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Geek Culture / A scientist has achieved a world first....

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windows98
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 18:23
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The first man too actually clone himself

Samuel Wood created embryo copies of himself by placing his skin cells in a woman's egg.
The embryos were the first to be made from cells taken from adult humans.
Although they survived for only five days and were smaller than a pinhead.



i think ill just go and zap me self another me.

windows


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 18:25
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...Wow. So this guy was his own dad?


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 18:26
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That's cloning, right? Isn't that completely illegal?

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windows98
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 18:27 Edited at: 21st Jan 2008 18:27
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well im not sure if there was any law in place in america stopping him as it was the first time, but there has been huge ethnic backclash


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bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:05
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Quote: "well im not sure if there was any law in place in america stopping him as it was the first time, but there has been huge ethnic backclash"


It's cloning if you actually grow out a fetus. They stopped the process before they created a living being

A far more accurate and interesting article is located here:

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsclon0118,0,2354566.story?coll=ny-news-columnists


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Grandma
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:09
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Quote: "The first man too actually clone himself"


Umm, i've heard human cloning took place as far back as the 60's even. I've seen headlines like this too many times i've lost count. They can't all be first?

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Osiris
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:21
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Well there has never been a clone of him first...

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You will be dearly missed.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:27
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How do you know? He may be a clone himself!

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Grandma
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:31
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Quote: "How do you know? He may be a clone himself!"


I can see it now, it's the "child" of the same guy who always make those headlines. Only this is the latest generation. Next time we see a similar headline, it would be the "child" of this one, who has managed to clone himself.

Haha it was the "same" guy all along.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 19:58
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You guys are looking a little to far into that, methinks.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:06
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we're gonna be surrounded by chimera man-bear-pigs one day, not too long from now

but seriously, this genetic modification stuff, in food and animals, and humans, by these sick f b*stards, is most likely going to be our great undoing as a species.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:09
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...Yes. Man-bear-pigs.

Hey, would real furries be possible then?!


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Grandma
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:11
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^lol, i must be nostradamus because i saw that coming.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:12
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Quote: "but seriously, this genetic modification stuff, in food and animals, and humans, by these sick f b*stards, is most likely going to be our great undoing as a species."


I'm going to be a Geneticist. One day, you'll be dieing, and I'll make a clone of you... then I'll field-goal-kick your clone fetus and say PWNED


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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:16
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Quote: "^lol, i must be nostradamus because i saw that coming."

Hehe. Yup.

Quote: "I'm going to be a Geneticist. One day, you'll be dieing, and I'll make a clone of you... then I'll field-goal-kick your clone fetus and say PWNED"



Would you do that to a poor, innocent CattleRustler fetus?

Oh yeah, me too.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:18 Edited at: 21st Jan 2008 20:19
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Quote: "but seriously, this genetic modification stuff, in food and animals, and humans, by these sick f b*stards, is most likely going to be our great undoing as a species."


So making stem cells from your skin cells to cure near any problem with any body part you have is going to be our undoing?

It's the cure for diabetes, many types of cancer, who knows what else. Just think of growing new lungs for yourself if you get lung cancer. Your kidneys shut down? No problem, we'll grow you some new ones. Bad heart? No problem.

I don't know what all can be done with this type of technology, but a lot of good things can come of it.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 20:19
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haha

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MartinS
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 21:08
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Quote: "Just think of growing new lungs for yourself if you get lung cancer. Your kidneys shut down? No problem, we'll grow you some new ones. Bad heart? No problem."


It doesn't sound so awesome from the clone's point of view...

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 21:18
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Only the body parts would be grow. Nothing else.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 21:19 Edited at: 21st Jan 2008 21:19
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Quote: "It doesn't sound so awesome from the clone's point of view... "


That would be pretty lame, but the idea is not to grow a living being, but just the organs needed, (you would for example, make the stem cell form a lung.


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MartinS
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 21:38
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Ah, ok. I had read the first post and was skimming the rest of the thread, so I didn't really get the full picture. And that doesn't sound half as bad.

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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 22:01
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Indeed.

'Hey, welcome to life, clone!'
'Hello!'
'Now we're going to kill you and take you vital bodily organs!'
'What!!?'


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RalphY
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yup, I'm sure when we manage to achieve it, and no one dies from illnesses, and we all live much longer, possibly forever (as as you said, as soon as something stops working we can just clone a replacement), we will all stop having kids. I mean it's not like we have a slight over population problem already? right?

