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Geek Culture / Attention Seekers

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:08 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 00:10
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I know one, she's dating a house mate, he's a beard with an idiot attached to it (I won't rant) but she makes a big deal out of every small thing and seems to like the attention. Though this isn't a concrete claim, most people seem to see this in her, because she always makes a huge deal out of something we witness to be small. Now, recently shes been complaining about this person people refer to as 'Pirate Boy', a guy on crutches who seems a little retarded (I mean that in the medical sense of the word), I don't know the guy personally, but he seems harmless enough.

Now, the attention seeker girl, she's been complaining about sexual harrasment, and when this has supposed to have happened she's burst into to tears when her boyfriend shows. She was even too scared to go home on her own. She seemed scared of a scrawny crippled guy, this of Jimmy in south park for a frame of reference. It sounded odd having to listen to this. This was 4/5 weeks ago, the sexual act that was supposed to have taken place then and I was present, I was talking to my friend Johann at the time, and from the corner of my eye I saw the guy use his crutch to poke her in the breast. Nothing new, some people have told him off for doing it before and he's poked me with his crutch before, normally he does it to grab somebody's attention, or at least from what I've seen. It seems this is not the first time he's done it to her and she has made a huge deal out of it.

At the time she asked me if I was willing to have my name put down for a statement with the University, I said yes (I thought I could help diffuse some of the heat and let the guy have his side of the argument, afterall, what I saw wasn't so bad. Especially as it didn't look sexual to me) Fine I was willing to do that.

This afternoon I got a phone call from the police, asking about the situation and now they want to come over tomorrow for a statement off of me. I only said 'yes' to dealing with the University, I didn't think she'd go as far as legal action. Now she seems to feel assaulted by this guy and I can't tell if she's putting it on for attention or if the guy is victimising her, given what I've witnessed, I really doubt it, but I have nothing solid to go on.

Lets put it this way, if her complaint with the police goes through he could be charged with a criminal record and would be kicked out of University, which could potentially ruin his life, and I don't want to be partly responsible for that. Yet I can't call liar on the girl either because I have nothing to back up her claim. The chances are the guy didn't know any better, I was talking to a female friend who also had him poke her in the breasts, she was embarassed, but she didn't seemed to see it as sexual at all.

I'm wondering how I should deal with this situation? I will definitely tell the truth, but how do I represent the situation properly? I and all of my friends I've spoken to believe that she's attention seeking, given past experiences.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:32 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 05:47
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I'd ask her to drop the charges and inform her that she's likely going to ruin his life for what? A breast poke with a crutch? I knew dudes who would give girls nipple twisters... This all seems harmless, and at the most, should require him to apologize to her.

If she really thinks she was assaulted, then tell the police the truth, including the part about her being a drama queen. They can sort it out.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:35
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Quote: "and he's poked me with his crutch before"


I would flatten anyone who does this to me on purpose, regardless of their phsyical handicaps. I think she has every right to claim sexual harassment against this idiot. The thing is, nobody threatened him in the past and he kept doing it--- finally he did it to someone who is going to do something about it. I wouldn't necessarily put that down as attention seeking, but merely getting the guy rightfully punished.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:41
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I agree. However, if he's likely to get kicked out of school and stuff, I don't know if that's rightfully punishing someone. I wonder if going to a school counselor or something would have been more appropriate.

That said, I still think the police should be the ones to sort it out, not you. I'd tell them the truth, if the girl wants to press charges.

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Roxas
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:45
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How did she get out of the kitchen

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Grandma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:46
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Just tell it like it is. A summary of what you just wrote would do fine. How the pigs deal with this information is out of your juristiction. If he would get kicked out of the university, that would eat up that woman from the inside. I see only positives, well, except for that guy being kicked out of the university and getting a criminal record. But hey, he might enjoy being far away from that woman from now on.

