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Dark GDK .NET / Dark GDk vs Dark GDK.Net --- The Pros and Cons of Each

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natescham
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 01:50
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What does everyone think of the pros and cons of bith Dark GDK and Dark GDK.Net?

I think this would be an interesting topic.

Thanks
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Hayer
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 16:18 Edited at: 7th Feb 2009 16:19
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.NET for tool development and GDK for the game it self.

Thats how im doing atm. Main reason;
DGDK supports DarkAI and DarkPhysics.

Spread your games!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=108800&b=5
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Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 7th Feb 2009 16:35
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DarkAI and DarkPhysics will support .NET later... (I hope)

Niels Henriksen
www.tales-of-the-realms.com
if Microsoft can sell software with bugs, so can I.
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Cloggy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2009 21:32
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For me the switch from DBPro to DGDK.Net is a much easier one to make than to c++ and the DGDK.

I'm sure lots of people will say c++ is much more powerful. I'm not arguing with that I just feel that people moving to VB is a much more simple and comfortable progression.

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Hayer
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Posted: 9th Feb 2009 18:53
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Well, C# and VB.Net is nearing the speed of C++ more and more.
And both, VB and C# is much more productive than C++.

Spread your games!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=108800&b=5
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APEXnow
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 13:36
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... And besides, I'm working on DarkAI as we speak. DarkPhysics will come later as this is a much bigger plugin, requiring more samples etc.

Paul.


---- The Meridian Culmination ----
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Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 11th Feb 2009 16:40
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@Paul - dont make an grown man cry.... but hurry up

Niels Henriksen
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if Microsoft can sell software with bugs, so can I.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 05:35
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LOL< I'll do my best Niels


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 14:31 Edited at: 18th Feb 2009 14:32
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as this product matures, and I can focus more on design and task coding, and less on "re-inventing the wheel" due to shortcomings or lack of features, I will revisit the game programming world. Until then I will hang out on the periphary and observe. Thats not "blaming tools" moaning, just theres not enough time

Hope everyone is well

[href]mod2software[/href]
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Shadow Fan 0
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Posted: 4th Mar 2009 21:50
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I'm just happy that DarkGDK.NET is Object-Oriented. That always kind of bothered me about DarkGDK. Both are excellent products however and are very useful.

"...The Protoss do not run from their enemies. Aiur is our homeworld, it is here that we shall make our stand!" -Aldaris
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 5th Mar 2009 00:26
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I have to agree with you, Shadow.

It is nice to have OOP with the features of DBP. I can express adequately how limiting the "feature" of not being able to include a Type within a Type was in DBP. With DGDK.Net I am finding my code is much easier to compartmentalize and understand.

It has also inspired me to finally finish a user control for .NET that I started over a year ago. Drop it in a project, set a directory to look in, and add a few assemblies containing Interfaces, and you instantly have a program that will load and use plug-ins. I have some great plans for a few DGDK.Net based programs using this.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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Diggsey
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Posted: 5th Mar 2009 20:01
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Quote: "I can express adequately how limiting the "feature" of not being able to include a Type within a Type was in DBP."


You CAN have a type inside a type...

[b]Yuor signutare was aresed by a deslyxic mud...
BOX2D V2 HAS HELP FILES! AND A WIKI!
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 5th Mar 2009 22:24
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sorry.... it believe it was an array of Type in a Type that you can't have. I just remember there was a problem with that somewhere. At one point it was a big frustration I had with DBP.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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KraHen
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 19:11
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There`s an OOP wrapper for DarkGDK
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APEXnow
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 23:15
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Aye


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 14:07
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Quote: "And both, VB and C# is much more productive than C++."


That's an interesting statement. More productive as in more things happening with the languages themself, or more productive in terms of your own work?

In the latter case, all it comes down to is experience and knowledge. Most people I know that really dive down into C++ never go back, once the jargon and abbreviations settle in the subconscious.
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 06:29
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Quote: "More productive as in more things happening with the languages themself, or more productive in terms of your own work?"


More productive as in: you typically have to write less lines of code to accomplish a task in VB.Net or C# than you do in C++.

That is why C++ is considered a lower level language than the .Net languages.

The .Net languages are to C++ what C++ is to ASM.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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Diggsey
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 19:57
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MoomanFL
Not really, it just depends what libraries you have for each. A piece of code using no libraries in C# will be the same number of lines as one in C++, because they share the same basic syntax.

[b]Yuor signutare was aresed by a deslyxic mud...
BOX2D V2 HAS HELP FILES! AND A WIKI!
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 03:43
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Try making a windows app in C#, then make one in C++ where you don't have an event manager. Yes, you can get libraries that do some of that for you... but then that reduces productivity as you try to find what you need and get it set up to use.

In C# and VB.Net that stuff is just... there. Right out of the box.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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Shadow Fan 0
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 03:44
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I think we should go back to raw Machine Code *sarcasm*

"...The Protoss do not run from their enemies. Aiur is our homeworld, it is here that we shall make our stand!" -Aldaris
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 03:50
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Nah... I don't care what people use, as long as they are having fun using it. Really all it comes down to is using the language that you are comfortable with as long as it will do the job you want in a satisfactory manner.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 18:52
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In my opinions, .NET is a great starter. I tried to switch from DBPro to C++ with DarkGDK, it didn't go so well. As a beginning programmer, C++ is too much for me. C# however is a great language for more of a beginner and it will teach you several of the aspects that will also be present in C++. Object-oriented programming is a BIG one of these. However, the DarkGDK package with C++ is going to get you the most, it just takes more to learn and get used to.


