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Geek Culture / HS Computer Programming Class

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AndrewT
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 00:16
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So my high school just started this computer programming class, and since I'll be picking my classes soon I've considered trying it out. However it's very basic--it teaches Python and doesn't get much farther than basic text-based card games and what not. However it would obviously be very easy for anyone with a year or two of programming experience. So I wanted to know, would it be good idea to take this class if I'm thinking of getting a degree in comp sci, even though it would be an easy A for me? I mean, would it look good to an IT school or something if I had taken a class in computer programming in HS?

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 00:53
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Bloody hell, even at sixth form high schools in my area don't go beyond Powerpoint in either ICT or Systems and Control.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 00:56
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If you want to do programming, familiarity with any language is always good. If you just want general IT work, (tech support, network admin, etc..) then Python isn't really key. Personally, I'd take the course. I took any language offered and Python still has some practical use today, but don't ask me what it is. Apparently EVE online uses Python for their server.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 01:06
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Frets on Fire runs on Python...

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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 01:15
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There are tons of jobs asking for Python experience, even places like Google (last time I checked). It will definitely only help you if you can master it


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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 01:23 Edited at: 13th Feb 2009 01:23
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Google uses python, or did at one point I believe.

EDIT: Didn't read Jeku's post.
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AndrewT
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 03:03
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Thanks for the responses. Sounds good. I guess I'll probably be taking it then.

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Venge
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 05:05
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Blender uses Python scripts.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 05:20
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Quote: "it teaches Python "


A highschool teaching a relevant language for a change? TAKE IT!!!!

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Quirkyjim
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 22:28
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I apologize if you've already made your decision, or if this is irrelevant to revive a dead topic, but I've seen many places that praise Python as a beginner language - at least.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 22:36
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Quote: "I've seen many places that praise Python as a beginner language - at least."


Yep, and that's just the problem--I'm not a beginner, so this class would probably be very simple for me. I was just curious as to whether or not it would look good to tech schools if I had taken a programming class.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 23:46
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My friend is a network admin and he's gotten to do more programming than I have. He's always having to write a script or something, so if you can show you have some experience with programming there's no telling where it may come into play. Easy or not, if you like programming you should take it I think.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:00
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Quote: "Yep, and that's just the problem--I'm not a beginner, so this class would probably be very simple for me. I was just curious as to whether or not it would look good to tech schools if I had taken a programming class."


Not only would it be helpful, it would actually be useful too. Python isn't just for beginners, it's actually a very good language. You can write games, utilities/tools, operating systems (though none have been completed afaik), websites, etc in Python. Not many high level languages can make a claim like that.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:14
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Quote: "Python isn't just for beginners."


Ya, but this class is. The teacher told us that we don't even have to know what computers are to take this class. There are NO prerequisites, and it doesn't get much further than the basics of programming in general.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:20
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An operating system in Python? You sure? Isn't Python interpreted? Does it even have pointers?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:30 Edited at: 15th Feb 2009 00:32
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That might be why the project was cancelled!

Actually, I don't know the details, but there was a project called unununium, but the site and wikipedia entry are gone, so there's no info on it. (Thanks wikipedia for deciding for the world what's important and what's not).

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2004-July/003220.html

Anyway, about the class. You could take it and just see what happens. If it's boring, the teacher may well let you do your own python learning and allow you to work on your own python related projects. I'd talk to the teacher face to face and get her lesson plan, then you'll know if you can learn something from it. Anyway, don't skip the class if you think python's useless, cuz it's a very cool language, but feel free to skip it if you think it'll be below your level

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:31
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It strikes me as a waste of resources to make an OS in an interpreted language. Let me put it this way; would you write one in DBC?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:34
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Considering you can get a computer with 16gb of memory and 4 cpu cores, I don't see how it makes much difference. The system could be made a lot more secure and stable if built right. The thought crossed my mind to develop something completely and utterly disregarding system requirements, just for the sake of it being future proofed.

But of course, I know it'd probably be like a guy dreaming of building his own super-tanker

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:36
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Oh, I agree that interpreted languages are the way forward in stability. I just don't think it's a very good idea for operating systems to use them in their cores. Especially considering how slow some systems are anyway!

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:47
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Quote: "Oh, I agree that interpreted languages are the way forward in stability. I just don't think it's a very good idea for operating systems to use them in their cores. Especially considering how slow some systems are anyway!"


