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DarkBASIC Discussion / [STICKY] Why Are People So Rude To Me?

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TDK
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Joined: 19th Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:34 Edited at: 21st Apr 2010 22:00
If you are looking at this then the chances are you have been directed here by a moderator (or other forum user) because you were not aware of one or more forum rules.

When you signed up for this forum you actually agreed to these rules, but new users seldom read them and then complain when they are enforced.

As this happens so often and mods are tired of typing the same thing in over and over again, this thread was created.

Consider it a guide on forum etiquette.

Please read it all because if you continue to disregard them, we do have the powers to place you back on post approval and even ban you from the forums if you are a repeat offender.


The TGC Forum AUP

This forum - like all others - has something called an AUP, or Acceptable Useage Policy. This contains the rules of the forum and to be honest, few people read it. You can find this forum's AUP here:

The TGC Forums AUP


Moderators (Mods)

If you break any of the rules, you can expect to be punished in some way by a 'moderator', whos job it is to apply the rules for TGC. Remember that mods do not make the rules - they only enforce them.

Punishments can include editing, locking or deleting your post for minor indiscretions to 'noob slapping' (going back to having your posts approved again for a period) and being banned from the forums for more serious cases.

Don't get involved in arguments with mods as it will get you nowhere - other than receiving an extension to your existing punishment.

Mods are human and can make mistakes so you can always email a mod if you don't know why a punishment has been applied, or wish to suggest an error has been made - but be polite as the mod you contact may not know anything about what has happened.


Approval Process

When you first join these forums, your posts will require approval. Once we know you are a trusted member you come out of approval. This is based on the number of posts you make - not the length of time you have been a member.

While you are in approval, your posts and new threads will NOT appear straight away. Be patient and wait for a mod to approve it. Do not post it again or you will end up with multiple posts.

Please note that mods have no control over when your approval period ends, so please don't contact them regarding this.


But I Didn't Break The AUP!

You can still annoy other forum users without breaking the AUP. A bit of common sense can avoid this. Here are a few things to look out for:


1. Read The Forums

When you first join a forum, you should spend an hour or so scanning through the boards and reading as many posts as you can.

Yes, there are thousands of posts going back many years and we wouldn't expect you to read all of them. But, you can narrow the possibilities down by being selective.

If you are using DB Classic, then you only have one board to deal with. There are numerous boards so you should easily be able to select which one is most likely to contain what you are looking for - regardless of the product you are using.

Doing this, you will benefit from seeing many questions which are asked over and over again and avoid the 'flames' if you were to ask them again!


2. Read The Stickies

At the top of each board are a number of highlighted threads called stickies. They are glued in position because they contain useful information and should be read before you post on the board in question. Doing so will avoid most of the nasty responses you may receive.


3. Use The Search Facility

Many users have been on these forums since the beginning of time. You won't believe how many times some questions have been asked before. Answering them over and over again can be extremely tedious and many members will tell you this in no uncertain terms.

At the bottom of every page of the forum are search boxes where you can type in a word or phrase and find if the subject has been covered on the forum before. In 99.9% of cases, if new users used the search, they would not need to ask their question. Doing so simply makes you appear lazy and other users will tell you where to go...

If you fail to find the answer to your question using the search, explain why what you found didn't solve the problem. Once people have seen that you have at least attempted to find a solution yourself they will be only too glad to help you.


4. Help Others To Help You!

(i) After typing your post and before hitting the Post Message button, READ IT!

Does it make sense? Can others read and/or understand your question? Have you supplied all the details required to answer it or are you leaving things for the reader to guess?

(ii) Supply as much information in your post as you can. "I get an error message when I try 'x'" or "When I do 'y', I have a problem with the angles" is simply not good enough!

If you get an error, state what error it is, along with any error number. If you have an angle problem, say exactly what that problem is.

Remember, we are not mind readers...

(iii) Supply a short code snippet that demonstrates just the problem you are having. Make sure it is fully working and will run just by copying it and pasting it into DB.

You don't need to supply your whole program. We really don't want to comb through 3000 lines of code when the problem is with a single line - especially when a few moments using copy and paste could have resulted in a 10 line code snippet which adequately shows your problem.


