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Geek Culture / Space is infinite : Space is expanding... ???

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zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 19th Oct 2008 17:45
Well I have Googled this, and watched some video clips and read some info and yet I still can't grasp or understand this. So if someone can please help me get my head around this.

1) Space is infinite. (Conceptually I have no problem with this.)

2) Space is expanding. (Now this is what I have a hard time understanding. If space is infinite, how can it be expanding or getting bigger)

"When I look at that square... I wish FPSC noobs would stay on their side of the forums and stop polluting these boards." - Benjamin
bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Oct 2008 17:57 Edited at: 19th Oct 2008 18:00
Great question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHY6M6k0TQU

Sagan's Cosmos is really amazing, you should buy it/rent it/steal it and watch it!


It's not just for BYOND you know!
Kohaku
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Posted: 19th Oct 2008 18:19
Ooh, that's an awesome show.


You are not alone.
zenassem
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Posted: 19th Oct 2008 18:23
My firewall at work won't allow streaming media/You Tube, so I'll have something interesting to watch when I get home. Never heard of Sagan's Cosmos, but I'll see if I can get it.

thanx
~zen

"When I look at that square... I wish FPSC noobs would stay on their side of the forums and stop polluting these boards." - Benjamin
bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Oct 2008 18:41 Edited at: 19th Oct 2008 18:42
Aye, Carl Sagan's Cosmos is amazing

Anyway, since you're at work. It works like this.

Think of a 2 dimensional creature, doesn't know about the third dimension. He just walks around in his 2d world. So, what he doesn't realize is his worlds curved like a balloon. So if he starts walking, he'll be walking in what he thinks is an infinite flat surface, but he ends up arriving at where he started!

Now, add a third dimension, and this is what some scientists believe we live in. Additionally, since this balloon is expanding, it looks like all the universes are speeding away. This is because, if you take a balloon and tape some pictures of galaxies on there. Then blow it up, those two galaxies would see they're moving away from each other.

To a flatlander 2d person from one galaxy, it would appear as if the other galaxy is moving away. To a flatlander in the other galaxy, he'd see the same thing!

So one of them might think they're at the center of a universe that's accelerating away from them, but in reality, they aren't. (at the center)

Further more, Sagan goes on to say that the curve (if it does exist) is likely caused by gravitation, and if there's not enough matter, than it would be saddle shaped, with the universe above this saddle infinite.

He goes on to explain later (at the end of the video in some post-info after the credits), that science has discovered that the galaxies appear to be bubbling out of a center. Like if you were to blow bubbles in milk. They found this out because they mapped all known galaxies, and found that, when playing connect the dots, they almost look like they form bubbles out of some center.

Which is pretty fascinating if you consider that our universe may be saddle shaped.


It's not just for BYOND you know!
zenassem
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Posted: 19th Oct 2008 19:07 Edited at: 19th Oct 2008 19:07
I am starting to get it (or at least appreciate it) , that explanation allows me to have somewhat of a visual.

And I came across this, which ties into everything you said.

(From a yahoo answers forum)
It's expanding into the 4th dimension. To a 4-dimensional being, the edge of our Universe would probably look like surface of an expanding bubble.

We can't perceive the 4th dimension, or even comprehend it, so to us space seems infinite and without an edge. The expansion of space, in our perspective, is simply the increase in distances between galaxies.

The best way to picture it is to imagine that we're 2-dimensional beings living on the surface of an expanding balloon. To us, the balloon surface would be all there is, there'd be no "up" or "down". We could travel in any direction along the surface, and it would seem infinite, because there's no edge. If you drew two points on the surface with a marker pen, you'd see the two points moving away from each other, suggesting that the surface is expanding.

That's how we see our world, except it's in 3D.

"When I look at that square... I wish FPSC noobs would stay on their side of the forums and stop polluting these boards." - Benjamin
Monk
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Location: Standing in the snow =D
Posted: 4th Feb 2009 12:57
Yeah, and because its expanding faster than the speed of light (i dont know how) we'll never see, let alone reach, the end of it.

The true question is, what is it expanding into??

BatVink
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 14:09
None of this is important, you only need to know one thing...

That black and white interference on a TV that's not tuned in - 4% of it is caused by the the creation of the Universe, these after-effects are just reaching us now.

See, nothing else matters now you know this.

Oolite
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 16:13
I'm constantly researching this stuff so i won't bore you with everything i know and everything i speculate, hell, i even considered starting a career in astrophysics a couple of years back. I spend countless hours lying awake thinking about this kind of stuff and its usually the main type of conversation down the pub.
Watch this.
Then get his book.
His book is awesome, he explains things in a clear and understandable way without dumbing it down and being patronising.

Grandma
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Location: Norway, Guiding the New World Order
Posted: 4th Feb 2009 16:32 Edited at: 4th Feb 2009 16:34
I've been watching some of the "The universe" documentaries that run on discovery channel and some other channels. Perfect example of something dumbed down.

They were talking about the moon and how it is not that small, is just far away. Learn something new everyday, I guess.

Edit: We need Carl Sagan back.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 17:17
Oolite: That guys is hilarious! Good find, I might get his book =]

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Oolite
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 20:00
He is indeed, possibly the most interesting astrophysicist to listen to who is alive today.

IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 20:20
Until now I'd only ever seen him in documentaries ... I found him to be much more entertaining when he's in front of an audience.

puppyofkosh
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Posted: 4th Feb 2009 21:23
Yeah, he's great. Really good at dumbing things down.

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