yay!

Manic
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 16:42
what i find most shocking about your story isn't your mother's racism (which i do still find abhorent), but her words directed at you i find really hard to swallow, what does she hope to acheive by pushing you away like that?

*sigh*
ignorance & bigotry
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 20:23
Quote: "because i might get all suicidal and bomb something....yeah"

If you did, it wouldn't surprise me.
Not becasue of your friends, because of your... terrorist background.

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Gowmars
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 21:04
Okay here is my story.

I'm black. I have very bright skin, light brown. I have ancestors who are white, indian, etc. But legally I'm black you could say. Even though I get mistaken for other races at times. But anyway that's just back ground info.

One of my ex's is white. I dated her for 9 months. Well her mom got really really pissed at her when she found out she was dating a black guy. I had actually met her mom prior to us dating and she seemed to like me then. But once she found out we were dating she got mad. My ex wanted to move out cause of it. But I didn't want her to screw herself over just for me, so I told her we didn't have to date if that was such a problem, but in the end her mom got over it and accepted it. And after we broke up she would always tell my ex how she missed me. I guess I got lucky.

Her parents are divorced though, so I never met her dad. She was too afraid to tell him cause he told her never to date a black guy. But she eventually told him. He seemed to accept it.

But after we broke up she told me something a couple of months later. She said after we broke up they made her promise never to date a black guy again. >.<

My current GF is Filipino. Well her dad is from the Philippines her mom is white. She pretty much looks like a white girl with an asian face. Lucky for me her mom loved me from the moment she met me. Her parents are divorced, so i've never met her real dad, but her step dad who is married to her mom is half black half white. And she is perfect for me we are 110% compatible so I'm glad for that

She has told me though that her relatives on her dad's side don't really like her because she is not full Filipino :/ luckily she doesn't have to deal with them anymore.

HWT
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 21:58
I bet that the aliens in space are just watching all this mish-mash and slapping their foreheads laughing out "What a bunch of idiots!" - no wonder they're always trying to take over our earth

But seriously, racism is just beneath us. I mean, humans are supposed to be "advanced and intelligent" race and we can't even get past the simplest problems we had 7000 years ago - what's up with that?

In my opinion it all comes back to a few of the greatest weaknesses of humans - greed, envy, pride

It's sad to think that if we had just gotten over all this racial and dominance crap we would have at least been able to solve some of the problems in the world. Who knows? Maybe we would already be on Mars drinking space wine coolers and jumping through stable worm holes to meet the Earthlings again (and no I don't have figures and facts to support this - it was just an example )

But as far as this parent-critique thing goes - parents are from a previous generation - one much less connected than we are today so I guess it's not entirely their fault. They grew up thinking that the only people in the world were the ones immediately closest to them (in physical location). Therefore, they reject any other culture, quoting stupid and inaccurate stereotypes, in order to avoid the fears of mixing with "another race" - that kinda sounds like several different species of humans!!! But seriously, would you extend your hand to a hypothetical 8 foot tall Martian without fear that he/she/it might just eat it or blow it off?

In the end, the 19 responses to your question Aikicat, all supporting inter-racial (i.e. human-human relationships - DOH!) should be enough to convince your mum that there's nothing wrong with it - if anything it will allow humans to evolve better.[quote]

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 22:02
Sounds like a hit and miss, those who think there's no such thing as racism are wrong, I could quote my uncle and well for the sake of anybody to take it the wrong way I won't. It is a real shame that there are people in society that haven't got over the fact that nobody is racially inferior as we're all pretty much mixed raced in the west - I'm English, Irish and Greek, not so exotic, but I can't hold anything against the Irish because of their terrorists, as I'd have to call myself a psychotic leprechaun too.

If anybody's parents have a problem with marrying an 'inferior race' like the Scottish or such like then perhaps throw this in their face:

One of the most reknowned love story in the world, has a Man marrying a woman inferior to his situation in society, but in no way did it do harm because it was all about love, Mr Darcy ignored the obligations of his relatives, his best friend's relatives and the social structure to marry the one he loved...That was Jane Austen's 'Pride and Prejudice' with Elizabeth and Mr Darcy of course and well I feel like a fool for bringing it up, but I have read it...