5. Be Realistic!

If you are new to programming, most users don't want to hear what you are going to write as your first game - especially if it's a MMORPG!

Lots of newcomers appear on the forums saying that's what they want to write and very few have an appreciation of the incredible amount of work involved for an experienced programmer writing a standard RPG - never mind the increased difficulties and cost of adding that wonderous 'MMO' on the front!

Very few who attempt one ever finish. All who attempt one as their first ever project are guaranteed never to finish!

If you are new and claim you are writing one, you are sure to get people telling you it's a bad idea. This is good advice, so don't be upset by the fact that people are telling you the truth now - rather than after you've wasted three months of your life trying to do the impossible!


6. Be Polite

The members on this forum are only users like you and owe you nothing. Making demands will get you nowhere.

Ask nicely for help and as long as you've followed the guidelines above you should receive plenty.

If English isn't your first language, say so and other members will know that what you put may not appear exactly as you intended - and make allowances.


7. Keep On Topic

Double check that you are posting on the correct board before hitting the Post Message button.

Don't make an off-topic post in the middle of a thread - start your own. This is called 'thread hijacking'.

Avoid making pointless posts when you can. If someone asks a question, how useful is it to post saying you don't know the answer??


8. Avoid Multiple Posts

Every post you make has an ID box on the far left which contains your avatar and location. Just below the location at the bottom you will see an Edit Own button.

If you think of something you forgot to add to a post, use the edit button to add it to your existing post. You can do this as many times as you want - especially if no-one else has added to the thread since you last posted.


9. Use Code Boxes

If you need to paste any DB code into your post, be sure to enclose it in code tags. This does two important things:

a) If the code snippet is long, it doesn't make your post long too. Everything is placed in a closed box which the user opens by clicking on it.

b) It keeps indentation in your code. Pasting directly into the post will lose all indentation.

To put your code into a code box, use either of these two methods:

(i) Paste the code, highlight it all with the mouse then click on the Code button.

(ii) Click the Code button to add an open tag, paste the code and then click the Code button again to add the close tag.


10. Use Sensible Topic Lines

"Pleeeeeeeeeeez Help......."

Good thread topic? Absolutely not!

The search facility searches post topics and relies on users making their post topics descriptive. So if you use topics like the one above, don't complain the next time your search returns little useful information!

Try to include the subject you are requesting help on in the topic line.


11. Say Thanks (or 'Don't Abandon Your Thread')!

If you ask a question and someone answers it, please return and post a thank you. Don't just read the answer and disappear as this is ignorant and really annoying as there's no way we can know if you've seen our answers to your questions or you've just wasted our time.

There are many threads on these forums where someone has asked a question. I've spent my time writing an example program showing how it's done and they have never come back. It's not the thanks I'm after, it's more a case of the fact that after all the work I did writing the code snippet, they never came back and looked at it. Or, if they did they were just plain ignorant.

Don't do it!


12. Don't Ask For Code

Other forum users will help you fix problems with your programs. They will NOT write programs for you - that's not the idea... To do so would simply discourage you from learning how to program for yourself.

The idea is that you LEARN to program in DB yourself and write your own programs.

It's common for someone to write a small program - called a code snippet - to demonstrate the subject you are struggling with, but no-one is going to write something for you to just drop into your own program and work. The idea is that you use the snippet to learn from and with that knowledge implement it in your own program yourself.

So, don't post an idea and expect someone to provide you with a DB program to do what you want - you will only get negative responses.

As a rule of thumb, never paste a piece of code that someone else has written into your own program if you don't fully understand how it works.


13. I Can't Program And Don't Know Where To Start

There are many, many tutorials on the forums - all aimed at users with different levels of experience. If you've never written a program before and bought DB with the aim of writing an RPG or FPS then you probably won't understand half of the tutorials on these subjects.

In short, put your RPG/FPS on hold for now and start at the beginning. It's like writing a book in a language you don't know - like Russian.

You need to learn the alphabet first, then the words and finally the grammar to put the words together to make sentences. Only then can you start putting in all the work to write the actual book.

There are a set of tutorial which show you the 'ABCs' of programming here:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=99497&b=10

Tutorials 1 to 4 assume you have never programmed before and apply to both DB Classic and DBPro.