Don't get me wrong, a lot of good can come from this type of research and I'm all for that, but don't kid yourself into thinking this is a free ride.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 06:22
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Um, clones don't just instantly appear in some lab. They have to be grown, and that takes time. It's not possible to just "clone" something instantly when you need it (i.e. new lungs), and will never be possible. Perhaps some of you should do some research on what is actually involved in cloning.


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Thraxas
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 07:04
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Quote: "but there has been huge ethnic backclash"


An ETHNIC backlash?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 07:09
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Quote: "Um, clones don't just instantly appear in some lab. They have to be grown, and that takes time. It's not possible to just "clone" something instantly when you need it (i.e. new lungs), and will never be possible. Perhaps some of you should do some research on what is actually involved in cloning."


That's kind of obvious. I would imagine most diseases don't kill you at the first sign of trouble


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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 07:16 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2008 07:16
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Quote: "Um, clones don't just instantly appear in some lab."

Sure they do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant Cloning.

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dfujis the rocker
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 08:56
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http://www.vegatransports.com.au/starwars/CLONES/EP2_clones_gunship_attack.jpg
Here it goes...

(Warning: I believe in love):
1.If you really love someone and clone yourself, who do they love? Your lover, or you lovers clone?
(Nothing to do with that)
2.Can we make ourselves superior now with genetic engineering? Would it apply to normal humans or just clones?
3. Is your clone your son?

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BatVink
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 10:46
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Quote: "So making stem cells from your skin cells to cure near any problem with any body part you have is going to be our undoing?

It's the cure for diabetes, many types of cancer, who knows what else. Just think of growing new lungs for yourself if you get lung cancer. Your kidneys shut down? No problem, we'll grow you some new ones. Bad heart? No problem.

I don't know what all can be done with this type of technology, but a lot of good things can come of it."


The concept of cloning for generating stem cells involves creating a human being, then killing him/her. Stem cell generation using embryos, which isn't far removed, is not very productive.
You can gather stem cells from adult human beings without having to kill. It's also many times more successful than the alternative.

The UK government are currently trying to ratify a bill that will allow humans and animals to be used to create Cybrids. If it goes through, your grandchildren could be sat next to a school mate who is part farm animal.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 10:52
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I have a dream. It's always the same dream - I'm on a boat, headed to an island.

Then, I drown.


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Quote: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
-Martin Luther King

I can see a whole new breed of Racsism being born here: Against farmyard animal/Human hybrids

But in a neffort to stop this from becoming religeous, I'll stop.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 21:17
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Quote: "The UK government are currently trying to ratify a bill that will allow humans and animals to be used to create Cybrids. If it goes through, your grandchildren could be sat next to a school mate who is part farm animal."


Thats... disgusting. I'm sorry. You have to be really screwed up in the head to propose such a bill, and then for a group to ratify it 0_o

People are so screwed over its not even funny. Scientists like to call us animals, well, they certainly are living up to that title. Idiots just can't seem to see we are something more -_-

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 21:19
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Quote: "If it goes through, your grandchildren could be sat next to a school mate who is part farm animal.""


I really can't see this happening, unless you can take something good genetically from an animal and take from that. Myself, I would never allow it on my children.


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Thraxas
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2008 22:28
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Have any of you read "When the Wind Blows" by James Patterson? It's all about genetic hybrids... It's also very good, go read it now!

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Xenocythe
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I was literally scared enough to check outside my window when I saw that Jeku attached that image... then I saw his avatar .


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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 01:41
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Quote: "I really can't see this happening, unless you can take something good genetically from an animal and take from that"


The bill allows for the creation and experimentation on human/animal hybrid and cybrid embryos. Doesn't say it has to be good, or ethical.
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Mr Tank
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So, do I take it that the embryos would be able to grow into clone guys? I thought cloning was supposed to be really difficult. Just skin cells? Good news for people who can't reproduce normally. Wonder how much harder it is to make a "child" embryo given skin samples from a prospective mum and dad. That would be better.

I don't have an ethical problem with cloning, it's just that legally it's a pain in the bum. If one clone committed a murder and was seen doing it, who do they arrest?

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Osiris
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 03:30
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Quote: "If one clone committed a murder and was seen doing it, who do they arrest?"


Whoever is older/younger? Or maybe if you want to get cloned you have to get a tattoo to signify whos who.

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Mr Tank
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Age isn't that easy to tell. You could make one clone look like the other, and they could be the same age. Like twins. Tatoos could be faked or hidden. Blood samples would match i think, although fingerprints and irises would differ IIRC.

