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3 Dimensional Chat / pump-action shotgun for sale

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Teep
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 20:27
Quote: "Add to this i doubt you've even got permission from the gun manufacture to reproduce one of thier models for retail, you can anyone who downloads the weapon could be done for copyright infringement."

this is not benelli, this is not remington etc. this is just a shotgun so no prob's like that should occure.

and raven, im not gonna even reply to u anymore, if u dont like what im doing then its not my problem. study my last post's. well, yes i am going to reply: thanks for posting the screenie. see, it isnt that hard to be polite.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2003 22:48
i'm not being polite... i did it because someone couldn't see your post of it, which is actually not polite.

i ain't gonna study any stupid post, i understand full well why your doing this and i'm still going to take offense for it.
and you know your an idiot because you STILL need permission to use photos from sites, they're under copyright too.

it doesn't matter if the weapon is a new design or crossbreed... YOU STILL NEED PERMISSION, but why exactly would someone like you want to understand anything about the business side of things when all you seems to want to do is have $ in your eyes!

HZence
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 07:10
"and again really Artists who believe that every little peice of work they make is worth money makes me sick"

whoooooa raven chill out dawg.....i think it's okay. they don't actually think it's worth money, but they'll know it's worth money if someone actually buys it. then you can't say it's not worth anything.

plus there's nothing wrong with trying to sell your work. what about all the indi developers who are still selling bio-menace/original duke nukem-quality games for 20-30 dollars? well that's their decision not mine...so if i were you i'd stop letting it get to me





SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
WindTech
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2003 11:45
(sorry to seem like i'm coming to your defense Raven, god knows you dont need it! )
Raven is a professional artist unlike most of the people on this forum who are here for advice and fun. He's not pedalling his wares or anything like that. Personally, I think that nearly everything he says has a definate point to consider. All I see here is puu (puurunenteemu) trying to justify something he wrongly believes in...I know that sounds really bad because he does believe in it...but he is literally "wrong" in what he's trying to do...don't mind my ramblings...I'm about to pass out...

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
Teep
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 00:43
i believe raven is more experienced then i am, i believe raven is a lot better 3d modeler then i am. but i can honestly say that i know 10 times more about copyright laws then he does.

MikeS
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 01:17
puurunenteemu

*sigh*

Trust me man, take this post no further.You are obviously not ready to sell your work, if you're acting this childish.

Quote: "can honestly say that i know 10 times more about copyright laws then he does."


Why don't you prove it then, oh wait, isn't it already too late for that.You've already been proven wrong by this statement in earlier posts.

puurunenteemu, read these words.
You're acting like a child, and your arguing shows that you are childish, and not ready to sell your work.Your invalid arguement about your work shows, that you are not confident about any of your work.I wouldn't even consider buying from you ever, not if you act in this unprofessional manner.




Yellow:Wanna publish my game microsoft, cuz i no u rich so...Can I have my bag of money now?
Microsoft: *snicker* Tip of the month-Microsoft will never(probebly) publish your game.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 03:14
Quote: "but i can honestly say that i know 10 times more about copyright laws then he does."


... if you say so

Mattman
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 04:42
Quote: "can honestly say that i know 10 times more about copyright laws then he does."
ya. I bet. And i'm the prince of England's uncle's barbacue's assembly line workey's nephew's grandfather's brother's daughter's pet cow!!!

---Mattman
DID YOU KNOW THAT ???
HZence
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 04:49 Edited at: 24th Jul 2003 05:46
dude guys, please. him saying "i can honestly say i know 10 times more about copyright laws than raven" is the first thing he said in his OWN FREAKING defense this whole thread! before he just bent over and took it like a man and accepted the criticism. but raven, it's fine that you don't think it's worth that, just face it, if he doesn't wanna take it off the market he's not going to! maybe he's not as good a 3D modeler as raven but guess what? few of us are professional programmers yet some are trying to sell our games - and we're not flipping out on each other about that. just let the guy go already i don't think he deserves this. you're talking about him acting childish. maybe you should read what you've posted and think twice. now here it comes, the part where i get bashed for not going along with the crowd but that's what i believe and i also believe that some of these responses are repulsive. i hope a mod locks this thread.

in response to below, the point is that it's okay to give your opinion, but i don't think there is a point to continue ranting and raving about it especially when the only person that can change it is him - and i'm doubtful he'll do that. he'll figure out it's not worth 32 or 25 dollars when no one buys it.

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
Mattman
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 04:52
Quote: "maybe he's not as good a 3D modeler as raven but guess what? few of us are professional "
Then maybe don't sell it fora porfessional price!!!

