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Geek Culture / Leadwerks Engine evaluation kit now available

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 18:02 Edited at: 17th Mar 2009 07:06
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Download:
http://www.leadwerks.com/ccount/click.php?id=64

Minimum Specs:
A graphics card with support for OpenGL 2.1 and Shader Model 3.0 is required (NVidia GEForce 6800, ATI Radeon X1500). An NVidia GEForce 8800 is recommended.

Please note that AMD Drivers 8.8 suffer from a critical bug which will cause inverted images and other graphical anomalies. A full report has been made to AMD, and they are working to resolve the problem. See this thread for more information:
http://forum.leadwerks.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:02
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Awesome, well I'm downloading now.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:25
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Nice, but I have an X1300...soo......

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:28 Edited at: 11th Sep 2008 22:28
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This engine is Incredible!
Sir you have certainly earned yourself a future purchase from yours truly!

I eagerly await future updates! (Perhaps dynamic ambient occlusion)

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:35 Edited at: 11th Sep 2008 22:36
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We already have dynamic ambient occlusion, but it isn't showcased in the examples.

Actually, if you do a google image search for "screen space ambient occlusion" an image from Leadwerks Engine is the first result.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:39
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Excellent stuff!

I shall definitely purchase this in the near future.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 22:50
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I'll consider once I get a better PC and £75 to burn......

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 23:07 Edited at: 11th Sep 2008 23:08
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Hang about?


This is running with an ATi x1650 pro. I put the shadows on High, Volumetric light scattering and Motion Blur.

Also the island demo doesn't run.


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Leadwerks
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 23:08
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See the original post please.
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 11th Sep 2008 23:15 Edited at: 11th Sep 2008 23:33
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I'll have a look see. I had issues with the new Dark Physics Fluids on this card also, must be a common thing.

Initially when you wrote AMD, I assumed you were talking about processors.

[EDIT] Updated my drivers, still have the same issue.
Not to worry, I was planning on getting the new Nvidia 280 soon anyway.[/EDIT]

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Deathead
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 00:30
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Mine just loads then closes haha. I tried it on the lowest of settings still nothing. Also the model viewer doesn't load up nor does the Sandbox.

The Demos both close down..
The Model Viewer flashes then closes.
The Sandbox editor loads up, then becomes unresponsive. It could be my rubbish graphics card which is...
A Geforce 7500.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 00:37
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I use a GEForce 7300 for testing. If you have current drivers it will run on your card, albeit poorly.
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Deathead
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 00:45
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Well, mine just closes and does nothing else. Do I have to run it on Admin?(Vista User)


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 00:51
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No, but it might not hurt. When was the last time you updated drivers?
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Deathead
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 00:54
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Will do. I'll give you any more info if I encounter anymore problems.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
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AndrewT
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 02:56
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Worked fine for me, definitely very cool, the terrain editing in the sandbox is smooth, the object placement is simple, and the demos run great on an 8800GTS with a 3.0Ghz C2D.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 03:32
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What is included in the package? The site didn't really say. Is it a time-limited package, or simply limited in features? I don't want to download it if it's time-based and I don't have much time.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 14:52 Edited at: 12th Sep 2008 14:52
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Runs nicely - FPS isn't perfect 20-30 average for decent/half decent setting. My card is a GeForce 9500M GS, and it looks great.

Once I fill my bank with more cash again I'll get myself a copy (I had trouble purchasing last time, (On TGC and Leadwerks) I think it had something to do with my account, though it works fine with orders from Amazon - so I'll probably need to set up a Web specific bank account or just send TGC a cheque)

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 16:39 Edited at: 12th Sep 2008 16:44
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I made a mistake due to something with sound I added right at the last minute...I will have version 2.1.1 out soon, along with a patch for the demo and a new installer. Sorry about that! :oops:

Other than this sound error I brilliantly introduced right before release, everything seems pretty good.

I am not sure how fast the 9500 is but with default settings my 8800 gets 60 FPS. Bear in mind the island scene is rendering 700,000-1.7 million polys each frame.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 18:03
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Yeah, I missed the sound. It lacked the total immersion effect I was expecting.

But, that was very nice. It ran at 30 fps on my laptop with my Nvidia 8700. The lighting was absolutely brilliant. I turned the settings almost all the way up too, I just kept the shadow quality at medium.

I'm very interested in this. After I release Geisha House I'm going to take a serious look at your engine.


Come see the WIP!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Sep 2008 18:26 Edited at: 12th Sep 2008 18:28
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Quote: "I am not sure how fast the 9500 is but with default settings my 8800 gets 60 FPS. Bear in mind the island scene is rendering 700,000-1.7 million polys each frame."


