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Geek Culture / Heath Ledger

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Samoz83
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 14:24
I would just like to pay my respects to who i thought was one of the best upcomming actors (especially liked A knights tale) and does anyone know what will happen to his film The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus?

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Oolite
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 14:58
I was surprised to hear about this too, he looks like he's done a brilliant job of portraying the Joker.

Quote: "anyone know what will happen to his film The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus?"

....I'm assuming, unless they've finished filming, it won't go on, it seems a bit heartless to recast.

GatorHex
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:02 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 15:02
Millons of Dollars v Being Heartless... hmmm... tough decision.

As the joker is in makup it would be easy to fill with a look-a-like if they needed too, but I've not heard any reports that the film was unfinished. Often films will sit on the shelf until a good time for release like the summer holidays.

Condolences to his family.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:07 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 15:08
I heard about it but I didn't know who it was. I've not seen Brokeback Mountain, which was the movie they mentioned on the radio. But I loved A knights tale, seen it a few times. Maybe they'll do it like with The Crow?

On a side note, The Dark Knight looks interesting, I've not heard about it before but I'm glad that they will continue on the Batman Begins "series". Odd that it doesn't even have Batman in the title

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Oolite
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:13
Dark Knight has finished filming and is in post production if i am to believe, so his parts over.

demons breath
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:25
The best film he did was 10 Things I Hate About You. That is an awesome film.

RIP heath

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:36
I'll reserve my judgement for the toxicology report. They found sleeping pills at the scene. That's not bad in and of itself, unless he was mixing it with something else.

This was interesting though...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/

Quote: "The Joker's character is based on his first two appearances in the comic books, as well as his portrayal in the graphic novel "The Killing Joke." To prepare for the role, Heath Ledger lived alone in a hotel room for a month researching the character and developing his performance, which he claims is based upon Sid Vicious and the character of Alex in A Clockwork Orange (1971). Ledger found the role extremely difficult, and suffered insomnia as a result."


So, it's possible that his role in the Dark Knight was tied to his death.


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:51
Maybe he was going nuts from the insomnia and took too many pills or tried mixing it with something he shouldn't?

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Samoz83
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 15:56 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 15:58
he did say in an interview that he did take two prescribed sleeping pills instead of one once because he couldn't sleep due to the stress of plaing joker

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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 16:01
2 sleeping pills should not kill you, some might find this nasty to say, but my money is on suicide. He was depressed, was having a real rough time in his personal life, trouble dealing with being famous, and very importantly he was probably an insomniac - that can make you do dangerous things before very long.


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 17:29 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 19:30
Quote: "my money is on suicide"

No doubt he had a hard life, but I think he would have just had too many pills and no one, not even him, expected to die. After all, it wouldn't be long before he got a whole load of money for the movies in development.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 18:54 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 18:54
Look at Other bloke with the funny nose who tried to kill himself a while back.

[edit] Owen Wilson.

Life can suck balls whether you're famous or not.

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 21:00
Maybe this is too harsh, but if it's a drug overdose, I don't feel bad for him in the slightest.

If it was suicide, that's sad as depression can be a bad experience for anyone. Nobody put him in his position or forced a gun to his head to be "famous", so I can't stand when people play the victim card, however.

I'll wait for the toxicology report. He shouldn't be put on a pedestal above anyone else. Regular people die every day and it doesn't make front page news.


Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 22:16 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 22:16
Being famous doesn't make someone a victim, but it doesn't neccesarily make their life easy either. It's easy to say that XYZ (being famous or rich or liked or whatever) would make your life easy and all your problems go away, but we all have our demons. A very sad loss IMO, he was a hell of an actor and seemed like a great guy.
Seth Black
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 22:26
Quote: "...Regular people die every day and it doesn't make front page news..."


...well said, Jeku.


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MonoCoder
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 23:03 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2008 23:37
I bet it's all part of the setup for the Dark Knight's opening, at which he will suddenly reappear and, you know, be jokery.

That would be brilliant.



Sorry, I should note that that was a joke.
RIP and all that tat.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 23:10
From what I gathered on CNN, he was having a lot of trouble sleeping and Ambien wasn't working. So maybe he took some newer sleeping medication and overdosed, or maybe it was an allergic reaction... who knows, like others said, the toxicology report will have the answers. But I'm hoping the press spins this to attack the pharmaceutical industry, then at least some good can come of it. Sounds heartless but really, what's better, them attacking the Dark Knight movie saying it's too serious and evil, or them attacking the pharmaceutical industry and enlightening a few more people to the absolutely autrocious health industry in the US?