---Mattman
DID YOU KNOW THAT ???
MikeS
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 04:57
The reason we don't have a cow when a db/dbp game sells is because they include about 100 models like this one. Plus it probebly took anywhere from 1-5 hours to make that gun where as a entire game probebly took 100-200 hours of time.The games that do sell for Db/dbp aren't even usually $25, maybe $19.99.Anyways, the db/dbp games that do sell, are worth the money.



Yellow:Wanna publish my game microsoft, cuz i no u rich so...Can I have my bag of money now?
Microsoft: *snicker* Tip of the month-Microsoft will never(probebly) publish your game.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 11:44
i'm sure that if someone sold a DBP game which wasn't upto spec for $45 everyone would be like ...
"$45!? c'mon are you trying to take us for mugs?!"

the funny thing is though with models its different isn't it, because no one truely knows how much work is worth within the industry - and alot of freelance artists who only do it for the money make so much more than a pro who worked fulltime.

if he wants to swindle people, then he can go to the big forums - where he will actually have to WORK to earn that dollar. Not into the smaller ones where everyone is kinda niave...

sorry but there just ain't any defense for the insults he is giving out through this... you wanna learn about modeling, then learn.
you want freelance then freelance.
But don't try to pretend to be something you ain't - I ain't no programmer, people here think i am ... but i know i'm not.
People ask me for code all the time for all sorts of things, i could charge ... hell i could probably charge the same as a Jnr Programmer.

I won't though, because
a) i respect that these people are hobbiests NOT professionals, what they pay for is out of thier own pocket ... not the pocket of some multinational publishing company!
b) i'm not going to fawn off these people to be something i'm not. Sure i could pretend like i can code, but just look at TAToad and IanM - those guys can actually code, next to them i can't do squat!
AND I KNOW THAT TOO.

its about learning your place in the foodchain man, you want to survive you learn that place quickly because no matter how much you pretend to be something too big to eat - one day the sharks are gonna realise you ain't one of them and tear you limb from limb.

you should respect the talent you have and not pretend like it is something bigger than it is. you should respect the people around you because they don't deserve to have someone in everything just for the money - alot of them are impressionable young kids.
you should respect those who HAVE more experience than you and not try to pawn yourself off as one of them.

and i don't care who you think you might be i can tear down the best of people when they step those boundries. (and everyone here know that too)

Teep
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 12:06
Quote: "your arguing shows that you are childish"

im not here to fight or argue, if i've given that kind of an impression im sorry. i came here so i could sell 1-10 pieces of this model and im completely pleased with the results i allready have.

Quote: "Why don't you prove it then, oh wait, isn't it already too late for that."

i have allready, there is nothing in the package that is un-authorised. the modeling job is made by me, the model is based on an image that i have the permission to use. i really have read almost everything regarding to copyright's.

as for me being unprofessional, i agree to that on certain areas but childish? my replies never were not and still arent ment to insult raven or anyone who replied. i apologise if i gave that idea.

Quote: "Trust me man, take this post no further"

i wasnt excepting more then 10 replies at maximum, im not the one taking this post further. i seriously agree that the mod's can lock this thread, this kind of an arguement & insulting is ridicilous.

Quote: "all you seems to want to do is have $ in your eyes!"

im not taking this that seriously, my expectations were couple hundred dollars at max.

anyway, the shotgun will be drawn from the market soon. i've got money enough to buy myself couple new DVD's

this is my last reply to this thread, so goodbye & thank you for the feedback, it has been constructive as i said.

Teep
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 12:10
Quote: "and i don't care who you think you might be i can tear down the best of people when they step those boundries. (and everyone here know that too)"

ok, this i hafta reply. u r not taking me down, im not taking seriously anyone who uses such words as "flying f**k" and then starts talking about unprofessionalism

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 23:51
what somehow you think that just because someone uses the saying "give a flying f**k" that somehow that make them seem unpro?
cause that has NOTHING to do with being Pro...

none of this has anything to do with being Pro... this has to do with you pretending your something your not, and the fact that people have actually bought this just purely sickens me.

...

your nothing but a disgrace and an insult to me, you wanna earn a little cash on the side do what everyone else does. GET A JOB!

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 24th Jul 2003 23:51
One thing that really annoys me about 3d models off the net is the actual information that affects me as a programmer.



I need to know:

Texture size?

How many texture files? (makes more difference to speed than polycount - 1 file please!)

Is it rigged for animation? (does the pump move in this case, in other guns is the bolt animated or more importantly, animateable).

