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Geek Culture / Windows 7 Beta 1

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JoelJ
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 08:07 Edited at: 29th Dec 2008 08:08
Yay, we've got some screenshots of the first beta of Windows 7. (the last one was pre-beta).

It's looking really good. Not much different from the screenshots. I'm looking forward to hearing some reviews on the memory management and such. I've read some that it's really improved in that area since the prebeta, but that was from Microsoft, so we shall wait and see what the reviews say.

I like the new taskbar. It's really the same thing, they just ditched the text, merged it with the quicklaunch, use the grouping feature by default, and made the peek feature useful. So different, but not a huge change. And not a Mac Dock clone like a lot of mac fans are screaming.

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Robert F
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 08:56
When is it supposed to come out? I heard 2010? Looks just like Vista though(Not a bad thing). The new taskbar is cool. I hope you can change it if you want though.

Chris K
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 12:01
No, coming out 2009 I think.

The beta was leaked, you can get it from bittorrent I think.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Roxas
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 17:15
X_x Windows is now starting to copy Mac and Most of Linux distro styles now?

Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 17:18
Quote: "X_x Windows is now starting to copy Mac and Most of Linux distro styles now?"

I don't see why not.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 17:31
Quote: "X_x Windows is now starting to copy Mac and Most of Linux distro styles now?"


Considering that everything else is essentially the same... Icons, windows, mouse, etc.. it's hardly a huge thing to make it a little more similar to a Mac/Linux.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 17:36 Edited at: 29th Dec 2008 17:41
Does anyone else think that all these screenshots are the ugliest looking Windows shots ever? I can see it's not using Aero, ok, I know it DOES use Aero's styling still so that's beside the point. It's just all these bright colors look so ugly together, lol. It's the most hideous Windows 'default' background I've seen yet.

Anyhow, I dislike the new taskbar judging by screenshots. It looks like the smallest size takes up more space than previous taskbar iterations which is a no-no. To me.

And to those saying they copied Mac or Linux. Well, firstly, why not. If people like it, it's only obvious you should do it if you have the rights to do so, also, they're all so close to the same as it is, switching from a rectangular box with text and an icon to just a box with an icon for a minimized program isn't THAT big of a change or a copy off anyone else. Personally I think that is also a stupid choice. New computer users and people like my dad will get so pissed because "how am I supposed to know the little orange fox icon is to get on the internet!?" It will make navigation harder for them.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Roxas
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 18:07
Yeah but if i would desing OS i would make it little more unique. Well its ok to me but still Im bit dissapointed with lot of linux distros too because they just slack the default style and dont make it unique!

Altimit OS Project is quite unique because its linux based os from .HACK series. There is also XP port of it.

Alucard94
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 18:19
Well, it probably is really hard to make something unique these days, everything is done already.
Windows 7 looks cool, the new taskbar, while not the most beautiful thing in the world probably will have its uses.
I don't like to speculate about these sort of things before the launch of it anyways, keeps me from being wrong.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Robert F
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 18:45
Quote: "New computer users and people like my dad will get so pissed because "how am I supposed to know the little orange fox icon is to get on the internet!?"


Thats exactly what my mom will do. Thats why I said you should be able to switch it if you wanted to.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 19:47
Quote: "Yeah but if i would desing OS i would make it little more unique. Well its ok to me but still Im bit dissapointed with lot of linux distros too because they just slack the default style and dont make it unique!"


The thing is, once someone makes something new that people like, everyone else has to pretty much do it. It's like one car maker making an electric car - everyone else has to do it

Roxas
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 19:55
Quote: "The thing is, once someone makes something new that people like, everyone else has to pretty much do it. It's like one car maker making an electric car - everyone else has to do it"


The problem in windows is that its hard to customize.. To own look at least.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 20:50
I wouldn't mind more customisation in Windows, I'm not a big fan of the layout - with what I can customise I try my best. But what I would rather: a stable and compatible windows - as I consider that more important.

Saying that, I've had very few problems with Vista.

--The hatred of those who harbour such ill feelings as, "He reviled me, assaulted me, vanquished me and robbed me," is never appeased.--
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 20:57
Quote: "But what I would rather: a stable and compatible windows - as I consider that more important."


Vista is as stable as Ubuntu ever was for me. As for comaptibility, well... we'll see how Windows 7 fares I'd love to see built in virtualization, dunno if it's still on the table.

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:07
Vista is, in one word, crap.

I hope Windows 7 will be a proper, useful, stable and good operating system.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:11
Quote: "Vista is, in one word, crap."


A very adamant statement. Why do you say it's crap?