Personally I think it's a good FPS for a mid-range laptop graphics card with the detail - anything I test still feels speedy and of course I can have a setting with fewer shaders or lower quality shadows to boost the performance. Considering the DBP benchmark program one of the forum members created I get 15fps at 500,000 polygons, 700,000-1.7mil polygons (on just the terrain) at 20 FPS with medium-high settings is good. (Or 30 in the underground demo)

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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trogdor
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Posted: 13th Sep 2008 18:16
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took forever to download, but looks great.

island demo on my nvidia 7800GS the clouds are stamped last, so I'll be walking through the foliage and theres a cloud hovering in the middle of the screen.



it would be awesome if there was under water distortion, or a blur. Something similar to the unity3d island demo.
http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise

seen how you have physics, are there plans for some AI, and multiplayer?

If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 13th Sep 2008 19:10
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Thanks, I will take another look with my GEForce 7300.

Are you using NVidia's latest drivers?
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trogdor
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Posted: 13th Sep 2008 21:12 Edited at: 13th Sep 2008 21:16
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I downloaded the drivers today 175.19_geforce_winxp_32bit_english_whql.exe



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Leadwerks
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Posted: 14th Sep 2008 03:30 Edited at: 14th Sep 2008 03:30
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Thanks. I think the problem is related to depth blitting.

Could you please replace the Example.exe program in your SDK folder with this and try it?:
http://www.leadwerks.com/post/Example2.11.zip
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 14th Sep 2008 20:25
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I guess I wasn't supposed to try 2.11, but I thought it might fix the sound. Now the example doesn't work at all, whereas before it worked great.


Come see the WIP!
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 14th Sep 2008 21:20
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total n00b question:
How do I find what kind of graphics card/drivers I have? I feel like I should know this, but I just can't remember.
I want to try this out, but I don't want to download it if its not going to work.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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trogdor
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Posted: 14th Sep 2008 21:47
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Sorry, but 2.11 does not work for me.

If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 15th Sep 2008 02:09
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There are a few bug I introduced at the last minute. I am getting it fixed up, but I want to make sure it is working before I post a new patch.
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 15th Sep 2008 21:37 Edited at: 15th Sep 2008 21:37
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If you have any problems, please give this a try and let me know the results:
http://www.leadwerks.com/post/Example2.12a.zip

Thanks.
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Terrorist Zero
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Posted: 16th Sep 2008 02:34
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That example program isn't working for me, it will start loading the content (blank screen) then close, whilst taking longer to close than it did before to start moving around the demo(s).

Original version: The shadows and other scenery moves based on the position and angle of the camera for some wierd reason, and in the underground demo, the camera is upside down?! The MouseY axis is reversed yet the MouseX axis isn't. Quite wierd. And there's usually jagged lines in diagonal strips across the screen too.

ATI Catalyst Drivers 8.7 (downgraded to be able to play City Of Heroes which wouldn't work under 8.8 either), so I'm hoping that the bugs are just a simple driver upgrade away from a fix.

Specs are in sig.

From what i've been able to deduce from the demo's though, the graphical capabilites of the engine are top notch and I really congratulate you on the work you've produced. Once new drivers come out I shall play about with it and might give it a purchase!


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trogdor
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Posted: 16th Sep 2008 03:01
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Example2.12a does not work.
I get blank screen and the app stops responding.

If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 16th Sep 2008 08:49 Edited at: 16th Sep 2008 08:50
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Terrorist Zero, your card will not work right now because the drivers have a bug. I got an email from AMD this morning saying they would have it fixed for Catalyst 8-10 in October.

trogdor, I bet you are using Windows Vista and don't have OpenAL installed. I found out you actually have to install OpenAL on Vista, you can't just include the DLL like I did. In the future, I will just include the OpenAL installer along with the SDK, to make it simpler:
http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Downloads/oalinst.zip
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Terrorist Zero
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Posted: 16th Sep 2008 13:40 Edited at: 16th Sep 2008 13:46
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Yeah figured that the drivers would be the cause, which is why I tried the SDK under the 8.7 drivers rather than the 8.8 "bugged" drivers. Still, can't wait for the October driver release!

On a further note, that OpenAL install fixed the bug, and to be honest, that underground tech demo has got so much atmosphere to it that I feel unsafe
(and that's with all the graphical bugs in it)

Nice Job!


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 16th Sep 2008 17:51
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I am n00b at graphics cards, drivers, and such, can anyone tell me how to find what kind of graphics card/drivers I have? I want to try this, but I'm not going to bother if its not going to work.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Terrorist Zero
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run > "dxdiag"

the display tab should give you all the information you need


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Omega gamer 89
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thank you.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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trogdor
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Posted: 17th Sep 2008 03:43 Edited at: 17th Sep 2008 03:43
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@Leadwerks
I'm on XP, but the OpenAL is what I needed to run 2.12a.
The clouds looks good now.
Thanks for the quick fix.