Is the texture stretched over the top edge (many guns are really 2D textures stretched into a 3D box - they dont look good as first person shooter guns).


What I expect of polycount:

For an close up gun I could blow 2000 polys, but I see many good guns come in at under 1000 for the same view - therefor 2000 is excessive unless the model has earned every polygon.

For a gun to be used on a bad guy it needs to come in the hundreds, not the thousands, and as most applications will see the gun both in the first person 'held' position and on other characters I therefor would require either high/low polygon versions, or a good low polygon weapon.


What I would pay:

I would expect to pay more than $30 for a model I use in a final game, however if I am writting a free game for the indi-scene (as much of this board is) then i'm not paying a penny for models - I buy model collections such as DarkMATTER, but $30 for a single model for a free to download game is too much.

For a commercial game where your price tag clearly pitches you I expect to know the answers to the above questions, and I expect to be able to download and use a free sample of your work so I can see it in my engine and better understand how you construct your models.

In terms of commercial quality I can only compare your gun to more expensive commercial models, because $30 is not an indi-scene price tag. In this regards yes your model is cheaper, but it is also not adequate for a commercial game by comparison.


My best recommendation to you is to identify more clearly the market you are trying to appeal too and build models specifically for that market.

Your work clearly shows you have some talent and I wish you all the best in your future work.

Pneumatic Dryll
Wiggett
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Posted: 29th Jul 2003 08:35
well i dont buy models so charge whatever you want i dont care, btu whats the point of a scope on a shotgun it's like "gee i hope one of the little pellets will make it far enough to hit what im looking at accurately"

working on the game undead nazi pirates of the kungfoorabean. this game is random to the max.
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/unpotkf/
Bangla
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Posted: 29th Jul 2003 12:54
If he want to sell his stuff, why get worked up about it? Professionalism? Hell, look at the art today, there's lots and lots of unproffessionalism that sells more than professional art today, simply because: it's the buyers market. If someone doesn't like it, sure as hell they don't want to part with money for it even if it is professional but if they like it, sure why not? It couldn't have been that bad an art-piece then, could it? Unprofessional or not. It's still their money and if they wanna part with it for the sake of some unproffessional art, then let them.

I know nothing of the unwritten rules of the artist in the game-world, that I admit, but living as an unemployed painter (not a commercial artist) for many years, living off the meager existence earned on the few art-pieces I did a year, I can't really say I haven't stumbled over andy unwritten rules, at least not in the art-community. But that was in Sweden, don't know how it is where you live. There is some envy and fighting over scolarships and grants, but that is mostly passing things.

Anyway, an unproffessional artist can make as much money, if not more, than a professional, simply by having lower prices or more pieces to sell. Who cares if you buy art from an unproffessional guy or girl, as long as you like what you buy? Unproffessional? No, just better at pleasing the people interested at buying. Just because an artist is unproffessional does not mean that people don't want to buy his stuff. Sure, it's a sour apple for the proffessional painter, but if he is what I want to call, a "true artist", then he won't care if the unproffessional guy makes money on his art, as long as he himself is free to pursuit his own type of art.

I've heard how people shouldn't "delute the market with crap-art" or "peddling with something they dabbled with for the moment" but there is no such thing as crap-art! There's so many views on art as there is eyes and ears, and since eye-sight and hearing both are mediums, that also gives a large number of possible interpritations on what art really is.

So, I can't understand why he shouldn't contribute with his share of pieces (3d-models) to the market? For the sake of proffessionalism? For the sake on unproffessionalism? So he doesn't delute the market? So he won't rubb other artists the wrong way? Should he care?

I say; "let em come and be judged". Put your goods in the store-window and if it sells, then it's obvious worth something to someone, if it doesn't... well, then it's back to the drawing-board. The price only concerns two people; the buyed and the seller. And if someone has to say anything about the way you want to make a dime, it's up to the artist if he wants to listen or not, as long as what he does is legal. Let other artist do what they want to do. In the end, you know what your art is worth, or isn't.

400 Mhz, 120 Meg, TNT2 - and then some...
Guyon
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Posted: 29th Jul 2003 23:20 Edited at: 30th Jul 2003 00:10
Well I am a professional and work with 3ds Max. While I find this thread quite amusing; I look at it in a real life situation.

If i pass a store and see something way over priced I simply move on, instead of making a huge fuss. Would you through insults at the store manager and cause a scene?

Better yet look at all the over priced shipping on ebay. $8 shipping on a single collectible game card? We could spend all day writing people there about their greedy S/H and over priced products.

