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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBpro

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dbellis
21
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 12:04
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Im a long dedicated fan and user of DB most of you all new me as Dreamstalker bein here since ver 103 (DarkBasic Classic) so this is not just a flame im just seriusly not inpressed with DBPro i mean i get 14 FPS in DBPro with this Code


sync on
sync rate 0

do
cls
set cursor 0,0 : print screen fps()
sync
loop


but in DB Classic i get 60 with the same code


sync on
sync rate 0

do
cls
set cursor 0,0 : print screen fps()
sync
loop

what the hell is going on Lee & Co ive respected and loved using your creations but this is not gonna cut it you need to do sommet about this or i will send DBPro Back and before i get flamed its not a bug just very poor speed

Damian Bellis
AkA Dreamstalker

p.s. sorry bout the spelling but i am dyslexic.
http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
Succession The Betrayal Developer
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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 12:35
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In DBPro I get 178, which is the maximum frame rate my PC can do at the default resolution.

In DB I get 80.
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Thade!
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Location: Austria
Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 12:47
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DBpro here: 319 - 321 ! thats an average of 320 fps - it has still a lot of bugs - but speed is not the problem with DBPro
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gbuilder
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Location: New Zealand
Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 12:56
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Here is a suggestion..
Add set display mode..like

set display mode 800,600,16
sync on
sync rate 0

do
cls
set cursor 0,0 : print screen fps()
sync
loop

Make sure this is the display mode that your computer is already in.

gbuilder.

Life is a game.
AMD900mhz,256mb Ram,64mb Shared SiS Video.
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dbellis
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 13:52
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ive ran this on 2 pc's with pretty much same results


pc-1

Pentium 4
1.3ghz
256mbDDR ram
Ati Rage pro grafix card 128mb
windows xp ( )
direct x 8.1
resulution 800x600

i get 140 DB Classic

and 90 DBPro

second pc
pentium Celeron
633mhz
64mb SD ram
on board grafix card (As its Text This Dont Matter)
direct x 8.1b
windows ME
screen 800x600

i get 14 fps DBPro
60 FPS DB Classic

See it should be the other way round lol

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
Succession The Betrayal Developer
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Kensupen
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 15:22
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I ran this on my PC and I get 481 FPS.
And, I see what your problem is. ATI Rage cards suck under DX 8.1. It's a known problem. Onboard video is usually a crappy chipset.

Even though it's just text, the video card still has a big part because of DX. ATI Rage does OK under DX6/7 which is what DBV1 is. When you upgrade to DX8, you need a min a GeForce 2MX or better or ATI radeon 32MB or better to get ANY kinda speed outta it. DX8 drivers are very picky. Speed is a balance of the card itself and how well the drivers are written.

-Kensupen
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Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 16:43
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Never mind the PC spec - what mode are you running in? Fullscreen exclusive? Window? What res, what bitdepth? All will have far more of an impact. DBV1 will use 640x480x16 bit unless you tell it otherwise, in full-screen exclusive mode. DBPro won't.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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exLRT
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 16:57
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I tested that code on my laptop [Acer TravelMate736TLV - ATI Rage Mobility 8Mb](the machine is running an Oracle database and a ColdFusion server) in window mode (640x480x16) and I got 60FPS...which is incredible as this machine hardly support Direct3D!!!

Ulric
ASUS A7M266 - AMD Athlon 1.4GHz - 512MB DDR266 - CreativeLabs GeForce4 Ti4600 - Windows XP Pro SP1
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Megaman X
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 24th Oct 2002 04:51
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U wont believe on this bud:

My specifications are the followings:

Intel Pentium IV, 2 GHZ ( yeah yeah, AMD is faster... How sad I am )
256 DDRAM
Geforce 4 MX 440 - 64 megas ( U may say its crap, but I run GTA 3 smoothly at highest resolution ).

The results running in full screen mode at 800x600x32 were:

DarkBasic = 63 fps
DarkBasicPro = 60 fps

Though, I could reach over 270 FPS running one of DBpro demos ( that sliding water or something like that ) And somes DB exemples ( Like the Ski Demo ) runned REALLY FAST...
So maybe is something wrong with the way DBpro is printing the fps??? I think the creators could post a reply here...

Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 04:58
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Oh yeah, b4 anyone ask my OS = WinXP Pro, DirectX = 8,1
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 10:48
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i run all tests in 640x480x16 bit in full-screen exclusive mode in both DB Classic and DBPro and i see above it aint just me that are having a few speed issues Rogue's pc should deccemate my FPS tests but cant seem to but i also think he might be right with the FPS part maybe a bug with the timer

Damian Bellis

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
Succession The Betrayal Developer
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indi
21
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 24th Oct 2002 11:23
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I wait for new speed enhancements soon and test again with a full version thats updated with the latest patch.

if your card seems to be a lone ranger then u can always email the DBS team and ask them if your card is support well and you yourself have updated to the lastest drivers.

btw

DB1 v113----------------100 fps
DBP Patch2full----------200 fps

PIII 933
512 ram
tnt2m64 32meg
win98se

http://www.lunarpixel.com/ is my new site
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indi
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 11:24
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hehe typos

http://www.lunarpixel.com/ is my new site
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exLRT
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:26
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It's written somewhere in the doc that the "full screen windowed mode" is faster than the exclusive mode". Why do you want to use exclusive mode?

