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Geek Culture / Your worst job?

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Arrow
21
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 03:53
"Global warming, greenhouse effect, none of it exists *rolls eyes*"

Really, then how might you explain all the recored breaking temparatures last year? Considering I've lived in the same place for a while I'm wordering why it never used to get up to 100F.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Ian T
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 04:01
It has. The earth goes through heat swings that last about 150 years, dipping up and then down. There are several books about this if you want to look. It's pretty obvious if you study history carefuly too-- in the middle ages, England went through two long times several generations apart where it was too cold to grow grapes for wine. If that was happening now, we'd have huge amounts of 'global cooling' crap all over and a lot of harebrained theories made mainstream to go with it...

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Misanthrope
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 06:26
8truths:

Cows are food. Before man came along, they were food for something else. They're certainly not good for much else, being one step from fungus on the intellectual ladder.

The only reason they're even alive in the first place is so the meat and milk stay fresh until Farmer Bob gets medieval on Bessie with a 11 pound sledge.

About the rest of the thread:

I love people who loudly complain about the world going to Hell on the A Train, nonstop, because of "environmental abuses". I really do. They're like the comic relief in a bad movie. I mean, sheesh, it's arrogant to assume that mankind's anything special.

We can't destroy the world any more than we can seal the Lincoln Tunnel with a tube of Preparation H, because nature's thrown far more awesome stuff at itself than mankind ever has. Asteroidal impacts, gigantic volcanic eruptions, and so forth...all measured in energy levels that make the entire nuclear arsenal of the world amount to less than a beer fart on a barren prairie.

I also love those wannabe coffeeshop Marxists who sit around talking about the revolution and how evil our capitalist system is. I'd like to see them shut up, put down their mocha lattes, and pick up a Kalashnikov. Oh, wait, that means they'll have to give up their bourgeois possessions and sentimentality...

I love Greenpeace. It's so heartwarming to see a boatload of activists protesting the existence of the oil rig that provides the 40 tons of bunkerage their ecoterrorist garbage scow belches into the atmosphere during their pointless little demonstrations. I also love when they whine about the permafrost. News flash: Permafrost doesn't give a shit whether or not it's disturbed. It's not sentient.

What also really warms my heart is when people get terribly excited about saving animals. I'd like to see them jump into a pit full of poisonous vermin and see how grateful all those scorpions, snakes, and spiders are for the human solicitude. News flash: The worth of a lesser species is proportional to your odds of survival in a face-to-face encounter. If you can't communicate with it, eat it, wear it, walk it in the park, or admire it in an aquarium, it doesn't deserve any solicitude.

It's amazing to me when I think about it, but the only things that separate humans from animals is the fact that humans are the only lifeforms on the planet that have an exaggerated sense of importance and actively try to defy the law of natural selection. And people wonder why stupidity is everywhere...

-Misanthrope
Ian T
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 07:25
You're working off the assumption that 'defying' what 'nature' throws at you is wrong. We are working for 'nature' just as much as any other animal. Our destruction of forests and rivers is the same thing, on a larger scale, as bears destroying beehives. *yawn*

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 07:33
Quote: "bears destroying beehives."


mmm.. honey..

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

8truths
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 09:37 Edited at: 20th Jun 2003 09:46
Global warming explained . . .

Global warming is a phenomenon produced by a bad data set, folks.

First, the data set for reliable, world-wide temperatures begins in the 1870s, 1880s. This is a good period to start if you want to make it look like temps are rising rapidly, because it follows a dramatic cooling following several major volcanic events, mosted noted of which was Krakatoa (sp?).

Obviously, there was a marked warming after this period, because the planet was as cool as it has been during the modern era.

Second . . . cycles, baby.

We still are far cooler today than we were before the Ice Ages started (but, we'll never be as cool as Fonzi in his prime). In some sense, we're still getting over the Ice Ages.

Plus, Don't forget that the entire interior of North America was once a shallow sea. We're still a long way from the Gateway Arch being a bouy.

Yes, it is markedly warmer today than 100 yrs ago. That's hardly a scientific data set, given the scope of our global timeline is 4-5 billion years.

Third . . . Where are most temperatures readings taken? Downtown of a metro, and out at the airport. There has never been a decades-long, world-wide project to check temperatures out in the middle of nowhere.

