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Geek Culture / Amazing Non-photorealistic Rendering

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Chris K
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 22:06 Edited at: 27th Dec 2008 22:06
I came across this amazing demonstration of a NPR authoring and rendering systrem.

I've uploaded the video to Youtube.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gT9qU_fJNuw

Why oh why aren't there more games that look like this??
I really think it's the way to go for indie games at the moment.

Until there is amazing middleware that can generate realistic faces, and facial animation - and do clothes physics on everyone, and universal realtime lighting, then indies just can't put out photo-realistic stuff to compete with the big studios.

If we go this route though, we can make amazing looking games!

Imagine a kid's action game for XBLA that looked like the snowman example in the vid...



You can get away with simple models and animations and still look gorgeous.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-

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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 22:49
You're right - that IS amazing. Looks great.


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bergice
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 22:53
Omg, why is this not famous?

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ionstream
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 22:55
That's pretty amazing, I wonder what the shader looks like for that thing! Maybe a combination of a toon shader and a noise shader or something. I think its time I learn how to work that nVidia shader studio thingy.

zzz
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 23:05
Great idea, truly amazing!

Chris K
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Posted: 27th Dec 2008 23:35
Quote: "That's pretty amazing, I wonder what the shader looks like for that thing! Maybe a combination of a toon shader and a noise shader or something. I think its time I learn how to work that nVidia shader studio thingy."


I think in general, NPR shaders work by treating the screen as an image, rather than as objects. So, they render the scene normally and then run the kind of edge-detect routines you find in Photoshop etc.

With this one, I think it must texture the shapes with simple markers, and then those adjust how it renders the image later.

I just bought Dark Shader, so when that comes through I am going to attempt to make some natural looking fullscreen shaders. I have read quite a few papers, I think I should be able to get something up and running.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
ionstream
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 00:19
Dark Shader looks pretty cool. Good luck to you sir!

Alucard94
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 00:50
Oh my god. That is amazing.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Zombie 20
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 01:23
Very interesting. Looks like we just gained a footstool.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 01:49
That is pretty freaking awesome...

Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 03:31
That's awesome!

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 04:02
BMacZero
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 04:07 Edited at: 28th Dec 2008 04:11


That...is...COOL!!!!

EDit: According to Google, Blender has this incorporated into it now.



AndrewT
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 04:40
Quote: "EDit: According to Google, Blender has this incorporated into it now."


Yep, check out the videos on this page:

http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/16/npr-rendering-with-blenderfreestyle/

It seems pretty awesome!

zenassem
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 11:21
Looks nice! Should help to vary artistic style, and get rid of that 3d perfect edge syndrome.

bergice
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 11:44
Quote: "Should help to vary artistic style, and get rid of that 3d perfect edge syndrome."



*nod*

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 14:27
I know that Blender already has a Toon shader, but that's just awesome...

Guyra
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Posted: 28th Dec 2008 22:13
Whoa, that is amazing!

Aertic
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 01:52
*Whips out MaxSDK* I wanna incorparate that into my 3ds...



"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-'Butterfingers'
JoelJ
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 05:14
if someone gets a simple to use shader working for DBP with that kind of effect, I'll hug you.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 05:26
Well, I was going to, but no more...


AndrewT
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 06:04
Quote: "if someone gets a simple to use shader working for DBP with that kind of effect, I'll hug you."


Is that supposed to motivate people?

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 06:43
Looks very impressive .


Raven
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 11:14
Quote: "Why oh why aren't there more games that look like this??
I really think it's the way to go for indie games at the moment.

Until there is amazing middleware that can generate realistic faces, and facial animation - and do clothes physics on everyone, and universal realtime lighting, then indies just can't put out photo-realistic stuff to compete with the big studios.

If we go this route though, we can make amazing looking games!

Imagine a kid's action game for XBLA that looked like the snowman example in the vid..."


While I'm not going to say using similar techniques would be impossible for current generation technology, especially given these technology demonstrations are often done at less than top-end hardware due to research budgets and such.

Still to achieve the same level these guys have would be quite an undertaking (particularly for independant developers with limited resources and time), more importantly I'd say is that often technology demos are not designed with optimisations but rather to show something is possible.

Intel for example last year were showing off a Real-Time Ray-Tracer version of Quake 4, however while impressive; something I had to explain to someone who wanted to do something similar himself, was that Intel posted no specifications for the hardware they were using for the experiment... plus the entire engine was clearly not Ray-Traced, but rather there were elements within it of basic Geometric shapes (Spheres, Cylinders, Boxes and Torus) that were using ray-tracing for perfect world reflections.

Intel also never mentioned what framerates they were even able to achieve. It is quite difficult to dissern (particularly from videos running at 25/30fps anyway) what sort of performance something has.

On the matter of the Real-Time Ray-Tracers, I surmised that it was probably running at around 30fps; and that the limited way it was being used probably worked in a similar fashion to defer shading, where the limitations on screenspace used allow you to only calculate exactly what is necessary rather than a truely global solution.

In the case of this "hand-drawn" technique the performance on even single objects seems to suffer greatly, on the tea-cup it's alright but if you notice when they move to show the cog and then the edited cog.. suddenly the performance drops noticeably.

Even if someone did take the time and energy to figure out how they have done what they have done, which I could guess at how they've done it; but that said the cloning of a graphic style to the lines would be quite demanding for a GPU... not so much for a CPU though. Just don't see that being really feasible for real-time game graphics just yet.

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nackidno
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 11:53
Just one word: Wow!

"Ja, för det är jävligt manligt att ligga fosterställning i duschen och raka röven! Testa det! "
Chris K
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 11:56 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2009 01:29
This was made in 2002 - 2002!! - and it is clearly running in real time. I think it would easily run on modern graphics cards.

2002 is a long, long time ago in terms of graphics hardware.

Quote: "Still to achieve the same level these guys have would be quite an undertaking (particularly for independent developers with limited resources and time)"


Not using this system though, as you can see it is simply a case of 'drawing' your style onto the geometry.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-

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bergice
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 16:58
I think that is when i got my first computer, and its starting to get old now.

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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jan 2009 23:39
Well, Dark Shader didn't work but I am pressing on regardless. Here are some shots of the painterly rendering shader I am working on...



-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
bergice
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 00:00
Nice, want to see it in realtime!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 00:58
I remember getting a 3D program free on a magazine disk that seemed to use that sort of shading when you used it to design the objects - though you couldn't manipulate the appearance of the shader, but it looked much like the stuff in the video. I guess it's just one of those shaders people don't feel the need to use.

It would be interesting to see such things replicated.

Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 06:33
Wow, Chris, that looks awesome. Is that running in DBP? Would love to use something like that in my own projects


Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 11:00
Yup it's DBPro. Will post it to the shaders thread on the DBPro board when it is finished.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2009 23:13
Good job Chris K. However, I must say, that version of "Maps" is awful.

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 08:03
that video is pretty cool


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