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Geek Culture / OMG this makes me mad (Slipknot blamed for school stabbing)

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sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 13:12 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 13:20
apparently some kid in south africa got high and killed a classmate with a sword and said "satan told me to" and now a heap of people are blaming Slipknot (just read the comments on this page).
http://www.slipknot-metal.com/main.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1219266811&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
(Warning: Some coarse language in comments [some on my part, sorry)


id like to hear the opinions of other slipknot fans here on this forum


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 13:23
This sort of thing is new, people tend to blame music for things that people themselves are responsible for. Marilyn Manson got blamed for 3 girls who stabbed a nun 6 times each to get '666'.

There was the West Memphis 3 case where the only evidence a court case had for the murder of a child (that these 3 were accused of) was that they listened to Metallica, which isn't evidence - in fact, there was more to suggest that they didn't do it, but still they were sentenced to death row. (and after over 10 years they're still on death row, despite the number of protests and appeals)

There are loopy people in the world that think Metal is the spawn of the devil and poisons the minds of people and that's its an evil thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY1eCl5vBWE

(From the Heavy Metal Documentary)

Above shows a court case against heavy metal when it first came out - they invited Twisted Sister to speak, thinking they were dumb and would look stupid, Twisted Sister prepared a well thought out statement that pretty much pwnd the court.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 13:29 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 13:40
yea, ive seen that DVD, its a must see for any metal fan

but the thing that gets me is that people just wont listen and have no logic

take for example the comment of one of the people on that site i posted:

Quote: "It is an easy scapegoat. The lyrics are harsh. Nobody blames rap when somebody gets gunned down in broad daylight. Nobody blames the pop industry for girls thinking they need to weigh under 100 pounds and starve themselves to gain acceptance."


EDIT: Yet people still blame music that is the complete opposite of satanic. some people really havent changed since the times when rock music was considered the "devils music"

another metal band i listen to is Killswitch Engage, they are heavier than slipknot, but not a single one of their lyrics is negative. both slipknot and KsE help me through alot of negative periods in my life


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 13:43 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 14:01
I think rap and the pop industry are more harmful (or at least the mainstream of "I'm better than you", "look I'm super hot and you're not cool if you ain't", "I want to be rich, super duper rich". And believe it or not it's an attitude that actually rubs off) - the 'cult' of heavy metal stands for a lot of great things - just go to a metal festival and meet up with other metallers - like Wacken (which was in that documentary) and you'll find some very decent people going along to support these so called 'evil' bands.

I suppose harmless satanist bands don't help and the very sacrificial music videos, like Gorgoroth (video includes blood and some nudity, some some may wish to avert their eyes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFn26ntmSsg&NR=1

But I'd say Slipknot are boy scouts compared to some bands out there.

But not to say that all of them are decent, but it's not because of the music, it's because you're bound to get idiots in any group - at least there's far less indecent people in metal than chav or even emo/scene culture.

So I should finish off with a Goldy Looking Chain quote: Guns don't kill people, Rappers do. (Kidding of course)

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Pus In Boots
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:06
Quote: "I think rap and the pop industry are more harmful (or at least the mainstream of "I'm better than you", "look I'm super hot and you're not cool if you ain't", "I want to be rich, super duper rich"."


Exactly.


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dark coder
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:17
Quote: "I think rap and the pop industry are more harmful"


Pop? What, this is incorrect because Michael Jackson being the king of pop hasn't harmed me. Though I agree with rap, you should also include death metal, death____(insert random word here), screamo, black metal and anything that generally includes inaudible crap no one wants to hear. And yes this includes slipknot, so power to Africa!

sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:34 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 14:36
Quote: "death____(insert random word here), screamo, black metal and anything that generally includes inaudible crap no one wants to hear. And yes this includes slipknot, so power to Africa!"


Please dont turn this into a hate thread, if you dont like metal just leave this thread, your not forced to be here. im just trying to get opinions of metal fans on the subject of all the unjustified blame that modern metal gets given.

Quote: "But I'd say Slipknot are boy scouts compared to some bands out there."


i completely agree, there are a whole heap of bands out there that are much worse, (the norwegian black metal bands like cradle of filth and mayhem), now im not trying to blame them, but im saying that there are far worse bands out there than slipknot, and these people are just blaming them based upon the fact that they dont know anything else in the world of metal, slipknot may very well be the only modern metal band they know of. this is a real shame that its happening right now as their releasing their album and starting their tour (of which im going to one of the aussie shows)


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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:38
Quote: "Slipknot blamed for school stabbing"


LOL

dark coder
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:43
Quote: "if you dont like metal just leave this thread, your not forced to be here. im just trying to get opinions of metal fans on the subject of all the unjustified blame that modern metal gets given."