Fourth . . . There has always been a squealy bitch mentality among liberals (I consider myself a conservative socialist; in other words, a commie with a gun) . They latch on to any goddamned issue they can and hug it and cry about it the way 12 year old girls use a fixation with horses to develop the skill of grooming a mate.

It's a classic propensity of bored rich kids to treat "issues" as play things, and as a McGuffin for acting out a macro-scale Freudian fantasy of usurping their fathers (essentially, the Freudian ritual of killing one's father becomes killing the achievements of the older generation).

It makes them feel good. It makes them feel like a simple dietary choice empowers them to save the planet. This sense of power against the long odds of life is basically the basis of modern film fantasy. It just dumb kids, and the three our four dumb hippie adults who could never put it away.

Eventually, they will get over it. Look at the '60s generation. Today's youth violence is nothing compared to LA or Paris during the '60s. Even unorganized violenece today does not compare (check your Uniform Crime Stats).

And what has the '60s generation been up to? Enron, Iraq, and other oily substances. If the hippies can get over it and get 401k plans, vegetarians can eventually give up and start cooking soul food.

The odd fact is, the planet did not ask to be saved. In fact, if we really wanted to save the planet, we'd do our thing. There weren't any hippies asking the dinosaurs to please not usurp slower moving proto-mammals and reptiles and amphibians. They just did their thing.

We should do our thing, too.

And our thing is building and organizing, farming, war, breeding, killing, pooping, building piping to handle the pooping, and building poop treatment centers so we can send the poop water out to be pooped again and again and again.

If you can't accept that, would you at least start wrecking beaver dams -- they destroy ecosystems, too.

Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 11:21
how could you kill a deer? GRRRRRR

You didn’t kick them, you just pushed them with your foot at a very high velocity!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 11:30
Quote: "It was horrible and even weeks after finishing there I could still smell the place in my hair, in my room, everywhere.... it's virtual impossible to wash that dead chicken smell out!"

erm... that sounds weird to me hon, considering something you told me. :-s (probably misheard you at the time though knowing me)

as for the report... erm
Quote: "vegetarians have low mortality compared with the general population
much of this benefit is attributable to non-dietary lifestyle factors such as the avoidance of smoking and a high socio-economic status "


that was their best conclusion, how f**king stupid was that?
and for an extra 2years on adverage just for eating a few brussel sprouts for dinner/lunch/breakfast
if you only live once i'd rather trade in those 2years for something that tastes bloody good.

You know its funny but i'm yet to find a vegetarian that doesn't eat meat because they ACTUALLY don't like the taste of it ... my ex didn't eat chicken cause it made her throw up, and i don't eat fish because i'm not so fond of the taste (without it being in some fancy sauce)
but still most vegetarians don't grow up as such, it is a life choice then generally take when they're old enough to realise that a cow goes into a machine one end and comes out the other as steaks (well not quite but you know a teen's imagination lol)

Kids eat more sweets because they taste good, its the same reason they're more likely to eat meat over vegetables ... because to our palettes they naturally taste better.
Babies don't eat meat, because erm THEY DON'T HAVE TEETH! - sorry but i did have to issue that. They do happen to make meat based babie food, but mostly they make sweet food which is Fruit based because babies will always want to eat something sweet (because it tastes nice ) but as soon as they get teeth in you start them onto more solid food, all cut up really small for them (as they still don't have proper teeth in) ... as soon as a child is around 2years old they can (and most do) eat full meals, albeit still cut up but they are full meals.
(the ammount of parents here in this chat and NONE brought that up lol shame on you )

I mean so saying we're suppose to be vegetarians in any fashion or form is just crap ... i mean even all carnivores grow up on breast milk until they have teeth and can chew.

lol (^_^) it is all just a funny argument really isn't it?
it's stupid to say we're designed only as herbivores because we have traits which directly contradict such, and although we are no longer full carnivore (hense the lost use of our apendix) there was a time when we did not understand how farming worked and as such we lived off fruit & meat (because you didn't have to grow it) ... most vegetables are grown within the earth, i mean remember that certain things suchas Potates have only been discovered within the last 400 years and we have another 4,000 years of recorded history (not to mention the history even longer).

