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Geek Culture / Shooting Massacre where I live

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Matt Rock
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Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 23:44
A lot of people here know that I'm from Binghamton, so I figured I should post and let everyone know I'm fine, even though the odds of me being involved in that incident are one in a million. If you live in the United States and you turned the news on at any time today since this morning, then you already know what I'm talking about, but for those who don't, here's the story.

I was genuinely terrified when I heard about this. My mom's apartment building is literally two blocks from here, and I was also worried about the students at Binghamton High School, where I went to school, which is about three blocks away. It seems like every time Binghamton gets on national or international news its for something tragic... in 2006 it was a major flood (I posted about it back then)... now it's this.

I guess I don't really know what else to say about it... I'm shocked and apalled, but as selfish as it sounds, I'm a bit relieved that I didn't know any of the hostages, not that I'm aware of anyway. My thoughts are with the families of the victims and those survivors that were hospitalized in the aftermath. Some paradigm shift in American culture happened in the past twenty years or so, leading to tragic events like this. I don't know what that shift was, but someone needs to figure it out and make it end. Mass shootings like this seem to be getting more and more common now, amd while I don't typically dish out cliches, I never thought something like this would happen in my city . Sorry if this has been a bit rambly, I guess I'm still a bit shocked about all this.

Tom J
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 23:50
I saw about that on Yahoo, and the first thing I thought was "that's where Matt Rock lives". It's good to hear that you and the people you know are all o.k.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 00:00
Glad you're alright mate. It's always worrying when something happens like this near where you live

Quirkyjim
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:00
The only question is why? Apparently there are no found ties from this guy to the center or anyone in it. It's just sad how people just go out one day and decide that they're going to massacre a group of people. I mean, SERIOUSLY. It's really sad.

But glad you're okay, Mr. Prez!

p.s. It is okay that I call you that, right? *Sir*

That's what they WANT you to think...
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:02
This has recent racism written all over it. This is just so ultimately tragic. I makes me so sad. Anybody is vulnerable.


Come see the WIP!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:09
It makes me angry everytime I see things like this, no matter what country it is, though it makes you wonder what runs through people's head when they do something like this. But they all have different reasons, but anybody who thinks it's okay to just kill somebody is screwed up in the head.

It's good to hear that you're okay and that you've not lost anybody that's close, though sad to hear that others are at a tragic loss.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:14
Quote: "wonder what runs through people's head"


I must resist the temptation to spill a risky and sick joke.

David R
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:18 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 01:20
No doubt this is another person who has been screwed over in the hands of a mental health system that was supposed to help them etc.

A lot of these mass killers and murderers seem to be known psychiatric patients who are wrongly discharged, or are declared "untreatable". I know that's not an excuse for them to commit these crimes, but if this guy is indeed a bit "screwy" in the head, it's not going to be entirely his fault

(Considering that most regular people will/would never do something like this, it probably points to some kind of 'condition'. Even if he was some kind of hard-line racist and was motivated purely by hate, the fact the crime can never really end in any scenario other than suicide probably means he is still a bit messed up. Or it could even be some kind of revenge killing? Who knows)


EDIT:
Gotta say, they sure do pick some bad places to put US Green card adverts


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:20
Glad you and yours are alright. It is sick and it is awful.

Quote: "This has recent racism written all over it"


I agree. A lot of people are upset about this immigration issue and of course this is not the way to respond to ones' feelings regarding that. But there are a lot of sick people out there.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
Grandma
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:25 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 01:28
As much as we love black humour, this is not the time or thread.

This sucks. What did he get from killing innocent people and then himself? You can ask all you want but the only way to really understand is to actually have his mentality, and if you have his mentality... maybe you would be too busy shooting people than wondering why.

@ David R

I've noticed that pattern too. I've seen quite a few cases like this were the shooter was using something called prosac. But hey, chicken/egg.

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:27
You guys are all saying it's racist, even though the article didn't elude to that, did it? Just because it's at an immigration centre? Am I missing something? It said he was laid off from IBM.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:29
People do this largely to make an impact. Feeling as though you're never going to be famous, never going to achieve anything, not going to be remembered can be maddening at times. Unable to blame themselves or their upbringings, these people then project their anger onto specific groups such as religious schools or colleges or immigrants in their ignorance and if you add the spark of individual unpredictability to that you've got massacre.

David R
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:30 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 01:34
@Jeku: The article doesn't say it, but it could be inferred for several reasons - mainly because the content of immigration centres tends to be... surprise... immigrants and persons of different races etc. (Although just complete craze-driven anger at recent lay off could also be a cause I suppose, a breakdown of sorts).

Pure speculation though, of course. No doubt, as per most killings in the 20th and 21st century, this has no actual logical motive at all


EDIT:
Actually, scrap the anti-immigrant racism slant, the gunman (Jiverly Voong) is a Vietnamese immigrant himself. Maybe this is some kind of revenge killing for something the immigration centre did?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:40 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 01:41
You could question 'why an immigrant centre?' but not jump to any conclusions, it is possibly racist or a statement against immigration laws, but it could have been entirely random or because it's a place that has people gathering in it. I wouldn't jump to conclusions unless you know the evidence.