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Oolite
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 00:53
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This happened before christmas with a mate of mine from uni. Turns out he broke up with her a few days before this rape was meant to have happened. Just so happened that my flatmate was out on the lash with him the night she reported it, he had to give a sworn statement saying he was with him, soon she realised that it wasn't going her way and she was just bitter over the break up and dropped the charges.
Regarding your situation though, i'd need a little more info on 'Jimmy'. Is he mentally or physically disabled? Mental disability would mean he could get away with playing on that, if it is just physical disability it would appear that he is just doing it for attention. I mean, if he has the balls to poke someone with the crutch he's probably got the balls to felch them with his hands. I still think you should let the police see him to scare him and get her to drop the charges, that should sort him right out without ruining his life. Other than that, i'd agree with Jeku. If someone was doing that to my missus he'd get a good firm fist to the gob. Morally wrong to punch someone handicapped in the face? Not to me, its just another guy as far as i'm concerned and noone should really play on their disabilities, which is what i believe he is doing.
I think you should literally just tell the truth, 'he poked her in the breast with a crutch' isn't exactly the strongest court case (coming from someone with no experience in law). Just scare the crap out of him with the police and then explain it to your friend. She should understand that it's not the strongest case in history and drop it.
I had a needy, attention grabbing missus before. I used to invite her out on a night out, she would say no, i'd go out anyway and then halfway through the night she'd phone me saying something bad has happened. So i'd go to her house and all she could say was 'I just wanted to see you'. After the many times it happened i just couldn't be arsed to go back. God forbid if anything bad had actually happened.


I'll finish them whenever i can be bothered.
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Van B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 02:46 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 02:47
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Disability, retarded, or whatever people should know how to act in public. I got in trouble in school once for chasing a special education kid, well the head called him a kid, even though he was three years older than me. The git spat on me in the lunch line, and luckily for him the head was standing at the end. The head couldn't see past this guys condition, I'm not sure what condition causes you to eat the gray chewing gum trodden into the playground!, but the point is that if people can't show a minimal level of respect then they need to be corrected.

If the police pay him a visit, then it might prevent someone knocking his teeth out, someone who believes that people who claim to want to be treated equally shouldn't act like that. The fact that he goes for crotches and breasts is just wrong, there are far more appropriate places to touch someone to get their attention, like pretty much anywhere else.

You say he is in university, so unless we're talking about rain man here, should be capable of working out that what he is doing is wrong. She may well be a drama queen, he may well be a pervert, let the police sort it out. All you have to do is tell them what you witnessed, I don't see why you should get involved beyond that.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 03:02
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Quote: "I would flatten anyone who does this to me on purpose, regardless of their phsyical handicaps."


That's the thing, I can't be sure that it was on purpose, I didn't interpret it like that and nobody else has - he comes of as being autistic to me, except, even other girls. I've been poked by him with his crutch. She seems to blow things out of proportion, so I question whether there's actually something going on.

Maybe I should say that I think the guy's autistic, so they can check that out and see if it has anything to do with it.

Like I said to the officer over the phone, it did not look like sexual harassment to me.


Quote: "That said, I still think the police should be the ones to sort it out, not you. I'd tell them the truth, if the girl wants to press charges"


I know, but I am worried that my statement may attribute to the charges being pressed against them and him being innocent on his intentions. If so, he'd work out in the worst position and I would not want to do that to somebody.


Quote: " She should understand that it's not the strongest case in history and drop it."


'Drop it' that's the problem with her, she doesn't drop anything, she can really milk something, she seems to like the attention, for example a couple of people in our Student Union relabelled tins of beans with an edited version for a campaign and gave them out for free, they forgot to write down a list of ingredients, she has an onion allergy and sometimes companies put onion powder in their beans, so she kicked up a massive fuss. If you have an allergy, like everybody else who has an allergy, if you don't know the ingredients of something, you don't eat it, what the SU did was not discriminatory, but she claimed it to be and wanted to get somebody in trouble for it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 03:14
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Quote: "The fact that he goes for crotches and breasts is just wrong,"


Not crotches, crutches, the guy's disability reduces him to crutches - he uses his crutch to get people's attention to talk to them, when we were running a stall at the fresher's fair he poked me and my mate with his crutch.

Maybe this would be the best way to approach the police, say that I think they guy might be autistic and that he regularly uses the crutch to grab someone's attention. Maybe in the end the police will give him the benefit of the doubt and the experience should give him a nudge in the right direction, so something like this doesn't happen again. I'll just make sure that I give the police my opinion on this, even if I can't back up my feelings. Lets hope if the guy is innocent, that he has a leg to stand on.

