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Geek Culture / What is a Black hole?

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TheComet
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 13:30 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 13:31
Hey guys!

I`m just curios, what you think a Black hole is:

1)What is it made of?
2)Where does it lead to?
3)What size is it?
4)How was it made?

This is my opinion, but you can always disagree:

1) It is made of highly compressed matter
2) No where! It is a small ball.
3) It`s the size of the biggest stars compressed into the tiniest pin prick.
4) Through one of those big unstable stars exploding, a super nova, causing the mass of the star to compress into a tiny ball. The gravitational pull of that mass gets too great for the star to expand again, and it holds itself together.

Now lets here your opinions!

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 15:14
I'm sure the science types have something to say about this...Unfortunately when I learned physics at school everybody in my class was monumentally disruptive - but I do know what a black hole is.

but I can certainly say a black hole is made from an implosion, not an explosion, there is a difference.

As for opinions, well I would say a black hole is a philosophical debate, it's what scientists have concluded after being given strong evidence and observations - to dispute it, you'd need stronger evidence. So really what is a black hole? Pick up a science journal and it'll tell you.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 15:35
Isn't it said it's built from a collapsing star?


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 15:48 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 15:48
Imploding right? That's the word my old physics teacher used. If not, thus I have any piece of evidence to prove that the teaching at the school I went to was crap.

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Numlock
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 16:14
Basically when a star burns out it collapses on itself under its own gravity to form an object whose density is infinite: in other words, a singularity.

Just wiki it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
Grandma
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 16:58
Quote: "Basically when a star burns out it collapses on itself under its own gravity to form an object whose density is infinite: in other words, a singularity."


Yes, but that only happen to the gargantuan stars. Our own sun for example is too small to become a black hole. Pathethic sun.

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Luciferia
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 19:00
B lack hole is tiny ball of matter that bends space to such a degree that it doesn't so much pull you in as you fall in because of the bend in space.
Quote: "Pathethic sun."
lol
Mr Z
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 19:27
An black hole is an thing that are normally born when stars die (HUGE stars, that is). The black hole itself, with the event horizon and everything, can be really big. I have heard some are even as big as galaxies (do not know if this is true, though). In the center of every spiral galaxy, there exist an super massive black hole, who have an finger in createing them. If I remember correctly, these ones where not born from dying, super huge stars.

Anyway, black holes have an core. This core is the only thing made out of matter in it, and it is called an singularity. An singularity is an infinate compact object that covers an infinate small area in space (the rest of the black hole is just the "effect" of the core, and this effect can be really huge). It has such strong gravity that not even light can escape, something that makes it invisible and gave it its name. The only way we can see it is by studying how it effect the environment around it.

There exist two cores. One dot-shaped and one ring-shaped.

Where an black hole leads to is actually something we do not know. It may be an gate to other universes, or it might just lead the core.

Black holes are also an wiered thing in science. Because you cannot use any traditional theorys about how thing work in it, some say the laws of physics collapse in it.

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El Goorf
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 19:30 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 19:31
a point of such strong gravity that even light cant escape. we know that light can be effected by gravity because we see the light reflected off jupiter's moons get distorted by the planets gravity field, but the gravity from black holes is song strong that light gets completely sucked in, hence they're "black".

if you were to approach a black hole, the acceleration your body would experience is so rapid that (summing you went head first) your head would be pulled in faster than your feet, hence you'd be stretched and ripped into a string of particles, though that string would be being pulled apart the whole time too.

there is a super black hole at the centre of every galaxy, which the gallactice bodies orbit around, just like we orbit the sun, though of course, there are objects which lose sync of the orbit and fall in, or get hurled outwards, like assteroids.

I once got taught as part of my phsyics course the formula for gravitational pull based on mass and density, but i forget ^_^

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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 19:38
Quote: "there is a super black hole at the centre of every galaxy"

Or so it is assumed.

