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Geek Culture / Cool Camera Work and CG

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:30
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No, I did not avoid responding to your post. I started writing before you posted, so your message did not appear to me until after I posted. I have since edited my post.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:30 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 01:39
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Is your Caps key broken Omega?
Quote: "
Oh, yes, I love making excuses. I'm sure you're above all that nonsense, seeing as you're clearly completely perfect in every way.
Honestly, did you ever consider that MAYBE some of the reasons I give MIGHT be valid? No, you just automatically assumed I must be horrible at what I do, and that I just make up excuses."


If this was the first time you've done a list of excuses, then yes I would have been out of order with my comment. But you always have a list of excuses why your work is somebody else's fault.

Quote: "Oh, yes I'M clearly the one on the podium. Unless you're self employed, yeah, you really do need a degree to get hired in any major industry by any legitimate company. Not ALL industries require a degree, but the vast majority of the better paying and more lucrative ones do."


Not in the creative sector you don't. Somebody may very well have an arts degree but they are completely rubbish at art, and show no level of creativity.
Quote: "
Yes, but those people are most likely self employed, and do not make anywhere near as much as those who do have a degree."


You are delusional if you think that is true.

Quote: "No they really won't. No sane employer would ever consider hiring a person with no training over someone with a degree. Also, you said "film studies". I'm studying to shoot and edit video and create motion graphics, not to actually make films. I'm not being trained to write or to act or to direct. I am being trained to do the technical aspects of the film and video industries."


Again, you are incredibly naive. If they are able to prove their talents with a portfolio of work, and it turns out to be better than your work, they will be chosen over you.


A degree is a proof of knowledge. That is all it is. I could easily go out and pick up a book on Computer Science and teach myself everything there is to know about the subject. But I still wouldn't get a job even if I did know everything there is to know.

The problem with a creative degree is, that you don't need a degree to prove you are creative. And yes, your degree is a creative degree.

The other problem is that you call yourself a "semi-professional" but you have yet to show us any works that might back up your argument.


Anyway, I feel I am teetering incredibly close to a noob slap, so I shall stop. I have said what I have had to say, and I feel you are ignoring everything we have said, without properly thinking it through.

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:40 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 01:41
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Quote: "Yeah, not really. If you get a job as software engineer with no degree, good for you, but you are not a PROFESSIONAL software engineer."


Well then we'll agree to disagree. Bill Gates dropped out of his first semester at Harvard, so I guess he's not a professional either. Steve Jobs as well. Hmm...


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:45 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 01:52
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Quote: "Omega, It was quite unnecessary of you to write 'over-hyping' 50 times over,"

It was only a joke. Calm down, toasty didn't get mad, so why are you?
Quote: "But you always have a list of excuses why your work is somebody else's fault."

Yeahhhhhh... No, I really don't.
Quote: "You are delusional if you think that is true."

I can absolutely guarantee you that someone with a degree will have a better chance of getting a job than someone without a degree. It is also fact that those with degrees get paid more than those without.
Quote: "Again, you are incredibly naive. If they are able to prove their talents with a portfolio of work, and it turns out to be better than your work, they will be chosen over you."

Again, you appear to have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, that may happen OCCASIONALLY. But for the most part, someone without a degree won't even be CONSIDERED for a job. Many employers will look at an application and say, "Hmm... no degree." and toss the paper in the garbage.
Quote: "The problem with a creative degree is, that you don't need a degree to prove you are creative."

True enough.
Quote: "And yes, your degree is a creative degree."