DBRemake: Space Invaders
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Diggsey
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 19:36
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@MoomanFL
Exactly, using windows forms, which is: A LIBRARY

[b]Yuor signutare was aresed by a deslyxic mud...
BOX2D V2 HAS HELP FILES! AND A WIKI!
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MoomanFL
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Posted: 21st Mar 2009 09:48
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Finding and installing a library, as a pointed out, is much different than having the ease of use out of the box.

The question that brought that up was one of productivity. You will be more productive with the inherent ease of use in .Net languages, than you will if you have to track down, install, and learn to use a particular library that may or may not have all the functionality you want.

That is why C# and VB.Net are considered RAD languages and C++ isn't.

Design documents?!? What design documents??? I thought we were just going to wing it!!!
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AlexI
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Posted: 21st Mar 2009 19:02 Edited at: 21st Mar 2009 19:02
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Who cares

Use C# & VB if you want to knock together an application quickly and cheaply.

Use C++ if you want to have full control over your application and a powerfull syntax.

They are both productive, one maybe more productive than the other but this is on a case by case basis. Overall you cannot compare.


http://www.fphosting.co.uk FREE WEB HOSTING, NO Adverts
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Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 07:42
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@Shadow Fan - Cant we just use Assembler instead?

@AlexI - Why do you then compare But yes... its up to the person what language he (or she) want to use...

Niels Henriksen
www.tales-of-the-realms.com
if Microsoft can sell software with bugs, so can I.
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Shadow Fan 0
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 22:06
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Quote: "@Shadow Fan - Cant we just use Assembler instead? "


Never! Assembler is for the weak and lazy! *more humorous sarcasm*

Actually I found Assembly Language to be a lot of fun during the course I took on it. My preference is still C# though.

"...The Protoss do not run from their enemies. Aiur is our homeworld, it is here that we shall make our stand!" -Aldaris
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AlexI
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 23:25
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Quote: "@AlexI - Why do you then compare But yes... its up to the person what language he (or she) want to use...
"


Quote: "Quote: "And both, VB and C# is much more productive than C++.""



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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Mar 2009 13:36
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Can we please keep this thread to the topic. Other language comparative discussions, please use the Geek Culture or Programming Talk forums, thanks

Paul.


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Holy Cow Coder
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Posted: 28th May 2009 16:41
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IMHO it all comes down to the difference in Managed Code vs. Native execution. If you use the .Net framework you have to include all of the redist files in your setup, whereas, if you use native executable code, you don't have to redist the framework files for the program to work.

"The Dark Side Clouds our vision...Only the Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the Senate is, multiply our enemies will." Master Yoda, Episode II.
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Amnzero
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Does not matter much. You can use VC++ .NET, and have the best of both worlds. I have not used .NET yet. (I am trying to decide if it is worth the money... ) If it proves to be as restrictive, as DGDK is than I will have to say no, but I can not see the DGDK.NET not allowing you full access to the Framework. This means there are a ton of things you can easily implement into your game that are built into the framework, as well as from third partys.

With DGDK you have huge problems with librarys. Some functions you want are in MFC, and some are in the Windows SDK, but you cant include MFC headers if you include Windows headers or you get linker errors. Of course Windows headers are referenced in DGDK for some reason...If you try to get around the downfalls of DGDK by accessing D3D directly you run into other headaches. So on and so forth.

If anyone can tell me you have full reign over .NET librarys I will scoop up .NET in a heartbeat, Just to escape the DLL hell I have to fight with daily using DGDK.

[ Amnzero ]

if(enemy == troll) runAway();
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Holy Cow Coder
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 16:02
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@Amnzero: I use a hybrid version of the .net GDK, I employ DGDK.NET components alongside normal visual components of my programs, thus creating forms and such that will function with or without the DGDK.NET framework up to a certain point, then the framework eventually gets called into action. So, yes, you have full functionality of .Net with the DarkGDK.NET version. I bought it with the same hesitation that you have, and have been very pleased with the ability to use it as I will. It is definitely worth the investment, if you know how to use the languages sufficiently. I also use the DLL creator and use custome headers in DGDK C++ version to implement my own items as needed. I realize not everyone can do these things, but I have 26 years of programming experience, and am working on 2 different IT degrees in college right now. But, yes, anyone can learn to use these tools easily enough. I taught myself C without so much as a compiler that worked ( the system I had wouldn't run the compiler, so all my code was theoretical for several years, not enough RAM on the old Amiga 500 system. LOL ).

"The Dark Side Clouds our vision...Only the Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the Senate is, multiply our enemies will." Master Yoda, Episode II.
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Amnzero
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Posted: 9th Aug 2009 04:58
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Thanks for the heads up Holy Cow

if(enemy == Amnzero) runAway();
Amnzero->WebSite = L"http://neovance.com/";
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