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Roxas
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:16 Edited at: 29th Dec 2008 23:25
Quote: "Vista is as stable as Ubuntu ever was for me"

Yeah vista is certainly pretty stable, Still the some problems with it seem to annyoy more users, But what ive tested its more stable than xp IMO!
And runnin certain programs is certainly more secure than normal. Myself im fan of sudo / run as admin command.
Hopefully Windows 7 intergates the Windows XP usefulness into Vista stylish and stableness. XP Wasnt so stable for me tho.

Mr Z
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:46
Not this argument again! Can people please stay on topic and not end up in a meaningless discussion about Vista vs OSX vs Linux?

Quote: "And to those saying they copied Mac or Linux. Well, firstly, why not. If people like it, it's only obvious you should do it if you have the rights to do so, also, they're all so close to the same as it is, switching from a rectangular box with text and an icon to just a box with an icon for a minimized program isn't THAT big of a change or a copy off anyone else. Personally I think that is also a stupid choice. New computer users and people like my dad will get so pissed because "how am I supposed to know the little orange fox icon is to get on the internet!?" It will make navigation harder for them."


You can also be like me and want a "unique" experience for each OS... on the other hand it looks like they have changed it enough to be that, so... time will tell, might be bad, or might be good .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:47 Edited at: 29th Dec 2008 21:52
I'd say Vista is more stable than XP, but I don't know about XP SP2, I found with SP2 it was very stable. With Vista I've not noticed a difference when installing SP1, except for a couple of things that refuse to run without it.

As for compatibility, it's all the expectation of a 100% compatible system and I've found more things than I imagined in Vista work. (After hearing cries of 'Vista isn't very compatible) The only thing I've wanted to run that wouldn't is Summoner, stuff like Final Fantasy VIII runs swimmingly still (just a little tweaking - very little) Though my only complaints are that a couple of fairly recent 3D programs like to crash - like the demo of Cinema 4D 10, since I've downloaded the demo of C4D 11, no crashes, so it may be worth purchasing.



I am pleased with Vista, considering I was expecting a pile of dog-poo when it was released and a lot of stress, I felt better when people told me it wasn't so bad and so far, stress free - my first experiences when migrating from 98 to XP and after 3 years of using it, stress. After SP2 I had no problems.


But I still hear complaints from other people and other experiences, so I imagine Vista still needs more work and hopefully that's what MS rectifies with Windows 7...hopefully upgrades will be cheap.



With the copying each other argument - good ideas are good ideas, innovation is innovation, I think if more people shared ideas, then more users/clients/customers will have a better experience with what they choose. If Microsoft copy apple or Linux, then that's because they had a good idea, likewise if Apple or a Linux distro copies MS.

--The hatred of those who harbour such ill feelings as, "He reviled me, assaulted me, vanquished me and robbed me," is never appeased.--
Robert F
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:50
The biggest complaint I always hear about Vista is that some printers aren't compatible.

Just because your printer doesn't work your not going to upgrade. You must also have a very old printer to. Every printer I have tried worked. I love Vista. I have never had any problems with it. I find it harder to go back and work on an Xp Computer.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 21:55
Yeah, Vista has been nothing but stable and everything I've wanted to use has been compatible. I have not had any issues with it and it is running just as fluidly as the day I installed it about 6 months ago. That's better luck than I've had with any XP machine.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Roxas
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 23:28
Quote: "Not this argument again! Can people please stay on topic and not end up in a meaningless discussion about Vista vs OSX vs Linux?"

As i can see there have been no arguments in this thread.

Quote: "As for compatibility, it's all the expectation of a 100% compatible system and I've found more things than I imagined in Vista work. (After hearing cries of 'Vista isn't very compatible) The only thing I've wanted to run that wouldn't is Summoner, stuff like Final Fantasy VIII runs swimmingly still (just a little tweaking - very little) Though my only complaints are that a couple of fairly recent 3D programs like to crash - like the demo of Cinema 4D 10, since I've downloaded the demo of C4D 11, no crashes, so it may be worth purchasing."


Seppuku you should check out some FFVIII Launchers on qhimm.com forums! Have many cool features. Hi resolution backgrounds palette fixes mp3 music and even more!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 23:37
Quote: "The biggest complaint I always hear about Vista is that some printers aren't compatible"


I've not found mine to be incompatible, but for some reason the drivers take a very, very long time to install, I found the same thing on my housemate's Vista laptop (he wanted to borrow my printer as his didn't seem to work anymore)

Quote: "Seppuku you should check out some FFVIII Launchers on qhimm.com forums! Have many cool features. Hi resolution backgrounds palette fixes mp3 music and even more!"