The thought came in passing watching Sci Fi. You know, when the PC displays it has 15exobytes. I was like, wouldn't it be cool to develop that OS?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:51
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How exactly would it be more stable?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:54
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It would only be more stable if the language itself is stable. It'd be much easier to program sloppily in C++ and have a crappy program. Similarly, it'd be much hard to program sloppily in Python and have it crashing and freezing up on your all the time (it would just fail gracefully).

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:55
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Quote: "Similarly, it'd be much hard to program sloppily in Python and have it crashing and freezing up on your all the time (it would just fail gracefully)."


I'd prefer to have a blue screen full of useful error messages than it to just fail gracefully

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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 00:56 Edited at: 15th Feb 2009 00:56
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@Jerico2Day: And what if this 'graceful' failure occurs during a very low level operation?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 01:02
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Quote: "@Jerico2Day: And what if this 'graceful' failure occurs during a very low level operation?"


As I said, the language itself would have to be stable. I'm not computer language expert or anything, so I mean, this is all just conjecture

Quote: "I'd prefer to have a blue screen full of useful error messages than it to just fail gracefully"


I'd much rather have "Invalid syntax at line 1560 in /bla/bla.bla" than c++'s cryptic messages: "HW3 .cpp(72) : error C2059: syntax error : 'return'"

Low level errors could be mitigated too, if you run applications in a virtualized way. I think it'd be cool to have a system that's virtualized and high level.

Of course, I'm no OS expert, so what I'm saying could very well be the wrong way to go about things

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feiting shadow
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 03:27
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Ummm, that C++ indicator, I think, indicates you have the wrong return type in a header file, or are using the wrong return type in your main file for a header/lib. Not that it isn't a general example... or that you simply didn't return a value. Other than that, High Level Libraries suck for decrypting, but the issues are always simple syntax or format errors... for me... 4 years ago... when I coded in C...

but anyway, of all the tutorials I've read, python has the most complex system of functions, syntax, and templates I've tried to grasp. Maybe my brain just had an error, but I thought it was an easy language until I delved into its advanced stuff. My point is, take the class, show the teacher what you can do, get an easy A being a teacher's aide. I did that in my computer classes. (also got to hack the computers, since I always told the teach what I was trying to do... showed her all the exploits )

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 06:50
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Quote: "I'd much rather have "Invalid syntax at line 1560 in /bla/bla.bla" than c++'s cryptic messages: "HW3 .cpp(72) : error C2059: syntax error : 'return'""


In C++ developers should use exception handling with try-catch-throw statements and meaningful error messages. It's the developers fault when the message doesn't mean anything useful.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 15:34
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Quote: "In C++ developers should use exception handling with try-catch-throw statements and meaningful error messages. It's the developers fault when the message doesn't mean anything useful."


I'm not saying C++ is the devil or anything. I was just saying Python's pretty neat, and having a high level language, while being much slower, can lead to a lot of cool new things on an OS level.

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David R
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 16:33 Edited at: 15th Feb 2009 16:36
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Quote: "I'd much rather have "Invalid syntax at line 1560 in /bla/bla.bla" than c++'s cryptic messages: "HW3 .cpp(72) : error C2059: syntax error : 'return'""


Most compilers will generate cryptic errors if your code sucks, regardless of language. Compilers are hard to make, let alone having decent errors at any 'depth'. C++ compilers generally have very good syntax error reporting - it's extremely rare that you would get an error which the compiler would jut shrug its shoulders at and just declare as an "unknown error"


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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 16:35
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Well yes. But honestly, are you trying to say c++ is just as easy to learn as Python

That's all my point is.

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David R
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 16:39
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Quote: "Well yes. But honestly, are you trying to say c++ is just as easy to learn as Python"


If you can be bothered to learn them, yes, C++ can be as easy to learn as Python. If you come from a background of nothing, either language is going to be difficult - you need to get your head around the general methodology/ethos of the language as a whole (how it operates, how it responds to abuse etc.), so learning C++ vs. learning Python is not as bigger deal as people think - they also contain a lot of similarities.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 16:44
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The syntax is similar and probably as easy to learn. However, building a CPP app is not the same as building a Python app.

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 19:26 Edited at: 15th Feb 2009 19:28
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Actually I learned Python in University in my 4th year, and to be honest, it was completely different than C++, so it was not easy. It's object-oriented like C++ except you can refer to classes and object instances that you haven't even created yet, and as far as I remember there's no ordering (i.e. top-to-bottom) found in most other languages. It's not something you can just walk into and pass without trying

I'm not saying that's your argument, but I wouldn't dismiss it.

Personally I *hate* languages that are not strong-typed.

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