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Geek Culture / Will blu-ray end up at the same cost as single layer dvds

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hatlawyer
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 21:26
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I was just wondering if anyone has any idea if blu-ray technology will end up as cheap as standard dvd techonology. Even though dvd and double layer dvds are old news most blank dual layer dvds are extortianatly priced at about £10 for 5 discs where as a single layer dvd only costs around £2.50 for a 5 pack. As far as I know most blu-ray discs have multiple layers so will blu-ray discs end up at £10 for 5 or £2.40 for 5? but obviosly im talking in the long term when blu-ray becomes as commonplace as dvd.
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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 21:32
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Um, yes? Of course?

I know you're new and everything (although I have my suspicious as to your true identity), but please limit the number of new threads created in a single day, especially when they're just observational.


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hatlawyer
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 21:36
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Ok sure thing
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El Goorf
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 22:05
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my blu-ray player came as a £10 optional extra!

in conclusion: yes.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 22:11
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Blu-Ray, I believe, will indeed become as cheap as single-layer DVDs...


...just before the next generation of Hi-Def comes out. Well, maybe it won't be like, but I sure won't be surprised if it did.

Don't Blur-Ray discs hold like 25 GBs per side or something? No wonder Sony decided to use that for the PS3!


See my thread over in WIP!
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hatlawyer
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Posted: 8th Jan 2009 22:18
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Yea i did a little research on the formats in the format war and I was hoping to god the better format would win this time and it did! Thank god although there wasn't as much difference between blu and hd-dvd as there was with beta and vhs

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David R
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:05 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 00:08
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No, because I reckon the economic downturn will kill the format - a large majority of people seem happy enough with DVDs and don't seem inclined to buy HD equivalents. I'm certainly not bothered - I can barely tell the difference between SD and HD to begin with (although HD must be nice for gaming)

I refer to this as my example: http://www.silver-ware.net/movies/potc1unf.png

Although the HD image on the right is clearly superior, the average person, sitting a good distance away from the TV will barely be able to notice the difference - or at least, it's hardly going to garner a "Let's go spend lots of money on new Blu-Ray players and Blu-Ray discs!"


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Lemonade
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:15
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Quote: "Although the HD image on the right is clearly superior, the average person, sitting a good distance away from the TV will barely be able to notice the difference - or at least, it's hardly going to garner a "Let's go spend lots of money on new Blu-Ray players and Blu-Ray discs!"
"


It's like comparing 800x600 to 1080p; any gamer who appreciates high-resolution games will see a large difference, like I do. If I had the cash I would invest in a Blu-Ray player and rent some HD movies right now.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:27
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Quote: "It's like comparing 800x600 to 1080p"


Yep. How many of you guys don't see the point play your games at 800x600. Not many I bet

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David R
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:35 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 00:36
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Quote: "ep. How many of you guys don't see the point play your games at 800x600. Not many I bet"


But I don't watch films at the same distance as I play a game on my PC. That's my whole point - it may be a really noticeable at close proximity, but sitting a good distance away from a big screen in a comfortable position for movie-watching, the difference is much much less noticeable - that's why I think it will fail. People aren't going to suddenly splurt out a load of cash to get slightly more wrinkle detail on Johnny Depp's face whilst sitting a few metres away from the TV (Especially considering the economic situation)


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El Goorf
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 00:40
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some of us do watch films at same distance as playing a game on pc

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 01:43 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 01:44
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Sorry to disagree strongly David, but I have a HDTV and some films on Blu Ray, including that BBC series about nature. The quality difference is astounding.

Maybe this is not the case with some material but for films that are new and take advantage of the technology, the difference is amazing.

I was one of the biggest opponents of HD, by the way. I thought the idea was hella lame.



AND REGARDING THE IMAGE YOU POSTED

The difference is huge. Imagine that image moving around and you can focus on the creases of his hat with your eyes etc. The one on the left actually looks pretty lame!

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 04:59
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Hehe...in the picture it looks like Captain Jack is sayin'

"Rock on, me hearty's!!"


See my thread over in WIP!
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JoelJ
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 05:03
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The image is scaled down. I mean, if you had a standard image stretched on your TV vs one that isn't stretched nearly as bad, you notice. Before I got an HDTV with HDTV (which isn't even that high of HD quality) I didn't think there was much of a difference. But now when I go from one to another, I notice a huge difference.

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Lemonade
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 06:49 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 06:50
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Quote: "Sorry to disagree strongly David, but I have a HDTV and some films on Blu Ray, including that BBC series about nature. The quality difference is astounding."