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Grandma
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 23:14 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 23:15
Quote: ""because i might get all suicidal and bomb something....yeah""


Quote: "If you did, it wouldn't surprise me.
Not becasue of your friends, because of your... terrorist background."


Been talking to seppuku lately?

Confidentiality obviously mean nothing to him.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 01:35
Oh you would say that wouldn't you, bah!

Just reading through other people's problems, not just Megaton's, tha_rami's sounds like a helpful example, it is a shame this position was taken, but the reality is, they made a decision they're most happy with, this whole anti-Muslim thing lead to separation and it's the parent to blame. On that whole Muslim thing, I have never spoken to a mean Muslim is all I can say, yet they are persecuted for being 'terrorists' when terrorists are only a small percentage and are bigots...And it doesn't help with the fear of terrorism kicked up by the media and the word 'Muslim' being used in that context, I think the word Muslim should have been replaced with 'bigot' or 'extremist' a long time a go so that their religion would be left out of the equation, as the fact they're Muslim doesn't matter. No doubt the Irish terrorist in the Uk were Catholic...

Sorry, I went off on a tangent, please ignore me...

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 01:55
Okay let's be realistic here. We can't just leave the word Muslim out of it, when 99.9% of the terrorists from the middle east lately have claimed to be Muslim (extremist or not). Let's not get silly here.

While I know that the Muslim faith does not preach violence, these are extremists who act out, but we can't sweep their religion under the carpet as its their main driving force.

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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 01:58
Question, why are there so many girlfriend/boyfriend/otherfriend topics in geek culture...
Grandma
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:13 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 02:15
yes, you're right Jeku. But i guess they (as a people) have had some troubled times lately. It wasn't like this before the war. They might feel that there's a war on their very religion, and feel pressured to "defend" it. Infact, that IS what they feel according to a poll i came over once. Can't know for sure how accurate it was, but it seemed most muslims felt that way. If that is really how they feel than it makes much sense as to why it's the hard-baked religious muslims doing most of the terrorism.

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Jonny_S
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:15 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 02:22
Quote: "Question, why are there so many girlfriend/boyfriend/otherfriend topics in geek culture..."

This is a different girlfriend topic to the others, its more of a discussion of a serious matter related to a girlfriend. In answer to your question though, I suppose its because geek culture is full of horny teenagers?

Quote: "Hey hey, it's an attitude that can be from anywhere. When discussing racism, let's get it straight that it's not only white people who have issues with other races."

I'm glad you pointed that out. Oh and also don't think it can't happen the other way around. I was dancing with this girl in a club before, she was black and her male friends (who were also black) came up to me and, I quote told me to "F*ck off milky bar kid", now, I actually cried with laughter and then did actually walk off.

I should also mention that at my uni there are some real retards who think it is funny to pretend that they have connections with terrorist organisations because they are muslim. So sadly it seems there are a minority who like to take advantage of this increased media coverage.

This kind of topic is always dangling by the thread, I wonder if it will run its course without getting locked .

[edit]Grandma wanted to point out that I missed a comma. She was previously white by the way.

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Grandma
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:18 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 03:17
Quote: "I was dancing with this girl in a club before she was black and her male friends (who were also black) came up to me and[...]"


What color was she previously?

Edit: White, i see. interesting, i wonder what happened.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 03:13 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 03:14
Quote: "yes, you're right Jeku. But i guess they (as a people) have had some troubled times lately. It wasn't like this before the war. They might feel that there's a war on their very religion, and feel pressured to "defend" it. Infact, that IS what they feel according to a poll i came over once. Can't know for sure how accurate it was, but it seemed most muslims felt that way. If that is really how they feel than it makes much sense as to why it's the hard-baked religious muslims doing most of the terrorism."