I noticed the tip of gun goes through walls in the underground mission. Is this because the collision is on the player and not on the carried items?

If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime.
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Leadwerks
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Posted: 17th Sep 2008 03:52
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Yeah. Because the lighting is realistic, I can't just render the gun on top of everything. The best way to handle this would be to make the gun tilt up when you are near a wall, the way Crysis did. But it's a small detail the end user could implement, so I didn't bother with it.

Thanks for helping me fix it!
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Mahoney
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I just messed with the Sandbox editor and the example program, and I must say, this is absolutely amazing. It's on par with the Crytek editor I tried out (and much faster ). Congratulations, mate.

Also, how does the eval work? Is this going to quit working after a certain number of days, or does it not allow saving scenes?

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 17th Sep 2008 06:02 Edited at: 17th Sep 2008 06:05
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You can save your work, but the tools will stop working after 30 days, and you won't actually be able to program with the engine until you get the full SDK. The SDK also includes more tools you haven't seen yet. Your account also allows you to download files for the video tutorials and other stuff I upload.

Thanks for the compliments. Once I am sure everything is stable, I want to forge ahead with more new technology.
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Mahoney
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Darn. I hoped I could mess with it longer.

You deserve it. You have done an amazing job with this. I hope you sell many many copies.

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 17th Sep 2008 19:39 Edited at: 17th Sep 2008 19:39
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The downloads page is updated to the version 2.12 evaluation kit, which fixes a number of issues we found with widespread testing:
http://leadwerks.thegamecreators.com/downloads.php
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AndrewT
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Posted: 19th Sep 2008 02:22 Edited at: 19th Sep 2008 02:23
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Quote: "It's on par with the Crytek editor I tried out (and much faster )"


The Sandbox Editor is fantastic, but I don't know if I'd say it's better than Crysis'. Did you actually learn how to use it??

Anyways, nice job on all of this! Very easy to use, straight forward, and the demos run great.

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Mahoney
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Quote: "The Sandbox Editor is fantastic, but I don't know if I'd say it's better than Crysis'. Did you actually learn how to use it??"


There are more features in the Crytek editor (I didn't even go through all of them; just the major ones). But, his is 1) faster (good for me, as I'm not rich) and 2) is a much larger accomplishment for what I believe is the work of one man in comparison to a team of professionals. Anything that is almost entirely the work of one man and can compete with one of the best graphics engines in existence is an amazing feat.

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AndrewT
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Quote: "There are more features in the Crytek editor (I didn't even go through all of them; just the major ones). But, his is 1) faster (good for me, as I'm not rich) and 2) is a much larger accomplishment for what I believe is the work of one man in comparison to a team of professionals. Anything that is almost entirely the work of one man and can compete with one of the best graphics engines in existence is an amazing feat."


Ya, you're right about that. I'm still amazed that things such as DBP and Leadwerks can be made by such small teams.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
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Airslide
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I plan on purchasing soon

One question - how difficult is it to import new media? Let's say I have a crate in .X format. What format would I need to convert it to, and from there, what steps are involved adding it to the engine as a basic physics body like the barrel in the demo?

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Leadwerks
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The engine loads .obj files directly, and I tested the loader with obj files exported from lots of different programs. A GMF exporter is also supplied for Unwrap3D. I am looking to add support for either Collada or FBX files next.
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Airslide
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Sounds pretty cool! Is it possible to import the .obj file and convert it out to a GMF?

So what's involved with adding it as an entity in the engine? Is it easy to take a GMF, create a physics body for it, and then place it into the game?

Also, outstanding work on the engine! The character controller felt smooth and natural, and from the looks of it it should be much easier to get a basic FPS working out with the sort of features you've come to expect with this engine as opposed to Torque (which I hate, lol).

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 20th Sep 2008 04:45 Edited at: 20th Sep 2008 04:47
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The engine doesn't save GMF files, yet. Unwrap3D can load any 3D file format that matters.

This lesson talks about meshes, physics, and how they work together:

Article:
http://www.leadwerks.com/files/Tutorials/CPP/Introduction_To_Models.pdf

Video:
http://www.leadwerks.com/files/Tutorials/CPP/Introduction_To_Models.wmv

And here's one on the character controllers:

Article:
http://www.leadwerks.com/files/Tutorials/CPP/Character_Controllers.pdf

Video:
http://www.leadwerks.com/files/Tutorials/CPP/Character_Controllers.wmv
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