Yeah, one of the first things I want to rewatch when I get Blu-Ray will be the BBC nature series. Even with comparatively low resolution, the video footage was amazing.

Quote: "But I don't watch films at the same distance as I play a game on my PC. That's my whole point - it may be a really noticeable at close proximity, but sitting a good distance away from a big screen in a comfortable position for movie-watching, the difference is much much less noticeable - that's why I think it will fail. People aren't going to suddenly splurt out a load of cash to get slightly more wrinkle detail on Johnny Depp's face whilst sitting a few metres away from the TV (Especially considering the economic situation)"


That may be true for some people...however, I'm the type of person who could tell the difference from across the house. But I can see where your coming from; it really depends on the viewer.

Also, people who already bought HD TVs should normally be able to afford at least a cheaper Blu-Ray model.
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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 07:34 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 07:35
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Anyone who has an HDTV and switches the same program between standard and hi-def will *definitely* notice a *huge* difference. I don't believe you if you say it's not a big difference.

I watched the IIHF junior hockey championships this week (Canada won!) in HD and shed a tear it was so beautiful.


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David R
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 17:32
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There is a difference - I know that. I said that. What I mean, is the average strapped-for-cash consumer is not going to splash cash to get a quality improvement, considering the distance at which most films and TV are watched from. That is why I believe the format, in the long term, will fail (especially now, considering the economic issues)


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General Reed
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 18:01
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Why rotating drives are used in this day and age idk. I personaly copy all the games i buy to a huge backup HDD, And mount them on deamon tools, Then apply a crack to it for no cd (Which is perfectly legal if you own the game). Yes i know that HDD are rotary, But im just waiting for SDD drives to be affordable. I think downloadable content systems like steam is the way to go. No more, I cant play the game because the disc is scratched nonsence.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 19:17 Edited at: 9th Jan 2009 19:18
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Quote: "What I mean, is the average strapped-for-cash consumer is not going to splash cash to get a quality improvement, considering the distance at which most films and TV are watched from. That is why I believe the format, in the long term, will fail (especially now, considering the economic issues)"

I've got ten bucks that says that people said that about VHS -> DVD when that was going on forever ago. "There's hardly a quality difference between the two. The average person won't care," I'm sure wasn't a very uncommon thing to hear.

I've got another ten bucks that says that the average person now cares now that they've tasted DVD. My mom, for example, has always been one who says, "Oh, I don't care, [insert tech here] is good enough." I remember her saying that she didn't see a difference in standard and HD TV. You couldn't pay her to go back now.

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David R
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 21:18
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Quote: "I've got ten bucks that says that people said that about VHS -> DVD when that was going on forever ago. "There's hardly a quality difference between the two. The average person won't care," I'm sure wasn't a very uncommon thing to hear."


VHS -> DVD is different, because it only required new disc playing equipment. Blu-Ray, on the other hand requires an HDTV (if you actually want to get anything out of it) - a lot of people still don't own a HDTV


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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 21:57
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Quote: "Why rotating drives are used in this day and age idk."


Agreed 100%. I'm excited for when everything is solid state, if that ever happens.


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Bozzy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2009 22:31
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It will... but something else will come along better than it... and this will go on and on

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Lemonade
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Posted: 10th Jan 2009 00:20
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JoelJ
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Posted: 10th Jan 2009 00:27
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Quote: "VHS -> DVD is different, because it only required new disc playing equipment. Blu-Ray, on the other hand requires an HDTV (if you actually want to get anything out of it) - a lot of people still don't own a HDTV"

Yeah, but the DVDs didn't play your VHS tapes. So now they had to have two devices or buy all new movies.
There are problems with every new advancement.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 20:06 Edited at: 11th Jan 2009 20:07
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David, what are you saying? That Blu Ray is just going to disappear and people will never move on from DVD's?

Since you cant actually buy SD TV's anymore, its a matter of time before everyone is HD ready and buying Blu Rays.

And again, *I thinK* you are wrong about the quality difference.

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dab
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 06:27
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Quote: "No more, I cant play the game because the disc is scratched nonsence."


:\ Back in the floppy days, we didn't have that. xD

On a more serious note, after a year of HDTV, I must say watching TV on anything else really does make my eyes hurt. I went to my cousin's house one day and their TV was terrible, even from far away in the back of the living room. Then again, not everyone has the same eye sight, nor the same opinions. So meh.

At any rate, I can't afford a blu ray JUST yet. Keep the price goin down Sony! I'm sure to come soon. :<

Until then, I'll stick to our DVDs and VHS

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hatlawyer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 14:37
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Quote: "Until then, I'll stick to our DVDs and VHS "


I think hdd recorders are becomning a lot more cheaper than bluray so that would be my first port of call if i wanted to record in high definition

And when are they going to bring tivo back!