The problem with that argument is that there were terrorist attacks by Islamic extremists way before the war even started, so, while the war may have driven them to feel more defensive (which is a problem, because they see it as an attack on their religion, when it has nothing to do with that), it definitely didn't start this defensive attitude. The entire reason they fight is because they think that we (as in most of the rest of the world) has declared war on their religion, and I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with the "westernization" of the world, but I'm still clueless as to why they think that the world is attacking their religion, and to how they think killing innocent people will defend it.


Robert F
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 03:19
Quote: "geek culture is full of horny teenagers?"

lol!!!

CattleRustler
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 03:22
get some white friends of yours that your mom doesnt know to go up to her in a supermarket or somewhere, and have them rank on her with all sorts of Ukranian racist statements. She if she tells you about the incident later. Ask her how she felt. If she felt insulted tell her its how you feel when she's racist against your girlfriend.

Your mom sounds like a lot of old-school off the boat moms I knew, having grown up with lots of Greek, Yugoslav, Romanian, and Lithuanian friends. Sorta hypocritical really.

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Grandma
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 03:30 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 03:32
@ Gil

Well i never said there wasn't terrorism before the war, i meant it's become quite horrible after the war, more so than before. I do not know how some muslims come to that conclusion, that there's a war on their religion. It may have something to do with being subjected to scrutiny everywhere they go just because they are muslim. People are afraid of muslims which is why they are targeted out and always questioned for everything they do. Media has done a great job at scaring people with constant images of terrorists with the obligatory "muslim" attached nearby. For that, i guess i could see why they feel their religion is threatened, because it's become associated with terrorism.

And killing innocent people rarely accomplish anything good, but tell that to the extremists who has lost all sense of decency after his family was killed (unjustly or not) in war, and is filled with rage and want nothing else than to end it all. Why they need to take civilians with them is beyond me. But remember, only the suicides were civilians die actually reach the media. You can't expect to hear about all those who die alone. Well, i've seem to have lost my train of though so i'll stop here.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 03:55 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 03:57
Quote: "Well i never said there wasn't terrorism before the war, i meant it's become quite horrible after the war, more so than before. I do not know how some muslims come to that conclusion, that there's a war on their religion. It may have something to do with being subjected to scrutiny everywhere they go just because they are muslim. People are afraid of muslims which is why they are targeted out and always questioned for everything they do. Media has done a great job at scaring people with constant images of terrorists with the obligatory "muslim" attached nearby. For that, i guess i could see why they feel their religion is threatened, because it's become associated with terrorism.

And killing innocent people rarely accomplish anything good, but tell that to the extremists who has lost all sense of decency after his family was killed (unjustly or not) in war, and is filled with rage and want nothing else than to end it all. Why they need to take civilians with them is beyond me. But remember, only the suicides were civilians die actually reach the media. You can't expect to hear about all those who die alone. Well, i've seem to have lost my train of though so i'll stop here."

Yes, I agree, it's terrible that so many think that all Muslims (or even many) are terrorists ready to blow themselves up in the name of Allah, when in reality, the extremists make up only a small percentage. But I think that this threat hasn't made terrorists out of former non-extremists, but only increased the fear of the already extremists Muslims. And also, many of the suicide bombers are young men who haven't lost anyone, and their family supports them in their suicide attacks, because they are doing it to "defend Islam". It's what they're defending it from that I'm confused about. No matter what your stance on the war, you can't deny that we are in no way pressing our (if you could call Christianity "our", since our society is so diverse) religion on them, which is why it doesn't make any sense. Some see it as a war for oil, some see it as a war for freedom, but they are the only ones who see it as a war between religions.


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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 04:16 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 04:19
Oh boy, here we are, debating religion AND politics (somewhat).

