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Geek Culture / Need feedback on some designs.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:06 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 20:38
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Ok, so I'm going to start selling T-shirts, tote bags, hoodies, etc, on my website. (Once I finish configuring my store, of course.) I just wanted to get a little feedback on some of the designs. I have mock-ups of a couple of the T-shirts, and I'll have more made ready later. For some of them, I'll just post what it says on the shirt. Let me know what you think!
ALL DESIGNS ARE COPYRIGHT © 2009 THREE SWORDS PRODUCTIONS, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. THESE DESIGNS ARE THE SOLE PROPERTY OF THEIR ORIGINAL CREATOR, JOHN H. WETZEL IV, A.K.A. OMEGA_GAMER_89.

EDIT: Put the PETA shirt back up, seeing as I couldn't find any copyright notice on that other sight.




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BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:32 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 05:40
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They seem pretty basic, and a tad bland if I'm honest. The problem is, is that there are millions of T-Shirts available on the internet with a joke on them. If you wanted to sell something, you should really include a little cartoon or something.

I think the text is way too big also, and they just seem really rushed.

Quote: "
ALL DESIGNS ARE COPYRIGHT © 2009 THREE SWORDS PRODUCTIONS, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. THESE DESIGNS ARE THE SOLE PROPERTY OF THEIR ORIGINAL CREATOR, JOHN H. WETZEL IV, A.K.A. OMEGA_GAMER_89."

What are you copyrighting? These jokes have most likely been done before.

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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:42
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Quote: "ALL DESIGNS ARE COPYRIGHT © 2009 THREE SWORDS PRODUCTIONS, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. THESE DESIGNS ARE THE SOLE PROPERTY OF THEIR ORIGINAL CREATOR, JOHN H. WETZEL IV, A.K.A. OMEGA_GAMER_89."


Rofl. Sorry, that just made me laugh a little Good luck with the store though.


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:45 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 05:49
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Quote: "They seem pretty basic, and a tad bland if I'm honest."

True, they are pretty basic. But these are just early mock-up designs. I really want feedback on the jokes, more than the actual layout or look, because I'll be adding more to them as I go along. Some, however, are best left being basic. For example, I have a shirt that I got for a birthday that simply says "Stop looking at my shirt." Its simple, but its clever and funny all the same.
Quote: "there are millions of T-Shirts available on the internet with a joke on them. If you wanted to sell something, you should really include a little cartoon or something."

Again, early mock-ups. I will be adding cartoons, pictures, and the like to the final designs.
Quote: "What are you copyrighting? These jokes have most likely been done before."

Yes, I'm copyrighting the jokes. They may have been done somewhere before in some form, and I'm going top do research on that, to make sure I'm not infringing anyone's copyrights. But unless someone else has already done so, I have every right to copyright these designs. I'm stating that they are copyrighted, mainly because I don't want anyone stealing my ideas. (provided they aren't already copyrighted by someone else.)

Quote: "Rofl. Sorry, that just made me laugh a little"

Whats so funny about protecting my ideas from infringement?
Quote: "Good luck with the store though."

Thanks. I'll also be selling some 3D models, along with original art done by some of my highly-talented colleagues.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:52 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 05:59
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http://www.8ball.co.uk/tshirt/3/27066/T-Shirts/Funny-T-shirts/PETA-T-Shirt-People-Eating-Tasty-Animals/

Quote: "True, they are pretty basic. But these are just early mock-up designs. I really want feedback on the jokes, more than the actual layout or look, because I'll be adding more to them as I go along"

Well the jokes aren't really yours.... You've not really done much really. I mean there is probably about 10 minutes of work there...

Fair enough if all your jokes/designs were new. Again you have made the excuse that these are just mock ups, then why bother creating the thread just yet?

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 05:56 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 06:04
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Are you serious?! Dang it, I didn't think anyone had done that yet...
I'd never heard anyone say or reference it before, and as I said, I was going to do research. (as in, not done yet)
Darn it... guess I'll take that one down...

EDIT: I look around that site, and I don't see any sign of a copyright notice. If they didn't copyright the design, I'm free to use it, or even copyright it myself. (To the best of my knowledge.) I'll take a look at copyrighting law, and make sure I can't find any copyright notice. But I believe that I'm in the clear with this one. For now, I'll still take down the PETA shirt, just to be safe.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 06:02
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The problem with this game is that it has been done over and over again. Every possible joke you can think of has most likely been done.
And no manner of "This is copyrighted" etc is going to stop somebody stealing your idea if you come up with something new.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 06:12 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 06:14
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Quote: "Every possible joke you can think of has most likely been done."

