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Geek Culture / Microsoft announces the end of Windows

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Mahoney
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 04:32
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That's true, but the connection is backwards. The ME UI is from 2000.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 04:58
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the GUI isn't the OS though. It's just what you see. It's what's going on behind the GUI that really makes up the OS.

Quote: "I bet they are just trying to get rid of the Windows name. Microsoft will probably still make OSs, just under a different name because Windows has so much bad reputation right now..."

I disagree, almost 100%, with that. I don't think Windows as a whole has a bad reputation. Maybe with all the computer nerds they may have a bad name. But that's really nothing new. XP went through the same thing as Vista did when it first came out. I remember saying to my brother how cool it was and him complaining how it wasn't nearly as good as 2000 and he'll never switch or something. Now we're doing the same thing with Vista/XP. I love vista. I think it's definantly a step forward. Yeah, it's far from perfect. But I think it's competing for one of the best OS's out there. I don't like linux a whole lot. XP is GREAT, I love it, it's home to me. But I think I'll be thinking the same thing with Vista once I get used to it.
I don't get the impression that MS is going to change the name of the OS line. Windows has such a huge name in the world today. They won't drop such a name because a bunch of Linux/Mac loving computer nerds didn't like Vista as much as XP. They're just scrapping all the legacy code. Moving on to bigger and better things.

Again, I'm really excited to see where this goes. I'm a bit worried about backwards compatability, because that's why most people don't like vista, is they feel they can't use their old software/hardware.


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xyzz1233
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 05:57
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So, if Microsoft is doing a kernel that is completely managed, then will we still be able to run native code? Or will we be limited to CLR programs? Additionally, being unable to run C++ programs and things would pose a major threat to the security of your code. Code compiled to CIL can be decompiled right to CIL, or even back to C# or VB.NET or whatever with a tool like Reflector.

People make C++ applications to run CLR programs because it's obviously more difficult to decompile native code than managed code. But what if we can't run C++ code? That would be a big problem.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 05:59
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I think native would be supported. It would be under the managed structure, though. I imagine their would be measures taken to put native apps under more stringent security.

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xyzz1233
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 06:22
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Quote: "I think native would be supported. It would be under the managed structure, though. I imagine their would be measures taken to put native apps under more stringent security."


That would most likely be the case. Still, although a native kernel would make accessing the Windows API easier for .NET developers, I don't think many C++ programmers like this idea. Having applications under such strict security like that which a managed programming environment provides can help eliminate viruses, as most are written in C or C++, not C#, but really can mess up people who have been programming for years. The whole thing would probably mess up DBP and FPSC, too.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 06:26
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Quote: "Still, although a native kernel would make accessing the Windows API easier for .NET developers, I don't think many C++ programmers like this idea."


I think you meant managed kernel, but yeah, it doesn't sound all that great to me. More secure, maybe. I'm just worried about performance. I know managed code isn't much slower, but C/C++ allows for deeper optimizations than C#.

Quote: "The whole thing would probably mess up DBP and FPSC, too."


No more than C/C++ and others (such as BASIC), I imagine. It's all just x86 assembly, compared to code under a VM in C# and Java's case.

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xyzz1233
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 06:49
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Quote: "I think you meant managed kernel"

Oops. Yeah, I did.

Quote: "yeah, it doesn't sound all that great to me. More secure, maybe. I'm just worried about performance. I know managed code isn't much slower, but C/C++ allows for deeper optimizations than C#."

Well, apparently a managed kernel makes managed applications run faster...

Quote: "No more than C/C++ and others (such as BASIC), I imagine. It's all just x86 assembly, compared to code under a VM in C# and Java's case."

Yeah, but there are things that DarkBasic Pro is capable of, but probably don't mix well with managed code, like messing with unmanaged memory.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 06:56
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Quote: "Well, apparently a managed kernel makes managed applications run faster..."


I'm curious to see proof of this. I though the point was security, not performance.

Quote: "Yeah, but there are things that DarkBasic Pro is capable of, but probably don't mix well with managed code, like messing with unmanaged memory."


It would be the same as C/C++. It all goes to x86 assembly.

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xyzz1233
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 07:57 Edited at: 13th Aug 2008 07:58
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Quote: "I'm curious to see proof of this. I though the point was security, not performance."

That's what I was thinking. I don't remember where I read that, but my first thought was that all of the memory management and things going on would slow even the managed applications down more than on a native kernel.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 13th Aug 2008 09:11
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It shouldn't be as fast as native.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 14th Aug 2008 22:46
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Did some reading about this. It's faster due to special techniques of task management. Also, the core code is converted to native during installation.

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