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Airslide
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 03:21
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Quote: "she doesn't drop anything, she can really milk something, she seems to like the attention"


Sadly I've met a number of people like this, and I'm sure we'll both meet more. My brother fits this description to some extent, although he isn't usually so bad as to involve any sort of authority (such as the police). The problem is that they value themselves far above others...that is always expected to some extent, nobody is totally selfless, but some people take it to a whole new level

I think your conclusion seems pretty valid - tell them that he seems to have a disability and explain that he regularly gets attention this way. Hopefully they will consider his side. Either way, so long as your statement is impartial, you can't be blamed for whatever happens.

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 03:30
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I think Grandma is right. Just say what you said here. Then let the police deal with it from there.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 04:56
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Ohhhh, I totally read that as "crotch", not "crutch". I thought he was touching you all with his crotch

Quote: "That's the thing, I can't be sure that it was on purpose"


You said he does it all the time, so odds are it was on purpose.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 05:45
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Quote: "Ohhhh, I totally read that as "crotch", not "crutch". I thought he was touching you all with his crotch "


Lulz, my response must have been absolutely appalling in your interpretation

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 05:58 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 05:59
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Quote: "Quote: "That's the thing, I can't be sure that it was on purpose"

You said he does it all the time, so odds are it was on purpose."


I'm talking of 'in the breast' area, rather than the poking in general, I mean for me when he's done it, it has either been in the shoulder or chest.


Quote: "Ohhhh, I totally read that as "crotch", not "crutch". I thought he was touching you all with his crotch"


Lol, that gives it different meaning all together, well yes, if he was doing that, then it'd be a bigger deal. Perhaps I should have made his disability clear from the start, he can't walk properly, so he has crutches to keep him up. He walks like Jimmy from South Park.


But if y'all think my description suffices, then that's good, when I see her next, I will have to have a chat with her.

Cheers guys.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 06:53 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 06:55
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I see what you're saying... He pokes people with his crutches to get attention... He poked her to get her attention and you're not sure whether he hit her boob on purpose...

Just tell the police that... Although, it seems to me that people with disabilities get treated far more harshly than those without... On an average night out you'll see some drunk 'normal' guy grab a womans breast... and what does he get? A slap, maybe her boyfriend 'has a word' with him... If a disabled guy does it, then he's called a sexual deviant.

Quote: "Disability, retarded, or whatever people should know how to act in public."
Just because someone KNOWS how to act in public doesn't mean they always can! I work with a child who has extreme autism, he is also mute... He knows not to pull people's hair or spit on them or bite them, but if he gets in a situation, and for want of a better description, and 'his autism takes over' he can't help it... He feels bad afterwards and gets upset about what he has done, but that doesn't change the fact that at that time he was completely unable to do anything else but those things... The fact that he is unable to talk also makes it difficult to avoid situations where that happens as he can't communicate effectively how he is feeling...

Maybe because I have a sibling with a disability, I'm not as harsh as some of you seem to be, but if poking someone on the breast is not something he normally does, I'd like to think it was an accident rather than something malicious... Now if it is something that he does all the time, then yes he needs to be punished, but if this guy does have autism then his brain doesn't work in the same way as other people's and maybe having the police talk to him won't be effective at all...

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Michael P
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 11:12
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Near where I live, there's a man in a wheelchair who uses his legs to move himself along (in the chair) and he moves really slowly, but when a girl he likes comes by he gets out of the chair and chases them - pirate boy reminded me of this

The girl is over reacting - she's probably been brought up in a happy little bubble where nothing bad has ever happened to her. If I were her I'd avoid this pirate boy, but I wouldn't get that upset about it.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 12:19
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Thraxas, that's the kind of thing I feel might be up with the guy, not an extreme type of autism, but some kind,I question whether or not he knows he's being accused of sexual harrassment or that he actually did it.

Quote: "The girl is over reacting - she's probably been brought up in a happy little bubble where nothing bad has ever happened to her. If I were her I'd avoid this pirate boy, but I wouldn't get that upset about it."


She seems to be the only person effected by it, my friend Laura thought nothing of it when he did it to her. At the most she was embarrassed by it.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 13:27
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It's possible if he does have some sort of mental disability that it never occurred to him that poking a woman in the chest is any different from poking a man in the chest... And just because he did doesn't mean it was in any way sexual...