Ok, now you are just being downright ridiculous. I think that I would know what my degree is about a lot better than you. I have learned absolutely NOTHING about creativity. Everything we were taught and are being taught has to do with the technical skills and abilities necessary for this type of profession. You can't teach creativity. Its simply not possible. For example, I had to take two drawing classes my first two semesters, and I still cannot draw to save my life. I have the same drawing ability I had when I was a year old. You are either born with the ability to learn how to draw, or you are born without that ability. I was born without it, so I will never be able to draw, no matter how much training I receive. You cannot teach someone to be creative, because that that is not about knowledge or experience, it is about the way you think and how your mind works.
My degree is a technical degree, not a creative degree.
Hence, "Pittsburgh Technical Institute."
Quote: "
Bill Gates dropped out of his first semester at Harvard,"

Yes, and started his own company, he didn't get hired by an existing one. Bill gates was simply exceptionally gifted in his field. Regardless, he did not receive a degree, so he *was* not a professional. Do you think that any of the companies back then would have hired him after he dropped out of his first semester? No, that's why he started his own company.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:46
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What does it matter to anyone if Omega considers himself a professional? And what does it matter to you, Omega, if anyone does not consider you a professional?

You see, that's the beautiful thing about perspective- it's yours.


This argument will go no where. Just drop it.


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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:47
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Okay, seriously guys. Cut it out.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:53
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True enough. This argument will bring none of us any benefit. I'm willing to stop arguing and let it drop if the rest of you are.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:55 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 01:55
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Edit: the kid says he's done arguging so I am too.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 01:58
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I really hate to make another post and risk starting more arguments, but I just wanted to say one thing:
Please don't call me a kid. I'm almost 20.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 02:00
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Anyways.

I guess we could talk more about film experience and what not. I'm quite young, not exactly to college yet, but I love to film around.

Who has videos of cool camera tricks and video effects they cooked up? You know, like the video that started this thread.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 02:04 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 02:05
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Quote: "Please don't call me a kid. I'm almost 20."


Quite honestly, that's the most worrying part about the whole thing.
Quote: "
I guess we could talk more about film experience and what not. I'm quite young, not exactly to college yet, but I love to film around.

Who has videos of cool camera tricks and video effects they cooked up? You know, like the video that started this thread."


I've always been rubbish at shooting footage. I just can't get the lighting right, I also can't hold a camera steady for toffee!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 02:08
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Haha. Three words- tripods are magic.

Honestly, I picked up a tripod from Wal-Mart for 20 bucks. It's the most beautiful piece of equipment I've ever used! Only China can make such a great tool for under 20 bucks!


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 02:21
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Heh, I own a tripod, its just for moving shots. My videos always come out too grainy anyway. I must be doing something wrong with the camera. The problem is my knowledge of a camera consists of which end to point where and which button to press etc.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 05:47
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(Off-topic (kinda): Omega, for some reason that video of yours reminds me of a show made in the 90's...I can't say why, but it's definitely the quality of the video that makes it appear that way. For some reason it just reminds me of a show (like Boy Meets World) that would have aired in the 90's. I like the video and the music.)

ON-TOPIC:

So that's what that song is called! I heard it on the radio the other day, it's one of the only songs of the 00's that I like ( I usually listen to 70's,80's and *some* 90's music, I think modern stuff is just too deathy/gothy (no offense to anyone!) ).

I have to say, the video is just downright AWESOME!! That's the kind of stuff I want to be able to pull off someday...seamless cloning/looping. If only I had the patience to learn such skills! lol.

Wait....what?
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 06:03 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 06:04
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@Yodaman:
Thanks! Yeah, that's kinda the look/feel I was going for. The whole "Boy meets world", "Clarissa explains it all" kind of thing. The song is called "hunting for witches" by Blocparty, BTW.

@the topic in general:
One of my favorite "tricks" to do with a camera is the infinity shot. Just in case you don't know, that's when you hook up the camera to a TV or monitor, and then point the camera at said TV or monitor. The result is that the image on the screen has the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV inside the TV... and so on. Hence the name, "Infinity shot".
Its not really useful for anything, and there really aren't any practical applications for film making, but its pretty fun to do if you need to kill a few minutes and you have your camera handy.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 08:39
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Quote: "Yes, and started his own company, he didn't get hired by an existing one. Bill gates was simply exceptionally gifted in his field. Regardless, he did not receive a degree, so he *was* not a professional. Do you think that any of the companies back then would have hired him after he dropped out of his first semester? No, that's why he started his own company."