I agree with everything you say, there's one thing i must comment on though. Your comment about pressing christianity on them. Well, there doesn't have to be any other religion forced on them to feel that way, it might just enough for them that 2 islamic countries are at war with a mostly christian nation, and Iran is rumored to be next on the list. In their heads, they do the math and find a pattern. Add the fact that "Muslim" have connotation with terrorism now, and since the war is named "war on terror" which then in that context translates to "war on islam". I'm just being hypothetical here. I don't know.

If you're very imaginative, you can probably find 50 reasons why they think so, but in the end it doesn't really matter. It will surely continue till this war ends......eventually.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 04:53 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 04:54
If I go over the line with this, please forgive me. Three excerpts from the Quran that show that most terrorists are not 'hardcore' muslims - they step over the line with every suicide attack.

Quote: ""And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors."
- Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190)"


Quote: "Oh, ye who believes! [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30)."


The killing of innocents, even if they are affliated with a group hostile to muslims but are not actively involved with assaulting Islam, is strictly forbidden.

And to end with my favorite Surah:
Quote: "Say you, O disbelievers!
I worship not that you worship.
And nor you worship what I worship.
And I shall not worship what you worshiped.
And nor you shall worships what I worship.
For you your religion, and for me my religion."


I fail to see how one can claim that suicidal attackers, the attacks on 9/11, decapitations in the middle-east ect. can be related to true Islam. Nevertheless, let's avoid making this into a discussion.

Back on-topic... Sorry. If it's too far, could any of the mods please remove the post for me?


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 04:57
Quote: "
I agree with everything you say, there's one thing i must comment on though. Your comment about pressing christianity on them. Well, there doesn't have to be any other religion forced on them to feel that way, it might just enough for them that 2 islamic countries are at war with a mostly christian nation, and Iran is rumored to be next on the list. In their heads, they do the math and find a pattern. Add the fact that "Muslim" have connotation with terrorism now, and since the war is named "war on terror" which then in that context translates to "war on islam". I'm just being hypothetical here. I don't know.

If you're very imaginative, you can probably find 50 reasons why they think so, but in the end it doesn't really matter. It will surely continue till this war ends......eventually.
"

It's more like a civilized discussion . And we seem to be in agreement with most things . I guess I can see why they might possibly think that it is because they are Muslim, but think it is ridiculous that they would believe that is why. If we were doing it because they were Muslim, we would a) be persecuting Muslims in our own countries, b) be at war, and not have friendly relations with other predominately Muslim nations such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and c) be trying to press another religion on them or not only take over the country, but kill them as well.

Okay, so sorry about going off a bit into politics and religion, but I think that we did it in a civilized and "peaceful" manner, back on topic (unless Grandma would like to comment ). I think it's sad that people are still judged by the color of their skin, when in our mixed society now that has almost nothing to do with anything.


tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 05:03
Quote: "Okay, so sorry about going off a bit into politics and religion, but I think that we did it in a civilized and "peaceful" manner, back on topic (unless Grandma would like to comment ). I think it's sad that people are still judged by the color of their skin, when in our mixed society now that has almost nothing to do with anything.
"


Perfectly put.


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Jess T
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 06:01
I'm a white, true-blue red blooded Australian.
I dated a Filipino girl in high school for a number of months, and I don't think anyone said anything about it... Not once

Personally, the physical features of black and asian people don't do it for me, hence, I tend to only date white girls. Having said that, I have black friends, etc, so I'm not racist against them

Your mum sounds a little harsh. Something like what CR suggested should give her a good kick out of the 18th century and into 'now'.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 06:34
Hi eses!

Had some time to drop by, I can't exactly post as much as I used to.

To the w*nks going on about Islam and Religion: Please sod off. Not kidding. You know why.

Now...
Thanks for sharing advice and stories!

My Mom is not necessarily "racist" against asians. I wouldn't really say that. She just doesn't look at them with perhaps the fair respect she should.

I don't feel like talking her into anything. It's far too late for that. Things will probably turn for the worse, and my might as well face it and just prepare to go out on my own. I don't get put down easily, but both living with my mom and ignoring her at the same time while she just thinks of me as lowly crap is a tad hard.