As for me? I will just simply move on.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Jul 2003 11:19
Guyon its not the same as a highstreet shop though...
lets pick something we'll all know about, like computer games.

Now on the highstreet first of all you have the option of 2 or 3 shops which retail computer games.
So before anything else you KNOW you have a choice.

secondly the prices within these shops are regulated by RRP (Recommended Retail Prices) ... you know that the value of a brand new PCCD game is $45.
so you know when someone is overcharging for a game. and you also know that you have another shop that will supply the exact same stuff to you, perhaps cheaper.

as far as the computer businesses go though once you get out of the retail stores there are no RRP for products, there are no obvious alternative options. Oftenly your options are very different and unappealing so you purchase based on what you need at the time rather than a complete package.

think about it... some people charge $250/website others charge $50/websites. they all offer different definitions of what they consider a website, what they consider professional work, what they believe is an extra or inclusive.
And your options for companies that create such things might be a dime a dozen, but there are no like "reputable" companies which actually have a name for themselves doing such work.

you choices oftenly come down to price vs package
and people will pay for what they feel is best value - NOT what is cheapest or the best package.

oftenly creators don't put up any details which are actually nessisary to know... such "will the site be programming in html/asp/php/frontpage2000?" ... "what data base programming will be included if any?" ... "will it be compatible with the server i currently subscribe to?"

webdevelopers could make you an awesomely fantastic site for say $200, but thats right down the toilet if your webserver doesn't support MsSql and thats the database they used!

... ...

doing such things in a small community which doesn't know any better... i mean thats like going into a school playground and opening up a tuck shop selling mars bars for $1-2 each.
if the kids have the money they'll buy them simply because they don't know any better.

It would be upto the teachers to make sure that either the tuck shop cannot be setup or that they sell thier sweets for a fair price!

the kids won't care that its overpriced, they just think its great to have a place you can just buy sweets ... you people are going to honestly tell me that, its a free country and free enterprising is fine, even though you know this person is swindling children who don't know any better?

oki perhaps not everyone around here is a child still, but when it comes to knowing a respectable price for goods of this nature alot of people here and in small businesses don't have the first clue.
It's why freelance programmers can make so much more than fulltime programmers - because they deliberately shaft people who think they're doing them a good cheap service.

if they knew they truth perhaps they'd hire small businesses to actually take the contracts on instead... but they don't!

the_winch
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Posted: 31st Jul 2003 03:41
The vast majority of real world busines change as much as they can for a product even if the customers are stupid. When someone is selling a model why is it wrong for them to use this method?
Toilet Freak
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Posted: 31st Jul 2003 04:24
lol

It isn't me thats good it's the program I'm using thats good...
John H
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Posted: 31st Jul 2003 04:57
Not intended to be a flame:

Has anyone bought it?

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
Porting all files to my new computer
Mnemonix
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Posted: 31st Jul 2003 05:49
Yeah, i think thats the question that really needs to be asked. This is a discussion forum and topics which are used only to try and make a quick buck should not be posted here. If you are persistent about putting media up for sale then provide a link from here to your site and then people probably wont say anymore about it, they will either make the purchase or ignore it.

my two cents

"We are getting aggravated"
"Yes, we are"
hooray_for_db
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 22:18
Raven, thanks for posting the screenshot. His website is down (at least when I tried looking), nice to see the model that sparked all this controversy.

Teemu, that's a beautiful gun you've made. I think it would be cool if you wrote some tutorials showing how to make pretty guns.
vivi
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 12:14
When I’m reading through the post I understand what everyone is saying. The guns too expensive, its not professional enough etc but the way people have come across saying it I feel is a bit harsh. If the post had been "What do you think of my pump action shotgun?" or something like that I’m sure we would of got the usual "looks great", "nice" or "keep up the good work" (followed by a long descriptive post by raven ) but because its got a price tag people seem to feel quite strongly against it. So if anything I can say to mysef for the future:

1)Dont try to sell my models until I get good

2)Description for Raven...."very opinionated"- Don't get on his bad side.

3-Learn from other people mastakes that way I won't make an ass of myself....as the time

vivi


ps

Let me get this right.