When you have the basics, you should then start writing lots of smaller programs while learning the rest of the commands.


14. Please Avoid Shorthand ('Text Speak')

This is a forum and you are using a computer. Note that it doesn't say 'Nokia' on the side of it so it's not a phone!

Joking aside, text speak, although not specifically classed as 'not allowed' by the AUP, can be difficult for some people to read.

Unlike phone text messages, there's no limit to the number of characters you can type in a post on a forum, so there's no real reason to use it.

Bad spelling and grammar is something entirely different and others shouldn't pull you up over it. But 'ur', 'u', 'wot', 'l8r' and all the other endless possibilities should be avoided for the benefit of others.


15. Please Indent Your Code Snippets

Although this is really a programming style rather than strictly a 'netiquette' issue, you are more likely to get help from other users if your code is easy to follow.

Un-indented, it's messy, hard to read and you will be more likely to get negative comments.

Indented code makes a lot of very basic programming errors stand out and you will spot many of them yourself - often saving you from posting a silly question.

If indentation is a mystery to you, check out tutorial 2 here:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=99497&b=10


16. Do Not State Your Age

For internet safety reasons you must never put your age in your posts. If you do, mods will have no option but to edit it and because it contravenes the AUP, you could end up with a noob slap!


17. Please Use Reasonably Sized Images

As a consideration to other users of the forum who do not use 50 inch monitors running at a screen resolution of 4000x1000, please remember that linking to huge images absolutely wrecks the screen layout for the rest of us.

It actually widens the screen to fit in your over-sized image and the rest of us have to scroll the screen to read each line of every other post in the thread.

Please restrict your images to 640x480 or 800x600 if at all possible.


Please feel free to post a link to this thread if you see any newcomers posts which may cause them problems from more seasoned forum users.

Each item has now been numbered, so if it's only a single issue, you can now provide a number with the link.

TDK_Man

Insert Name Here
11
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 00:21
Nice one TDK. This'll limit the noobish posts we get round here... if you hadn'tt sticked it. No one sees to read stickies any more.
Nice title, by the way.

Your signature has been erased because combined with your bug animation is was over than 600x120--- understand now?
demons breath
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Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 00:38 Edited at: 13th Oct 2007 00:40
INH makes a good point. And the "read the stickies" point seems somewhat obsolete considering anyone reading this will presumably know that already.

But anyway it's a good idea for a thread. I should probably start following some of these rules

EDIT: and you didn't mention text speak. We were even talking about it earlier

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
luke810
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Location: United States
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 01:22
Quote: "No one sees to read stickies any more"


Well this is unlikely to get consistant posts to keep it towards the top and its something people really should read when they're new to the forums. Now people won't have an excuse for all the lame posts they've been making lately.

It must've taken you awhile to put this together, so thanks
TDK
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Location: UK
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 03:14
Quote: "This'll limit the noobish posts we get round here... if you hadn'tt sticked it."


It doesn't matter that people don't read stickies.

The idea actually was to create a post that mods (or anyone else to be honest) can post a link to in any thread where the OP is likely to receive bad responses.

It just saves us all the hassle of writing it in full each time.

Quote: "and you didn't mention text speak"


Corrected... and well spotted!

TDK_Man

demons breath
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Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 19:49
WOO! I posted my first link to this today

also, can you boldify the
Quote: "* Please Avoid Shorthand ('Text Speak')"
line because I keep missing it...

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Zombie 20
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Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 19:55
Very well done, hopefully this takes off, thank you for taking the time to write this TDK.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 20:46
Thanks, TDK. I'm sorry for my noobish posts when I joined here. From now on, I vow to ALWAYS scan, search, read older posts, and scan the stickies to see if I can find answers to my questions.
demons breath
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Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 23:01
Nice little bit of self-promotion there in the new additions TDK

Seriously though, this is really good. Not only does it help the beginners, it saves us all the effort of flaming them, because to be honest, sometimes you're just too tired to try and ruin someone's day

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Insert Name Here
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 13th Oct 2007 23:40
You included Russian! Wooo!


Zeus
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Location: Atop Mount Olympus
Posted: 17th Oct 2007 15:07
Nice TDK.