Kentaree
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 23:12
Yeah, right. Welcome to the real world Mono. People die, even famous ones. I feel sorry for the family, and hope for them it wasn't an overdose, even though that seems fashionable of late...

tha_rami
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2008 23:42
Wouldn't know the man - never seen him perform at all.


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GatorHex
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 00:07
Quote: "Nobody put him in his position or forced a gun to his head to be "famous", "


I think he mentioned in inerview he was groomed for stardom, I don't think he chose it.

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AaronG
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 00:09
For those of you who talk about suicide, and complain that there's no reason to die because of being "famous", you're wrong. A horrible life, is what you make it. It's an inner feeling that you can't describe to anyone else, and will make you look like an idiot if you do. And yes, it's usually due to some mental disease or stress. But all I'm trying to say is stress twists thoughts until it's reality, and by then, you're taking actions against yourself, and are basically hopeless if no one finds you and helps you.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 00:33
Quote: "He shouldn't be put on a pedestal above anyone else. Regular people die every day and it doesn't make front page news."


Glad I wasn't the first to say it... As an example in America as Heath Ledger was American and died here... How many American soldiers die in various wars around the world every day, and all they say is "a roadside bomb in Iraq killed 5 soldiers at a checkpoint today," and then cut to the Hannah Montana concert report...

It's kinda sick if you ask me, why actors and sports stars get more newstime than anyone else...

Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 00:58
That's the media for you. There was a time in this country, long before any of us were alive, when the media actually covered news that mattered. Nowadays, Britney Spears having a "breakdown" is apparently more important than all of the wrongs in the world. If they spent a tenth of the time covering the crisis in Sudan as they did talking about Heath Ledger, or Britney Spears, or the Tom Cruise Scientology video, they might actually make some degree of an impact on the world in a positive way. Nope, instead they send Anderson Cooper to Africa and have him interview a starving child, and that's their contribution to real news for the month.

The other day they showed... not kidding here... fat pills for you dog. What?!? Okay, let me get this straight... you're an overweight American fatty, and because you're too lazy to take your dog for regular walks, they have diet pills so your dog can be just as lazy as you are. I can't work out what's worse here: that the FDA actually approved such a drug, or that Americans can be THIS lazy, or that CNN actually spend 20 minutes talking about it. I'm two stupid news reports shy of infiltrating a certain moderator's moon base and living in the broom closet.

Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 01:43
Quote: "I think he mentioned in inerview he was groomed for stardom, I don't think he chose it."


You are kidding me, right? His first Hollywood movie was 10 Things I Hate About You, and he was around 20 at the time. He may have been a big star in Australia since he was a kid (and I'm just guessing at this, based on your post, I don't know for certain), but he was virtually unknown in Hollywood. He didn't have to act in The Patriot or Kinght's Tale, or Brokeback Mountain, etc. Let's not pretend for a second that he was some child star like Gary Coleman or Macauley Culkin who probably didn't have an actual choice.

There's few things I hate more than celebs crying because they're too famous.

Quote: "For those of you who talk about suicide, and complain that there's no reason to die because of being "famous", you're wrong."


Nobody said celebs don't have a right to commit suicide because they're famous. If you re-read my post I talk about depression and how it can afflict anyone.

If he died of a heroin overdose, on the other hand, which is one of the suspicions, then it should not have made the news. In fact I think rich celebrity druggies are worse scum than the poor and homeless druggies who live on the streets.

Quote: "Heath Ledger was American and died here"


Actually he's Australian, but I get your point


Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 02:04
Quote: "Actually he's Australian, but I get your point "


Well I only assumed he was American since he's been in a number of American movies, he lived in New York, and he died here... it seemed sensible, but I needed something like soldiers or firemen or something to compare to

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 13:33 Edited at: 24th Jan 2008 13:35
Quote: "Well I only assumed he was American since he's been in a number of American movies"

His accent might have given it away Point taken of course. Every time a soldier dies a family is destroyed. People can ignore that which doesn't affect them easily enough, but it's surprising how much people think that a celebrity death affects them when it really doesn't. Heath was a very talented actor, but like I said I can't really form a judgement until toxicology gives me a call.


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Kentaree
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 14:03
I think the issue with celebrity deaths over "regular people" deaths is that people recognize the celebrities (can't find a better way to put it). If you know someone, just as an acquaintance, or even seeing them on a regular basis (ie, they work in the building beside you) and their name/picture shows up in the obituaries, you're going to be more affected than when Joe Bloggs from the other side of town that you've never seen or met dies.

