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Geek Culture / 17-month old child murdered for knocking over xbox

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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 23:22
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If we go by the "eye for an eye" mirror justice, how do you punish a guy who killed his own daughter?
gouge out his eye?

The person who wrote that article was a retard; no news item should start with the words "A bloke.." especially one that deals with a sensitive subject.

I think killing murderers kind of justifies their crime, it is completely hypocritical to punish someone for committing a crime by committing the same crime on them. That is the way of gangs not governments.
Having said that, our government (UK) are a bunch of pussies and provide no protection for us citizens. The only time you can get the police interested in you is if you are a criminal or if you get murdered.
We have been abandoned by our own police force!

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n008
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 23:25
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Quote: "As a punishment for getting banned?

Seriously, if we have to bring in the death penalty, let's not have the guillotine. It's extremely inhumane."


So? If someone killed someone else, they deserve death.

Bringing back the Guillotine and Public execution drops the murder rates, so the chances for the Judiciary system screwing up go down as well.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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Peter H
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 23:33
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if i'm ever executed. i want to go by Guillotine.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 23:38
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I don't understand why rape isn't considered a capital offence
it's the only crime that has no motive! I could understand if someone robbed a bank, or killed someone out of revenge but rape just doesn't gain the perpetrator anything.
There was a 30-year-old guy who raped a 10-year-old girl and only got 2 years!
Some people just need to be "removed"

Totally contradicts what I said before but if they can't be helped, what is the point in paying for them to live in jail. Imprisoning people shows a lack of strength, an inability to make a clear decision, jail is like a limbo, it doesn't solve any problems for society or the criminals themselves.

not sure about the guillotine, and the reason for that is it's too messy and would cost more to maintain
I am an evil economist

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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 23:59 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 00:02
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Determining what warrants a death sentence has always been a fine line.

Not to lessen the extremity of what that guy did, but how many of you have never throw a controller due to a game you were playing. So some extent, playing games can alter your mind. Even if just for a very short moment, worst case scenario is that's all the time you need for some nasty reflex.

I remember hitting my head once on a cupboard door, in about half a second that door was flying across the room as a swift pull ripped it from its hinges. 2 seconds later my mind was back to normal (aside from a massive headache). Had the door hit anyone, it would not have been intentional and not something I would normally do, but for 2 seconds your mind can go blank. Shaking an infant to death takes only one swift jerk. Yes it's a shame, yes we all hate the guy for it. If all he did was shake her and yell, I'd call that a fit of sudden rage but would (unusual for me) be against a death penalty in this situation.
However,
Quote: "The gamer then bashed the little mite to death, a court heard. He was said to have moved the body to make it look like an accident."


Bashing is a different story, and trying to cover it up shows lack of remorse in my opinion. Therefore, DEATH to him!



Quote: "I don't understand why rape isn't considered a capital offence
it's the only crime that has no motive"

I think you should read a book on hormones, I think that's a very big motive for rape. That and beer.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:06
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@Phaelax
haha, yeah I've put my fist through the door of my wardrobe because of something I saw on TV, and then thought "What did you do that for you prat?"

A funny one was when me and my brother were about to go and play football (the kind where you play with an actual ball! ) and my mum started nagging him; he got so pissed off he booted the ball away and we couldn't find it

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David R
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:08 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 00:08
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Quote: "if i'm ever executed. i want to go by Guillotine. "

Really?

Quote: "Furthermore, there is the possibility that the very swiftness of the guillotine only prolonged the victim's suffering. The blade cuts quickly enough so that there is relatively little impact on the brain case, and perhaps less likelihood of immediate unconsciousness than with a more violent decapitation, or long-drop hanging.

Audiences to guillotinings told numerous stories of blinking eyelids, speaking, moving eyes, movement of the mouth, even an expression of "unequivocal indignation" on the face of the decapitated Charlotte Corday when her cheek was slapped. Anatomists and other scientists in several countries have tried to perform more definitive experiments on severed human heads as recently as 1956. Inevitably the evidence is only anecdotal. What appears to be a head responding to the sound of its name, or to the pain of a pinprick, may be only random muscle twitching or automatic reflex action, with no awareness involved. At worst, it seems that the massive drop in cerebral blood pressure would cause a victim to lose consciousness in several seconds"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine


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n008
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:10
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Quote: "I don't understand why rape isn't considered a capital offence"


I also have a solution for that --

Legal prostitution.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:12
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who would slap a decapitated girl in the face!? hahaha
scientists are weird, even if the person is still concious does anyone care and is it worth chopping people's heads off to find out?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:14
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@Noob
You can still rape a prostitute... you leave without paying baddum! dum!