Not even remotely true. If every possible joke has been done, then there would be no comedy movies, no stand up comedians, not any jokes of any kind, because they would all be terribly old and overdone. As long as there are humans to be creative, there will be new jokes all the time.
New jokes come along with new games, new movies, new inventions, new trends, new political powers, new celebrities, new anything. Sure there is a limited amount of jokes that can be made about any one subject, but that limit is in the hundreds of trillions of possible jokes. Anytime anything new of any kind comes along, a new joke can be made about it.
Quote: "And no manner of "This is copyrighted" etc is going to stop somebody stealing your idea if you come up with something new."

No, it won't stop someone from stealing it, but if they start selling it or making money off of it, I can sue them. I could get any money they made, or at least stop them from selling my ideas. (that's assuming all goes reasonably well of course. I might overlook some detail and lose the case, but its better to be safe than sorry.)

Anyway, lets try to stay on topic, and not get into big debate about new jokes, old jokes, creativity, and the like.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 06:24 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 06:26
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Quote: "I have a shirt that I got for a birthday that simply says "Stop looking at my shirt.""



Hehehe, I have the same shirt, I got it about 3 summers ago. I love it, it lead me to start wearing a lot of smart-aleck t-shirts. I thank my mother very much for that. lol.


Errm, I thank her because she's the one (along with my sister) who bought it for me out-of-the-blue one day. Hehe.



Wait....what?
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Acid_
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 06:26
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That's pretty cool. yet again I have seen those designs before.
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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 09:20
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Quote: "Whats so funny about protecting my ideas from infringement?"


Just go to another shirt site and they won't have that super long copyright statement.

If you go to the consumerist.com you will find TONS of examples of shirt companies ripping people's ideas, and nothing is done.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 10:23 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 10:24
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Quote: "If you go to the consumerist.com you will find TONS of examples of shirt companies ripping people's ideas, and nothing is done."


So because video games get pirated, game companies shouldn't have a copyright notice on their intro screens

I think if he wrote them himself, whether they seem cliche or not, if their his own words, he has a right to place any kind of disclaimer he wants.

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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 16:41
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Quote: "So because video games get pirated, game companies shouldn't have a copyright notice on their intro screens"


This isn't piracy, is it? Piracy and copyright infringement are separate issues.

Anyways, if they are his own words, then by all means he can have an entire EULA if he wants.


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Oolite
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 17:30
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http://pleasedress.me
Look up some T-shirt designs there, the ones you have created are way too plain for most people to consider buying, it can't hurt to make them a little more spiffy.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 18:39 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 19:18
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@Jeku: Just cause they don't do it doesn't mean its not a good idea. I also saw nothing on that site about T shirts. I did a search, and less than ten results came up, none of them about t-shirt-idea theft.

@Jericho2day: Exactly, even if it won't stop it from happening, its still a good idea to have the copyright notice. Its better to be safe than sorry. What if my shirts don't sell too well on my site, but then someone takes my idea, and makes $100,000 with it on some other site? If I own the rights to the design or phrase or picture or whatever, I could sue them and get most, or even all, of that money.

@Oolite: I agree, but again, these are only early mock-ups. They will be getting much better before they actually go on sale.

EDIT: Slight modification to the Warning shirt. You may have to refresh the page to see it. (Still in first post.)

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Oolite
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 19:19 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 19:21
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^clicky
I took half an hour out and made one for me.
EDIT: the top is meant to be the back i just forgot to change the t-shirt bit...

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 19:28 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 19:29
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Quote: "I took half an hour out and made one for me."

Yes, but didn't you already have the picture of the moose? Its been in your sig for a while. I don't have any pre-made art to use in my shirts.
Besides, and I don't mean any offense, I really don't find those shirts amusing. If someone got me either of those shirts, I'd honestly return them. The one just says "respect the moose.", where's the joke in that? Whats its appeal?
The other one is somewhat better, "the moose is unimpressed with you" has potential, but I still wouldn't wear it as it is now.
I'm assuming that those are your final products for those shirts, and not early versions. As I have stated multiple times, these are just early, in-progress mock ups of the shirts I'm making. I'll admit, the ones I've shown so far aren't terribly great, but they're not half bad either. As the improve, I really think they'll be worth wearing.