New Website! Check it out!
Zeus
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Location: Atop Mount Olympus
Posted: 17th Oct 2007 15:52 Edited at: 28th Oct 2007 14:28
[edit]

STOP reading my signature!
demons breath
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 17:08
There's not a problem with people asking simple questions. The problems are people who can't be bothered to type full sentences reposting questions which have been answered about 30 times over the past year. That's why there's this thread, to tell people to use the search function and use as good grammar as they are able to.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
luke810
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Location: United States
Posted: 17th Oct 2007 18:37
I see nothing wrong with this thread. It isn't insulting "noobs", it's telling people new to the forums how to act. They are always asking for codes, posting barely readable sentences, and filling up the forum with threads about previously asked questions. I think everyone here tries to help out new forum members, but its ridiculous when they have to explain the rules to every new member over and over again. Like TDK said, few people read the AUP, and some of the newer members consistantly break the rules. This way they merely have to refer someone to this thread and they no longer have an excuse for things like that.
TDK
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 23:10
Red Ocktober:

I understand your viewpoint, but I do think you are not taking this thread in the manner it was intended.

Quote: "this entire thread should be deleted... it amounts to nothing less than a general admonishment"


When you join any group, club, forum or whatever, there are guidelines or rules for acceptable behaviour. Are you saying that receiving a copy of those rules is an admonishment?

I don't think that's true.

I think the thread topic says it pretty well. All I've done is list some of the things that other forum users find annoying so anyone who reads this will know how to avoid people being rude to them.

Quote: "the forum rules are up for all to see"


There is the AUP page yes, but how many new users know where to find it - and if they do, how many bother reading it or even know they should? Having said that, where are the rest of the things covered in this thread to be found?

In reality you get users signing up and instantly ask a question which is answered in a thread six or seven below their own. They simply don't know what 'stickies' are or about the Search facility or the Edit post button - or some of the other things we all know about.

The result is lots of other users not being as polite as they should be in their replies.

Now, instead they can just point these new users to this thread so they can read about how to get the best out of the forums - and avoid flames from others.

TDK_Man

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 18:21
The AUP, swiftly followed by this thread, should be slammed into the screens of anyone who registers, just after they reagister.

the rabi and Nancy DrewG

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 18th Oct 2007 21:13
Quote: "the forum rules are up for all to see..."



While this is true, I think that the reason TDK started this is because hardly anyone reads the forum rules. No matter how many times they are told to.
calcyman
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 10:27
I want to highlight a particular rule:



And remember, respect these people:



Your signature has been erased by a hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional being (a mod)
Insert Name Here
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 20th Oct 2007 20:36
Quote: "And remember, respect these people:
"

I.e, bow down.

the rabi, Nancy DrewG and Sudoku Arts.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 20th Oct 2007 21:03 Edited at: 20th Oct 2007 21:05
Why are you against this thread? For your information, I don't remember receiving those 'rules' when I first registered!
However, I knew what to post and what not to post, because I've been on three other forums for the past year. All forums have similar rules: Stick to the Subject of the thread; don't use vulgar language; don't say anything inappropriate; if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. All forums have those basic rules. But lately, on a particular un-related thread, we've had all of those things that I just listed happen. It was this, I believe, that led TDK to start this thread: to remind people of the rules.
Sorry if I sound rude, I didn't intend for it to sound like that.
Sonic 91 Software
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Location: In a Cryptic Crossworld!
Posted: 20th Oct 2007 21:37
Nice thread, TDK. I've spent a long time away from the forums for whatever reason. I came back yesterday only to read a lot of threads where everyone is at each other throats, even for very trivial matters. OK, to be fair, a lot of posts are something like "I'm a noob, someone tell me how to make a MMORPG". Posts like that deserve to be flamed in a contructive way, but let's all be nice to each other, after all, we are here to create games, have fun and to help each other out. Of course there will be criticism, but let's keep it constructive.

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
Libervurto
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Location: On Toast
Posted: 21st Oct 2007 19:19 Edited at: 21st Oct 2007 19:20
I don't know what Red October's problem is?
When I joined I was scared to post anything because I didn't know what kind of posts you should make on here. A guide like this is good for noobs so they know they are ok to post something, and if they are flamed they can say "look at TDK's rules" or whatever its called.