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n008
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:16
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But if someone did that then they have problames anyhow.

but 90% of rapes are committed because the guy wasn't getting anything .

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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David R
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 00:17
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Quote: "who would slap a decapitated girl in the face!? hahaha
scientists are weird, even if the person is still concious does anyone care and is it worth chopping people's heads off to find out?"


If I remember correctly, the person who slapped her face after execution was executed for doing so - he wasn't supposed to be slapping the faces of the executed persons I don't think :/


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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 01:51 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 01:52
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All I can say is this... stiffer penalties should be put in place as a deterrent.

Also, if somebody, say, murdered my daughter, and he was proven 100% without doubt (admission, etc.), I will seriously consider doing the job myself since the legal system would probably give him 5-10 years in my country.

I would be sent to prison but I believe vigilantes are often given less sentence. I'm just saying I would have a hard time not walking up and shooting him in the back of the head, broad daylight or not.

Wrong or right, it wouldn't matter. My life would *never* be repaired, and I would see it as giving my daughter the justice she deserved.

Also, for those of you who say prison life would be difficult for him (anyone seen Oz?), I believe they don't stick child killers and rapists in with the general population. They know the other inmates would beat him to death, so yes, they would have it easier than, say, someone who robbed a bank.


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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 01:52 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 01:54
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Generally speaking, I'm on the line for the death penalty, it's too situational to call good, and sometimes, imo, too appropriate to be discarded.

But I believe rapists should always, ALWAYS be tortured and then killed. I don't care if this goes against any types of morals, or even if it's just. Of all crimes, rape is the worst imo, and I would easily maim/kill someone for it

[edit] Posted same time as Jeku, and he made some points I agree with

Quote: "Wrong or right, it wouldn't matter. My life would *never* be repaired, and I would see it as giving my daughter the justice she deserved."


That's the same way I feel about things of this nature.


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andrey d
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 09:54
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Quote: "This guy should be shot."

Excellent, we will show that killing is bad by killing.
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Grandma
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 10:08
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^I believe the idea behind Benjamin's statement was not to show that killing is wrong, but to prevent that "bloke" from doing it again. He's obviously mental and pretty capable of killing anyone since he managed to kill his own baby daughter.

People who have such little respect for life does not deserve it themselfes.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 13:37 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 13:39
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Quote: "I don't understand why rape isn't considered a capital offence
it's the only crime that has no motive! I could understand if someone robbed a bank, or killed someone out of revenge but rape just doesn't gain the perpetrator anything.
There was a 30-year-old guy who raped a 10-year-old girl and only got 2 years!
Some people just need to be "removed""

In some states it used to be. There was a major problem with this though - since the punishment for rape and murder were the same, the raped girls would get killed every time so that there would be no witness. Now that the punishments are different far fewer die.

I support the death penalty not because I think that it's right, but because our prison system is entirely broken. This guy won't be in prison for long, he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Murderers get out all the time, to walk the streets and do it again. The death penalty is the only way for a truly dangerous person to be permanently eliminated. Otherwise due to the incompetent mindless bureaucracy under which the overfilled and underfunded prisons operate they could go free for any number of reasons.

It is more expensive, and there are moral considerations, but the death penalty is not given lightly. The type of people that get the death penalty aren't people that run someone over on accident, they're people that break into someones home and kill a family for no reason. There's quite a difference. They probably lack the social and cognitive skills to understand or care about what they've done but the end result is that they are a detriment to society. Having someone follow them around prison is silly. Are we going to assign a personal counselor to every prisoner?


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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 16:14
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Quote: "it's bloody ridiculous that people get treated so well"


The point of prison is to keep criminals off the street and people safe. Who cares what little luxuries they have?


Hurray for teh logd!
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andrey d
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 16:45
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Quote: "The point of prison is to keep criminals off the street and people safe. Who cares what little luxuries they have?"

