Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / ogre engine anyone used it?

Author
Message
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 1st Feb 2009 07:13 Edited at: 1st Feb 2009 07:40
Link
I am looking at ogre 3D right now, just wondering if anyone here has ever used this engine and what do people from this community think of it.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Roxas
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2005
Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 1st Feb 2009 13:52
Link
Its good, But it has pro and cons too like every 3d engine. But its free so you should try both Irrlicht and Ogre.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 1st Feb 2009 13:54 Edited at: 1st Feb 2009 14:30
Link
It's good in terms of 3D, but I find the quantity of dependency libraries and DLLs quite horrible.

EDIT: Also, I'm not a big fan of the config files it uses. I'd like the engine to do exactly what I tell it to do, rather than configuring itself. Sure, config files make it easier, but I found it restrictive and annoying that the configs are sort of "out of control" of the code the application. I'm aware that you can change the way it loads the configs - but only with additional work. The fact that the original config layout it unlikely to fit most cases makes me wonder what the point of it actually is.


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 1st Feb 2009 20:55
Link
i looked at ogre a lot last night, it seemes that it would be a pain just to assemble an engine.

then i stumbled upon Irrlicht and leadwerks they both got a lot of good reviews

but here is the thing that i want to know. Which one of all those engines is the most powerful in terms of rendering? i mean not just the 3 that i mentioned here, i cant find that info anywhere. I am sure all of them are better than dark basic but by how much?

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
nackidno
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Där solen aldrig skiner
Posted: 1st Feb 2009 22:43
Link
I have too looked into Ogre, seemed quite nice. But I recently stumbled upon Panda3D, haven't taken the time to read that much about it though.

"Ja, för det är jävligt manligt att ligga fosterställning i duschen och raka röven! Testa det! "
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
AndrewT
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 00:15 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 00:15
Link
From what I've heard:

-Ogre3D is the most powerful as far as graphics go, but not as fast as many alternatives.
-Irrlicht is very easy and very fast but still has limited support for features such as shadows.
-Leadwerks is a game engine rather than a graphics engine, however I've heard performance is not great on anything but fairly new hardware. It's written in BlitzMax which is obviously the root of this problem. However it is pretty powerful graphically speaking.

Back to top
Profile PM
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 01:59
Link
Quote: "It's written in BlitzMax which is obviously the root of this problem. However it is pretty powerful graphically speaking."


I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure the Leadwerks engine was *not* written in BlitzMax


Back to top
Profile PM Website
AndrewT
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 02:11 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 02:19
Link
Quote: "I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure the Leadwerks engine was *not* written in BlitzMax "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadwerks_Engine

Quote: "The engine was developed by Joshua Klint of Leadwerks Software, and was written in BlitzMax."


I know Wikipedia's not the most reliable source but I believe I've also heard it mentioned around here a few times as well. That's why it has such large support for BlitzMax.

Back to top
Profile PM
AlexI
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 02:50
Link
I tried Irrlitch but I found it didn't load some of my directx models. I also don't like its object id system.

I also tried Leadwerks, its performance as already said was low but what was worse was that the graphics were all upside down. I read it was a problem with ATI cards. But then thats allot of people


http://www.fphosting.co.uk FREE WEB HOSTING, NO Adverts
Back to top
Profile PM
AndrewT
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 02:53
Link
Quote: "I also don't like its object id system."


What object ID system? Irrlicht is object-oriented.

Back to top
Profile PM
Satchmo
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2005
Location:
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 02:56
Link
Quote: "Quote: "I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure the Leadwerks engine was *not* written in BlitzMax "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadwerks_Engine

Quote: "The engine was developed by Joshua Klint of Leadwerks Software, and was written in BlitzMax."

I know Wikipedia's not the most reliable source but I believe I've also heard it mentioned around here a few times as well. That's why it has such large support for BlitzMax."


According to wikipedia, it started as a 2d blitmax engine and then became a full blown open gl engine on its own.

Back to top
Profile PM
AndrewT
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 03:02 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 03:13
Link
Quote: "it started as a 2d blitmax engine and then became a full blown open gl engine on its own."


No, according to Wikipedia it started as a 2D BlitzBasic engine, but after the development of BlitzMax that version was discontinued, and he began working on his 3D OpenGL engine (Leadwerks).

Anyways, I found a Leadwerks thread in the Blitz showcase forum--made only for software produced with Blitz products--so I guess that clears up any debate.

Back to top
Profile PM
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 03:52
Link
Hmm, well I prefer to hear from Josh himself to clear that up Not that I don't trust you, but the Internet is full of rumours. I will be the first to admit I'm wrong if he says so!