1. He was studying for a law degree, so he didn't even study in his field.
2. He started M$ instead of finishing his degree.
3. He has since gotten a honorary degree from Harvard.

One point I'd like to make is that a lot of professionals get their degree after finding a job, actually work and study at the same time to get their degrees, a lot of people do this - and IMO those are the sort of people you want to employ. Not people with little training, and not graduates just because they have a degree.

I mean put it this way Omega, if you went to a job interview, would you seriously go in there armed only with your degree, or would you show examples of your work. And what do you think would have the biggest influence?. A degree is there to get you in the door, but your portfolio will get you the job.


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Sven B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 11:57
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This really is becoming world war 3 on a forum...

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 12:08
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Ditto...

VanB, no offence, but you're a mod, can't you see the argument just got sorted out? You of all people should know not to start another one.
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Sven B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 12:26
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Quote: "You of all people should know not to start another one."

Ohw... This might even start another one

I thought this thread was going to be fun. See how far we can get using deduction to find what methods he used to achieve the layering/looping effect...

Continuing on the thing with the kylie video:
I agree with Omega. She's not wearing a single green thing, which would mean that any green can be easily made into background, even shades and tones of green in the hair of the Kylies. If they would have taken all the shots in the original environment, it would be impossible to "cut" out Kylie every frame.
I also think that the whole video is composed of multiple effects that are made totally different. As when she walks under her own arm where they use a Kylie-lookalike, or using Kylie herself as a separator of 2 different screens when the green car should have hit the pedestrians.
It might be best to look at each "special" thing seperately...

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 14:42 Edited at: 29th Jan 2009 14:43
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And how am I starting an argument?

I'm stating a couple of facts about old Gatesy then asking for Omega's opinion on what he thinks is more valuable when looking for a job. None of what I said or asked has anything to do with the original argument and I don't think I worded it badly or argumentitively (if that's a word).

My being a mod has nothing to do with this, in fact it shouldn't bloomin matter here if I'm a mod unless someone has to be moderated. If my facts are skewed then I expect anyone to call me on it, that does not mean an argument - I might not post in the thread again through embarassment though!. We're all entitled to make mistakes and we're all entitled to opinions, this is hardly world war 3, lets not blow this out of proportion!.

Also Sven, have you read this whole thread?
Drew posted a making of, which answers a lot of questions I think.


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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 16:11
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@Sven & Toasty - Threads here (and on all forums) tend to morph into other areas, but as long as they're based on the same ideas, what's the problem? It hasn't completely changed into a whole other topic, so let's not get too excited and blow it out of proportion.


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Sven B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 16:40
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Quote: "so let's not get too excited and blow it out of proportion."


I'm sorry, I posted it a little too late actually. The quarrels were almost solved, but I didn't read slow enough to catch those posts.

Quote: "Threads here (and on all forums) tend to morph into other areas"


I agree. And I think it's a shame because I really liked the theme of this thread.

I want to see more Camera work/CG video's!

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 16:46
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I know they mean well but it really annoys me when people come in (not mods) and are like "guys stop it" or "break it up".

P.S: I agree with Van B. Quite honestly, degree or not, based on your work I wouldn't hire you Omega. I get a lot of stick from 'degree people' because I've chosen to work for myself, self taught with portfolio only and no 'education' in the fields I work.

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dab
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 17:28
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Quote: "I want to see more Camera work/CG video's!"

Your wish is my demand! (I already posted this but meh)
Something I did one bored Saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKocgoveEUI

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Sven B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2009 21:22
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Lol, dab I already saw that one...
I'm guessing you cut the video in 3 vertically and pasted them next to eachother.

I found this one fun to watch lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaVsaWjzsds&NR=1

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 30th Jan 2009 02:08
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Quote: "And how am I starting an argument?"


Whether or not you've worded it argumentatively or not doesn't make much of a difference. For example, there was this one time Reed was doing the whole overhype thing in a Halo thread and I said, 'You feel really strongly about this, don't you?' as in not aggresively or anything, and a whole damn flame war erupted.
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