Ulric
ASUS A7M266 - AMD Athlon 1.4GHz - 512MB DDR266 - CreativeLabs GeForce4 Ti4600 - Windows XP Pro SP1
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exLRT
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:29
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I tested your code on the machine described in the signature below.

Using exclusive mode (640x480x16), I got: 75 FPS
Using fullscreen windowed mode (640x480x16), I got: 780FPS

Do you see the difference???

Ulric
ASUS A7M266 - AMD Athlon 1.4GHz - 512MB DDR266 - CreativeLabs GeForce4 Ti4600 - Windows XP Pro SP1
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:30
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um to keep the tests fair and it aint faster on this pc its acturly alot slower

go Figure

Damian

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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exLRT
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:35
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I don't understand what's unfair in using the faster method available.

I tested the same .dba file on the same machine but compiled with DB1 (V113) and I also got 75 FPS

Ulric
ASUS A7M266 - AMD Athlon 1.4GHz - 512MB DDR266 - CreativeLabs GeForce4 Ti4600 - Windows XP Pro SP1
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The One Ring
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:48
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I tried this test in 800x600x16 fullscreen exclusive mode in both.

DBV1 - 820 FPS (MAX)
DBPRO - 1167 FPS (MAX)

The number changed a lot, but that was the peak I would hit. So far, EVERYTHING I've done in DBPro runs faster than classic...

AMD Athlon 900 768MB DDR
ATI Radeon 64MB DDR All-In-Wonder 7500, ATI XPert 128 16MB
Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer w/FireWire Support
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:52
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i do now if lee can get it running fairly fast on this pc it will run good on any as this damn celeron sux lol

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:54
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to do a fair speed test beetween 2 products you need to routhly use the same features and barre in mind that DB 1 runs sweet as a nut on this pc and DBP does not in any mode
that is my point...

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:59
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also u are testing that code on a pc witch is so different to this one bare in mind the GEFORCE4 part of your signiture not every one has one of these and if your developeing a game you have to develope for all video cards on board or not you cant say

min specs
pentium 3
600 mhz
Geforce 2/3/4 (as it runs good on these cards)
64mb ram

as your market has now just bein ripped in half even into a quter so its a bit unfair to test stuff on a high end pc when ALOT of ppl have low end pc's and say well it works fine for me..

what works for you wont work the same for other ppl


Damian

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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exLRT
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 16:13
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I completly agree with you. In fact, I didn't see you are developing a game. I though you were just trying to put DBPro on the knees!!!

It seems indeed that nVidia GPU are better supported by DBPro than the ATI ones. Perhaps a driver problem?

Ulric
ASUS A7M266 - AMD Athlon 1.4GHz - 512MB DDR266 - CreativeLabs GeForce4 Ti4600 - Windows XP Pro SP1
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 16:39
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Yeah weve bein developeing the game for nrly a year now and im starting to get concerned about the market that will be able to play the game with a decent frame rate and i also think that Lee and Mike have bein developeing the Engine on a system that has a nVidia Card on it so naturly it will work better on them cards where as im developeing on a very low end system with a on board graphics controler as if you can get a decent frame rate with a low end then you now that itl work on most systems not just high end

Damian

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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Dreamora
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 16:41
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1. try fastsync instead of sync
2. DO NOT USE DO - LOOP!!!!
for x=1 to 3
x=1
...
next x

is about 70 times faster!! try it

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Megaman X
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 18:01
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Well, mine is a Nvidia Geforce 4 card and I get really bad fps, so I will stick with the idea of a bug in the way the fps are being printed. However it does not matter if ur applications actually are running faster ( have u runned any DB demo? It runs REALLY fast for me, but eveyone knows the models and textures got messed up, but speed is not a problem). Sooner or later the buds will fix da thing. And I tested with the demo, not the full retail and patch 2 So...
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 21:31
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well that is a mystery umm do you have directX 8.1 installed? if not check your card and have a look at your settings and up date drivers if not then you could have a system compatibility prob if still no joy its DBPro

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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Kohai of UWDesign
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 22:01
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Glenn > You really have such low FPS ?? What 'SUCCESSION' has been coded in ? i thought it was in DBpro ...

I still think it's a Dx8.1 compatibility issue with older GFXCards ... Kevin PICONE had hard times running DBPro examples, as his Riva TNT2 didn't accept Windowed-Mode ( just kept crashing ) .. Things seems a bit stable now !
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dbellis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 22:11
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// Glenn > You really have such low FPS ?? What 'SUCCESSION' has been coded in ? i thought it was in DBpro ...


what the hell is that all about?

and yess it has now bein ported from DBClassic to DBPro if thats what you mean if not what do you mean lol

and i now older cards have probs but i seim to play other stuff like train sim etc fine and i can run Half-Life at a steady 30fps.

so i now this pc can run things at decent speeds with complex sceenes etc

just not DBPro weird aint it.