Since when did I say I hated metal? In fact, other than '80s music, Symphonic Metal(which is quite modern) is my favourite music genre. Plus I didn't just randomly post here, I added to Seppuku's comments, so what's the problem? Differing opinions aren't allowed on this forum any more?

Mnemonix
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:46
NO. I DO NOT THINK THAT DIFFERING OPINIONS ARE PERMITTED.

I think it is silly the way people find things in the media to blame for somebodies own actions. If everybody who listened to slipknot went out and killed somebody then I think the argument would have some merit.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 14:58
People should start taking responsibilities again and stop blaming external factors. If they stabbed someone, they did, not a music band.


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sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 15:02
sorry, i misunderstood your post, it seemed as though you were insulting metal,

Quote: "so power to Africa!"


but why did you have to add that comment?


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Grandma
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 15:46
Quote: "there are a whole heap of bands out there that are much worse, (the norwegian black metal bands like cradle of filth and mayhem)"

Hey now, I must completely disagree with cradle of filth being "bad"....or Norwegian. Mayhem perhaps, but they deserve some respect too since they were amongst those who started the black metal movement here.

I don't worry too much about cases like this. These stories are obviously just satire or something. Noone actually believes it, right? That not bullies or people already mentally un-stable are to blame, but the music they listen to? Come on. You get trolled so easily.

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sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 15:59
i know, its my frame of mind the music doesnt make you kill people, but im afraid that there are plenty of other people (judging by the comments) who think otherwise


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dark coder
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 16:04
Quote: "but why did you have to add that comment?"


Because it's good when bad things happen to things you don't like?

I just listed to 3 Slipknot songs on youtube and it's not as bad as I had imagined, i.e. the lyrics are for the most part audible, so I wouldn't consider it anywhere near as bad as death/doom/black metal(is there even a difference between them?), though it's not something I'd listen to.

Besides this kind of stuff happens all the time with games so I wouldn't care.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 16:08
Some people are born outright unmoralistic nutters. What does music have to do with who people are? I listen to Deep Purple. I don't Smoke on The Water, or blow up in a Fireball. Nutters are nutters.

Deathead
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 16:40
@Nex: Its a way to get themselves either a shorter jail sentence. They done it with Rockstar Games. Where some kids smashed up a alot of cars, and blamed GTA 4. Then rockstar got blamed afterwards, making the kids the victims so they get a shorter sentence.


Sid Sinister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 17:38
While I do think music, games, ect. have an effect on people, blaming an act of violence because of it is stupid. Maybe the music helped build up hatred, but it certainly didn't swing the sword or shoot the bullet. It's called blameshifting, and when ever someone is getting repremanded, they try it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 17:43 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 17:49
Quote: "Quote: "I think rap and the pop industry are more harmful"

Pop? What, this is incorrect because Michael Jackson being the king of pop hasn't harmed me. Though I agree with rap, you should also include death metal, death____(insert random word here), screamo, black metal and anything that generally includes inaudible crap no one wants to hear. And yes this includes slipknot, so power to Africa!"


'Pop' may be the wrong word, but some of the popular music that promotes being slim as stick, being selfish, getting rich (or die trying), having a girlfriend with the biggest melons. The stuff that's like rap, but isn't rap, like R&B I suppose.


But I don't think the lyrics of black/death metal have much of an impact and not because some of them are inaudiable (people managed to sing along just fine) but I'll bring up the lyrics of 'The Serpentine Offering' by Norwegian Melodic Black Metal band, Dimmu Borgir (video below) - a song that is audiable:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAmMcBQavKE



Very satanic - would pretty much make a Christian churn, but are the lyrics actually all that bad? Do they encourage anything 'evil' (from a non-christian perspective) It treats the snake as the source for knowledge and Christianity as a veil of ignorance over centuries and it is 'their' time to rise and take us from 'deceit' and into the ways of nature. Yes it promotes Satanism, but Grandma will probably be the first to talk about how misunderstood the values of Satanism are. I don't agree with it of course, I'm not a satanist, but all I see in those lyrics is just a religious argument from the School of Satanism.

