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Geek Culture / Plane Crash in Buffalo, New York

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 21:03
From Yahoo! News...

Quote: "CLARENCE, N.Y. – A commuter plane dropped out of the sky without warning and nose-dived into a suburban Buffalo house in a fiery crash that killed all 49 people aboard and one person in the home. It was the nation's first deadly crash of a commercial airliner in 2 1/2 years.

The cause of the disaster was under investigation, but other pilots were overheard around the same time reporting a buildup of ice on their wings — a hazard that has caused major crashes in the past.

The twin turboprop aircraft — Continental Connection Flight 3407 from Newark, N.J. — was coming in for a landing when it went down in light snow and fog around 10:20 p.m. Thursday about five miles short of the Buffalo Niagara International Airport.

Witnesses heard the plane sputtering before it plunged squarely through the roof of the house, its tail section visible through flames shooting at least 50 feet high.

"The whole sky was lit up orange," said Bob Dworak, who lives less than a mile away. "All the sudden, there was a big bang, and the house shook."

Two others in the house escaped with minor injuries. The plane was carrying a four-member crew and an off-duty pilot. Among the 44 passengers killed was a woman whose husband died in the World Trade Center attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Federal investigators found the black box recorders in the plane's tail that could shed light on what went wrong, but they said the smoldering debris was still too hot to remove bodies. The recorders were on their way to Washington for examination.

No mayday call came from the pilot before the crash, according to a recording of air traffic control's radio messages captured by the Web site LiveATC.net. Neither the controller nor the pilot showed concern that anything was out of the ordinary as the airplane was asked to fly at 2,300 feet.

A minute later, the controller tried to contact the plane but heard no response. After a pause, he tried to contact the plane again.

Eventually he told an unidentified listener to contact authorities on the ground in the Clarence area.

Erie County Emergency Coordinator David Bissonette said it appeared the plane "dove directly on top of the house."

"It was a direct hit," Bissonette said. "It's remarkable that it only took one house. As devastating as that is, it could have wiped out the entire neighborhood."

The 74-seat Q400 Bombardier aircraft, also known as the Dash 8, in Thursday's disaster was operated by Colgan Air, based in Manassas, Va. Colgan's parent company, Pinnacle Airlines of Memphis, Tenn., said the plane was new and had a clean safety record.

The nearly vertical drop of the plane suggests a sudden loss of control, said William Voss, a former official of the Federal Aviation Administration and current president of the Flight Safety Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group.

Voss suggested that icing or a mechanical failure, such as wing flaps deploying asymmetrically or the two engines putting out different thrust, might have caused the crash, he said.

After the crash, at least two pilots were heard on air traffic control messages saying they had been picking up ice on their wings. "We've been getting ice since 20 miles south of the airport," one said.

Ice on the wings of a plane can alter aerodynamics and interfere with lift and handling. The danger is well known among pilots.

In general, smaller planes like the Dash 8, which uses a system of pneumatic de-icing boots, are more susceptible to icing problems than larger commuter planes that use a system to warm the wings. The boots, a rubber membrane stretched over the surface, are filled with compressed air to crack any ice that builds up.

A similar turboprop jet crash 15 years ago in Indiana was caused by icing, and after that the NTSB issued icing recommendations to more aggressively use the plane's system of pneumatic de-icing boots. But the FAA hasn't adopted it. It remains part of the NTSB's most-wanted safety improvements list.

The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team of investigators to Buffalo. The Department of Homeland Security said there was no indication of terrorism.

While residents of the neighborhood were used to planes rumbling overhead, witnesses said it sounded louder than usual, sputtered and made odd noises.

David Luce said he and his wife were working on their computers when they heard the plane come in low. "It didn't sound normal," he said. "We heard it for a few seconds, then it stopped, then a couple of seconds later was this tremendous explosion."

Dworak drove to the site, and "all we were seeing was 50- to 100-foot flames and a pile of rubble on the ground. It looked like the house just got destroyed the instant it got hit."

One person in the home was killed, and two others inside, Karen Wielinski, 57, and her 22-year-old daughter, Jill, escaped with minor injuries.