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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gbuilder
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 23:16
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This is quite a complex issue and I think it is a stumbling block for many who are wanting to use DBPro.
In DB1, the Display Mode is automatically 640,480 unless coded otherwise. In DBPro the Display Mode appears to be the Users current Display Mode unless coded otherwise.
What I have found on my machine (It has 64mb of onboard video) is that using the 'Set Display Mode' command will only operate at a reasonable FPS if One is aready in that Display Mode. What conclusions can be drawn from this...?

Last night I developed a work-around.
I created a small application in a C like language that I sometimes use which changes the Display Mode (also called the Screen Resolution) before the DBPro application starts. This ensures that the Display Mode is already in the required Mode before starting the DBPro application. I havn't found any problems with this work-around yet. It means that the pre DBPro application can also double as a Title Screen and Menu. I can easily have buttons etc. on it, and it can sit in the background while the DBpro content is working.
Using this work-around means that the FPS are always maximised.
If anyone is interested I will post an example for download.

gbuilder.

Life is a game.
AMD900mhz,256mb Ram,64mb Shared SiS Video.
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Shem
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 23:28
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My issues with all of these workarounds, from a professional point of view, is that it seems like it would be prohibitive to develop commercial games with DBPro. Let's face it...many consumers do NOT have DX 8.1 installed. From experience working with many different machines and student testers at the school I teach at, having to update the graphics card or other hardware/software before playing a game can be prohibitive.

With my system, I got 10 FPS with DX 7 on the "fast polygons" demo from the DBPro site on Pentium III 650 MHZ PC , 256 MB RAM, 8 MB VRAM. (DX 7).

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Megaman X
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 23:37
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I think the idea of gbuilder is great. But I start to doubt about a professional application being write in DBpro. It's just toooooooooo much work arounds ( read rick post about get image bug, where we must work around cause it gets the image weirdly ) Now work around with this, then work around with that...

Well, u may say I dunno how to use the program and so on bud, but the bugs are beating me MUCH more then the language...
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dbellis
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 01:02
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too many work arounds means you end up spending more time making a command that should work do what it supposed to do but then you end up spending less time making your game/app

Damian

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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Startopian
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 02:06
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620 DB Pro
75 DB Classic
I got 650 using the DB Pro Fastsync command.
DB Pro has no real speed issues, except the BSP stuff, which has got slower with the latest patch. Obviously I have a fast PC but the difference in FPS speaks for itself.

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gbuilder
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 06:22
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Well, obviously there must be issues relating to how to tap the speed of DBPro, or there wouldn't be so much discussion about it. No one is saying that there isn't plenty under the hood but I have tracked down a problem to the Set Display Mode command. I reakon there is a bug there which is effecting certain hardware.

gbuilder.

Life is a game.
AMD900mhz,256mb Ram,64mb Shared SiS Video.
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Khumba
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 08:23
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Woah, for _is_ faster than do. Here are my results: (btw, exclusive mode runs about half as fast as fullscreen desktop)

DO + SYNC: ~105
DO + FASTSYNC: ~110
FOR + SYNC: ~120

However, with this code, I could not escape out of the program and had to kill it (It still ran though):

sync on : sync rate 0
for i = 1 to 2
cls
print screen fps()
sync
i = 0
next i
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GCEclipse
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 12:45
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"// Glenn > You really have such low FPS ??
//What 'SUCCESSION' has been coded in ? i thought it was in
//DBpro ...

// what the hell is that all about?"

LOL! I think Kohai thinks you're me, Damian!

Yes, Succession is coded in DBPro but the speed test results I get are a lot faster. I feel certain your problem is the GFX card you have now.

On my PC DBPro has gotten faster with each subsequent patch and I understand that a new method of dealing with 3D models that is being worked on will make things still faster.

GC
http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 12:51
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When using full screen mode DB Pro uses vsync and this limits the screen updates to the refresh rate of your graphics card and monitor. So in 640 x 480 full screen if your graphics card and monitor refresh rate is 60 hz your screen fps will never go faster than 60.

When using windowed mode vsync is not used and the screen will be updated as fast as possible so this is why you can see frame rates in the 100s.

Mike
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The One Ring
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 17:57
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Does DBPro still use VSync if I turn this option off in my Video card settings? I turn off Vertical Sync on my ATI Radeon card Direct3D settings to gain maximum performance...

Just curious...

AMD Athlon 900 768MB DDR
ATI Radeon 64MB DDR All-In-Wonder 7500, ATI XPert 128 16MB
Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer w/FireWire Support
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Kensupen
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Posted: 25th Oct 2002 19:35
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Dreamflower,

I have tested using do/loop, for/next and while loops. On my PC I get 483 FPS locked using all 3, so a DO/Loop is just as fast as all the rest of them. And fastsync does absolutely nothing on my PC. Same FPS as sync.

-Kensupen
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