Insert Name Here
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:22
Quote: "if you did understand my viewpoint, you would would see that need for such a thread is unnecessary... "

That statement's a little silly. That's like saying:
'I understand why you like them, but I really don't like ready salted crisps.'
'If you knew why a I like them, then you [u][/u]would like them!'

the rabi, Nancy DrewG and Sudoku Arts.

luke810
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Location: United States
Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 00:55
It's not like the thread is insulting anybody. TDK's guide is helping people new to the forum learn the rules. He is not "policing" them from high up in his saddle and he is probably on of the best DBC coders here along with Latch, so he doesn't need to be told to spend more time coding. I think we should be thankfull he took the time to sit and write this because most people are getting sick of repeatedly explaining the rules to new members, as I said before.
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 01:27
Quote: "I think we should be thankful he took the time to sit and write this..."

I'm with ya', Luke. We should ALL be thankful.
TDK
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 05:15
Apologies for making some of the above posts sound a bit strange but for anyone else reading this thread, the posters haven't gone mad - they are responding to posts made by a user who has been removed from the forums.

As these posts have been deleted, the continuity of the thread loses a little. But, this is a small price to pay to keep the forums a nice place to be!

TDK_Man

Don Malone
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Posted: 31st Oct 2007 13:37
My two cents, in a hurry before I head out the door. This thread makes the rules simplified. That alone makes it worth having and easier for new users to read and digest.

Thanks for this topic, TDK.

Making nothing for the forth straight year.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 31st Oct 2007 18:34
I'm guessing the user is Red Oktober, well oh well its still a shame.

Great job anyways TDK, we all appreciate it.

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

auto mail10
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 23:50
Moderators might be offended by people who aren't. I think so.
Pixelator
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 03:17
Nice Thread TDK, you must have spent alot of time on it. Though i can see why you took the time to write it. Remember Serjo Adjo anyone?


Maryville Game Developers
Visit our website at http://www.freewebs.com/maryville-game-developers/index.htm
demons breath
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 21:52
Remember him? Wasn't he back here the other week, under the alias Michael Jackson?

"A West Texas girl, just like me"
-Bush
Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 22:07
Indeed he was. Claimed not to be when the suggestion was put on the table but so blindingly obvious. Just couldn't wait a few more weeks for his ban to be lifted. So I wonder what the odds are of him actually returning in the new year as Serjo Adjo? And what are the odds of him writing Sim City 5?

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
Pixelator
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 23:29
Quote: "And what are the odds of him writing Sim City 5?"


He might not write it but when they make it he's shure as heck to rip it off.


Maryville Game Developers
Visit our website at http://www.freewebs.com/maryville-game-developers/index.htm
Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 09:30
Hello, my name Serjo Adjo, I code years experienc. Check new game out mine.All my code, no rip-of. My eglish langwage good not. I call game City sim 5. Downlod now, only $999.

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
Pixelator
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 18:25
Quote: "only $999."


$999!!! thats a steal!!! Id pay $9999 for your rip offs any day Serjo Adjo!!!!


NOT!!!!! lol


Maryville Game Developers
Visit our website at http://www.freewebs.com/maryville-game-developers/index.htm
Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 18:27


Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
EdzUp
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 21:34
Seems common sense really.

-EdzUp
TDK
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 14:16
Quote: "Seems common sense really."


Which for some strange reason a lot of new forum users seem completely devoid of...

TDK_Man

Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2008 18:47
Very true, TDK, very true!

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
Roses In Dreams
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 15:16
Common sense is not common. It should be implemented to any society including a forum community by the (forgot the appropriate term but something like)experienced-wise-considerate-elite-influential people. I hope you get what i mean.


Etiquettes should be implemented to establish a harmonious and orderly flow of necessary events in order to ensure a very productive and less straining environment.

Its just an opinion. You can fry me if you get bored. Its fine, im still a noob.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 18:40
Quote: "community by the (forgot the appropriate term but something like)experienced-wise-considerate-elite-influential people."


Big cheeses?


This image is purely work in progress.
Keo C
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 19:37
Quote: "experienced-wise-considerate-elite-influential people"

Mods.


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.

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