Vegetarianism is a funny thing in itself too, i mean most vegetarians don't do it because they truely believe it is a healthier life - they do it because they can't bare to think that chicken leg that is sitting in deep fried bread was actually walking around. Just think it wasn't that long ago that a consciounce of this degree was even considered ... no more than what 3-400 years back we believed we were doing people with the flu good by drilling into thier heads and letting out the bad spirits.

and it is extremely humourous the amount of people who'd happily save an animal but wouldn't do a thing to help a fellow person.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
Misanthrope
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 12:09
Mouse: "You're working off the assumption that 'defying' what 'nature' throws at you is wrong. We are working for 'nature' just as much as any other animal. Our destruction of forests and rivers is the same thing, on a larger scale, as bears destroying beehives. *yawn*"

That's a very interesting way of looking at it.

I hadn't considered defying nature to be wrong, per se...but rather that humans are actively working against natural selection via technology. Medicine is one example. The only reason I'm alive and well today is because a doctor decided to sacrifice my hearing in order to save my life when I was two and a half years old. Even as recently as 100 years ago, I'd very likely have died in the absence of practical diagnosis and medical treatment for spinal meningitis.

However, if you dropped me and a person with fully normal hearing in the middle of an inhospitable wilderness environment, I wouldn't bet money on my chances of survival compared to the other guy's. 100 years ago, natural selection would've culled me out of the gene pool entirely. Rather an unpleasant thought for me to consider, but true nonetheless.

On one hand, I'm grateful to be alive and able to be a contributing member of society, yet on the other hand it can be insanely frustrating at times to be unable to hear anything.

But anyway, that's what I meant by defying natural selection. Out of compassion and solicitude for our fellow man, we're constantly giving Darwin the middle finger. No other animal does that.

-Misanthrope
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 13:53
Damn stop writing so much Raven!

Ok right, Vegetarians i am fine with.

You cannot say it is against nature to eat meat casue other animals eat meat.

Vegans i have a problem with, what is wrong with milke products?

Please tell me no vegans are on these forums, is there are, why?

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
WOLFY
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 16:48
8truths,
Well written.

Misanthrope,
Humans are not working against natural selection by using technology. Humans are the worlds most dangerous predators because of thier intelligence. Any technological device that we use is just an extension of our most powerfull attribute, our smarts. Sure we aren't as quick as a cat, or as strong as a bear, but those are the tools that they have evolved. Our tool is just better in the long run.
If technology could cure your deafness, would you do it? I'm just curious because I've heard a lot of people with different handicaps saying that they would not be "cured" because that is who they are. Im just curious....
On another note, my wife and I taught our first child to use some basic sign language before he was able to talk. It is great because he was able to communicate with us before he was physicly able to speak to us. He was able to let us know if he was thirsty, or hungry, and say if he wanted more. I think it had to save a lot of frustration for him of knowing what he wanted without being able to tell us. My second child is turning one year old on Saturday and we have bee working with him on it too for a couple months now.

WOLF

HOOOWWWLLL!!!
The Communist
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 17:52
just a quick answear to why someone would want to be a vegan...

by drinking milk etc, you still support the animal industry, and so, indirectly, the meat industry.

now i'm not a vegan myself, but anyway.

oh, and the only thing that separates the human race from other species is the fact that we produce what we consume. instead of just getting to the river and drinking, or getting to a bush and eating berries, we boil the berries in the water and consume. and instead of sleeping on the ground in the forrest, we cut down trees and build houses and sleep in. we PRODUCE, which most other species don't.

Workers of all lands, Unite!
actarus
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 18:06
-by drinking milk etc, you still support the animal industry, and so, indirectly, the meat industry

What about us being mammal and producing our own milk?

For sure something good to a baby can't be that bad to a grown up plus we need calcium and vitamin D,the protein and the fat it provides.


-and instead of sleeping on the ground in the forrest, we cut down trees and build houses and sleep in. we PRODUCE, which most other species don't


God you are a very negative person,do you just look at the bad side??


2 years ago,North America made for the first time 10% more wood created/planted(by us) than consummed....Just have the rest of the world follow it and we'll talk ecology.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again?
the_winch
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 18:18
Quote: "The odd fact is, the planet did not ask to be saved. In fact, if we really wanted to save the planet, we'd do our thing. There weren't any hippies asking the dinosaurs to please not usurp slower moving proto-mammals and reptiles and amphibians. They just did their thing.
"


Don't all humans just do their thing?
Pehaps hippies have been usefull in the advancement of the human race.
Evil Noodle
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:30
Quote: "that was their best conclusion, how f**king stupid was that?
and for an extra 2years on adverage just for eating a few brussel sprouts for dinner/lunch/breakfast
if you only live once i'd rather trade in those 2years for something that tastes bloody good."