Lots of criminals get contacts and gain strength from being in prison, it can literally be their home away from home. They'll go out and just commit another crime just because they can. Perhaps it's not happening in all states, but it sure is in California.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 17:11
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Quote: "Lots of criminals get contacts and gain strength from being in prison, it can literally be their home away from home. They'll go out and just commit another crime just because they can. Perhaps it's not happening in all states, but it sure is in California."


That's hardly the result of having a PS2, TV and cigarettes.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:25 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 18:26
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Quote: "
Bringing back the Guillotine and Public execution drops the murder rates, so the chances for the Judiciary system screwing up go down as well."


As well as endorse vigilante rule and the idea that death and violence is not only acceptable, but is the best solution? Back when public executions were around, society was pretty barbaric. This may not be a direct result of public executioning, but it all factors in.

As for death penalty vs. a short prison sentence, criminals that deserve death should be given the choice of death or life in prison. I know this sounds weird and will probably cause more problems than it solves, but in theory. Atleast it would eliminate the moral implications could be set aside because the criminal would be making the choice. Again, I know this wouldn't ACTUALLY work and not many people would sentence themselves to death.

Come to think of it, I am against the death penalty, as long as these people can be permanently kept away from society (life in prison) and punished justly. Which is another point. Has the judicial system got to the point where criminals are no longer being punished, (therefore encouraging more) but are simply being swept under the rug by the government?

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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:27 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 18:29
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In ontario canada the Inquirer is a tabloid... can someone tell me whether this is real or not???

[edit] looked it up on more credible source and it is true...
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Peter H
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:29
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Quote: "Quote: "if i'm ever executed. i want to go by Guillotine. "
Really?

Quote: "Furthermore, there is the possibility that the very swiftness of the guillotine only prolonged the victim's suffering. The blade cuts quickly enough so that there is relatively little impact on the brain case, and perhaps less likelihood of immediate unconsciousness than with a more violent decapitation, or long-drop hanging.

Audiences to guillotinings told numerous stories of blinking eyelids, speaking, moving eyes, movement of the mouth, even an expression of "unequivocal indignation" on the face of the decapitated Charlotte Corday when her cheek was slapped. Anatomists and other scientists in several countries have tried to perform more definitive experiments on severed human heads as recently as 1956. Inevitably the evidence is only anecdotal. What appears to be a head responding to the sound of its name, or to the pain of a pinprick, may be only random muscle twitching or automatic reflex action, with no awareness involved. At worst, it seems that the massive drop in cerebral blood pressure would cause a victim to lose consciousness in several seconds"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine"


yes.

i never said i was choosing it for being painless.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:33 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 18:50
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Quote: "criminals that deserve death should be given the choice of death or life in prison. "


I think that would constitute cruel and unusual punishment. People would never choose death, unless they were depressed. I'm honestly not against the death penalty, as I don't think everyone can reform.

Quote: "Come to think of it, I am against the death penalty, as long as these people can be permanently kept away from society (life in prison) and punished justly. Which is another point. Has the judicial system got to the point where criminals are no longer being punished, (therefore encouraging more) but are simply being swept under the rug by the government?"


Yes, and that's a good thing. Keep them away from society, and try to reform them at the same time. Reforming them does not necessarily mean being stripped of all comforts, it means helping them through therapy, rehabilitation and education to become better people.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:34
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Why should we the tax payers have to pay for the scum of the earth to stay alive? I say put them all in a giant concrete box, make them fight to the death, last person alive gets life in prison! anyone ever seen battle Royale? kinda like that :p
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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:46
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So should criminals be punished or helped? I say both.

Quote: "
I think that would constitute cruel and unusual punishment. People would never choose death, unless they were depressed. I'm honestly not against the death penalty, as I don't think everyone can reform."


Which is why my theories don't work.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:53
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Everyone has the right for life. We cannot compromise with that in the way executions do. It does not matter how much they cost to keep alive, they are humans and therefore their lives are priceless. Period.

What I have heared executions does not really affect murderes. I think there are generally two types of murderers. The one that performs the act on impulse, and the ones that plan it. I do not really think any one of them are worried for death penalty.

Besides, an "eye for an eye" is not justice. In this case, true justice can never be performed (I think true justice here would be to force him to revive his dougther and then watch her grow up from an cell in jail, but that is literally impossible).