The model is good but not for $32 - thats what I seem to get from the post

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 20:53
the model is alright... but imo it isn't even price tag worthy.
the main beef i have here is that people are pushing that it should be fine to take advantage of people.

if we were in the business world, with everyone trying to make ends meat and a profit here with everyone being a responsible adult knowing they have to budget thier purchases.
then by all means this would've just been left.
but look around - we are NOT in the business world - we're in a forum for a very young and mostly bedroom developer based language.
aimed at people of all ages and it particularly appeals to YOUNG people.

you want to take advantage of people... go do it outside.
in here this is the playground, and you people are talking about effectively taking candy from babies.

there is NO viable information on this model, there is no just cause even in the labour means as this model was not made in like 3-4days, the developer said he made it in hours.
in the best modeler with a skinner can't create a model with skin in only 3hrs ... it takes time to develop the main mesh, prep the uv, have the artist create the maps.

for the quickest artists your looking at the better portion of 6-7hrs thats given they actually use a photo as a base.
and i mean base NOT AS the texture!

there's also fact of polygon count, a nice looking shotgun is good and all but if it happens to be 1,500polygons and you budget is 5,000 then thats 25% of your budget on a SINGLE weapon which might require multiple instances.
the textures could look nice in a render at 1024x1024... but most graphics cards require textures to be 512x512 - and thats if you have a nice LARGE ammount of vram, cards with 8mb will want that texture to be either 256x256 or preferably even lower.
you need to know what the vertex setup is... is the export in a format that people can use? with seperate UV vertex or combined UV vertex?

consitancy is a key word when modeling... although the models within say Rouge Spear are bad - they are CONSISTANTLY bad, and you couldn't tell one bad model made by one modeler from another one, most developers here don't even know the meaning of consistancy modeling. It's doubtful they'll touch it and then most things will look out of place some looking good, some looking bad and the developer will wonder why...

i did have a whole other post about this but i doubt people will listen at this point.
it's stupid, i'm sick of people trying to take advantage simply because there is no RRP guide on internet software...

think about it, a shareware game shouldn't be any higher than $20 - why?
simply because the sheer magnatude and alternative options mean that to compete the developers must make sure that it is within people price ranges.

artwork doesn't have this ... artwork generally comes with the "if the buyer is paying that much, then thats what its worth!"
fine if it is an original one of a kind peice of work then yes by all means that is a good way to think of it.

but we're not talking about one of a kind peices of work, we're talking about game models which people are trying to sell to multiple buyers.
Where there is a supply and demand, there should also be a set retail for services rendered ... else the market becomes chaotic and unpredictable.

in order for freelance developers/artists to make a living they must PUSH for a stability within the market, else they could find that what is worth $10 one week is worth $50 the next and $5 the following.
with the business attitude no doubt it might get you far, but in a forum full of children it is very very poor taste.

i know i'm the only one who actually being vocal about the actual issue rather than simply on this one piece of work, but if no one stands up and says "HEY THATS WRONG!" then it will happen again... and again until sometime it becomes common place to ripp people off in a small community like this.

or perhaps sit there and pirate games that other users have worked so hard upon...

i mean christ doesn't ANYONE here actually have any damn morals!?

the_winch
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 15:40 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2003 15:40
WTF are you on about, it's the internet. If people don't persent the ability not to buy something for sale how are they going to cope when they leave the forums.

Quote: "i mean christ doesn't ANYONE here actually have any damn morals!?"


I fail to see how it is immoral to try to sell something on a forum of a commercial product. Even if it is to children who are bairly able to get the cash togeter to buy db in the first place, they arn't exactly going to pay for a model with money they don't have.

For someone with such a problem with it you are doing a good job of bumping it up and keeping it in view.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 23:10
you've missed the point entirely winch ...
it doesn't matter if someone is an adult being ripped off or a child being ripped of. The fact that this community is more prodominantly teens alot of which with more money than sense, it would stand to reason that we'd be trying to protect them.

but its niether here'nor'there who is actually being protected.
the point is that someone is standing by the gates of this place trying to sell people a quick fixx.
whilst it is nice to see that quick fixx at such an exstorionate price, it will still sell because if people fell they need it, they will buy - if they can afford it or not.

when you don't know all the information about something how they hell do you know what your buying. Outside of this forum might be the big bad business world with everyone trying to pedal everything they can for way more than its worth.

but within these 4 CSS Scripted Walls, people should be safe from the jackles of the internet trying to take thier money for a service which IS NOT worth it.
no doubt they will get swindled outside of this forum, but hopefully if they bother paying attention here from users suchas myself they might actually have a far better idea of what to look for when they're buying something.

look at me, i don't know the first thing about cars, i could guarentee you i step onto a second hand car lot and those salesman will take me for every dime i have. So you know what i do?
I get myself a friend who DOES know about cars, what they're worth, howto haggle and such. And i pay attention so that when i have to go out and face these sharks myself I KNOW what i should be looking for - what screws loose could mean the difference between an $18,000 and a $15,000 asking price.