The point is was making was that eating a vegetarian diet didnt increase mortality.

Quote: "You know its funny but i'm yet to find a vegetarian that doesn't eat meat because they ACTUALLY don't like the taste of it ... my ex didn't eat chicken cause it made her throw up, and i don't eat fish because i'm not so fond of the taste (without it being in some fancy sauce)
but still most vegetarians don't grow up as such, it is a life choice then generally take when they're old enough to realise that a cow goes into a machine one end and comes out the other as steaks (well not quite but you know a teen's imagination lol)"


Infact Raven that is one of the reasons I dont eat meat. The taste and texture. I know I know ,youll all say 'but there are so many kinds and different textures'. But its just the way I feel. I have a very active job ,quite a hectic lifestyle ,I do sports and I feel physically and mentally sound(well maybe not at 5.30 on a cold dark damp winter morning). If it becomes in some way a necessity to eat meat then I will do so, Im up for survival as much as the next man, but until then im quite happy.

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
Evil Noodle
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:40
@Misanthrope

STINGING CANCER: Researchers at the City of Hope Medical Center near Los Angeles and the University of Alabama at Birmingham are studying a particular strain of scorpion venom as a possible treatment for brain cancer. Glioma tumors make up two thirds of malignant brain tumors, and are almost always fatal. The average prognosis for a patient with a stage-four malignant glioma is just 55 weeks. One reason that gliomas are so deadly is that they tend to invade surrounding brain tissue, making complete removal through surgery very difficult. Chemotherapy and radiation typically prove equally inadequate.
Researchers studying the venom from the Israeli yellow scorpion noticed something significant about the compound. When injected into the brains of glioma patients, the toxin rapidly adhered to the cancer cells, but did not bond to healthy tissue.

Still want to wipe them out? or should the sick just die because they have obviously failed in the 'battle for survival'.

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
Evil Noodle
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:45
YEAH INFFACT LETS GET RID OF ALL SPIDERS:-
Benefits to humans- In addition to reducing local disease-carrying insects, spiders provide humans with other medical benefits. Spider venom is used in neurological research and may prevent permanent brain damage in stroke victims. The silk produced by spiders is used in many optical devices including laboratory instruments.

OH AND THOSE PESKY SNAKES:-
Besides the obvious benefits of snake venom to produce antivenom, have there been any other breakthroughs in medical research? There have been many early results from research that gives promise on many medical fronts. In France, an enzyme derived from copperhead venom may hold an answer to treatment for breast cancer. Ingredients from the venom of a Malayan pit viper has shown promise in breaking blood clots that would be very beneficial in treating stroke victims. Enzymes from cobra venom may hold the keys to finding cures for Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease. Some viper venom seems to hold the secrets to curing osteoporosis and promoting tumor reduction. Several venom extracts have shown possibilities that could lead to the production of anticoagulants that would be helpful in treating heart disease. Proteins from certain rattlesnakes has produced blood pressure medicine. Ingredients from the red-necked spitting cobra has provided clues to breaking down cell membranes that would provide treatment for leukemia and cancer. It is obvious that these very complex enzymes derived from snake venom could produce potentially huge medical benefits for mankind .

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:46
if they founded the cure for cancer earlier, the original first Captain Marvel wounldn't have died.

(wtf is Solidz talking about?!?)

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Evil Noodle
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:49
Lol

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 19:59
If we all start eating Rabbit food then the Rabbits would die of starvation.

Pneumatic Dryll
Evil Noodle
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 20:06
and we wouldnt have anything to hit in our cars

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
actarus
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 22:07
-if they founded the cure for cancer earlier, the original first Captain Marvel wounldn't have died.

(wtf is Solidz talking about?!?)


Yeah but Spiderman couldn't have punched the Hulk's butt into orbit(A.S-M#327)...

Now what am I on about myself anyways?

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!

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The Communist
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:01
Quote from actarus:
God you are a very negative person,do you just look at the
bad side??


no, i don't see that as negative at all. producing stuff is good. and cutting down trees is in some cases necessary. and it doesn't damage the environment at all if you do it reasonable amount.

Workers of all lands, Unite!
8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:24
"Pehaps hippies have been usefull in the advancement of the human race."