Non-celebrity deaths are obviously just as sad as celebrity deaths. Just because someone is a celebrity doesn't make their death any less sad either, but of course they're going to get more media attention because the media is the whole reason they're celebrities in the first place.

Zappo
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 14:15
Quote: "Nobody put him in his position or forced a gun to his head to be "famous""

Just playing devil's advocate here, but perhaps he enjoyed acting in movies and that's why he did it - not for the fame? For example, if you have a passion for making computer games and one suddenly became really popular and made you famous, but you discover that you don't particularly like the fame, would you completely stop writing computer games? Even if you really love doing it? Or if someone offered you a huge bucket of money to write another computer game, would you turn it down in case it made you more famous?
Its not always black and white. If you are good at a particular art form, and really enjoy doing it, why should you have to give it up just to stop people pestering you? I don't know.


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Zombie 20
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 14:17
Sorry have to agree with dink, jeku and matt, this is not newsworthy. Sure, its sad he died, I feel bad for him but its not this newsworthy, at the risk of saying something political i'll just go "How about some real news."


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Van B
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 14:33
I don't think it's the coverage that annoys some people, it's the reactions of extreme fans. If this was simply reported on and left alone then it would be a different matter - but there'll be OTT fans bawling their eyes out, parents getting defensive about the circumstances, documentaries about him with co-stars telling us how great he was, and for years there'll be a 'did he, didn't he' mystery.

And if toxicology comes back proving it was a suicide then Hollywood will get it in the neck big style.

Frankly I think we have enough death and misery in our own lives to deal with. We shouldn't excerpt ourselves on absorbing other peoples misery, not Ledgers family, not the McCanns, not Britney-no-kids Spears.
People who cry over this need some reality in their lives.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 15:04
Quote: "His accent might have given it away "


I've never watched any of his movies, sorry, I don't much feel like watching some gay cowboys "do" it or whatever else goes on in that movie.

However I am / was looking forward to Dark Knight. I hope they don't cancel it's release.

ionstream
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 15:52
Right, because every movie he was in was about gay cowboys.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 15:56 Edited at: 24th Jan 2008 15:59
Come on, I'm making a joke. I'm sorry I'm not a huge movie watcher and not familiar with his past works.

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 17:56
Paparazzi's killing of Celebrities with depression.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 20:53
I think it's sad that he died, as I would be with every other person who doesn't deserve to die. I wish my best of luck to his family. If it was suicide or drugs, well yes he chose his career, but to be honest he had the right to and well it seems possible he couldn't hack the high levels of stress (levels of stress I don't think it is right for any person to be put under) and he can't be blamed for that. When people are put under a large level of stress they try to deal with it and some are less successful that others. Actors and celebrities are human beings like the rest of us.

As for the newspapers talking about his death, I think people should know, in the sense heath ledger probably had fans and well it kind of helps to know if somebody you know or know of is dead when they're dead. Though it is a little unfair considering yes, they're human, we're human, what makes them so special? Well nothing, just that news is a means to get the message across that somebody well known is dead. Though if they go over the top (like with Diana) then it definitely is stupid.

Ideally speaking, I think it'd be better if Newspapers/the News talked less about death, I mean they give the viewpoint of a pessimistic and darker outer world, because most headlines tend to either be gossip or something bad has happened somewhere.

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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 21:17
Quote: "but perhaps he enjoyed acting in movies and that's why he did it - not for the fame?"


Well that just comes with the territory. If you want a peanut butter sandwich, you're going to have to deal with the peanut butter sticking to the roof of your mouth. You can't expect to be a famous movie actor and *not* be famous. That's just absurd. Somebody who is truly interested in the "art" and not wanting to become famous should stick to Broadway plays.


demons breath
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 21:42
Well from what I heard, he'd taken half a dozen different types of prescription drugs. Unless he was a little more slow on the uptake than I thought, he must have realised it would be bad for him. My money's on suicide.


Quote: "However I am / was looking forward to Dark Knight. I hope they don't cancel it's release."


Highly unlikely, unless he left them millions of dollars in his will to reimburse all their costs of making the film. Let's face it, famous suicides just add popularity in some circles; like all of the kids walking round in Nirvana t-shirts who weren't around when the band was actually famous but feel that by listening to someone who committed suicide before they were born, they are showing their integrity and inner turmoil.



Quote: "Somebody who is truly interested in the "art" and not wanting to become famous should stick to Broadway plays."


I like movies, but not really plays or musicals or anything else. Does that mean that if I wanted to become an actor but not have all the problems that fame brings, I would be forced to spend the rest of my life trying to get a job in assorted productions that I hate?