EDIT: Oh, ok, the top pic is the back of the shirt. that makes more sense. I still wouldn't really want either of those shirts, though. (Still no offense.)

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Oolite
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 19:51
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I don't take offense because someone doesn't like my work, everyone has the right to an opinion and i'm not going to be the one to put them down because they don't like it.
I redid the moose in illustrator as a vector image because it was previously done in photoshop and i couldn't scale it to the size i wanted.
These are all based around games and short film ideas (where the jokes are probably more applicable after seeing or playing the media) that i am concepting, it helps boost my productivity towards the productions to throw stuff like this out, as i said;
Quote: "I took half an hour out and made one for me."

These were purely for me because i personally, would wear one of these. Mainly because it is currently an in joke with my friends. I don't expect these to become commercially viable in the future.
However, on your part, i think you would have to do something similar with your jokes, because at the moment you just have a joke printed on the shirt, adding graphics makes it more interesting to wear and look at, hence why you said (after correcting yourself.)
Quote: "The one just says "respect the moose.""

Yes, that alone is pretty pointless, but if i added the moose graphic above it, it would not become pointless and directly related to the graphic on the shirt.
These aren't my final designs, far from it. As far as i can see, i have some serious colour scheme and layout work to do on them before i'd even consider getting them printed, but then again I don't expect them to go further and if i wanted them to, i'd spend more than half an hour on it. I'd actually take time to plan the colours and layout (which i haven't done with my website.)

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 20:31 Edited at: 5th Feb 2009 20:32
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Ah, I didn't realize you meant you actually made it for you to wear when you said "made one for me". I thought you meant you made it for your site or game or whatever.

Yes, adding the graphics definitely does make it more interesting. However SOME are better left as just text. Case in point, the shirt I referred to earlier:
Quote: "I have a shirt that I got for a birthday that simply says "Stop looking at my shirt." Its simple, but its clever and funny all the same."

Shirts like those are best left simple with no images. I think that the Warning shirt may be one of them. But to be safe, I'll probably make different versions of each shirt, one with and one without the graphics.
Also, did you notice I edited the Warning shirt in my first post? I added a simple graphic which I threw together in about 5 minutes using flash. It definitely looks more interesting, and catches your attention better, but I still like the version with just the text.

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IanM
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Posted: 5th Feb 2009 20:48
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Quote: "If they didn't copyright the design, I'm free to use it, or even copyright it myself. (To the best of my knowledge.)"

That's not true.
The Berne convention says as soon as an idea has been physically created, the creator immediately gains copyright - this includes works of literature (which your slogans/jokes come under), whether written, typed or held in an image.

Quote: "What if my shirts don't sell too well on my site, but then someone takes my idea, and makes $100,000 with it on some other site?"

I'm not going to say what I think of that, as it'll probably offend.

Quote: "Piracy and copyright infringement are separate issues."

As far as I'm aware, the difference is that 'Pirate' is an emotive word and 'copyright infringer' isn't

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Jeku
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@omaga - You didn't look hard enough:

http://consumerist.com/5132571/reverend-runs-daughters-keep-stealing-this-guys-ideas

http://consumerist.com/5121182/hot-topic-steals-yet-another-design-and-sells-it-as-its-own

Just two of dozens of examples, yet nothing seems to stop the offenders.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 03:38
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The PETA one hurts my eyes.
Please change the colors a bit, and it'll look better.


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AndrewT
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The first one is too long; I can't see anyone staring at someone's chest long enough to read all that, unless it's a girl wearing it...

The second one just seems kind of...stupid. Obviously just a matter of opinion; however I'd personally feel embarassed to wear such a shirt in public.

Third one is annoying to read because of the colors.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 12:35
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Try using more original jokes, decent colours, and a decent font.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 18:56
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Quote: "The Berne convention says as soon as an idea has been physically created, the creator immediately gains copyright"

I'm not calling you a liar, but I absolutely do not believe that for a second. If that was true, I could just say any random thing, and no one would ever be allowed to say it ever again. If I said" I like TGC", under those rules, no one could ever say it besides me, since I would have the copyright.
Quote: "Just two of dozens of examples, yet nothing seems to stop the offenders."

I'll look into those. Unfortunately don't have enough time to read them right now.
Quote: "The PETA one hurts my eyes.
Please change the colors a bit, and it'll look better. "

Yeah, that one is a bit of an eyesore... I'll change it up a bit and repost it when I get the chance.
Quote: "The first one is too long; I can't see anyone staring at someone's chest long enough to read all that, unless it's a girl wearing it..."