Quote: "if i'm ever executed. i want to go by Guillotine."


I know of an serial killer who looked forward for his execution with that thing, because he thought it would be the ultimate plasure hearing his own blood flow into his ears the moment before he died...

Quote: "Bringing back the Guillotine and Public execution drops the murder rates, so the chances for the Judiciary system screwing up go down as well."


That is just barbaric. Honestly, in this modern age, this is just bellow us.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Tom J
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 18:53 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 18:57
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Quote: "Why should we the tax payers have to pay for the scum of the earth to stay alive? I say put them all in a giant concrete box, make them fight to the death, last person alive gets life in prison! anyone ever seen battle Royale? kinda like that :p"


Live reality TV at its best! .

edit: Although on a serious note, thats just... unbelievable, how can somebody kill someone so young over such a pointless thing?
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 21:45 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 21:51
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Quote: "Quote: "This guy should be shot."
Excellent, we will show that killing is bad by killing."

*sigh* You can't use that defense, which everybody opposed seems to think is a great one. Killing someone as punishment for them killing someone else is not the same as the killer going out and murdering innocent people. They can't even be grouped together. One is punishment for a crime, one is a crime.

Quote: "Everyone has the right for life. We cannot compromise with that in the way executions do. It does not matter how much they cost to keep alive, they are humans and therefore their lives are priceless. Period.
"

I disagree, some people don't deserve the right to live. Do you think the killer thought their victim had the right to live? Then why should they have the right to live?

Quote: "Quote: "if i'm ever executed. i want to go by Guillotine."

I know of an serial killer who looked forward for his execution with that thing, because he thought it would be the ultimate plasure hearing his own blood flow into his ears the moment before he died..."

And someone that insane deserves to live? .

Quote: "
Quote: "Bringing back the Guillotine and Public execution drops the murder rates, so the chances for the Judiciary system screwing up go down as well."

That is just barbaric. Honestly, in this modern age, this is just bellow us."

Barbaric is a matter of perspective. Besides, why is it that so many people think that we are now "above" that, that our society has now somehow evolved into where "we know best" and are "so much more civilized" than in the past? What's wrong with using more primitive, effective methods to do things?


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n008
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 21:48
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Quote: "That is just barbaric. Honestly, in this modern age, this is just bellow us."


BWAHAhAHAHHAHA!

You may dismiss that as "barbaric"; but hell, it is the only method of execution that actually managed to KEEP people from killing other people.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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power mousey
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Hang em high!

"_"
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SamHH
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 23:06
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I am against the death penalty for many reasons.
The cost of prosecuting someone for capital punishment far exceeds that of having them in prison for life.
Killing is never right, no matter who is being killed, no one deserves to die.
The fact that the death penalty exists does not stop someone who is not being rational from committing a crime.
Victims have families, but so do criminals, to execute their family member is to give them the same grief, that the victims family has.
Citing a T.V. show as evidence that your position is right is ridiculous, they are fictional, and are entertainment.
The bible is not the final word on justice because we have a separation between church and state
If the bible is the final say in your opinion then ask yourself: What would Jesus do, as I remember Jesus didn't want people to have revenge.
Many countries without the death penalty have very low crime rates.
This person is obviously guilty of the crime, and no one disbutes that,and I'm sure everyone wants this person punished.
Just my thoughts



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David R
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 23:19
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Quote: "yes.

i never said i was choosing it for being painless."


Care to justify why you would want to die by guillotine then?


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:11
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Quote: "The cost of prosecuting someone for capital punishment far exceeds that of having them in prison for life."


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Surely it costs less to decapitate someone etc. than it does to keep them alive, fed and watered for fifty or more years.

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Grandma
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:13
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If i would have to face death penalty for some obscure reason. I'd choose the guillotine too. A few seconds (if even that much) of horrendous experience dying that way in change for being forevered remebered as a spechul person is totally worth it. Also, dying by a needle the humane way, is an insult to my great honor.

Preferably though, i'd like to go down with a bang. Mostly metaphoric, but literally will do too. Interpret it as you wish.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:27 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 00:32
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Quote: "You may dismiss that as "barbaric"; but hell, it is the only method of execution that actually managed to KEEP people from killing other people.
"


That is just another myth. The US has death penalty and one of the highest murder rates in the entire world, while my own country, that does not have death penalty, have much, much less murders.