Quote: "Ideally speaking, I think it'd be better if Newspapers/the News talked less about death, I mean they give the viewpoint of a pessimistic and darker outer world, because most headlines tend to either be gossip or something bad has happened somewhere."


Do you not feel that it would be a little degrading to squeeze, say, a terrorist bombing, some other deaths, and major world conflicts onto one page in the middle so that people who want something cheerful to read don't have to reflect on what the world's actually like to distract themselves from happy stories about talented rabbits or spelling bees? The stuff that will mostly affect more people IS negative, I would say. I dislike the celebrity culture, and to be honest I couldn't care less about whatever's going on with Britney Spears at the moment, although I do think that the media is way to judgemental seeing as in a lot of these cases the problems are at least partly their fault, or at least exacerbated by their constant attention. I mean I heard someone on the other day defending an article their paper had published, saying they really wanted Amy Winehouse to get help. If you really care that much, try and send her a letter or something (though I doubt he'd have an impact if no-one else seems to). The best way to encourage someone to make something of themselves and sort their lives out is NOT to put pictures of them smoking crack on your front page.


Quote: "We shouldn't excerpt ourselves on absorbing other peoples misery, not Ledgers family, not the McCanns, not Britney-no-kids Spears.
People who cry over this need some reality in their lives."


Although I agree with you about people who cry about celebrity news, I don't think the McCanns deserve to be included in that list. Britney Spears had a good run, but has descended into her own problems, likewise Heath Ledger wasn't doing too badly for himself. On the other hand, the McCanns were on holiday when their child was abducted, and to be honest, probably killed (at best).



Also, on a side note;

Quote: ""a roadside bomb in Iraq killed 5 soldiers at a checkpoint today," "


I'm sorry, but you've got to admit that it's an occupational hazard of being in the army that you will occasionally get people who don't just want to sit down for a chat and a lovely warm cup of tea. Of course I feel sorry for the families, but it's not like it's not something they chose. I know people who are joining the army/air force etc. (mostly ex-girlfriend's brothers actually... kind of a weird pattern come to think of it...) and of course I would be upset if they died (seeing as they're people I know or have known reasonably well, as I have worked/gone to martial arts/etc with some of them) but I don't think it's as bad as, for example, a fatal car crash...

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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 21:46
Quote: "Does that mean that if I wanted to become an actor but not have all the problems that fame brings, I would be forced to spend the rest of my life trying to get a job in assorted productions that I hate?"


I'm saying if you want to become a bigtime actor, you have to accept fame as part of the deal. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it's reality. Even small-time TV celebs like my cousin get recognized on the street.


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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 21:53
Heh, my uncle's a small-time TV celeb. [/OT]


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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 22:36 Edited at: 24th Jan 2008 22:38
A shame. Condolences to those who were close to him.

To me personally, it's always an slight irritation when young up-and-comers are only appreciated once their gone. As Van said, I bet they'll be making documentaries about what he could have been, with a ton of guest appearances saying that he was "a good kid" and all. It'll probably air on Entertainment Tonight, in between all their usual paparazzi and Britney-watch content.

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Van B
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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 10:21
Quote: "I don't think the McCanns deserve to be included in that list"


I'm not saying they deserve the sorry blow life has dealt them, what concerns me about them is how they can be in the newspaper every damn day. I'm sure the parents of the 7 million kids who have died due to poverty since Maddies disappearance will get the same coverage.

Do you know what I mean? - there's a lot of suffering out there that we should be dealing with, not dwelling on a single case.

How sick must society be to allow that, glad I'm not a part of it.


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 12:56
@demons breath -
Quote: "but it's not like it's not something they chose"

Members of the armed forces don't choose to go to Iraq to fight some crap war, most of the soldiers that are in are doing it to take care of their families. For many it's the only way to escape from poverty. If it's your only option to provide yourself and your family with better opportunities in life then you can't say that you 'chose' the hazards associated with it. Would you say that a miners' death in a mine isn't as bad because the miner chose to work in said mine? It's often hardly a matter of choice.

When it's time to deploy you don't have a choice. To say that it's an occupational hazard and they chose it is ignorant and insensitive to all of the soldiers that have died.

Quote: "but I don't think it's as bad as, for example, a fatal car crash..."

The end result is the same, someone is dead.