I wasn't there, so I'm just giving my opinion... Please don't think I would defend someone who genuinely was sexual harassing someone...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 13:45 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 13:46
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I'm still questioning it myself, I personally don't believe it was sexual, but I too don't have all of the facts, I know she's like and I've met the guy and have had a conversation with him (he doesn't seem so bad, just desperate to make friends with everybody) and saw one of these 'incidents' and believed it to only be minor and at the time didn't see it as sexual, but she did.

Though I'm sitting here waiting and Officer still hasn't shown up, I told him I've got to leave at 2, so I hope he doesn't take too long for him to show.

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 16:25
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If he pokes everyone in the same place, than it puts a different light on things, like if he would poke you in the chest as well then it diffuses the whole breast thing and it it comes to it, tell the police that. I thought you meant he'd poke you in the crotch, with his crutch!


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 17:21 Edited at: 14th Mar 2009 17:21
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I think the best thing you can do is just tell the truth.
That being said, I went to high school with several handicapped people, both physically and mentally challenged. I agree that people with mental handicaps do, for the most part, know what is ok to do and what isn't. If he was just poking her to get her attention, he's done nothing wrong, and most likely didn't realize he was going to offend her. However, if he was only trying to get her attention, he wouldn't likely poke her in the breast.
So, yeah, I'd say just tell the truth, but explain how you feel about the situation; that you think the girl is overreacting.

Interesting side note, when I read this topic title, I thought it meant "attention" like "attention duelists! My hair is telling me its time to begin!" and "seekers" like the Quiddich position from Harry Potter.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 17:37
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Quote: "How did she get out of the kitchen"


lol, Roxas.


If he poked her in the arm, that's one thing. But the breasts are a no-no area on girls. I would advise the girl to have the police talk to this crutch-boy, but not to press charges at this time because of the long-lasting effects it could put on anyone. Should it happen again, then by all means she should take further action.

The only time it's ok to touch a girl's no-nos, is if you're good friends on that level, you bought her alcohol at a bar and she accepted, or she twisted your nipple first.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 23:30
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The policeman didn't show today, though he said that he wasn't definitely coming, though he did say he would call me first, but didn't. So I guess I have to wait a little bit longer, not that it's a problem.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 00:39 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 00:43
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As far as I can tell, just print this. Sounds like the most honest and good thing to do. He did poke her, but he does so with everyone and most likely out of not knowing any better. Be careful, they will most likely be asking the questions, be sure not to leave ´details´ out for when you´re allowed to talk. Tell the cops you think its an attention thing, and that the guy is a retard in the medical way, but that he indeed did poke her in the breast in a non-sexual or harrassing way.

It would be absurd for the guy to get kicked out of school for one of those attention whores (excuse the French).

Of course, do make a note that you don't really know either, but just state your opinion in a way that it is vital for your answer. They don't like 'opinions'.


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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 01:54
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Just say that he did poke her in the breast, but you have seen him do the same thing to countless people of both sexes to get their attention. (or maybe to wind up.) With this in mind and from what you saw, there was almost certainly no sexual intent. After all, who pokes a girl with a metal walking stick for sexual pleasure!?

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Jane Doe
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 06:05
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Quote: "She seems to be the only person effected by it, my friend Laura thought nothing of it when he did it to her. At the most she was embarrassed by it."


So this isn't an isolated incident. This is something crutch-boy does occasionally. That being the case, he needs to learn that this behaviour is unacceptable. No one should be poked with a crutch anywhere and women particularly shouldn’t be poked in the breast. If Laura had set this guy straight, maybe he wouldn’t have done it to this girl. If this girl - or the police - set this guy straight now, maybe he won’t do it to the next girl.

And do you think that embarrassing Laura was acceptable?

Quote: "It's possible if he does have some sort of mental disability that it never occurred to him that poking a woman in the chest is any different from poking a man in the chest... And just because he did doesn't mean it was in any way sexual..."


I appreciate your willingness to exercise some tolerance for this guy’s condition, but if it’s not occurring to this guy that poking a woman in the chest is different than poking a man there, then someone needs to explain it to him in unambiguous terms. And I don’t think this guy’s intent is as relevant as the feelings of the people he’s doing this to.

Quote: "If he pokes everyone in the same place, than it puts a different light on things, like if he would poke you in the chest as well then it diffuses the whole breast thing and it it comes to it, tell the police that. I thought you meant he'd poke you in the crotch, with his crutch!"