David R
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 19:39 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 19:40
EDIT: Nevermind


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Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 20:41
I saw this really interesting program about stephen hawking and his theory is that there are "atoms" (can' remember if they are atoms or not) appearing out of nowhere in pairs, one has positive mass, the other negative mass, normally these are attracted to each other and they cancel each other out disappearing again. This is happening everywhere all the time.

At the event horizon of a black hole things are a bit different. The positive atom has enough energy to escape the black hole but the negative atom doesn't and is sucked into the black hole decreasing its mass by a fraction.

The atoms that escape have positive mass, they become stable and don't disappear. The theory is that black holes can create whole galaxies!

n008
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 20:51
1. Energy
2. Uhm... It's center.
3. Depends.
4. A star's gravity outrunning itself, causing it to swallow its own gravity, thus making an near infinite point of gravity.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
Mr Z
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 21:13
Quote: "I saw this really interesting program about stephen hawking and his theory is that there are "atoms" (can' remember if they are atoms or not) appearing out of nowhere in pairs, one has positive mass, the other negative mass, normally these are attracted to each other and they cancel each other out disappearing again. This is happening everywhere all the time.

At the event horizon of a black hole things are a bit different. The positive atom has enough energy to escape the black hole but the negative atom doesn't and is sucked into the black hole decreasing its mass by a fraction.

The atoms that escape have positive mass, they become stable and don't disappear. The theory is that black holes can create whole galaxies!"


That is correct, but it is not positive and negative mass, but rather matter and anti-matter. But the rest is right .

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
David R
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 21:19
Quote: "but it is not positive and negative mass, but rather matter and anti-matter."


Mass is a measure of matter, so it makes no difference, either description makes sense.


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 21:42 Edited at: 5th Mar 2008 21:43
EDIT: Never mind.

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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 21:57
Black Hole AKA The Noobs Brain

1)What is it made of?
A lack of matter inside the skull of the unsuspecting noob...
2)Where does it lead to?
A void where all learned knowledge is lost, in one ear and lost forever to the individual
3)What size is it?
It has negative size...
4)How was it made?
Inbreeding i suspect...

~Cyrano De Bergerac~
Mr Z
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 22:12
Quote: "Mass is a measure of matter, so it makes no difference, either description makes sense."


Really? Because I have learned that it has to do with other things. Antimatter has another electrical charge then "normal" matter (to put it simply, it also has another "construction", so to speak). And besides, tachyons are not antimatter and they have negative mass. So the two are different.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 22:17
Both of those things are theoretical concepts...unless we are in the Star Trek universe...

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The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
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Mr Z
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 22:59
What? Is Star Trek just science fiction?

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
ionstream
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 23:02
EDIT: Never mind. Ever.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 00:14
What confuses me is: why does a star turn into a black hole after it dies? It has the same mass before, so why doesn't it collapse?

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
Satchmo
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 00:38
Black holes can also warp time I've heard, someone near a black hole will look extremely slow when compared to someone far away, but to the person near the black hole, time appears normal, but if they were to look at the person far away, they would look very fast.

tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 00:44
Yes, the whole idea is that time is distorted at a black hole. The centre of it is called a singularity and is theorized to be a single point of infinite mass. The event horizon is the point of no return, the point at which even light is sucked in by gravity. We can't see past it as there's nothing there that we can see from the outside (since the gravity is too strong and keeps it there). In real life, we cannot see black holes like those beautiful orangish artist impressions, usually there is some form of accretion or debris that is sucked towards it, but no, we can't see them.

Most likely, if you get into it you go through some extreme pain as your either ripped apart or pressurized into the size of an atom.

They're actually disputed, there are alternative theories as dark stars and similar other concepts.


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 01:06
The way you recognize black holes is by seeing stars and other things around it move about it, also, if it passes infront of a star you temporarily can't see anything.

Apparently when you get sucked into one you just get spaggettified and break apart into atoms, lol. Wouldn't hurt I don't think.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
BMacZero
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 01:39 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 01:42
Yes..there's an interesting book called "Death by Black Hole" by Neil DeGrasse Tyson that I read a while ago. It's not just about Black Holes but about physics quandaries and stuff about gravity and space. The author said something like El Goorf and Zotoaster did.