Yeah, but, then by that standard, if I get wasted and club a few hippies with a vibrator, aren't I just doing my thing?

There's a point at which this sort of rhetoric is done by reduction to absurdity. The argument does not cease to valid simply because it can be transmitted to both sides.

Plus, this ignores the fact that so many of the former hippies now are watching the stock market, eating red meat, supporting the military-industrial complex, and sticking with their steady cocktails of legal drugs like Paxil and Zanac and Zoloft and other things that sound like the names of comic book villan.

Today's vegetarains are just tomorrow's next bunch of sell-outs.

It's much better to skip being pretentious, save your blood pressure level, and sell-out young.

Solidz Snake
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:33
Spiderman punched at Hulk's BUTT into orbit?
i never knew the power of radioactive spider is better than gamma rays exposure.

Anyway, i still prefer the old Captain Marvel, compare to the latest one. The old one still have the human looks (though he's a Kree). The new one looks like Nightcrawler with Thor's body, though he still maintains his Cosmic powers shown on his face. Creepy white hair dude..

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Evil Noodle
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:34 Edited at: 21st Jun 2003 00:34
@8truths
what a load of cack

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:34
oh yea, the HULK movie kickz azz, amigos!

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 02:10
Quote: "by drinking milk etc, you still support the animal industry, and so, indirectly, the meat industry"

so why do they not eat goats cheese or drink goats milk (which is pretty tasty, not as good as full fat pastured milk though)

Quote: "and it doesn't damage the environment at all if you do it reasonable amount"

one tree takes around 70years to grow to a level where it produces the same ammount of oxygen ... this means that if you chopped down a single tree every day but planeted a new one in its place - it would be a single lifetime before the balance of the forrest would be restored.
Within a 70year perioud of 1 tree a day then we would loose 25,535 trees before the first one is old enough to reproduce oxygen on the scale that the old tree was.

that is just from a single logger over a 70year period chopping down a single tree.
technically the balance is sort of restored and because trees are plants they drop many seeds into the ground which create new trees of become food for little animals.

However if you start to overweight this balance but destroying 1 acre of trees (around 600trees to an acre) ...
600 x 25535 = is 15,321,000 - thats 15million trees before the first is producing oxygen to the same level again.

which is close to 3% of the worlds oxygen production, oki that might not seem like much - but they wouldn't stop there.
personally i think if they want to chop down trees for use what they should do is get some of that Genetical Manipulation research to some bloody good use and develop a gentical tree which grows faster specifically for the task of being used for logging.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
The Communist
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 02:51
good point raven

Workers of all lands, Unite!
8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 03:42
Honestly, we're all a little too attached to existence. It is overrated for something I didn't even ask to receive.

The planet is screwed. Sure. We're all doomed, and why should a rock get out of that deal if I can't?

The planet has had a good run. Let's beat it up and take its milk money.

Time for a link . . .

http://www.vhemt.org/

Arrow
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 03:50
Quote: "The earth goes through heat swings that last about 150 years, dipping up and then down. "
I think you're talking about solar cyles, which last 11 years. As far as I know (not much but it still counts) it takes a great event to shift weather pattern as much as was before and after the ice age, it don't happen on a set cycle, at least not one we can understand.

Quote: "We are working for 'nature' just as much as any other animal. Our destruction of forests and rivers is the same thing, on a larger scale, as bears destroying beehives."
A) There are no animals that eat entire trees.
B) The bear/beehive ratio is a bit more fair than the human/tree ratio. One bear, one bee hive. One human, 100+ trees. I see a problem.

In any case I'm not worried about humans destroying the world (very unlikely) or kiiling off everything that lives on it (slightly more likely). Even if all the atomic weapens were placed evenly over dry land and were detonated killing all surface life, there's still the sea. There have been studies showing that sea life returning to normal only a year after a nuclear bomb was detonated in that area. Life will contenue no matter what we do, I don't think we can unintentional kill all of the life on this planet (maye intentionally but that's a diffent story). What bothers me is the fact we're killing our own habitat, it may be graduale but we're doing it. I'm kinda wondering what the energy commpanes are gonna do once all the natural gas in about ten years, it should be fun.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 03:57
The next ten years?! Get your facts straight.

Solidz Snake
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 04:51
Quote: "what the energy commpanes are gonna do once all the natural gas "____________" in about ten years"


There's no straight facts. He didn't mention it.