The fact that he does the same thing to men and women isn’t relevant. You seem to be ignorant of some fundamental differences between male and female anatomy and about how women feel about certain parts of their body. Men and women also have different attitudes concerning intimacy. Touching a man in the chest isn’t the same thing at all as touching a woman there.

I’m not saying that Drama Queen isn’t overreacting, but her complaint isn’t without merit, either.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 08:20
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Quote: "Touching a man in the chest isn’t the same thing at all as touching a woman there."


I never said it was, I said if he has a mental disability he might not know it's different... And if that is the case then yes he needs to be told, I don't think that scaring him with the police is necessarily the way to go about it...

And I do think think it's relevant if he pokes everyone, regardless of gender, in the chest... If he poked men on the arm and only women in the chest, or he poked everyone on the arm and only this girl in the chest, then I think you have a case for some form of sexual harassment... otherwise, and this is just my opinion, it isn't...

Anyway, everything I have said is based on the assumption that he has a mental disability...you can ignore it all if he just has a physical disability and uses that to get away with doing outlandish things to people... Also I wasn't there and I don't have all the facts...

Personally if someone had poked me in the crotch with their crutch, I would have told them not to do it again... I wouldn't run to the police with accusations of sexual harassment... then again that may also be because I'm male and could never understand something like this happening from the female perspective...

It would also be interesting to know if a 'normal' guy who had just broken his leg poked her in the chest with crutches he was using to get around on would illicit the same straight to the police with sexual harassment claims that has happened with the disabled guy... Like I said before some people are much harsher on people with disabilities...

Quote: "No one should be poked with a crutch anywhere"
I think you've really hit the nail on the head with this... Despite his physical disability, there must be a better way for him to get a person's attention than poking them with his crutches...

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feiting shadow
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 10:46 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 10:48
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You guys don't seem to understand autism.

Here's an example from a case study... paraphrased: An autistic kid was shown a candy wrapper that appeared full. He was asked what's inside it, and he said "candy". The person doing the experiment pulled out a pencil from the wrapper and showed him that there wasn't candy in the candy wrapper. Now, the boy was asked, "If someone else was asked what was in the wrapper, what would they say is in the wrapper?" and the boy said "pencil".

I myself have had signs of autism growing up. I used to be christian, and at age 4, saw a black man for the first time. Apparently I said "Dad... how come god made people the wrong color?" I don't remember, lol... and have no racial prejudices myself, but if something wasn't what I was used to, or if someone liked potatoes or hated chocolate, I thought that was dumb. Everyone should like chocolate! They're not following their taste buds! (I was thinking)

Today, when people die, even family members, to me it's nothing more than a job opening or a person I won't see tomorrow. I don't see emotions as useful and I've spent my entire life studying them so I know how to act around people. Thanks to this minor disorder, girls like the above are nowhere near my living space.

While I am quite capable of displaying emotion, interacting, and not being a total a--hole, I wanted you guys to get a glimpse so you could have an idea of that guy's thoughts without getting so angry 'cause he poked a girl's breast. My friends (mostly gay) are quite open and grab each other all the time, men and women... and to an autistic person, they would be shocked until it's decided as acceptable (but only within that group), and otherwise, that girl's getting mad at something this boy probably doesn't even comprehend.

Imagine getting punished completely randomly for "Eating the second one when it was very clear you shouldn't!"... to a normal person, that makes absolutely no sense. So for an autistic person to do something logically ok, punishing them for it makes just as much nonsense, he's not going to understand until you relate it to some logical thing he already understands.

This may sound harsh, but please don't reproduce until you understand what I said.

Signed
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Little Bill
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 11:01
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I see no problem with this. I sometimes tap people in the shoulder area/side of the arm to get their attention. Is this sexual assault? If I were on crutches, I would probably find it easier to tap then on the leg instead of lifting the crutch all the way up to their chest, but the guy just wanted some attention from the attention seeker.
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Grandma
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 11:39 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 11:39
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Quote: "I myself have had signs of autism growing up. I used to be christian, and at age 4, saw a black man for the first time. Apparently I said "Dad... how come god made people the wrong color?" I don't remember, lol... and have no racial prejudices myself, but if something wasn't what I was used to, or if someone liked potatoes or hated chocolate, I thought that was dumb. Everyone should like chocolate! They're not following their taste buds! (I was thinking)"

That's called being a kid. Kids say the darnest things and you can't expect many 4 year-olds to understand the concept of racism or that people just are different and that is not only normal, but a good thing. Even at adult age, many people still act like that last example you gave, they feel their opinions on things are the "correct" one, and opposing ones are "invalid". I don't see why you should relate that to signs of autism.