Quote: "If you stumbled upon a black hole and found yourself falling feet-first toward its center, then as you got closer the black hole's force of gravity would grow astronomically. ..While you fall, the black hole's force of gravity at your two feet, they being closer to the black hole's center, accelerates them faster than does the weaker force of gravity at your head...Your body would stay whole until the instant the tidal force exceeded your body's molecular bonds. That's the gory moment when your body snaps into two segments, breaking apart at your midsection. Upon falling further, the different in gravity continues to grow, and each of your two body segments snaps into two segments. Shortly thereafter, those segments each snap into two segments of their own, and so forth..."


It's quite a fun book to read, he has a great sense of humor:

Quote: "To all the words in the English language that describe ways to die (e.g., homicide, suicide, electrocution, suffocation, starvation) we add the term "spaghettification.""


Surprisingly, he goes on to add that only very small black holes are able to "spaghettify" people. This is because
Quote: "the tidal force on you is greatest if your size is large compared with your distance to the center of the object"


To actually answer some of the questions:

What is it made of? Densely compacted matter from surround stars and spaghettified people

Where does it lead to? Nowhere, really, just a very dense ball of matter that you will smash into at a very high speed.

What size is it? Black holes vary greatly in size - the size is directly proportional to their mass, or how much matter they suck in.

andrey d
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 01:57
There's no actual answer to this since the whole topic of black holes is just speculation.
tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 02:20
Well, basically its a theory. As far as I'm aware, a theory is considered a (or the most) plausible hypothesis.


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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 02:32
Call me lazy, but I don't want to read through all the stuff...I just wanted to post for a bit of amusement..

1)What is it made of?
blackness
2)Where does it lead to?
the other side of the hole
3)What size is it?
how big was the shovel?
4)How was it made?
refer to above


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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 03:59
1.) a ton of mass in an extremely small volume, infinitely dense.
2.) that's like asking where a tin foil leads to.
3.) its a singularity, no area
4.) a huge piece of matter unable to support itself that has so much gravity the center begins collapsing the surface in which does happen in many other places, but the pull is so strong, that things fuse and squish and they compact smaller and smaller until its nothing.

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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 04:18
"What confuses me is: why does a star turn into a black hole after it dies? It has the same mass before, so why doesn't it collapse?"

Two forces are fighting against each other. The mass wants to collapse due to gravity, but nuclear reactions (explosions) want to blow the star apart. These two forces balance out each other until most of the nuclear fuel is spent. As the reactions slow the balance shifts to gravity and the star collapses.
andrey d
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 08:06
Quote: "Well, basically its a theory. As far as I'm aware, a theory is considered a (or the most) plausible hypothesis."

The magical thing about theories is that they can't be proven wrong either.
TheComet
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 08:17 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 19:50
Quote: "I saw this really interesting program about stephen hawking and his theory is that there are "atoms" (can' remember if they are atoms or not) appearing out of nowhere in pairs, one has positive mass, the other negative mass, normally these are attracted to each other and they cancel each other out disappearing again. This is happening everywhere all the time."


That`s right. I heard that story, and it said, that when only a positive or negative appear, without the opposite of them, a big bang is created somewhere out of our universe, creating a new universe.

I don`t know if that`s true, but I believe it.

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.
Grandma
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 08:36
Quote: "The magical thing about theories is that they can't be proven wrong either."


That's not true. If it was, we'd still believe the sun orbits the earth and the earth is flat etc. Some still do believe that though...

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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 08:39
I think he meant that you can't say it's wrong on the simple fact that it's a theory.


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MSon
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 12:20 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 12:20
Quote: "What confuses me is: why does a star turn into a black hole after it dies?"

It won't neccessaraly become a blackwhole, i think our sun will turn into a Nova Star, (I think thats the name), which is when there is not anouth energy to create a black whole, it create a planet like structure which spins at uncontrolable speeds causeing a gravitational field which is huge in strenth, but possably only a few millimeters thick, thats neat i think, except for the fact that NovaStars give off tones of Leathal Radiation in pulses from there poles.