Back to top
Profile PM Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 04:23
Link
sorry for noobish question but what is the definition of a fast engine vs powerful engine. its kinda abstract to me right now.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Rampage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 05:30
Link
Quote: "Leadwerks Engine first began as a 2D render/physics engine for the Blitz Basic programming language"

Its made in C++ I am certain. No way in Blitz.


"Welcome to the forums, MasterXMP. Your game looks like garbage..." - Game Maker
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 09:56
Link
I'm also fairly certain it's not coded in BM - it provides a module for BM usage, but that does not mean it's made in BM.

Besides, why would BM people buy a module for BM if the engine is made in the same language? Surely all the rendering functionality it provides would already be available in BM if that were the case?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
monotonic
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Mar 2006
Location: Nottinghamshire, England
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 10:17 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 10:19
Link
Leadwerks was written in BMax, there was talk of porting it to C++ but that was talk and who knows if it will come into fruition. I believe the problem with ATI drivers has been resolved.

Quote: "Besides, why would BM people buy a module for BM if the engine is made in the same language? Surely all the rendering functionality it provides would already be available in BM if that were the case?"


Because the LWE contains some advanced rendering functionality (amongst other things) that the average bedroom coder cannot do or hasn't got the time to do. It's like saying why would anybody buy any software at all when they have the tools to create their own software, VS Express is free now don't buy Maya or 3DS Max just write your own.

As for the high-end computer requirements, it requires a graphics card that has been around now for over 3 years (£40), so it's not asking for much. I'm running a Geforce 8800 GT 512 Mb (not the best in the world) and I get around 50-55 FPS on the Island scene, and sometimes it's rendering 1 million polys, including high quality dynamic shadows, hq dynamic lighting, max filtering, post processing effects such as god rays, bloom, motion blur etc.....

WARNING! The author of this post is most probably drunk or asleep.
Back to top
Profile PM
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 10:20 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 10:22
Link
Quote: "Because the LWE contains some advanced rendering functionality (amongst other things)"


Yes, but where is it getting that from? If it were coded in BM, surely that would require manually calling GL etc. if the features aren't already in BM

Quote: "As for the high-end computer requirements, it requires a graphics card that has been around now for over 3 years (£40), so it's not asking for much"


Lots of people don't have SM3 cards, and very few will upgrade to play a single game. It greatly limits the potential 'market' for any game


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
monotonic
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Mar 2006
Location: Nottinghamshire, England
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 10:51 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 10:54
Link
Quote: "Yes, but where is it getting that from? If it were coded in BM, surely that would require manually calling GL etc. if the features aren't already in BM"


I fail to see your point, just becuase they have access to the OpenGL API doesn't mean that they have the skill/time to create a system as powerfull as LWE. Creating a graphics rendering system isn't just about calling functions, there is other stuff involved too.

Why use GDK/DBP when we have access to DX in C++, why use DX/OGL when we could write our own API. Infact why use Windows/Linux/Mac OS when we could write our own OS, while we're at it why use PCs when we could build our own computers and build our own generators to power them running of our own petrol made from oil we drilled for ourselves. It's called progress, if all humans had to start out life a cave dweller then discover fire and figure out how to use weapons everytime, then we would still be bashing things with clubs shouting ugh..ugh. I would just like to express that I don't mean this to be offensive I'm just trying to make a point, and making a point on the internet can often be mistaken as a personal attack.

Quote: "Lots of people don't have SM3 cards, and very few will upgrade to play a single game. It greatly limits the potential 'market' for any game"


True not everybody does have an SM3 capable card, but anybody who is serious about gaming and wants to play games with next/current gen graphics will have. Games are being released from world leading companies with equal requirements.

WARNING! The author of this post is most probably drunk or asleep.
Back to top
Profile PM
AndrewT
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 12:24 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 12:25
Link
Quote: "surely that would require manually calling GL etc. if the features aren't already in BM"


Did you read what I posted earlier? BlitzMax provides full access to OpenGL via a module, meaning you can manually call GL as so:



Quote: "Surely all the rendering functionality it provides would already be available in BM if that were the case?"


BlitzMax itself is just a programming language, similar to C++ and FreeBASIC, and it actually doesn't offer any built-in rendering functionality. However it does have an OpenGL module, which Josh used to create Leadwerks.

Back to top
Profile PM
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 12:31 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2009 12:33
Link
Quote: "Did you read what I posted earlier? BlitzMax provides full access to OpenGL via a module, "


You didn't say that - you said "and he began working on his 3D OpenGL engine (Leadwerks)." which in no way implies BM has full GL access at all.

Either way, I stand corrected (to an extent) regarding it being made in BM. I can't say that's an especially attractive 'feature' though, in fact being made in BM puts me off it totally (along with the fact that it has a strange keyword-like highlighting inside MSVC, what's the deal with that?)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Roxas
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2005
Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 15:30
Link
Leadwerks is in BlitzMax. End of story, Also irrlicht is imo better than ogre. I forgot to say that.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:10
Link
Irrilcht sure sounds like a good engine. I decided to start learning C++ so i can Use irrilcht eventually. installed visual studio and stuff,

Second day and i still cant get a simple Hello world program to work.
C++ is just confusing and i don't understand any of it (especially the syntax)

visual basic is a lot easier.