Quote: "A) There are no animals that eat entire trees."


I *cough*saw*cough* a vegetarian T-Rex ate a whole banana tree! lmao! (jk!)

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 05:03
-- what the energy commpanes are gonna do once all the natural gas "____________" in about ten years --

C'mon. He just forgot to type something. And he surely didn't intend to fill in that blank with "appears conveniently in limitless supply".

Misanthrope
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 07:00
Wolfy:

"Humans are not working against natural selection by using technology. Humans are the worlds most dangerous predators because of thier intelligence. Any technological device that we use is just an extension of our most powerfull attribute, our smarts. Sure we aren't as quick as a cat, or as strong as a bear, but those are the tools that they have evolved. Our tool is just better in the long run."

My point was that man ignores survival of the fittest on a "local" scope at a rate proportional to his technological ability (and I'm living proof of that), whereas nearly every other species of the planet has no such pretensions. That's what separates man from animals in my opinion. People build hospitals, elephants don't.

If you prefer, you can read "ignores survival of the fittest" as "helps the unfit become fit to survive rather than allowing them to be culled". I'm not just saying that to anger people like Evil_Noodle (who looks for the most antagonistic interpretation in the comments of others rather than ignoring semantics for content), but rather to illustrate an interesting and important difference between humans and animals.

"If technology could cure your deafness, would you do it? I'm just curious because I've heard a lot of people with different handicaps saying that they would not be "cured" because that is who they are. Im just curious...."

You bet. In a heartbeat. I've met a lot of deaf people who believe exactly what you just mentioned, and they're actually PROUD to be deaf. Personally, I don't see a handicap as being something to take pride in. I'd rather be able to use a telephone anywhere and communicate perfectly with strangers on the street than take pride in something that keeps me from fully functioning in society.

"On another note, my wife and I taught our first child to use some basic sign language before he was able to talk. It is great because he was able to communicate with us before he was physicly able to speak to us. He was able to let us know if he was thirsty, or hungry, and say if he wanted more. I think it had to save a lot of frustration for him of knowing what he wanted without being able to tell us. My second child is turning one year old on Saturday and we have bee working with him on it too for a couple months now."

I've heard of people doing that and found it very interesting and neat in a lot of ways. You're the first person who I've "met" who actually does it, though.

-Misanthrope
Misanthrope
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 07:32
EvilNoodle:

(snip brainless "Save The Vermin" rant)

So what? Nicotine's also been tentatively shown to reduce the risk of Alzheimer's. It doesn't necessarily mean everybody should run out to the store and buy a pack of cigarettes. The "Save a Brain, Smoke a Fag" public awareness campaign isn't likely to start anytime soon either.

I grew up in the California desert. I've seen people end up in the hospital from scorpion stings and spider bites. I've found rattlesnakes and scorpions hanging out as little as five feet from people's homes. I've also seen scorpions running around inside people's homes like cockroaches after dark, under ultraviolet light.

I've also been stung by a scorpion once. It somehow got onto my shirt when I went from the house to the garage to check on the laundry. I thought I had a splinter sticking in my upper arm and tried to brush it off. That's when I discovered the scorpion on my left shirt sleeve.

I've met people who have had to move all their furniture away from walls and place the legs of beds and other furniture items into mason jars filled halfway with a boric acid and water mixture to kill poisonous spiders and scorpions that try crawling up the legs. I've been less than two feet from a coiled rattlesnake on at least one occasion. Fortunately, I wasn't bitten.

I've lived around those skittering, scuttling, and slithering little things for most of my childhood, and I've seen far more harm, annoyance, and fear caused by them than any sort of good. It's also kind of hard to see any redeeming value in stinging or biting vermin when you've seen a stung little kid swell up like a balloon from anaphylactic shock.

So as far as I'm concerned, I don't care if scorpions, snakes, or spiders shit half-pound bricks of 24 karat gold or hold the secret to Utopia...they're vermin and the only solicitude they deserve is swift extermination.

It's usually the silly idiots who've never had to live with vermin on a daily basis that plead for human compassion and conservation.

I bet you'd find something good about sewer rats as well, and I'll also bet you've never seen a baby missing portions of several toes, fingers, and parts of its ears because the landlord's too cheap to hire a proper exterminator.

-Misanthrope
bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 08:39
i dunno if this has been said...