Either way, where still doomed to extinction

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Mr Z
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 14:24
It is only super duper massive stars that becomes black holes, and when they do they do not explode in supernova, they explode in hypernova, which is FAR more... explosive .

If an star is not heavy enough to become an black hole, they can become an white dwarf or an neutron star. And I think that those who are light enough do not even explode, they just... die. And become an white dwarf. Not sure, though.

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Grandma
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 16:22 Edited at: 6th Mar 2008 16:23
Okay, i've tried to ignore it for a long time. I think the time has come to reveal the ugly face of reality once and for all.



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David R
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 17:50
Quote: "The magical thing about theories is that they can't be proven wrong either"


I assume you meant to say the reverse: Which is that something can always be proven incorrect, but you can never prove something to be totally correct


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 18:17
Quote: "^Please learn when to use "an" and "a" correctly, it's driving me nuts"


Thank you, glad a non-native English speaker said it, I don't grammar Nazi, but that's the one of the things that hurts my brain - I'm sure some people don't know the language well enough, at least it's a simple rule enough to get the hang of.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Mar 2008 19:46
It's an simple rule, and a extremely easy to master one too.


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andrey d
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 07:43
Quote: "I assume you meant to say the reverse: Which is that something can always be proven incorrect, but you can never prove something to be totally correct"

I love it when people go around "disproving" theories with...other theories. It's a shame I can't remember the name of the book that I read, it talked about how "facts" changed rather rapidly over a short course of time. So in the end, a theory can never really be proven wrong, just not accepted.
TheComet
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 13:32 Edited at: 7th Mar 2008 17:18
Here is some info from Wikipedia:



The image above is a Simulated view of a black hole in front of the Milky Way. The hole has 10 solar masses and is viewed from a distance of 600 km. An acceleration of about 400 million g is necessary to sustain this distance constantly.[1]


A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing can escape after having fallen past the event horizon. The name comes from the fact that even electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light) is unable to escape, rendering the interior invisible. However, black holes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon, for example by drawing in gas from an orbiting star. The gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperatures and emitting large amounts of radiation in the process.[2][3][4]

While the idea of an object with gravity strong enough to prevent light from escaping was proposed in the 18th century, black holes, as presently understood, are described by Einstein's theory of general relativity, developed in 1916. This theory predicts that when a large enough amount of mass is present within a sufficiently small region of space, all paths through space are warped inwards towards the center of the volume, forcing all matter and radiation to fall inward.

While general relativity describes a black hole as a region of empty space with a pointlike singularity at the center and an event horizon at the outer edge, the description changes when the effects of quantum mechanics are taken into account. Research on this subject indicates that, rather than holding captured matter forever, black holes may slowly leak a form of thermal energy called Hawking radiation.[5][6][7] However, the final, correct description of black holes, requiring a theory of quantum gravity, is unknown.






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David R
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 17:04
Quote: "I love it when people go around "disproving" theories with...other theories."


Proof requires evidence though, so usually a theory is "disproven" with sufficient evidence to do so


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Dared1111
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 20:21
It can be anything it doesnt lead to anywhere but time stops in it.

It is a dead star.


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TheComet
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 20:35 Edited at: 8th Mar 2008 00:29
I heard of this theory.

The universe came from nothing(The Big Bang), so the black hole leads to nothing. It`s like a universe is created, and for fun, there are vacuum cleaners that suck up everything again, to remain in perfect balance.

So, a black hole is the opposite of a big bang:The big bang has infinite mass, but no Density. The Black hole has no mass, but infinite Density.

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.
bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Mar 2008 21:50
Quote: "The Black hole has no mass, but infinite gravity."


Black holes do have mass, they have infinite density.


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TheComet
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 00:29
AH! I was looking for the word "Density"

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Keo C
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 00:38
It's like a brown hole, only black.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 01:43
Just saw a special about black holes on History channel last night. Einstein's theory suggested a black hole leads to a white hole on the other side


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