But saying that it'd tremble too close to religious discussion, but all I see Satanism as is Christianity turned on its head - Christians follow the will of God, Satanists the ways of Nature, Christians saw satan as evil, these lyrics percieve Christianity to be evil and have a hatred towards it. Whether or not you agree with the idea, but you can see these lyrics really aren't that bad nor to they promote anything cruel or 'evil'. Though admittedly some lyrics can be brutal when describing gore and talking about it, but you know, we have gory games and movies, so it's only fair that we have gory music as well.

I think it's really only 'satanistic' aspects that tend to get people (especially fundemental christian groups) to blame these bands for murder. But it's no different to the complaints South Park or video games get. Of course blaming Slipknot comes as a surprise to me, because there's nothing really that bad about them.

Alternatively (which no doubt you'd agree are bad lyrics):

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
And they're like
"it's better than yours"
damn right
it's better than you yours
I can teach you
but I have to charge...

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 17:46
Quote: "While I do think music, games, ect. have an effect on people, blaming an act of violence because of it is stupid. Maybe the music helped build up hatred, but it certainly didn't swing the sword or shoot the bullet. It's called blameshifting, and when ever someone is getting repremanded, they try it."

I completely agree with this.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 17:53
Quote: "Quote: "While I do think music, games, ect. have an effect on people, blaming an act of violence because of it is stupid. Maybe the music helped build up hatred, but it certainly didn't swing the sword or shoot the bullet. It's called blameshifting, and when ever someone is getting repremanded, they try it."
I completely agree with this."


Yes - take somebody out and they'll blame whatever seems appropriate to blame, "Slipknot sounds hateful, I did something hateful and I listen to Slipknot - well Slipknot gave me a fuel of energy...hmm...it's Slipknots fault, yes I'm just a victim of loud music."

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
flickenmaste
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 18:19
If the person said that skipknot had in a song say stab some one..which they probably do..and the kid was high listing to that song...well then ya..i wouldnt sue em or nuthing...just say clean ur music up


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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 18:23
Quote: "If the person said that skipknot had in a song say stab some one..which they probably do..and the kid was high listing to that song...well then ya..i wouldnt sue em or nuthing...just say clean ur music up"


Clean ur music up? Wtf. You can't blame some random third party cuz YOU GOT HIGH.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 18:37
Quote: "If the person said that skipknot had in a song say stab some one..which they probably do."


What suggests that they probably do? And why are the vast majority of metalheads mellow are certainly not murderers. And as far as I can see "there's nothing to clean up", I think you're making judgmenets based on a stereotype that's based off of the 'brutal' sound of the music and not the lyrics themselves.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 18:57
Although I don't like metal due to it's inaudibility and the fact my ears hurt whenever I hear it, I must ssay it's unfair to blame a band for making a song, then a kid listening to that song and stabbing someone.......

If Slipknot were really brainwashng people into mindless, satanic killers, why is it only this kid who goes and stabs someone....

It's the same with people blaming games like GTA for making kids violent. But a kid must already be violent to enjoy playing violent video games enoough to try it out in real life.......

I remember every chav in our area got San Andreas, and our area was the quietest it had been for years. Of course that all ended about 2 weeks later when they got bored of using cheats to slaughters hordes of NPCs and police helicopters, and trespassing onto the 3rd island.......

Good times, good times.....

Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 19:56
This sort of thing will always be around. People thought The Beatles were satanic (helped along by Lennon saying they were "more popular than Jesus"). People thought Led Zeppelin's Stairway To Heaven played in reverse would reveal a hidden satanic message. They actually mentioned Iron Maiden's Eddy in a congressional hearing. People love blaming media for everything bad that happens, and I doubt that will ever change. As I've always said before, I blame the parents for this. I played Doom when I was 13, listened to 80's hair metal that my brother liked in an effort to be more like him, and I saw Die Hard, Predator, Terminator, and similar movies, in the movie theater when I was a *very* young child. Never murdered anyone. That's because my parents took the time to show me the difference between right and wrong, and teach me the true value of life. No religion, no seminars, no therapy, no prescription drugs, just excellent parents who paid attention to me, taught me things, and never made me feel alienated. Proper, good parents. Most people have good parents as well. This kid obviously didn't .

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:03
Definitely Matt - I've had a similar upbringing to you - though I was subject more to Stephen King than anything and I'm sure people would normally get worried when a kid says "cool" when they watch a man shove an axe in their own face.