however if i have a second hand car salesman at my door with no one around ... i can guarentee you by the end of that whether i wanted a new car or not - I would have one that doesn't work that i've just shelled out a s**tload for.

are you begining to understand yet?
is ANYONE beginging to understand yet?

i mean look at this guy... what he says. He didn't give a crap about giving anyone a worthwhile game model. All he wanted to do was be able to afford a few DvD's without working.
c'mon - just because this model is no longer on the market you think that i should simmer down until the next person want to make a rube out of half the bloody community?

the moderators won't do anything because this is perfectly legal to do, he isn't breaking any rules. But at the same time this was just plain wrong.
DarkMatter is $25 it contains around 50 different models animated and setup for gaming ... but even that is pretty much a ripper because it is a very limited selection of models. And really the majority of the price of it is for the Enhancements Kit.

i'm not against people retailing what they have to offer, as long as YES they can actually offer something substancial - not just a token.
that they can prove they know what they're doing and be able to hand everyone all the information they need.
To be willing to add enhancements upon request.
To be able to show thier work in a light which allowes you to actually see it... i mean look at the picture for this very model!
it's like trying to show off clothes for sale by photographing them with a bleeding webcam!
and an ounce of professional curtosy about the work.

probably the rudest thing about this person is that he only entered this community to ripp people off.
if he was a more regular member then perhaps this would've just been a case of "c'mon mate be a little reasonable about this." ... but we don't even know this person and he is trying to ripp us off.
if he had a big back catalogue of media then fair enough this would be oki and if his website reflected some ounce of quality for the work provided.
But no - this was all just a kid trying to make a quick buck.

he isn't the first and as long as people allow them to get away with it i very much doubt he will be the last.

actarus
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 16:17 Edited at: 6th Aug 2003 16:18
The model is rather good.

I've seen crappy,correction,very crappy models being sold at outrageous prices(over 100 U$D)...and the author didn't even have a month old in modeling. gheh

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
BobCat
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:03
I can honestly say i would not ever sell a model for anything over £2, unless it was properly textured (look at the handle, one part is striped, the other plain), and at least basicaly animated. how can u sell that pile of crap for $32 - i could by a GBA game and a pack of mars bars for the same price - which would you rather have? Sugary sweetnes and 40 hours of gameplay or a beveled block with a pump action handle that probably wouldnt work , a crappy sight and a spazzed up handle.*push out the anger, bring in the love*

Joe

>^..^< >^..^<
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:28
we have to setup some sorta tap for these kinda people, ya know like an RRP Assosiation - atleast just around the amature communities.

fair enough ripp off the big companies who have everything paid for by budget, but when it comes to bedroom developers barely making ends meat ... i mean what else do people do for fun, go to samalia and each a great big 10ft hogie infront of everyone not giving them a bite then shower themselves in crystal clear water?

i'd be willing to setup a little association to deal with trying to normalise pricing of internet game media - but it would require the backing of people who are actually willing to retail thier work.
no point in trying to normalise with just words ... you need to give a reliable alternative at a fair price.



actarus
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:55
Nice idea you got there in that other warehouse thread.

Hopefully,someone will add acharacter soon to hold that nice shotgun.

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
Van B
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 18:40
Is this crap still going on?

By god Raven sure has got his band of minions riled today.

Why can't you just leave him alone with his model selling and forget about it - what is so irritating about a guy trying to make some extra money?

I've done work for people on this forum for supposed money - never seen a penny of it - wheres my bloody topic about how much of a rip-off that was?, nah, I took it on the chin and got on with things instead of venting here. If it annoys you so much Raven, ignore it, don't tear the guy to shreds and destroy his thread because his work does'nt meet with your expectations - your a user here, just like the rest of us - please show some respect for other users.

Your acting about a million miles from professionally recently, and without giving you an ego - that does effect a lot of other users who read your posts and often stick their own knifes in whether they feel strongly or not.


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 19:07
yeah well i'm sorry but there is just so much crap here at the moment, and to be honest i've had about enough of it.

you have empty on his little rampage to keep putting his 2pennies worth in all over the shop to try and prove me wrong no matter what i do.
There is 8truths who quite frankly is just being a spoilt lil brat.
you have Ermes who is making comments about women which although doesn't affect people like you and me HAS been pissing off alot of the female users to the point where have you notice a good fewer posts from some who were posting nearly daily?
there's Geri with his terrible english wanting to know why people aren't best pleased with him after claiming he pirated DB/DBP.
there's several more users who are harping on about how they pirate software which to someone like myself who is struggling to make some ends meat trying to get my business up and running - knowing that people like those around here are most likely going to ripp me off.

and then you have this guy who comes into a community he doesn't know trys to fawn off a piece of media for an extorsionate price, believes it is a valid mark down to just cut a few bucks off of the top of it ... which pisses me off because people like that ruin the rest of that industry for other people.