Karen Wielinski told WBEN-AM in Buffalo that she was watching TV in the family room in the back of the house when she heard a noise.

"Planes do go over our house, but this one just sounded really different, louder, and I thought to myself, 'If that's a plane, it's going to hit something,'" she told the station. "The next thing I knew the ceiling was on me."

She said her husband, Doug, was killed.

The plane was carrying 5,000 pounds of fuel and apparently exploded on impact, Erie County Executive Chris Collins said.

The 9/11 widow on board was identified as Beverly Eckert. She was heading to Buffalo for a celebration of what would have been her husband's 58th birthday, said Mary Fetchet, a 9/11 family activist.

Clarence is a growing eastern suburb of Buffalo, largely residential but with rural stretches. The crash site is on a street of older, single-family homes about 20 to 25 feet apart that back up to a wooded area.

It was the first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the United States since Aug. 27, 2006, when 49 people were killed after a Comair jetliner mistakenly took off from a Lexington, Ky., runway that was too short.

The crash came less than a month after a US Airways pilot guided his crippled plane to a landing in the Hudson River in New York City, saving the lives of all 155 people aboard. Birds had apparently disabled both its engines.

On Dec. 20, a Continental Airlines plane veered off a runway and slid into a snowy field at the Denver airport, injuring 38 people."



This is insane. I was up late last night when I heard my parents suddenly commenting on a plane crash near Buffalo, which is just a mere 15 minutes away from where my cousins live who just had their baby about a year ago.

Just thought I'd share with y'all.

puppyofkosh
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 21:30
Jesus, my cousin lives around there.
flashing snall
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 23:13
Yikes, I heard about that too, what are the odds?!?!
Well, these are the odds...
http://www.wimp.com/lovelife/

PGDO. it consumes my every waking moment, that is not already being eaten by work / school / sleeping
Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 14th Feb 2009 00:12
Quote: "my cousin lives around there. "


Are they all right?

Quote: "I heard about that too, what are the odds?!?!
"


42,000,000,000,0000 to 1 against. Just a guess, anyway.

Veron
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 00:13
Still no news on what the cause of the crash was... and being a Dash 8-400 in icy weather makes me think that it's pilot error.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 05:18
Quote: "Still no news on what the cause of the crash was... and being a Dash 8-400 in icy weather makes me think that it's pilot error."


Yeah, that's a little interesting...now news on the cause of the crash. You're most likely right though, it's most likely a pilot error.

Veron
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 05:43
Well generally with the Dash 8's being a prop aircraft, flying through ice and snow, it could have been something as simple as forgetting pitot heat or the prop-deice.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see the cause.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 05:58
Whoops, typo in my last post:

Quote: "...now news on the cause of the crash."


I meant 'no news'.

AndrewT
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 06:10
Ya know, I'm not normally very superstitious, but you have to admit...it IS pretty creepy to have the our first fatal plane crash in years, just an hour before Friday the 13th.

Veron
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 06:39
NTSB has officially reported from the black boxes that the deicing equipment was on before the decent and the pilots did mention ice build up. They put the landing gear down and then set flaps to 15 degrees.

Within seconds of setting flaps to 15 the flight director indicated severe pitch nose-up and rolls from the aircraft. The pilots then attempted to raise the gear and flaps seconds before the recording ended, i.e, seconds before the crash.

Makes me think that the flaps iced over, especially since ice build-up was mentioned.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 20:09
Quote: "Well generally with the Dash 8's being a prop aircraft, flying through ice and snow, it could have been something as simple as forgetting pitot heat or the prop-deice."

You beat me to it, though I was going to also mention that this should have been in his pre-flight checklist on a Dash 8, weather pending anyway. Maybe the weather was clearer/ warmer in New Jersey and ATC didn't give him weather conditions in Buffalo?

Quote: "Makes me think that the flaps iced over, especially since ice build-up was mentioned."

Could have also been a hydraulic issue. But my flight experience is limited to MSFS so I'm just tossing guesses out. Two plane crashes in my state in a matter of months... it seems like our state has a lot of plane crashes .