Though, the real reason I've never axe murdered anyone is that I've never owned an axe.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:05 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 20:10
I basically agree with Matt on this one. I blame crap parents for their crap kids. Kids don't get enough parenting when it matters most. Parents throw the kids down in front of the TV to watch educational programming while eating snacks and crap food all day while mom and dad do things around the house or go to work. Kid starts school and the parents are even more free. They expect the teachers to raise the kids at that point.

Nope, not enough parent involvement in most kids' lives anymore.

I was raised much like Matt, got to play most video games and watch most movies I wanted to (behind the parents back or otherwise). But I always knew the difference between right and wrong because my parents would explain things to me and make sure I understood that what I was seeing is NOT alright in real life. They're just actors and all that crap.

I turned out great even though I've been playing some of the most violent games, watching some pretty bad movies, and listening to some heavy hardcore music. Even with all that I still feel remorse for killing insects outside by accident. I felt horrible when I accidentally ran over a toad with the lawn mower. If anything seeing all the violence has made me a better person. I don't ever want to cause anything unnecessary pain.

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:09 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 20:11
Seems like people constantly want to blame things other than themselves and those around them for anything that goes wrong. You have McDonalds for being fat, video games for promoting violence, music for promoting violence, peers for promoting drugs(while this part is true, honestly, it is down to the individual to decide whether or not to use, I have plenty of friends who think I should try some things, yet I don't, and I know other people who hang out with the same type of crowd, yet don't do any of the stuff, it's really not that hard, but anyway, that's a different discussion), etc etc. People just don't want to own up to the fact that they are the main cause of their problems and if they want them to be fixed they have to make changes and accept blame. If everything we did was a product of external influences, we'd be far worse off by now than we are. Being a Juggalo, I hear about a lot of cases where some idiot decided to take the Juggalo name through the dirt, and, for example, knock over a bunch of gravestones and tag Juggalo all over. There have also been violent acts which lyrics by ICP and related bands were blamed. Yet if you step back and look at most Juggalos, we're regular people who happen to enjoy music that a lot of people are turned off by. It all comes back to people not wanted to accept blame, and at the same time, requiring a specific explanation as to why something happened. It wasn't the music, it wasn't the games, it wasn't their friends, while all of the above may have had influences on them, it was ultimately their choice to commit whatever act that they committed. Responsibility is in the individual who acted, bottom line.

[edit-a few comments behind]

Quote: "That's because my parents took the time to show me the difference between right and wrong, and teach me the true value of life. No religion, no seminars, no therapy, no prescription drugs, just excellent parents who paid attention to me, taught me things, and never made me feel alienated. Proper, good parents. Most people have good parents as well. This kid obviously didn't ."


Entirely agreed. I can say the same.


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WildCat
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:14
Quote: "Pop? What, this is incorrect because Michael Jackson being the king of pop hasn't harmed me. Though I agree with rap, you should also include death metal, death____(insert random word here), screamo, black metal and anything that generally includes inaudible crap no one wants to hear. And yes this includes slipknot, so power to Africa!"


I agree

Quote: "Alternatively (which no doubt you'd agree are bad lyrics):"


One song by slipknot talks about slitting your throat and sticking you know what in your wound.

To me you sound like a bunch of crazy idiot raper-murderers that need to be stuck in a crazy house.

Insanity Complex
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:18
Quote: "To me you sound like a bunch of crazy idiot raper-murderers that need to be stuck in a crazy house."


and yet here I am, having never killed anyone, or raped anyone, for over 10 years of listening to "violent" music and playing violent games. Somehow, while sounding like a "crazy idiot raper-murderer", I manage to be highly morally opposed to murder, and far more opposed to rape. Your comment is an example of blatant ignorance based upon the lyrics of somebodies musical preference. It's just ridiculous.


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WildCat
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:27
Quote: "and yet here I am, having never killed anyone, or raped anyone, for over 10 years of listening to "violent" music and playing violent games. Somehow, while sounding like a "crazy idiot raper-murderer", I manage to be highly morally opposed to murder, and far more opposed to rape. Your comment is an example of blatant ignorance based upon the lyrics of somebodies musical preference. It's just ridiculous."