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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 15:26
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Surely formats are dying anyway, won't it all be data on a hard-drive/network soon?

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 16:43
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I'm actually surprise at BR's growth here. Retailers only started picking up HD-DVD & BR around 14 months ago, (pre xmas 2007). A few titles initially and now it's spreading through all of them. The price point (for movies) is evening out by the day, there's currently only a few bucks in it. While it could well be an optical illusion, if it stay alive and can keep growing at this rate, it'll be putting some real pressure on DVD shelve space by the end of the year.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 17:03
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Quote: "And when are they going to bring tivo back!
"

ummm... where did Tivo go?

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hatlawyer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 17:08
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Quote: "ummm... where did Tivo go?"


Its not available in the uk anymore

Tivo did a marketing and promotion deal with sky digital when it first came out and sky wanted to release a pvr exclusive to the sky satellite sevice so they basically killed tivo off so that more people would get the sky pvr.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 10:45
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if people would have supported the superior format from the beginning, HD-DVD, the prices would already be close to standard DVDS. Shortly after the death of Toshiba's format, the were able to add another layer and increase size to that of Blu-Ray, maybe more, and existing players would've worked fine with them. Not to mention HD had superior audio encoding and costing significantly less than Sony will ever allow. As soon as Toshiba made their big announcement last year, Blu-ray prices shot way up.

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bond1
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 13:30
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The great thing about DVD's in their heyday is that they were great for burning data to as well as watching movies. Who the hell in their right mind wants to burn a bluray disk in this day and age when external storage is so much cheaper and faster?

That leaves bluray only good for one thing: watching high-def movies. I just don't see it catching on the same way DVD's did, I doubt most people are going to want to replace their movie collection with another set of discs that you have to swap out one by one...it seems almost archaic now. But replacing their collection with easy to access downloadable movies seems a lot more plausible.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 18:23
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Quote: "I doubt most people are going to want to replace their movie collection with another set of discs that you have to swap out one by one...it seems almost archaic now. But replacing their collection with easy to access downloadable movies seems a lot more plausible."


Wow... that took me way back... Like when people were saying that about DVDs... This happens EVERY time new media is introduced. DVDs weren't reasonable for burning when they first came out, because they were way expensive. No one wanted to replace their VHS movies with DVDs.

Quote: "if people would have supported the superior format from the beginning, HD-DVD"

amen to that!

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 18:35
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Quote: "Wow... that took me way back... Like when people were saying that about DVDs... This happens EVERY time new media is introduced. DVDs weren't reasonable for burning when they first came out, because they were way expensive. No one wanted to replace their VHS movies with DVDs."


Exactly. My mom is even moving all her home videos over to DVDs as she's even come to realize that VHS deteriorate and start to look bad over the years, not to mention you risk the tapes getting chewed or broken.

It took awhile but 90% of their VHS collection is on DVD now. Well, just gotta break it to her that it's time to convert it all to BluRay now hhahahhahaha.

On-demand streaming really is a cool way to do things. I have NetFlix all set up on my xbox and it's great. There's not a ton of on-demand stuff yet, but the list is growing and I have well over 20 or 30 movies in my queue I have yet to watch. It's like having a whole rack of DVDs and I didn't once have to leave the house or spend money to get it (well, besides the subscription fee, but it's so cheap it's a no brainer. Costs the same as buying one DVD a month)

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JoelJ
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 21:56 Edited at: 14th Jan 2009 21:57
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Quote: "Exactly. My mom is even moving all her home videos over to DVDs as she's even come to realize that VHS deteriorate and start to look bad over the years, not to mention you risk the tapes getting chewed or broken. "

CD/DVDs aren't invincible either :/ But nothing is, ya know? Well, except maybe me.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 23:51 Edited at: 14th Jan 2009 23:51
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Easier and quicker to back up though - she should try different kinds of copies - VHS, DVD, Bluray (for the future), External Hard driver, to the internet and a full performance by a group of mime actors to follow you round where you go to insight happy memories of times gone.

Though, she might not be as creative as some, personally, everybody should have a group of mimes following them.

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bond1
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 02:19
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Quote: "Wow... that took me way back... Like when people were saying that about DVDs... This happens EVERY time new media is introduced. DVDs weren't reasonable for burning when they first came out, because they were way expensive. No one wanted to replace their VHS movies with DVDs.
."