Quote: "
Hey hey, it's an attitude that can be from anywhere. When discussing racism, let's get it straight that it's not only white people who have issues with other races."


But from the point of ignorance, you gotta admit North American white folk take the Nobel prize. Ask a bunch of American high schoolers the difference between North and South Korea? A bizarre amount will make some funky crap up. Other people know 10 times more about our country than we do about theirs.

tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 06:48
I know, sorry, I just had to say what I said and enough. I do feel calling people w*nks was a bit unnecessary, though. But not to go into that too.

America is just a country that is well known. I reason that racism is global, because 'pride' and culture are built into humans. Everything that's different is odd by default - so, our mind (ratio) needs to compensate for instincts. That is for me an explanation why less-educated tend to be more racistic than high-educated.


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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 07:10
Quote: "But from the point of ignorance, you gotta admit North American white folk take the Nobel prize."


Ignorance, agreed Racism however is something instilled in every heritage across the globe.

Vancouver is like Toronto but a bit smaller--- we have more Asians in the city here than white people (or at least it feels that way). I fully believe this is why I have a thing for Asian women

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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 07:12 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 07:14
Rami:
Hehe. I don't mean any of the over-the-top stuff I say (as the old regulars on here know me) I just do it as a good way to get attention for particular cases like these. Don't mind you guys debating that stuff, just not here.

Quote: "I fully believe this is why I have a thing for Asian women"


More power to ye bud.

Grandma
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 09:45
@ Gil

Quote: "unless Grandma would like to comment"


Nah, i'm fine thank you.

@ Aikicat

Quote: "To the w*nks going on about Islam and Religion: Please sod off. Not kidding. You know why."


I'm sorry if i offended you, it was not my intentions to offend anyone. I don't have anything against islam, me and Gil were'nt generalizing muslims if that's how it seemed for you. We were discussing people who ARE generalizing. We were also discussing crazy muslims (or muslim-ish). (Yes, there's crazy people of all religions. Like crazy christians, jews and ....buddhists (right Seppuku?).

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HWT
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 13:13
Its amazing - in spite of our agreeable dislike to racism we still refer "asian" women or "white" women or "black" women - da di da di da!

This whole freaking world is just one huge high-school popularity contest. Aie aie aie! - por for bor!

Of course, all we have to do is realise our mortality i.e. we are going to die someday!!! End of story - no save game/load game in this life - just one shot. It could be in the next 10 mins or 5 seconds or 5 decades - point is, if you knew you were going to die tomorrow would you stand around spewing racial slurs or trying to make other races feel bad by giving them the stink-eye? Didn't think so.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 13:14
I'd like to say Jeku made a point to my post, though I wish it were not so, but it is.

Also, complements to talking about religion and politics in a mature way without getting the thread locked.

Quote: "(Yes, there's crazy people of all religions. Like crazy christians, jews and ....buddhists (right Seppuku?)."


Yeah I saw one when I looked in the mirror this morning...

Anyway, Megaton, it sounds like a difficult situation still, is there anyway for her to respect your decision as a son rather than as a 'white boy making himself inferior'? I mean blood is thicker than water right? But I can see this is all old opinions of an old society she was brought up in and how she will not change because it's a part of her, so I suppose it sounds like you who is having to make the sacrifice for what you truly want, which is a bit of a pickle. Best of luck to you.

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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 16:48
How did this get religious?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 16:51
Doesn't matter, it's over now.

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Pyramid Games Ltd
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 17:07
Really? Thank God this didn't turn into a religious topic.

Grandma
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 17:16
Quote: "Thank God this didn't turn into a religious topic."




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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 21:17
Quote: "Its amazing - in spite of our agreeable dislike to racism we still refer "asian" women or "white" women or "black" women - da di da di da!"


I hope that's a joke It's impossible to not see colour physically. And I appreciate being white, and my wife appreciates being Asian. That's one of the things that makes life so good and amazing--- various people sharing the world and being equal, but looking different.

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