I remember a while ago, i was looking at some of these engines, and a lot of them (including irrilcht) were avaliable for visual basic as well.

My question is, are these VB modes for these engines have lower potential because its working with VB? I am assuming they are slower and less powerful with VB than C++

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:15
Link
It depends. Working with VB can actually make things more difficult to understand, since some things need to be more verbose to fit the language and syntax (I believe that's true of Irrlicht's VB.NET wrapper, for instance, as well as managed DirectX).

Otherwise though, I don't think there's less "potential", but I don't think it's as straightforward


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:24
Link
Quote: "True not everybody does have an SM3 capable card, but anybody who is serious about gaming and wants to play games with next/current gen graphics will have. Games are being released from world leading companies with equal requirements."


People still wanting to play with Geforce 5xxx cards will just be out of luck!

Seriously, I was unable to play the bulk of games I wanted about 2 years ago with a Shader Model 2 card

"I acctually quite like this site. And noone will know because this is a secret..." - Anonymous
Shhdb.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:24
Link
i am more used to VB and C++ is very different and the syntax of the language is a lot harder to understand (for me)

soo Irrilcht in VB would be just as fast as in C++?

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:47
Link
Hard to say. My instant reaction is that it'd be slower, because although the engine is native code, your app will be slowed down by the managed/interpreted events loop (and any other logic on top of it).

Can't say though, you need to try it. If it's modern VB (i.e. VB.NET) I assume it can't be too slow - after all, XNA pulls it off with DX+C#


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 2nd Feb 2009 16:51
Link
i was just looking at some stuff on irrilcht VB, I think they discontinued it.

that sucks

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Don Malone
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Apr 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 13:03 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2009 13:06
Link
Not discontinued, but changed development direction.
Quote: "
Irrlicht.NET
Irrlicht.Net is no longer developed or supported, Irrlicht.Net Cross Platform is a much more complete wrapper. Please ask your C# related questions on their forums first."

with the main focus being
Quote: "Irrlicht.Net Cross Platform is a much more complete wrapper.
"


Just follow the link to the forum
http://irrlichtnetcp.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/

[edit] The forum looks like it has not had much activity lately though.


Marx Brothers and Dark Basic Professional Forever
Back to top
Profile PM Email
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 13:45
Link
is it as fast as the regular irrilcht? (for VB at least)

I tried learning C++, after 2 days, cant even get a hello world to work.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
dark coder
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 13:54
Link
Quote: "I can't say that's an especially attractive 'feature' though, in fact being made in BM puts me off it totally (along with the fact that it has a strange keyword-like highlighting inside MSVC, what's the deal with that?)"


Agreed, I assumed it was made in C++, but being OGL only put me off first.

Quote: "I tried learning C++, after 2 days, cant even get a hello world to work."




Back to top
Profile PM Email
monotonic
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Mar 2006
Location: Nottinghamshire, England
Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 14:32
Link
Without getting anybody's back up here, but I don't see what the problem is with BMax. Fair enough C++ is faster (by how much I'm not sure) BMax is not an interpreted language it is actually a compiled language, the BMax code is converted into Assembler code then assembled using a commercial assembler. And from my tests it is pretty darn fast, again if used properly.

As for the OGL only thing, I don't see the problem here either. OGL is supported over a greater number of systems, and Josh has said he is thinking about creating variants of the engine allowing you to target consoles and different OS's. This is a little while off yet, but it's in the pipeline. The graphics card companies have finally got their act together and now provide full support for OGL extensions. I'm running OGL under Vista witgh no problems what so ever, I know there was a thing about Vista not supporting OGL blah..blah but it works for me and many others.

As stated above I get good FPS with a scene that is specifically intended to stress test the system with maximum settings on a low-mid spec graphics card. Plus I'm currently prototyping my game using BMax as the development language, and will probably end up using BMax as the final development platform because it is giving good results.

This makes me seem like a LWE fanboi, but I assure you I'm just confused about the reasons (or lack of) for disliking products.

WARNING! The author of this post is most probably drunk or asleep.
Back to top
Profile PM
Allan Hambrick
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd May 2008
Location:
Posted: 3rd Feb 2009 20:11
Link
BMAX is really just an abstraction of GCC. Code is written in BMAX which is converted to GCC and then compiled. In fact you can inline C++ code if you want. BMAX is nothing like DBPro or Blitz3d under the hood.

Allan
Back to top
Profile PM
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-06-07 20:07:39
Your offset time is: 2025-06-07 20:07:39