When I was little, I said many silly things as well. Like "I can't wait to turn 18, then I can legally swear", and "will you be my brother?" said to a friend I wanted to excange my real brother for. And the ever-classic "I'm eating mosquitoes". An early example I remember was from a supermarket: "wow! she's FAT!" - screaming. That's what kids do.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 12:38 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 12:41
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If the guy is autistic, then I'm sure it'll be on his medical records, so if I bring up that I think he may be autistic or may have some kind of hidden disability, then they should be able to look that up.

I think the first thing the girl should have done is spoken to the University, as it was happening on University grounds and perhaps threaten the guy with the police - I mean that's enough to scare the guy into knowing that he shouldn't do it? If it turns out that I am right, then I smell hypocrisy on the girl's part, simply because she's helping run a hidden disability campaign (because she's epileptic...though most people aren't convinced that this is true) to give guys with hidden disabilities a break in the Uni environment.


Jane, thanks for giving a female take on it, the guy certainly should learn that this behaviour is unacceptable and that it is right for somebody to go around touching people up - and people should learn. Getting the police involved is going a bit far, given this is something going on at University there are other authoritive figures to step in.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 14:13
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I think Jane is extremely wrong, though. It is exactly the feeling of the guy doing it that is relevant. If women could sue for anything THEY feel is sexual harrasment, you'd get sued by any woman who wanted something from you for looking at their shoes. Emancipate already, will you? Next time a seemingly autist girl pokes me in the chest, I'll file a sexual harrasment complaint too - lets see how far that goes.

The guy did it without sexual intent or goals, and is known to do it to others. If thats the case, they should get the school to notify him of that fact and done. Personally, I think Laura's example is a good one - if you know its not meant bad, try to adapt to a person in need of a little understanding. If you doubt it, ask it. If you know its meant bad, sure, go to the police.


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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 16:45
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OK, so it's pretty much a given that women don't appreciate being poked in their breasts by crutches, but what I think really matters (when you cut out feelings and emotions) is whether the guy knew what he was doing was wrong and offensive to Ms. Attention Seeker. Again, from how you describe it, it didn't seem like a sexual thing to him, but as an observer, it's easy to see how others would construe it as harassment. I understand that this woman would be offended or feel harassed, but if that wasn't on the guy's mind, then what has he actually done to deserve getting thrown out of uni for? With that in mind, a lecture or a slap would have done just fine, so atleast the guy would see it's not acceptable without being punished so harshly for actions he didn't fully understand.

Seriously, HUGE multiplayer shooter just weeks away!
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 01:52
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Quote: "Kids say the darnest things and you can't expect many 4 year-olds to understand the concept of racism or that people just are different and that is not only normal"


Like when I was 4 and I asked my nana when she was going to die.

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Jane Doe
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 05:51
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Quote: "Jane, thanks for giving a female take on it, the guy certainly should learn that this behaviour is unacceptable and that it is right for somebody to go around touching people up - and people should learn. Getting the police involved is going a bit far, given this is something going on at University there are other authoritive figures to step in."


I agree that getting the police involved the first time it happened to her is going way too far. This guy’s behaviour needs to be corrected, but there are a lot of options before going to the police - especially if he does have some form of mental disability. If this guy has the mental faculties to be allowed out in society unsupervised, then he can understand that he shouldn't poke people with his crutch and it isn‘t going to take the cops to do it, as Thraxas suggests.

Quote: "I think Jane is extremely wrong, though. It is exactly the feeling of the guy doing it that is relevant."


We disagree on that point. To me, what people do is more relevant than why they do it - especially in this case. The reason I say that is because I don’t think anyone’s going to come up with a reason why this young man should be poking people.

Quote: "If women could sue for anything THEY feel is sexual harrasment, you'd get sued by any woman who wanted something from you for looking at their shoes."


I agree with that. I can't stand it when a woman wears a low-cut top to show off her, well, top, and then complains about the "pervs" staring at her. But we're not talking about looking here. We're talking about touching. There's a big difference.