Seems like your a lucky one. Just read below this:

Quote: "
apparently some kid in south africa got high and killed a classmate with a sword and said "satan told me to""


Insanity Complex
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 20:29
So, being that one kid out of the how many million who listen to music like this, killed people, the larger portion of those who DIDN'T do anything like that are lucky?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 01:42
Quote: "Quote: "Alternatively (which no doubt you'd agree are bad lyrics):"

One song by slipknot talks about slitting your throat and sticking you know what in your wound.

To me you sound like a bunch of crazy idiot raper-murderers that need to be stuck in a crazy house."


Have a look around, how many metallers are crazy idiot raper-murderers? Not many, give a percentage, then compare to the percentage of people in society? Then compare to how many are 'influenced' by violent video games and those 'influenced' by violent movies.

I've never met a metallers who's interested in violence, suicide or anything sickening and I'm one of these people that goes to a metal festival every year that have 10,000 to 70,000 people attend - then one I'm going to next year is aiming to hit the 100,000 mark. They're all mad and a bloody good laugh - even the satanists, they're harmless individuals who love their music for what it's worth. And you'll find metallers will have a lot in common, especially in values (as some metal music actually can include decent values, a Hatebreed song talks about how he tries to help his fellow man but sometimes he can't even help himself.)

The lyric example of R&B music I've put up holds materialistic, "I'm better than you values", which I've experienced as being the sort of attitude the listeners of the genre have - if their music talks about shooting people I don't expect somebody to shoot someone, because I doubt they will, but if their heroes and idols have a: "get me some babes, lets get rich, I'm tough and I'm better than you" attitude, it rubs off. Busting caps in a**es doesn't. (So that's where my beef with R&B and Rap lies)

Quote: "Seems like your a lucky one. Just read below this:

Quote: "
apparently some kid in south africa got high and killed a classmate with a sword and said "satan told me to"""


Guess what, 'satan told me to' is just an excuse - anybody who commits a crime and gets caught will most likely shift the blame away from themselves, create a reason for their killing and lack of moral fiber, satanism and heavy metal is an easy way out and it has been since it first came to be. Satanism doesn't even promote murder (though it has been 5 years since I've read the Satanic bible, but I remember it not being as bad as people make it out to be; though I'm not a Satanist because I don't believe in that stuff)

Seeing as you've got a Dark Knight avatar and sig, does Batman influence vigilante justice?

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Peter H
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 06:01
Quote: "does Batman influence vigilante justice?"

doesn't every super hero?

including goody-two-shoes superman?

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WildCat
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 06:03
yes but he doesn't kill them.

sp3ng
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 09:01
Quote: "One song by slipknot talks about slitting your throat and sticking you know what in your wound."


one of my friends said the same thing this morning when i was talking about this story and how slipknot has a positive message

when you take one line like that out of a song, sure its going to sound evil and twisted, but (as with all music) you need to look at the whole song in context, many of slipknots songs are actually really good in their message. some ones from the new album have really good messages as well

here is a list of song meanings for each slipknot song:
http://www.slipknot-metal.com/main.php?sk=songmeaning

but remember, different people can interpret lyrics in different ways, some of these meanings are quotes from slipknots singer, but others are from the site administrator, so you may beg to differ on these ones.

also Dark Coder, if you want audible lyrics, look at songs like "Snuff", "Child Of Burning Time", "Vermillion" (Part 1 and 2) etc.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 12:33
To quote from twisted sister (paraphrased):


"If you look for sadomasochism, you'll find it because lyrics are meant to be there for people to place their own interpretations"

Quote: "yes but he doesn't kill them."


But as we've discussed through the thread, there's an argument suggesting that the lyrics of metal aren't an influence of murder - or at least it only influences a small percentage of listeners, who are likely to be amoral. If metal influenced people to kill, then a lot of the metallers on the forum would have done it by now, if Saw influence masochism, a lot of viewers would have done it by now, if GTA influence random killings and stealing cars, a lot of its players would have done it by now, it superheroes held influence to vigilante justice, then most of us would be doing it now.

It's just there's select individuals who don't have the upbringing to understand what's right and what's wrong and find reasons or excuses in anything they idolise and they and their upbringing are solely responsible. The statement 'Slipknot influences people to kill' is false and it was Slipknot to blame in this instance - the kid was obviously screwed up.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 12:49
@sp3ng

You use commas but not capital letters and fullstops, I'm blaming you for future happenings.



Not all parents are to blame for psycho children/adolescents/adults. Some people just grow up bad no matter what they are told.