But some animals do know that they are about to be butchered... Cows do not... they'll just line up and one after another will get a rod through their heads...and they'll never see it coming...

Pigs on the other hand... they see their brethering getting their heads smashed in and they will start squealing and trying to run away...no where to go though...

BTW, mmm I could go for a nice juicy steak right now... even though it is kinda a bad way to go....

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Software Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dbsgroup/
8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 09:18
Anyone ever dissect a pig? We did fetal pigs in HS. Also (I am not bullshitting) our school owned a human fetus. The story we were told by our bio teacher was that it predated current laws, and therefore was kosher (unlike the pig, right?).

gbuilder
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 09:28 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2003 07:59
The worst job I ever had was cleaning toilets, night shift at a University. Yuk!

As regards Vegetarianism, when I was young I was told 'Eat your meat or you won't grow up strong'. Man that was a lie. There are plenty of ways to ingest protein without eating the bum, brain or guts of some poor beast. Many trees and plants actally invite people to eat parts of them in order to spread. Fruit seeds is an example, Tomato seeds will go right through a digestive system. Many leafy plants like to be pruned, it gives their root systems an opportunity to expand.
I weaned myself off meat and felt much lighter and calmer, able to code better too..

gbuilder.

AMD900mhz, 256mb Ram, 64mb GForce2 MX400 Graphics card, Windows ME.
Arrow
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 19:27
"Quote:

what the energy commpanes are gonna do once all the natural gas "____________" in about ten years"

There was no "____" in my post Solidz.

They've been saying America will run out of Netural Gas around 2010 sinse the 70's.

"The "Save a Brain, Smoke a Fag" public awareness campaign isn't likely to start anytime soon either."

Esspecialy in the US, fag is another slang for gay here.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Shadow
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 19:40
We need to establish balance between human endeavour and helping the environment.

@Raven - drilling holes in the skull IS beneficial. It releases pressure on the brain. Think I'll stick to aspirin though.
8truths
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 21:01 Edited at: 21st Jun 2003 21:02
What is the need for this balance everyone talks about?

There has yet to be one dead animal complain . . .

the_winch
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 23:08
It would balence out with out input from humans. Who knows if it's possible to disrupt the balence so much that the world ends. Unless we turn the planet into a cloud of dust or break the sun.

We can cut down the rainforrests and turn them into deserts but they must have been deserts before there where plants.
The Communist
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 01:17
the_winch just gave me an idea:

let's take all of the nukes in the world, put them in a spacerocket made out of a new kind of metal that can take extremely high temperatures, and send it straight into the sun! in that way we'll BOTH disarm the entire world AND get rid of the greenhouse effect!

MOHAHAHAHAHA!!!


(or maybe not)

Workers of all lands, Unite!
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 01:43
that sounds like Sup's plan when he approach the UN..

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

8truths
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 04:25
On "Mr. Show" didn't they blow up the moon with nukes?

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 05:25
Quote: "What is the need for this balance everyone talks about?"


i'll give an example here, no doubt most will disagree but Life is a true balance ... although i don't believe in Karma or such, there is an intert force around us that causes the universe to balance when you tip the scales in your favour.

I know that a few people here take martial arts, and although most here will see it as just another form of fighting - when you get beleow the violent surface you see that there is many things at play which will be the difference of you being a good fighter and a great fighter.

The first thing you will learn are moves, no matter what you do or waht form you take, it is noticeable that you learn quickly that for every action you take there is a reaction you must take as well.
For example if you try to punch someone, you much lunge to shift your weight but hit or miss them you have to also make sure you can shift yor weight again else you will loose your balance and fall fall on your ass.
The next thing you learn is that for every move you make there is a countermove which can stop it ... this means although you may know everysingle attack there is, there will always be a block for it and also there is a counterattack.
When you get down to fighting it isn't the fact of actually technically knowing and understanding the moves by playing a partner to your opponent, if you reaction to thier every move it balances out everything that happens ... as soon as that balance is lost your have. (this is why there are usually no real winners in a street fight with a chaotic adaptation, both parties will always come off pretty badly)