I think it's laudable that most - if not all - of you want to be sensitive to this young man's condition(s) and make allowances for him. The fact is though, that there are a lot of people who aren't quite so understanding and it's just a question of time before he pokes the wrong woman and her boyfriend / husband / brother / son / whoever feeds him his crutches. You're not doing him any favours by allowing him to continue doing this.

I think Drama Queen is in equal need of a talking to. Her behaviour in going straight to the police over this insignificant incident is as inappropriate as what "Jimmy" did - if not more so. I don't know how good a friend of hers you are, Seppuku, but if you do print this to show the police - as someone suggested - print an extra copy for her.

- Jane
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 09:15
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Quote: "You seem to be ignorant of some fundamental differences between male and female anatomy and about how women feel about certain parts of their body. Men and women also have different attitudes concerning intimacy."


Well duh!

What I meant was that if he pokes people in the chest in the same spot, regardless of if they are men or women, then there may be no sexual intent whatsoever, not saying it's excusable but it's more understandable. For all we know it might not even occur to him that there are differences in how he should act around men and women and what is acceptable. You go a long way around simply agreeing with what everyone has already said.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 14:48
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I saw the guy yesterday, he seemed more 'with it' than on previous encounters, though what I saw did not seem sexual and I believe the guy doesn't understand (he hasn't seemed to understand all of the social conventions), so I'm sticking to that. So the officer can explore into that. Hunches etc. aren't exactly solid, so I'll have to avoid them, but just tell them how I feel.

I saw the officer yesterday, but he didn't have time for my statement as he was taking the girl's, so he's rescheduling me for Tuesday.

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SamHH
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 16:00
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Quote: "But we're not talking about looking here. We're talking about touching. There's a big difference."

He's touching with a crutch though, not groping or anything like that, I doubt he can get much pleasure from touching people with a crutch.


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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 21:11
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Quote: "
We disagree on that point. To me, what people do is more relevant than why they do it - especially in this case. The reason I say that is because I don’t think anyone’s going to come up with a reason why this young man should be poking people."


Of course it's inexcusable, but if he; the person who did it, didn't intend it to be sexual or innapropriate, then why get him booted out of uni with a criminal record? Yes, his actions warrant punishment, but his intentions don't.

Also, has anyone actually thought to hear HIS side of the story?

Seriously, HUGE multiplayer shooter just weeks away!
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SamHH
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 21:26
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Quote: "Of course it's inexcusable, but if he; the person who did it, didn't intend it to be sexual or innapropriate, then why get him booted out of uni with a criminal record? Yes, his actions warrant punishment, but his intentions don't.

Also, has anyone actually thought to hear HIS side of the story?"

exactly


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 22:20 Edited at: 18th Mar 2009 22:24
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Quote: "Also, has anyone actually thought to hear HIS side of the story?"


Nope, I don't know the actual side of his story, I'm basing it on what I've seen, my encounters with the guy and knowing what she's like. I imagine it'd be the job of the police to get both sides of the story, and I hope if his intent is what I've speculated, that he has something strong enough to support it. She's got witness statements, if they all say 'sexual harassment' (which mine won't...the policeman still hasn't spoken to me, but then he has other cases to deal with) then they have more weight than his word, though if say he has a medical record to back him up, then good.

I hope at the end he gets scared into learning his lesson, rather than expelled with a criminal record. If he is a genuine sexual harasser, then maybe it'd be a different story.

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Jane Doe
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 04:05
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Quote: "You go a long way around simply agreeing with what everyone has already said."


Unfortunately, in this situation, I can't develop my ideas as well as I need to. For example, I said "Men and women also have different attitudes concerning intimacy." What are those differences? How are those differences pertinent to this situation? I can't say, because doing so would entail a discussion which would be generally regarded as inappropriate for the younger forum members and which would violate the AUP.

Were I able to expound on concepts such as that, the significant differences in my perspective and opinions would be much clearer, even to those who's communication skills are at the "Well duh" level.

I was relying on a certain understanding of some of the things that I was alluding to but was unable to explicitly state. Being unable to fully develop my ideas, maybe I shouldn't have spoken at all. I just thought that a female perspective would be useful. Hopefully, someone got something from it.

- Jane
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