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Phaelax
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Quote: "we're gonna be surrounded by chimera man-bear-pigs one day,"

Well, funny you should mention that.....
There was a slashdot article recently that said 2 groups were given the go-ahead for creating human-animal hybrids; human egg, animal embryo. This allows scientists to harvest stem cells without destroying human embryos. They are only allowed to grow for 11 days I think.


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Osiris
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Well maybe a chip. Like in a dog. That would be put in right after birth, so the clone would not know!

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 06:19
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Quote: "If one clone committed a murder and was seen doing it, who do they arrest?"


What do you mean? They arrest the one who did it. A clone is *not* the same person as the cloned. They will have their own emotions, etc. and are as real a human as you and I.


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BatVink
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As this is a predominantly male forum, you may be interested in another part of the bill. It removes the need for a father to be named on a birth certificate. That means that once they make lawnmowers that can steer themselves, mankind no longer needs man
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Agent Dink
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Quote: "Well maybe a chip. Like in a dog. That would be put in right after birth, so the clone would not know!"


This would just make our clones inferior. Why should they get a chip. Why don't you get a chip? I can just imagine the uprising someday with an idea like that

And no. Please, everyone, don't be supportive of having a chip implanted into your body. That's ridiculous. Like the world governments need any more ways to track and monitor what you do.

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RalphY
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 13:17 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 13:18
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Quote: "That means that once they make lawnmowers that can steer themselves, mankind no longer needs man"

Oh noes we have become obsolete. Excuse me whilst I go climb into a big cardboard box along side my Commodore 64.

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Grandma
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 13:22
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Quote: "And no. Please, everyone, don't be supportive of having a chip implanted into your body. That's ridiculous. Like the world governments need any more ways to track and monitor what you do."


This most agreeable statement was provided to you by Agent Dink corp. Please take heed to said words of wisdom. Thank you.

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demons breath
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:45
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Quote: "Although they survived for only five days and were smaller than a pinhead."


so it wasn't THAT accurate a clone. Unless he's a very intelligent scientist for a pinhead-sized foetus...


Quote: "there has been huge ethnic backclash"


Unless I'm missing something then I assume you mean ethical. Unless it's specifically offensive to people of certain ethnic backgrounds. Which is always possible I suppose.


Quote: "we're gonna be surrounded by chimera man-bear-pigs one day, not too long from now "


I want one. That would be so cool. It could guard your house AND do your homework. And if you got hungry you could always fry up some lovely rashers of man-bear-bacon (would that count as cannibalism?)


Quote: "So making stem cells from your skin cells to cure near any problem with any body part you have is going to be our undoing?

It's the cure for diabetes, many types of cancer, who knows what else. Just think of growing new lungs for yourself if you get lung cancer. Your kidneys shut down? No problem, we'll grow you some new ones. Bad heart? No problem.

I don't know what all can be done with this type of technology, but a lot of good things can come of it."


That's not exactly what's in question here though. The problem is with actually growing people. Bit morally ambiguous, and also could be a problem when you get crazy manic dictators taking over the world by just cloning an army of billions of people. Which could cause problems.


Quote: "I don't have an ethical problem with cloning, it's just that legally it's a pain in the bum. If one clone committed a murder and was seen doing it, who do they arrest?"
.

The whole lot of them. If you don't want to be wrongfully imprisoned, then don't get a clone. Simple.


Quote: "What do you mean? They arrest the one who did it. A clone is *not* the same person as the cloned. They will have their own emotions, etc. and are as real a human as you and I."


But I would imagine they would look a little similar. What with the identical DNA and everything.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 16:03
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Quote: "we're gonna be surrounded by chimera man-bear-pigs one day, not too long from now"


Al Gore was right!

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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 16:05
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Quote: "I want one. That would be so cool. It could guard your house AND do your homework. And if you got hungry you could always fry up some lovely rashers of man-bear-bacon (would that count as cannibalism?)"


And therein lies one of the many problems. It is already assumed that a clone would be an inferior being. I know it was said in jest, but I fear it is probably an accurate observation.
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Mr Tank
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 16:21
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Quote: "What do you mean? They arrest the one who did it. A clone is *not* the same person as the cloned. They will have their own emotions, etc. and are as real a human as you and I."


I don't mean that. I mean, a witness might not be able to identify which clone committed the crime, so they wouldn't be able to prove within reasonable doubt that any one individual was guilty. It's the same as with identical twins.

Quote: "The whole lot of them. If you don't want to be wrongfully imprisoned, then don't get a clone. Simple."


But the clone doesn't get to choose whether it is created.

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