How the hell could any truely independant model creator get any half decent work if people buy bildge over and over for extorsionate prices? by the time people are actually setting up thier own little businesses with a good amount of experience and skill, people don't want the services anymore and do it themselves.

just look at website development - i'm not gonna deal with any more so called professionals because each time i have i've been shafted waiting for services that they just leave me hanging.
this isn't about ego or just tearing a single person down ... this is about people livelyhoods that are destroyed by flipping con artists who just want some extra pocket money.

why don't the lazy bums go out and GET A F**KING JOB! instead of taking legitmate business away from people who should be getting it.
thats whats always pissed me off around here - some of the best artists around here are shunned whilst alot of the have-a-go-heros tend to get praised beyond belief for making a sodding cube!
and if they sold that cube for $40... PEOPLE BUY IT!?!
i mean sorry but that doesn't piss you off even a little?

if i sat back and just ignored this people would think that its okay with me. They would think "well if no one says anything obviously this is normal" ... but it isn't.

people can't be left to get away with things, because they then believe its oki and they'll do it again and again.
people don't pay you for a service you give - THEN you make sure they do, else they'll think "oh well i didn't pay him last time, it'll be oki to say i will and not pay him again" or they'll tell their friends who'll do the same.

then it will get to the point where you go "hold on, everyone says they'll pay me for this, that and the other and i've not seen any cash. So i'll just stop helping people"

then people who actually have LEGITIMATE want and capability to hire you to work for them won't be able to because your trust has been broken by people who just wanted to use you.

if this is a pro attitude or not, i don't really care - infact i'm not taking as a pro here... i'm talking as me, as an artist and some who is trying to just be a damn decent person.
you let one too many people get away with pissing in the pool and you'll soon see everything turn into a s**thole where you don't want to go anymore.

we're not in the business world here - there should NOT be a "kill or be killed" attitude. Its not as much fun to be in a place where you have to worry if your being ripped off, or if someone is taking advantage of you ... that sweet innocent place you got to hang with your mates - when are people going to see that turning the other cheek has lead to it turning into a gheto projects?

Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 19:35
Raven,
I think Puu made a shotgun model and thought it might be good enough to sell, if he thought it was amazing he'd be charging $5, but at $30 if he sells it 2/3 times he's made some money from it and it's been worthwhile. I really doubt that he intends to make a career of this. In fact Raven, he's in the same boat as you, trying to get his projects together and make some money from them.

I wish this forum was as supportive as the old forum, I've never said that - I've never pined for the old days but this and RGT too are less and less welcoming, newbies questions are largely answered with sarcasm, the slightest thing can start a flame war, blitzers can infect any topic they like - there's lots of things detrimentally affecting this forum that just would'nt have happend 18 months ago.

That's why propper DB'ers should stick together, because we'll all be here next year, working away and no doubt putting up with new flavours of crap. But you know the best thing for when someone ticks you off? - a little bit of DB - just get stuck into coding and forget about all things irrelevant. For me, this is the place for a break from coding - not the other way around.


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 19:39 Edited at: 6th Aug 2003 19:40
@ raven
If you just stoped posting it would proberly not even be on the first page of the 3d forum anymore. As it is it is kept right at the top where everybody can see it.

The general consensus is that the model is worth a lot less than the price it was being sold for I can't imagine anybody here brought it.

Quote: "How the hell could any truely independant model creator get any half decent work if people buy bildge over and over for extorsionate prices? by the time people are actually setting up thier own little businesses with a good amount of experience and skill, people don't want the services anymore and do it themselves."


I am sure if you where to offer models for a resonable price that people here could afford (a few $) then if anybody here actually wanted to buy models they would sell and the models in excess of $30 wouldn't sell. What forum are you looking at where people are spending lots of money for poor models? It sure isn't this one where there is one post selling a model that you are doing your best to keep at the top. Almost everybody said the model wasn't worth anything like $32. I don't see people paying high prices for crap models, I don't see people selling/buying models here at all.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:09
suppose... but Van i'm not trying to ripp anyone off with my work.
especially not here.

think about it... when i actually do release something (which might not be often) ya'll know that i've actually worked pretty hard to make it work and appear the way it should.
if at the end of everything even if i was planning to sell something - if i dont' feel it was good enough, you'll get it for free.

business wise, in the workplace i can be a jackel when i need to be. Here though, if your going to sell something then i think it is only fair that you actually put in that 110% ... because why should people pay for something that you couldn't really be arsed to make?

haXor
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 22:20
ok, just wodering, but why the hell is there a scope on a shotgun?