You'd be surprised. People waste plenty of time reading shirts. I have a shirt that has small text covering the entire front, and people have read the whole thing.
Quote: "The second one just seems kind of...stupid. Obviously just a matter of opinion; however I'd personally feel embarassed to wear such a shirt in public."

I respectfully disagree. Almost everyone I showed that one to loved it. Its just a difference of opinion.
Quote: "Third one is annoying to read because of the colors."

Gonna fix that as soon as I get the chance. Kinda threw that one together haphazardly really fast.
Quote: "Try using more original jokes, decent colours, and a decent font"

Again, early mock-ups. Will be improving them, with help from people like you, as i go along.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 19:09
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Quote: "I'm not calling you a liar, but I absolutely do not believe that for a second. If that was true, I could just say any random thing, and no one would ever be allowed to say it ever again. If I said" I like TGC", under those rules, no one could ever say it besides me, since I would have the copyright."


You could have just said, "I'm not calling you a liar, but you're a liar."

Anyway, proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_copyright_law#Registration_of_copyright

Quote: "While copyright in the United States automatically attaches upon the creation of an original work of authorship, registration with the Copyright Office puts a copyright holder in a better position if litigation arises over the copyright."


And I know you shouldn't cite from an Encyclopedia, but I don't have the time to go about searching for a proper source, so you can do that if you're interested.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 19:22 Edited at: 6th Feb 2009 19:32
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Quote: "You could have just said, "I'm not calling you a liar, but you're a liar.""

No, I meant that he could be mistaken. He could honestly believe it, but it could still be wrong.
Quote: "Anyway, proof:"

Wow. That's... Completely ridiculous. I have rarely heard of anything more ridiculous in my life. Someone must've edited that page incorrectly. I'm going to look further into this, as that CAN'T be right. Everything I've ever heard, read, or been taught about copyright law is completely contradictory to that. I'm not trying to be stubborn (Although I know I am.) but I have never heard of anything like this before, and have always heard things to the contrary.

EDIT: Looked into it. You have to register your copyright to get any kind of money damages or compensation in case of a lawsuit. In other words, you have copyrights to any work you create, as soon as you create it, but they don't mean anything. You have to actually say something and register and all that in order for it to make a difference.

Anyway, lets try to stay on topic of the designs.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 19:34
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Quote: "Although I know I am."


Perhaps you are. It's true to the best of my knowledge, as that's what I've been taught. Not being a copyright lawyer, nor needing anything important copyrighted, I've not read the laws specifically.

Perhaps you're confusing trademark infringement with copyright law. I believe trademarks do need to be registered in order to be recognized.

As for the designs. I'd probably not purchase them. You might want to consider going into a specific line of shirts, like that cupcake guy, instead of agreeably generic shirts.

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Roxas
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 20:33 Edited at: 6th Feb 2009 20:33
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IanM
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 21:05
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Quote: "That's... Completely ridiculous"

Welcome to the world of 'Intellectual Property'

Quote: "You have to register your copyright to get any kind of money damages or compensation in case of a lawsuit"

Assuming you are in the US, I think that you don't need to have registered, as long as you have clearly labelled your work as copyrighted.

I've hunted around a little, and found an excerpt from the US Copyright office on what can and can't be copyrighted.
Quote: "Names, titles, and short phrases or expressions are not subject to copyright protection. Even if a name, title, or short phrase is novel or distinctive or if it lends itself to a play on words, it cannot be protected by copyright.. Related to t-shirt designs, this includes: 1. Names of products or services 2. Names of businesses, organizations, or groups 3. Names of pseudonyms of individuals (including pen name or stage name) 4. Titles of works 5. Catchwords, catchphrases, mottoes, slogans, or short advertising expressions."


Excerpt from here: http://www.t-shirttalk.com/2007/07/30/t-shirt-trademarks
There's also a direct link in there to the original but it's currently down and I haven't read it: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.html

Anyway, from my reading of that (and IANAL), I don't think that you can copyright your t-shirts, but that you need to be very careful of using other peoples trademarks - PETA for example.

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RalphY
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 21:06
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Quote: "Anyway, lets try to stay on topic of the designs."

That's a bit hard to do though, because when ever anyone makes a comment about the designs you just reply with "early mock-up". Maybe upload some not so early mock-ups and then we will be able to give more useful feedback .