Quote: "How did you arrive at that conclusion? Surely it costs less to decapitate someone etc. than it does to keep them alive, fed and watered for fifty or more years."


Does it really matter how much the cost is? Not to me, I value a single human life more then all money in the world!

Grandma:

Atomic bomb !

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:40 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 00:40
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You do realize that there are more guns in America than anywhere else?

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Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:46
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Canada is an gun loving country to, and does not really have so many murders as the US. Besides, that has nothing to do with that death penalty has about no impact on the murder rate what so ever. And even if it did I would be against it, because it is the lazy way for the sociaty not to care.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:48
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Quote: "You do realize that there are more guns in America than anywhere else?
"


Actually, I don't have the evidence at my fingertips just now, but in another thread I had done some quick research and while America had the most guns and most murders out of the countries I was comparing, the murder rate was actually slightly lower in PROPORTION to the other countries. America has a large population compared to the smaller European countries, so of course the murder count will be significantly higher.

Even still, my info could be wrong. It's been awhile and I don't remember where I got it all for sure or anything.

It all boils down to the fact that if someone wants to kill somebody else it's relatively easy to do with or without a gun... so.

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Chenak
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:49 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 00:53
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The lethal injection is apparently the most inhuman way of execution in america since the injection used to put a subject to sleep works differently on different people, and they cant be bothered to compensate for this. Imagine watching someone injecting with you with all those chemicals while you watch, without being able to do anything as you're fully aware of your internal organs shutting down. So yer having your head chopped off or being shot would be far less painful lol.

Btw, if you approve the death penalty and someone innocent is put into jail and excecuted for a crime they didn't commit, you are infact a murderer and under that system you should be put to death

Death penalty would be okay if you were sure the person you were killing was actually guilty... Its surprising the amount of close calls there were in america. I saw on a documentary, This guy was a few days from being killed for the murder of a shop assistant, a witness saw him at the crime scene and that was the only peice of evidence this guy was sent to jail for (he had some previous minor convictions which swayed the view of the jury to guilty). SO there he is at death row... days from being killed. Then he was let go. Why you wonder?

Well the witness it turns out was arrested for another attempted robbery and he confessed to the crime aswell. It also turned out that the guy who was about to be excecuted was in a different bloody state at the time of the murder! He was still convicted with no hard evidence or anything! Its probably a 1 in a million mistake but still... He was extremely lucky, but it makes you think... how many innocent people are there on death row O.o

Quote: "Actually, I don't have the evidence at my fingertips just now, but in another thread I had done some quick research and while America had the most guns and most murders out of the countries I was comparing, the murder rate was actually slightly lower in PROPORTION to the other countries. America has a large population compared to the smaller European countries, so of course the murder count will be significantly higher.
"


Yer I heard this too. Also if you take a look at where most of the gun crime acts are... they are in no gun zones... fancy that. Most school shootings and tragic events like that take place in none gun zones but you will never hear the news admit to this since they want the public outcry for bannage or restriction of firearms or something like that. No gun zone = mafia heaven
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Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:55 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 01:01
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Quote: "America has a large population compared to the smaller European countries, so of course the murder count will be significantly higher."


The murder rate will be heigher if you count in %. Plus I´m quite sceptical to that it would be lower in proportion to other countrys. In the US there are over 10000 murders a year if I remember correctly.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Grandma
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 00:58
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Quote: "Atomic bomb "


I don't know. Lot's of collateral damage with that as well as obtain-related problems.

Quote: "It all boils down to the fact that if someone wants to kill somebody else it's relatively easy to do with or without a gun... so."


That's true. If someone really want someone else dead. Then there's not much stopping him or her. An angry person could kill someone with a spoon if nothing else is available. I wouldn't like to be killed with a spoon though. I'd take the guillotine over spoon anyday.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:00
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Quote: "
Yer I heard this too. Also if you take a look at where most of the gun crime acts are... they are in no gun zones... fancy that. Most school shootings and tragic events like that take place in none gun zones but you will never hear the news admit to this since they want the public outcry for bannage or restriction of firearms or something like that. No gun zone = mafia heaven "

Having no gun zones in a gun filled country doesn't mean that guns won't be taken into those places. Those places aren't picked because they are gun free, but because it's where people are. Guns should be banned, in my opinion.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:13
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Quote: "Having no gun zones in a gun filled country doesn't mean that guns won't be taken into those places. Those places aren't picked because they are gun free, but because it's where people are. Guns should be banned, in my opinion."