I don't know - DVD's represented a HUGE leap over VHS that most people could see the benefit to. No quality degredation, no eaten tapes, instant scene access, no more rewinding, smaller size. The ONLY benefit Bluray has over DVD is high-def. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most people are going to have a harder time justifying the jump to Bluray.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 05:23
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DVDs scratch easier. They slip down in hard to reach places. The different formats make it annoying when trying to make one DVD work in different players.

Quote: "The ONLY benefit Bluray has over DVD is high-def. Maybe I'm wrong"

You are wrong.
Bluray, or so I hear, deals better with scratches and stuff like that. Bluray definitely holds more than a DVD does.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 12:24 Edited at: 15th Jan 2009 12:25
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An awful lot more: 25gb on a single layer, 50gb on dual layer. Given the DVDs I bought the other day only hold 4.2gbs, that's quite a bit of difference. It leaves plenty of space for watch different versions of a movie (you may have the theatrical version and the uncut, I think)

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 14:46
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DVDs have about 4.2 gigs per layer, dual layer dvds hold over 8 gigs, but yeah, up to 50 gigs is a huge size difference.

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Phaelax
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We should use those holographic discs, 80GB per layer I believe.

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 09:35 Edited at: 16th Jan 2009 09:42
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Quote: "DVDs have about 4.2 gigs per layer, dual layer dvds hold over 8 gigs, but yeah, up to 50 gigs is a huge size difference."


But do you REALLY want to mess around burning an optical disk (which as of now Bluray burners are still crazy slow) now that external storage is so dirt cheap, and reusable? Not me.

Before the explosion of cheap external storage, burning DVD's were a great way to store data, backups, etc. There's such a proliferation of massive external storage now - USB keys, 320gig pocket drives, etc. I just don't see burning optical disks as a relevant way to store data anymore.

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General Reed
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[quote]But do you REALLY want to mess around burning an optical disk (which as of now Bluray burners are still crazy slow) now that external storage is so dirt cheap, and reusable? Not me.[quote]
Indeed. I think all these rotating storage devices, are a waste of time. This year the new smartcard XD's are comming out, which will be capable of up to 2TB's of storage. They will be fast enough for installing games off of, and playing blueray movies off of.

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monotonic
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 20:44
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Personally I'm holding out for storage devices that use sugar lumps to store data. That way you can just wash your credit card details away with a nice cuppa.

WARNING! The author of this post is most probably drunk or asleep.
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Gunn3r
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Not only is Blu-ray helpful for movies, but think of what that does for games. I mean, the PS3 is able to read Blu-ray games, which, compared to the standard discs used for Xbox 360 and Wii, give Sony room to run away with the hi-def era. I just watched The Dark Knight on my PS3 in Blu-ray and I have to say, it was one CRISP movie. Sure, it's still an expensive format to burn to right now, but in a couple years, it'll be just like DVDs are now.

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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 01:24
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Quote: "Not only is Blu-ray helpful for movies, but think of what that does for games."


I still think having a higher capacity than DVD will not makes the games any better. MGS4 was great but it was also over an hour of non-game. It will take years before games require more than a DVD in my opinion.

Remember when CD games started coming out? Most of the CD games were crap FMV games where you'd watch a pixelated postage-sized video clip then press a button to do an action. Then you'd watch... wait... press a button... etc. There wasn't a need to go to CD-ROM until games started maturing and we got into the PSX era.


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David R
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 01:38 Edited at: 17th Jan 2009 01:39
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Quote: "It will take years before games require more than a DVD in my opinion."


I'd just like to point out that LittleBigPlanet is 23GB in size (that said, I think it's needless size - I place bets that Sony probably encourages the use of uncompressed audio or something)


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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 02:05
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Quote: "I'd just like to point out that LittleBigPlanet is 23GB in size (that said, I think it's needless size - I place bets that Sony probably encourages the use of uncompressed audio or something)"


Yah, I guess I'm at odds with my opinions quite often, because LBP is my favourite PS3 game thus far. There is a crap-ton of art in that game, but as far as I can tell that's the only thing that would take up so much of the space. 23GB though? That would have to be uncompressed textures and audio. I could be wrong of course


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 02:32
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The thing is, games do get bigger and bigger in size, it doesn't make them better, Sony obviously took the advantage of the size of BluRay for little Big Planet, and well it is a great game, I'd have to agree, using Stephen Fry to narrate as well I think was perfect, it's one of my favourites out at the moment too -it's great, but not thanks to the size, but no doubt as computers will be able to handle larger texture files, higher polygon scenes, then maybe the extra space on a bluRay will get used up.

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