Awesome, I'll take a look, though I've left my FFVIII disks at my student house, so I'll only be able to check them out when I return (at the end of January)

--The hatred of those who harbour such ill feelings as, "He reviled me, assaulted me, vanquished me and robbed me," is never appeased.--
Robert F
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 23:40
Quote: "I've not found mine to be incompatible, but for some reason the drivers take a very, very long time to install, I found the same thing on my housemate's Vista laptop (he wanted to borrow my printer as his didn't seem to work anymore)"


Did you try updating the drivers?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 23:46
No, the one on their website is exactly the same - there's really nothing wrong, it's just with Vista it took 50x longer than XP to install them.

--The hatred of those who harbour such ill feelings as, "He reviled me, assaulted me, vanquished me and robbed me," is never appeased.--
Mr Z
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Posted: 29th Dec 2008 23:52
Quote: "As i can see there have been no arguments in this thread."


I just sort of read the entire thing very loosly and just saw a few Linux and OSX and... but please to not start to at last .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Satchmo
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 04:21
Here are some better screen shot's with full Aero.

Quote: "X_x Windows is now starting to copy Mac and Most of Linux distro styles now?"

?.. No, the windows seven taskbar is basically combining the quicklaunch and the windows 1 programs bar.



See?

Quote: "Anyhow, I dislike the new taskbar judging by screenshots. It looks like the smallest size takes up more space than previous taskbar iterations which is a no-no. To me"


There are sizing options.



One feature I'm looking very forward to in windows 7 is the device stage, which should really bridge the gap between high tech devices and not so computer savvy people, and it also looks to make certain tasks really easy.

http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/12/29/windows-7-device-stage.aspx
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_beta.asp

Another one I'm looking forward to is aero peek, and this looks to be one of the best aero features yet, it let's you view the entire application window as you mouse over the thumbnail.

Snaps also looks like a efficiency improver.

JoelJ
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 04:48
Quote: "It's the most hideous Windows 'default' background I've seen yet."

Remember, it's a beta... hence the Betta fish.


Quote: "Vista is, in one word, crap."

get over yourself.


Quote: "When is it supposed to come out? I heard 2010? "

It's supposed to come out end of '09 or start of '10 last I heard

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 05:21
Quote: "Remember, it's a beta... hence the Betta fish. "


I know I just hope they don't go with that color scheme. It's really unpleasant... and I like blue ALOT.

If the taskbar can be made smaller and reflects titlebar/window border color changes then it might be cool. Dunno. I'd like to be able to adjust transparency of it seperately from window borders though Now I'm just nitpicking.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

draknir_
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 06:23
I hate the fat taskbar look, in fact I'd prefer to make it as thin as possible (20 pixels is enough for me ). So I hope I can resize it to that small.
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 06:27
I have to say, Windows 7 looks and sounds like what they promised Vista would be. Maybe MicroSoft will redeem themselves?

We'll find out.

@draknir_

I too cannot stand fat taskbars. I like it as small as possible (without completely disappearing).

"People still have 1024x768?" -Jeku
JoelJ
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 07:46
Quote: "If the taskbar can be made smaller and reflects titlebar/window border color changes then it might be cool"

It can, trust me.


Quote: "I too cannot stand fat taskbars. I like it as small as possible (without completely disappearing)"

If it's stacking the tasks 2 high, then I like it fat. But I like it as small as it can be while still showing as much as it can.
I have my taskbar 2x high right now. I like it a LOT better that way. in fact, it bugs me when people don't do that


Quote: "I have to say, Windows 7 looks and sounds like what they promised Vista would be"

I sure hope so. They have a new guy leading the way, I really really hope he pulls through.

I'm surprised that no one has made a Windows 7 Taskbar hack for Vista/XP or for Linux yet.

[/url]
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Robert F
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 09:03 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 09:16
Quote: "I'm surprised that no one has made a Windows 7 Taskbar hack for Vista/XP or for Linux yet."


http://www.technixupdate.com/convert-vista-taskbar-to-windows-7-style-taskbar/

*Windows Seven Removed Features:

* Classic Start menu and classic Taskbar [1]
* Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker and Windows Mail (all can be replaced with their new Windows Live counterparts, currently under development)
* The Software Explorer feature of Windows Defender has been removed.[2]
* Removable Storage Manager (RSM), which was introduced in Windows 2000. [3] Applications having dependencies on RSM such as NTBackup or the NTBackup Restore Tool cannot run.
* Windows Meeting Space
* InkBall
* The numeric keypad has been removed from On-Screen Keyboard

Stats from Wikipedia

Is it illegal to download it? I want to really bad...

General Reed
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 10:41
Looks cool, The real question is, Will it finaly perform better than xp as promised?

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David R
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 16:23 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 16:24
Quote: "Will it finaly perform better than xp as promised?"