Games do not in anyway influence sane people to go out and kill, nor does music. Insane people, well that's a whole different thing, watching whiny the pooh would set them off :\

Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 13:55
This is a perfect example of an incredibly dark and violent sounding song with an extremely positive meaning behind it.

http://www.imeem.com/whatamk/music/KKEUSM9v/project_86_sincerely_ichabod/ <- Song

http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=3530822107858558079 <-Lyrics

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

General Reed
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 13:58
Makes me mad too, its just typical political crap, leverage to make the people feel scared, and maintain control over them.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 15:18
Quote: "Not all parents are to blame for psycho children/adolescents/adults. Some people just grow up bad no matter what they are told.

Games do not in anyway influence sane people to go out and kill, nor does music. Insane people, well that's a whole different thing, watching whiny the pooh would set them off :\"


No you're right, it's just not the parents and some people are generally insane or have other factors to their upbringing or experiences that cause them to actually immorally.

I don't think the actions of violent people or psychos should be blamed on the causes and not some scapegoat like metal, games, film or any other kind of media. But they are and people are fools when they start saying they're the reason why people kill. Society needs kids to have good upbringings and for them to be looked after - not to remove anything that so much as suggests anything away from the norm from society.

What was before metal? Rock and roll, before that? Blues? All the devil's work and corrupts the minds of people to do evil, right?

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
sp3ng
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 15:27
its what happens when a minority doesnt like a new trend, they bash it. it happens all the time with every major invetion from film to musical genres


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Accoun
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 16:12
Another metal song that shows that wetal is far "safer". Annihilator - Clown Parade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVl1gH4l4tM



Make games, not war.
Deathead
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 16:56
Quote: "What was before metal? Rock and roll, before that? Blues? All the devil's work and corrupts the minds of people to do evil, right?"

I listened to "blue suede shoes" yesterday, and I all of a sudden wanted to go out and buy some blue suede shoes.haha

But really its like all alibies, they don't want to get into prison so what to do? Blame it on someone else. But I noticed that no one ever said to the police once that Barney the Purple dinosaur told them to kill. Its also like some french guys excuse after he murdered someone. He said a dog told him to kill a person at random.


Accoun
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 17:21
Quote: "But really its like all alibies, they don't want to get into prison so what to do? Blame it on someone else. But I noticed that no one ever said to the police once that Barney the Purple dinosaur told them to kill. Its also like some french guys excuse after he murdered someone. He said a dog told him to kill a person at random."

Yeah, music and video games can't defend themself, so they're often used as alibis. It's never like "He killed because he was listening to the music from Roadrunner!" or "... played games from Ubisoft" cause they have enough money to sue them for insulting them. Bands and developers can only say "Sorry, we didn't wanted this to happen." or "Sorry, but it's not our fault. There are many kids who play it and haven't killed anybody", but it's always like "Don't believe him, he said it only because he made the game!".



Make games, not war.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 17:31
To be fair, dogs are dangerous pets, you really should own them...a cat would never tell you to kill someone...or would it?

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
WildCat
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 17:56
Okay what about mosh pits, you don't think anyone has ever gotten killed in them.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 19:38 Edited at: 25th Aug 2008 19:39
You don't have to mosh to enjoy the music and not everybody does. But chances are, yes, somebody may have died in one, but what has that got to do with anything? Accidents happen, tell me has anybody died playing American Football or Rugby, going swimming, driving a car, flying an Aeroplane, walking down the stairs, going skateboarding, eating at a restaurant or riding a rollercoaster?

People fall down in mosh pits, you can get hurt, people know that - I've been elbowed a few times in the face, head butted in the chest - yet I carry on, but when anybody falls people pick them up and that person carries on - people look after each other in a mosh pit - last weekend I was at a metal festival and one of the bands I saw was 'Ted Maul', one of the violent sounding ones if you want it to be put that, I was right next to the mosh pit, every time somebody fell down, people avoided stepping on them and picked them up again and continued. Sometimes bands will say "When somebody is down help them back up again" and encourage people to take care of each other. But accidents can happen anywhere. (I've never heard of a case where somebody has died in a mosh pit, but it's possibile that they have)

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
Mnemonix
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 20:14
I broke my ankle in a moshpit at stone sour last year


THIS IS METALS FAULT!




TheSturgeon(playing me at chess) : I will use my powers of the horse and pwnzor you.

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