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demons breath
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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 15:14
@Cash: I'm sorry that did come across as insensitive and it didn't come out the way I meant it, but I do apologise to anyone who was offended. I've got to stop posting when I've had a few because my tact and common sense starts to go downhill quite quickly

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 16:40
Jeku, I see what you're saying, they should prepare for fame, as it comes with the job - but you know people do want fame but aren't prepared for the stress, not the stress of the job or the stress of everybody knowing who they are, but this persistence from the media watching their every move, invading their personal life just to spread slanderous rumours and gossip and well that's one thing I don't think celebs/famous people should get. It can end up being a hell of a lot of pressure because the media will burn you as soon as you do something stupid.

And that's one thing I hate about celebrity culture - that media coverage, I don't give a flying f-word what people's private lives are, everybody is human and they should just leave them alone. The whole Britney Spears issue, yeah I don't like her, but I was annoyed when I saw some of the articles came out about her. These are people that give us our entertainment, we should invade them as much as we don't invade the farmers that give us our food.

I think if the media and this 'celeb' culture backed off then maybe there would be less depressed celebrities, less suicides and less druggies. It's this constant judgment.

Also, one thing I'm appalled about reading with this death, the most hate baptist church is going to protest at his funeral because he played a homosexual character...Insensitive b-words.

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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 17:10
Quote: "Also, one thing I'm appalled about reading with this death, the most hate baptist church is going to protest at his funeral because he played a homosexual character"


The Westboro Baptist Church. They make me shake with anger

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jan 2008 15:52 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 15:53
I bet somebody is going to massacre them one day. Actually seeing some of the loonies we get in society I am very surprised that hasn't happened yet. (Not that I condone violence, but they're very much provoking something to happen - why haven't they been arrested yet anyway? Surely there's a law against what they do - protesting at a funeral SHOULD be against the law.)

I watched them on the Jeremy Kyle show (don't hate me, I watched it because they were on there) and they just made me bury my head in shame for the human race. The amount of contradictions on sense or scripture I made to them, made me wish I was on that panel of people on the show.

It takes blood and guts to be this cool, but I'm still just a cliche
FredP
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Posted: 26th Jan 2008 16:17
Quote: "I'm two stupid news reports shy of infiltrating a certain moderator's moon base and living in the broom closet."


So by the time I read that you and the broom are probably getting to know each other.
At any rate I am prety sure in this situation his family and friends don't want the media attention.The want to be left alone to grieve.But,shoving human compassion and jounalistic integrity aside,they are going to hound these poor people until they don't get any ratings out of them.
These people did nothing to bring the misery on them that the news media so eagerly captializes on.
We should all feel some sort of compassion for the man's family and friends even if we feel nothing for him.They have to live with this.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Deathead
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Posted: 26th Jan 2008 16:26
Quote: "I'm not saying they deserve the sorry blow life has dealt them, what concerns me about them is how they can be in the newspaper every damn day. I'm sure the parents of the 7 million kids who have died due to poverty since Maddies disappearance will get the same coverage."

Van B you got it totally wrong Maddies case is a case of Pedophilia not poverty and I know where your coming from there is millions of abductions per year which gets no coverage.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 26th Jan 2008 16:29
@demons breath -
Thanks


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jan 2008 17:49 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 17:51
Quote: "Quote: "I'm not saying they deserve the sorry blow life has dealt them, what concerns me about them is how they can be in the newspaper every damn day. I'm sure the parents of the 7 million kids who have died due to poverty since Maddies disappearance will get the same coverage."
Van B you got it totally wrong Maddies case is a case of Pedophilia not poverty and I know where your coming from there is millions of abductions per year which gets no coverage."


Indeed, but I think the whole media thing isn't a 'we care' thing, they make people think that, generally they're out to make money and what better way to make money? Dramatize cases such as Maddie and Princess Diana and the number of newspapers sold/programs watched goes up. This is why I dislike most of our media, because I don't think of them to be particularly moral or truthful.

If they really cared, they would respect the millions of other kids in the world and not make such a huge public deal about Maddie, as she detracts attention from those kids and makes 'abduction' look rarer. I hope they find the girl or what happened to her just as much as I hope they find all the other kidnapped children in the world.

Celeb. deaths do the same sort of thing, but I think at least some notification of the death is needed, I mean the only difference between us and them is that they have a large number of fans and the news media is the best way to get the news across and that's all I think it should do, tell us that and what happened. Going into it with depth I think is too much, especially with Diana's death, she's been dead for years and the media still hasn't put it to rest. The life and death of celebs is the gossip that earns the media industry millions, even though celebrities are as just as human as the rest of us - except news that my friend threw a frying pan out of the window when drunk doesn't sell, if Britney Spears did, they'd have a whole slanderous article on it.

Why do you think I don't watch the news or read newspapers?

It takes blood and guts to be this cool, but I'm still just a cliche

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