My bet is: No

It's looking promising, but my two major gripes are performance, and the start menu. The latter because it currently doesn't "fit" visually, and I hope they whip out an amazing new replacement before it ships (I reckon they will, because the orb looks rather crummy as it is)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
General Reed
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 17:33
Quote: "My bet is: No"

Damn. Guess ill stick with xp for another 20 years lol.

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Roxas
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 18:18
Atleast it runs in 400 ram No more ugly vista ram issues =)
Tho i find the ridicolus "Windows 7 is the linux killer" news popping up in internet..

David R
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 18:28
Quote: "Another one I'm looking forward to is aero peek, and this looks to be one of the best aero features yet, it let's you view the entire application window as you mouse over the thumbnail."


Isn't that just Mac OSX's Expose on crack?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Satchmo
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:04 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:20
Quote: "Isn't that just Mac OSX's Expose on crack?"


No! With expose, it shrinks all the windows depending on how many you have, with aero peek, it actually let's you see the entire window before opening, it even let's you switch tabs in multiprocessor browsers.

Quote: "My bet is: No

It's looking promising, but my two major gripes are performance, and the start menu. The latter because it currently doesn't "fit" visually, and I hope they whip out an amazing new replacement before it ships (I reckon they will, because the orb looks rather crummy as it is)"


My bet is yes, have you looked at any of the recent benchmarks?




Also perceived performance is a lot different than actual performance. A lot of the extra new graphical effects and features in windows vista actual made the operating system look sluggish and slow, even though that was just because the new effect was playing out, but in windows seven, everything has been clean up and actually looks really fast, much faster than Vista.

Plus, these benchmarks are not even using the most recent build/beta, the beta is supposedly even faster than the previous build.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:10 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:12
What about stability? Has there been any comments on stability vs Vista and XP? And I suppose compatibility with games and apps? (same computability as Vista?)


Given the performance tests there, I feel more hopeful about Windows 7.

Satchmo
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:19
Quote: "What about stability? Has there been any comments on stability vs Vista and XP? And I suppose compatibility with games and apps? (same computability as Vista?)


Given the performance tests there, I feel more hopeful about Windows 7.
"


Yes, they are retaining all compatibility from Vista, plus improving device and printer support.

David R
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:21 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:22
Quote: "No! With expose, it shrinks all the windows depending on how many you have, with aero peek, it actually let's you see the entire window before opening, it even let's you switch tabs in multiprocessor browsers."


Hence why I said "on crack" rather than just "it's a copy of Expose"

Quote: "
My bet is yes, have you looked at any of the recent benchmarks?
"


What are the specs of the machine that was benchmarked in that test? (Since benchmarks are fairly useless without context)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:21
Quote: "What about stability? Has there been any comments on stability vs Vista and XP? And I suppose compatibility with games and apps? (same computability as Vista?)


Given the performance tests there, I feel more hopeful about Windows 7."


The only thing I have heared from the beta tasters is that it is very stable, especially for a beta.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:29 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:30
That is also good news, I may end up getting it when it's released.

Also, for the 'slow vista appearance', just turn off the Visuals and it'll feel much sharper, even set to Windows Classic theme.

Robert F
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:35
Is it illegal to download the leaked beta? If not, I will take pictures of whatever you guys want to see.

Roxas
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:39 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:39
Quote: "Another one I'm looking forward to is aero peek, and this looks to be one of the best aero features yet, it let's you view the entire application window as you mouse over the thumbnail."

You mean this feature?


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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 19:41 Edited at: 30th Dec 2008 19:44
Quote: "You mean this feature?"


But more developed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg6ltIZRw0

Still prefer alt-tab (the Ubuntu version of alt-tab also does something similar to this "Aero Peek" feature, but it looks horrible in my opinion). Plus I can organize which window is which. Do not want to make my mind even more lazy, lol!

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Roxas
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 20:05
Quote: "the Ubuntu version of alt-tab also does something similar to this "Aero Peek" feature, but it looks horrible in my opinion"

You can change that But yeah. Lets now keep linux out of this for while lol =)

Satchmo
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 20:10
Quote: "You mean this feature? "


No, that's a thumbnail, in windows 7, when you mouse over a thumbnail it shows the full sized window and all the other windows turn into glass.

General Reed
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Posted: 30th Dec 2008 20:17
Quote: "operating system look sluggish and slow, even though that was just because the new effect was playing out, but in windows seven, everything has been clean up and actually looks really fast, much faster than Vista."

What exactly do you mean by this? For example, In GTAIV i get 15fps in the benchmark, in vista, In xp i get a nice 34fps in the benchmark, And no gta4 is not dx10. Surely this is not caused by wrongly animated themes?

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