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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Feb 2009 21:25
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Quote: "I've hunted around a little, and found an excerpt from the US Copyright office on what can and can't be copyrighted."


Interesting. Then you may want to trademark your shirts, which could be how that cupcake guy has a case.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 03:36
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Quote: "If I said" I like TGC", under those rules, no one could ever say it besides me, since I would have the copyright."


You can't protect people from "saying" your quotes with copyright law. You can trademark a phrase but people are still allowed to say it. I think you need to do some research


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Vickie
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 03:48
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I just knew this whole post was going to go bad from the first reply.. LMAO!!!

HAAHHAHA!!! OOooO I've got tears in my eyes~

Always~
Vickie

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Alucard94
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 09:38
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Quote: "I just knew this whole post was going to go bad from the first reply.. LMAO!!!

HAAHHAHA!!! OOooO I've got tears in my eyes~
"

Well that's a constructive post.

The jokes are okay, I don't find them funny but I guess one or two people would and I can't really say anything to the design because you keep saying these are "early mock-ups" as some sort of excuse.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 10:56
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Quote: "I don't think that you can copyright your t-shirts, but that you need to be very careful of using other peoples trademarks - PETA for example."

Aw, crap... Oh well then. I'll just have to do what I can.
Quote: "That's a bit hard to do though, because when ever anyone makes a comment about the designs you just reply with "early mock-up". Maybe upload some not so early mock-ups and then we will be able to give more useful feedback"

Yes, I guess that's true. I'm trying to get more done on these, but I don't have a lot free time to do it in. I'll get on it asap.
Quote: "Interesting. Then you may want to trademark your shirts, which could be how that cupcake guy has a case."

That could work, but I think trademarking of any kind costs money. I know that patents are hella expensive...
Quote: "You can't protect people from "saying" your quotes with copyright law."

Yes, I know. I was being overly dramatic to try and prove a point.
Quote: "I just knew this whole post was going to go bad from the first reply.. LMAO!!!"

...... Um... Why is nay of this funny?
Quote: "The jokes are okay, I don't find them funny but I guess one or two people would"

Yeah, it is kinda simple humor. But I've shown/told a lot of people about these shirts, and they think they're pretty good. I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything, I'm just saying that people do like them.
Quote: "and I can't really say anything to the design because you keep saying these are "early mock-ups" as some sort of excuse."

I'm not using it as an excuse, I'm only saying it because people keep repeatedly reacting like these are the final designs. I'm just trying to make people understand that these are unfinished concepts.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 19:57
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The thing is, Omega... what do you want us to comment on if they aren't the final designs?

We understand they are unfinished concepts... and that's why we're giving you criticism- so you can make the finished product better.

At least, that's why I believe you posted these unfinished concepts, right? To get feedback so you can make the best T-Shirt possible when it is finished.

If you just made this thread to show unfinished concepts, and your not accepting criticism... well, that's a little bit useless isn't it?


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 20:17 Edited at: 7th Feb 2009 20:30
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Quote: "what do you want us to comment on if they aren't the final designs?"

Quote: "that's why we're giving you criticism- so you can make the finished product better. "

you just answered your own question.
Quote: "At least, that's why I believe you posted these unfinished concepts, right? To get feedback so you can make the best T-Shirt possible when it is finished."

Yes.
Quote: "If you just made this thread to show unfinished concepts, and your not accepting criticism... well, that's a little bit useless isn't it?"

I'm going to show the shirts as they progress. Yes, right now I only have the unfinished concepts,but I'm working on them. Honest. And I am taking people's criticism into consideration. Although, mostly I've only gotten "I like the joke" or "I don't like the joke" instead of "I think you could make the joke better if you...".
I recently upgraded my PC to Vista 64 bit, and I'm still in the process or re-installing all my software and transferring all my documents. I'm almost done with all that, so I'll be working on the shirts soon. I'll post an update in an hour or so.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 20:31
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Quote: "Although, mostly I've only gotten "I like the joke" or "I don't like the joke" instead of "I think you could make the joke better if you..."."


Well maybe that's because we're scared you'll copyright our idea if we improve your jokes Kidding.

Frankly I hate T-Shirts with any kind of words or name brand on them, so I wouldn't buy these now. I probably would have considered when I was in high school though. I look forward to seeing the final versions to make a final judgment.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 21:12
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I just got a shirt for Christmas that says:

I never finish anyth

Have a look at www.thinkgeek.com. They have some really cool, funny, original shirts.


a.k.a WOLF!
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