Then the criminals will have guns and you'll be defenseless.

If you don't look at places like LA where crime is extremely high, we beat out many countries. There's just a few places in the US that skew the statistics.

Quote: "Those places aren't picked because they are gun free, but because it's where people are."


You're not allowed to bring a gun into a police station (unless you're a cop), if you did and pulled it out, what do you think would happen?

If you did that same thing in a school, and all the teachers were packing, would you still pull out a gun in a school?


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:35 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 01:36
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Quote: "Then the criminals will have guns and you'll be defenseless."

Since it's so common people to survive only because they were able to defend themselves with guns . It would save many more lives by taking guns out of the hands of everyone we can than by giving it to everyone. You would also offer a reward for all guns turned in and then impose a harsh penalty for carrying one, even harsher for using one.

Quote: "You're not allowed to bring a gun into a police station (unless you're a cop), if you did and pulled it out, what do you think would happen?"

People have pulled guns in police stations if that's what they want to target. Most people aren't stupid enough to do that though. And also, most murders don't occur in schools or work places, but on the street, and are usually drug or gang related or in the home by a family member.

I do think it's completely ridiculous that police don't have guns in some countries, like England. It makes them have no more power than any civilian with a uniform on. Tasers are a great invention though, but guns should still be carried.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:42
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Quote: "I do think it's completely ridiculous that police don't have guns in some countries, like England. It makes them have no more power than any civilian with a uniform on. Tasers are a great invention though, but guns should still be carried."


I thought English police do now carry guns.

Anyways, I'm not willing to give up my right to protect myself.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:52
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Whether we use that gun to protect ourselves from a robber in our homes, or from another invading country, or from some form of future corrupt government... Well I don't want to lose my right either...

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 01:53 Edited at: 9th Feb 2008 01:55
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Quote: "Anyways, I'm not willing to give up my right to protect myself."

Do you really think there's any more than the tiniest chance that you'll be in a position where you are threatened with a gun and are within range of your own gun and are able to get to it and protect yourself with it?

Quote: "I thought English police do now carry guns."

Last thing I heard they didn't, not sure though.

Quote: "Whether we use that gun to protect ourselves from a robber in our homes, or from another invading country, or from some form of future corrupt government... Well I don't want to lose my right either..."

Invasion would be handled by the military, armed robbers in homes aren't common enough to justify guns, you'd save more lives that you'd lose due to not being able to protect yourself, and I don't worry about a corrupt government, because there are other more effective and less violent ways to fight back other than guns .


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ionstream
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 02:19
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Quote: "No one deserves death."


Hitler deserved death, Stalin deserved death, Ho Chi Minh and Saddam all deserved death. You cannot equate the death of a child to the death of a murderer. Also there is a clear distinction between murdering and killing.

If someone is coming at you with intent to kill you, your life has suddenly become more important than theirs and you have the right to pop him one if you get the chance. Granted thats the worse case scenario, but if it comes to it you'll know what you have to do.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Feb 2008 02:36
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Quote: "Invasion would be handled by the military, armed robbers in homes aren't common enough to justify guns, you'd save more lives that you'd lose due to not being able to protect yourself, and I don't worry about a corrupt government, because there are other more effective and less violent ways to fight back other than guns ."


Yes, until you find it's the military attacking you, like in Chile (my mom lived there for many years, and sure enough, guns were banned there.)

However, I don't fear for a military take over, but if the government should collapse, it would be handy to have a gun.

Quote: "Do you really think there's any more than the tiniest chance that you'll be in a position where you are threatened with a gun and are within range of your own gun and are able to get to it and protect yourself with it?"


So are you saying it's only useful to pull a gun if you have one pulled on yourself? If someone tries to mug you at knife point, pull out your glock and see how much they get away with

Anyways, I don't live in a larger city. I live in a fairly low crime area, particularly there's little violent crime, so I don't carry a gun. If I were to move to a big city, it'd be a different story.

You've been fortunate not to be in need of a gun.

If, heaven forbid, something bad were to happen to you or your family. I can almost guarantee you'd be considering purchasing one after the fact.


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