Sup Kids
MikeS
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:44
It's ...ummmmm...a shotgun combined with a scope that you use as binoculars... I guess... (even though, it's only one scope and can't be a binocular)

Anyway, yea, why would you even need a scope on a shotgun?
I think it's a design flaw.




Website 50% done (May be out by mid-end August)
haXor
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 06:13
i bet u could get 100 pollys if u took that all off, then u could charge $33 for it

Sup Kids
actarus
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 15:53
I bet most people here would be better modelers/coders if they didn't spent all day nitpicking others...Damn,just did it.

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
Dave J
Retired Moderator
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Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 7th Aug 2003 16:02 Edited at: 7th Aug 2003 16:05
Quote: "Keep up the flame wars.."

If it's a flame war you're after: http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/ that one's being going on for over 10 years...

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
actarus
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 16:10
-Not intended to be a flame:

Has anyone bought it?


Not intended to be a flame:

Have you ever deleted/locked a topic?

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
haXor
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 17:07
hey this is entertaining, dont lock my form of fun on those late nights!

Sup Kids
WindTech
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Posted: 8th Aug 2003 16:54
I swear...if this post reaches 100...you all need to get some hobbies or something...

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
actarus
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Posted: 8th Aug 2003 17:48
Why should anyone care about Teemu seeling this model?

Buy it or don't that's it...If you can't make anything slightly better(like Raven did) then you come from no place to talk about it.(not directed towards you windtech)

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
Arrow
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Posted: 8th Aug 2003 23:27
Can we please drop this?

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
8truths
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Posted: 13th Aug 2003 09:08
I wasn't gonna post until I saw the "reaches 100" comment.

BTW -- the scope on a shotgun is hilarious.

I admire your honesty. Hell, I like you; you can come over to my house and ---- my sister!
Megaman Zero
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Location: United States
Posted: 14th Aug 2003 02:20
@ Raven

Your description of the Shell is pretty accurate, but let me go a bit more into detail. A shotgun shell is a plastic cylinder with a small charge at the bottom of it (i.e. the gunpowder,) & depending on what grade of shell you are using & what type, on the shells content for damage. Elephent shot is larger ball berrings, about 2 or 3 in total, Buck shot is about bb sized, but far more deadly, & lets not forget about my all time favorite, the slug.

The slug is in its own catagory for a type of round. Its used primarily in the swat team for breaching locked doors. In military, then use it for pretty much the same thing, except for the fact that they actually use it on humans too. Its not too accurate, so its best if used very close in range. I suppose its more accurate than buckshot (most common use of a shell.)

I belive the definition of bullet, in the dictionarries is "see projectile" or somewhere along those lines, but in truth (note: this means look at the entry for projectile in the dictionary, not that I am trying to sound stupid, even though this does sound a bit stupid,) its a very accurate description.

BTW, that shotgun is ok, I personaly prefer the looks of the shotgun off of HALO. I agree, no shotgun will have a scope on it, I think what he was trying to make that one, was a laser dot sight, that you will see most of the time with the SAS. However, laser dots look different than scopes, they are bigger than scopes, & they dont have the ends like a scope has.

I would addvise that you would add a tac light on the underside of that gun, as that is more common to see in todays world.

But other than that, its not too bad, at least you can skin better than I can. However, no matter how good it is, I wouldnt pay more than $10 for a model, not matter how good, unless it were humanoid & looked actually real. Now, if you were to put that gun, & 10 more guns in a model pack, then you could probably get away with $25-$35 for it.

I remember someone telling me about a humanoid model that was selling on someones website or something for $100, which no one would buy anyway, so that is just an example.

The way I look at selling things, if its an computer made product that can be downloaded, you will make more money if you sold them for $10 each than you would for $25 or $32, for the simple fact that more people could buy it for that price & they would actually consider buying it, instead of saying, "This looks cool... $25!!!!! Im going to stay away from this site."

I hope this can count towards some constructive critisim on my part, but ive never been too good at anything constructive, unless its for myself.

Zero (Formerly Shadow Guyver)
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