The deeper into your training you go you also learn that you mind is like a locked safe, with dedication you can create a key to unlock it which opens the door to a whole new level.
(a bit to zen for ya? oki maybe it was hehee)
But the fact is when you train your mind to consentrate even under the most brutal pressure, you'll find that you can be more peaceful. This doesn't make you a flower picking hippie, rather it lets your soul (if you believe in that) be balanced and calm. Which can lead to overcomming alot of things, limitations on your strength and speed ... it never ceases to surprise me over the years that the calmest of people can not only see but react alot faster than those who are always hyped up. It is funny but a balanced mind can help to calm you even under the most intense situations, it lets you survive and overcome fears, it lets you withstant brutal punishment because you dwindle less on what ales you...
I mean christ i once say a man have his leg broken and its at that point you'd figure the match would've been over for him, but he slow stood to his feet - its that pure control of balancing out your mind & body that allows you to survive things in a pinch situation.
Adenalin may give you extra strength & stamina in a time of need but nothing compares to being able to focus and continue through just pure will. That balance is like playdough ... if something on you is taken away you simple remold what is left and you can continue, with a strong enough will you can push beyond what you'd think possible.
It is amazing exactly how much you mind will stop you from doing because of pure disbelief for a situation.

So what does all of that have to do with the balance of nature and everything else?
Remember what i said at the begining about every move has an action and a reaction ... science has an action and reaction ... every decision you make in life has a play and a consiquence.
Life is a whole balance ballet which alot of people are too blind to see, and that balance is always out to correct itself.

If human destoried all the resources on earth, you can bet your bottom dollar there would be a virus born which make the Bubonic Plauge look like chicken poop. The planet would wipe us out without hesitation to restore the balance.

(i wonder if anyone will call me a hippy after all that, lol)

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
8truths
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 08:37 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2003 08:39
Quote: "Life is a whole balance ballet which alot of people are too blind to see"


The world is the diametric opposite.

The world is constantly out of balance, and man's propensity toward anthropomorphism makes us unformfortable with how random the world is. Man prefers to organize, even in cases when organization is inferior.

Thus, we take a lot of what we feel about ourselves and life and put that onto nature, rather than confront the fact the that, while we may be apt to organize, that doesn't mean the rest of the world is.

What it comes down to is our fear that the world is far from static.

We want to believe we can do something to keep the world from changing, and therefore we convince ourselves that if we don't eat this or we don't drill that, then it will all be good tomorrow.

This ignores the most basic rule of nature -- competition, change, destruction -- these are good. Stasis is the most dangerous thing to life.

Spot me a Russian here . . . Bakunin? I believe it was Bakunin who said "The urge to destroy is a creative urge." Not really relavent, but a good quote none the less.

Nature gets by on rapid, destructive turns. There are periods in history when 95% of the spoecies on earth disappear in a few thousand years. Yet, life persists (if not becoming stronger).

Look at the animals we have lost or are close to losing . . . Dodos, pandas, koalas. Not exactly some of the "great leap" animals of history.

If man is worse than an asteroid or a volcanic explosion, then it is to life's benefit. Eventually, there will be a better set of animals.

Granted, those better animals may decided to kick our asses.

But, at least then people will take Planet of the Apes (Heston version, not the Marky Mark version) seriously. If the apes are smart, they will keep a few DVD and VCR players around and show Planet of the Apes to us and go "We got you dweebs, and you even saw it coming! Ha!"

That's all way past my lifetime, and even if it isn't, it sounds more fun than watching Wheel of Fortune.

And maybe it will all be wiped. And finally there will be peace.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 16:52
Quote: "The world is constantly out of balance, and man's propensity toward anthropomorphism makes us unformfortable with how random the world is. Man prefers to organize, even in cases when organization is inferior"


who said that Balance means that it has to be an ordered balance?
You know the old scales you see on the Liberty Maiden, well just because you balance them doesn't not mean they must balance on all of thier axis ... your just trying to balance on thier Z axis to make them level, once they're level they could still be swinging around on the spot but as soon as that balance is there they only sway very slightly on thier Z.

But then who are you to say what is order and what is chaos?
the ulitmate order and cohearance within life as we know it are Atoms within Molecules - however think about it, they're also the most Chaotic things you will see in your life ... no set path, they just seems to float around randomly bound by a group - yet in order to be bound together they must have an order and work together, else that chair your sitting ont, the computer your using - even you would not exist and there would be no coheasion to keep you together and allow life to exist.



I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 21:00
Quote: "But then who are you to say what is order and what is chaos?"


I AM BRUCE!
rotflmao!

(can't wait for the movie, Almighty Bruce)

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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