Veron
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 02:16
Quote: "Could have also been a hydraulic issue. But my flight experience is limited to MSFS so I'm just tossing guesses out."


Haha, I suppose my experience is limited in the fact that I don't fly props, but i'm pretty sure that you're right on the money.

Oh, and generally every after-start checklist before pushback at the gate has pitot heat as an option "as required", so if they did the checklist, all they would have had to do was look out the window, see the snow, and flick it on.

kuljot
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 03:22
im planning on being an airline pilot when i grow up. so i knew alot abotu airplanes because i do alot of research. what i recommend is if u every need to fly fly in a jet not a propeller plane. you see jets go really fast, more ice, so better anti ice systems. never fly with a cheap airline unless you want your children to be orphans.

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Veron
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 03:33
Props are perfectly safe, and guess what? If you want to be an airline pilot, guess what type of aircraft you'll fly about 250 hours on? That's right, a prop.

Props are fine, and have huge advantages over jets, for example, can you restart the engine of a jet by going into a nose dive and spinning if it fails? I didn't think so.

Blazed666
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 04:35
lol awesome
da power pwnerer
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 04:55 Edited at: 15th Feb 2009 04:58
Quote: "lol awesome "


Uhhhmm, what exactly were you referring to? The plane crash, or...??

Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Feb 2009 04:59
I hope he was referring to this:

Quote: "Props are fine, and have huge advantages over jets, for example, can you restart the engine of a jet by going into a nose dive and spinning if it fails? I didn't think so."


Veron
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 06:57
I hope so too...

Anyway,

BUFFALO, N.Y. – The commuter plane that crashed near Buffalo was on autopilot until just before it went down in icy weather, indicating that the pilot may have ignored federal safety recommendations and violated the airline's own policy for flying in such conditions, an investigator said Sunday.

Federal guidelines and the airline's own instructions suggest a pilot should not engage the autopilot when flying through ice. If the ice is severe, the company that operated Continental Flight 3407 requires pilots to shut off the autopilot.

"You may be able in a manual mode to sense something sooner than the autopilot can sense it," said Steve Chealander of the National Transportation Safety Board, which also recommends that pilots disengage the autopilot in icy conditions.

Automatic safety devices returned the aircraft to manual control just before it fell from the sky, Chealander said.

During a Sunday briefing, Chealander described the flight's frantic last moments, which included a steep drop and rollercoaster-like pitching and rolling.

Idiotic pilots.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 07:01
This forum loves plane crashes.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Veron
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 07:26
I hardly think that we enjoy 50 people being killed.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 09:20 Edited at: 16th Feb 2009 09:27
Lol, that was wasn't what I meant. The last plane crash that happened was also discussed here too.

Quote: "Among the 44 passengers killed was a woman whose husband died in the World Trade Center attacks of Sept. 11, 2001."


Yikes, talk about bad luck. Planes just aren't their thing.

Quote: "The 9/11 widow on board was identified as Beverly Eckert. She was heading to Buffalo for a celebration of what would have been her husband's 58th birthday, said Mary Fetchet, a 9/11 family activist."


Tragic...

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Indiana Jones
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 17:01
That is pretty scary. I hope your cousins will be alright.

I love making games but I like searching for artifacts more.
Samoz83
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 18:12
Quote: "a 9/11 family activist"

activist of what exactly?

Blazed666
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 04:54 Edited at: 18th Feb 2009 04:55
Uhm... I was referring to the plane crash =]
Alucard94
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 06:19
Quote: "Uhm... I was referring to the plane crash =]"

So you think a plane crash is awesome and you laugh at it?


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 08:20
*Gasp*[hoarse,whinyvoice]You monster![/hoarse,whinyvoice]
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 09:39 Edited at: 18th Feb 2009 09:39
Quote: "Uhm... I was referring to the plane crash =] "

Yeah, 50 people dying is so cool, don't you wish your mom or dad were on there too? That'd make it really awesome.


Veron
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 12:42 Edited at: 18th Feb 2009 12:43
I'm sure he was just being sarcastic and looking for a bit of attention.

EDIT: That said, it's not cool to even joke about that sort of stuff.

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