Either way, it's a screwed up thing to do, he's responsible for his actions, if he's had a dangerous psychological issue before, then there's somebody else to blame as well or at least can be held account for (again, we don't know the situation). Unfortunately some conditions are unpredictable, when you diagnose them as safe, they may not be.

Matt Rock
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Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:44
Pretty much everyone was laid off from IBM, they closed their plant here in 2003... kind of shocking to local residents because IBM was founded here. My dad was a year off from retirement when it happened so he had the option of retiring instead of being laid off (better pensions and all that, or so I was made to understand at the time). I didn't know anyone locally was still employed by them actually, the massive IBM plant was converted into some other business, I'm not sure what though.

The gunman was Vietnamese, so I wouldn't rule out racism as a motive. Perhaps it was racism toward him or something? Not sure. Nothing is really clear yet, so I don't want to jump to conclusions or anything, but if he experienced racism at an immigration center, that's an extremely serious problem... hopefully not a systemic one.

I've never really seen racism here before. You see it in New York City sometimes, the place is a melting pot and all that, but not in Binghamton. I remember a kid in high school getting beaten up by a few white kids because he made a racial comment about a black girl, and I guess I always viewed my community like that... racism isn't tolerated by anyone here. If it comes to light that there's some form of racial motive involved, it's going to change my entire perception of how Binghamton's residents ignore race. But you never know, maybe it's just that I don't associate myself with those sorts of crowds. Of course, my mom is black, so I'm sure that if there is a racist crowd here, they don't exactly want to be chummy with me.

Quote: "p.s. It is okay that I call you that, right? *Sir*"

Prez, Mr. President, Sir, El Capitan, Commander in Chief, your Majesty, Sire... all acceptable . Just no putting your hand on my back, that's a huge no-no.

Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 01:47
Quote: "Maybe this is some kind of revenge killing for something the immigration centre did?"


Or maybe we should stop trying to place the blame on something else other than him?

Quote: "The gunman was Vietnamese, so I wouldn't rule out racism as a motive. Perhaps it was racism toward him or something?"


You know it *is* possible to be racist and non-white. Those two don't have to be mutually exclusive, contrary to popular belief.

My only issue with this story is how he killed himself at the end. He took the coward's way out, and I honestly hope nobody remembers his name in the end. I feel bad for the victim's families.

tha_rami
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 02:05
Quote: "You know it *is* possible to be racist and non-white. Those two don't have to be mutually exclusive, contrary to popular belief."

Indeed, like requiring zombies to be exclusively white, because black zombies is racist. Wait, whut?

In any case, it is dramatic that this happened and while I might start another raving about how guns should not be publically available, I will refrain from shooting people in their precious little 2nd amendment for now, no pun intended.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 02:23
Good, because I'm hoping to refrain from noting that if those people there had guns to defend themselves there would have been far fewer deaths.

Just sayin'

Guns or no guns, it's a shame what happened.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 02:39
Quote: "He took the coward's way out, and I honestly hope nobody remembers his name in the end"

Nor do I intend to, he's just another sadcase who lives in some kind of distorted reality where he thinks it'd be okay for him to kill people.

Insanity Complex
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 02:44
Quote: "I've seen quite a few cases like this were the shooter was using something called prosac"


Yeah...I really dislike prosac. A friend of mine was on it, would ramble about things that made no sense...and later when his gf left him, he tried to OD on the prosac. I've had a few people I know who had been on prosac, and at the least were definitely not in any kind of proper mind state...


www.aeriagames.com <-They have some decent ones
Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 03:41
Quote: "Police Chief Joseph Zikuskisaid the gunman parked his car against the back door, "making sure nobody could escape," then stormed through the front, shooting two receptionists, apparently without a word."

Great typing there, I was thinking "Zikuskisaid sounds kind of middle-eastern, and he was a police chief! That's all we need, the police going nuts!"

He was an immigrant himself? So what is the motive if not racism? I can't imagine being in such a crazed state, I've never even thought about killing someone.
Why the immigration centre though? that is a puzzling thought.

Well I hope your community stick together and don't close off from each other in fear.

can't read?
MIDN90
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:12 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 04:25
Quote: "Indeed, like requiring zombies to be exclusively white, because black zombies is racist. Wait, whut?"


What are you talking about? I don't see any race when playing Zombie games, they're all the same in my eyes.

Quote: "In any case, it is dramatic that this happened and while I might start another raving about how guns should not be publically available, I will refrain from shooting people in their precious little 2nd amendment for now, no pun intended."


OMG, enough with this 2nd amendment crap. I truly appreciate the 2nd amendment, I mean, shooting guns is a very favorite hobby of mine. But then again, what do I know? I'm an obese, redneck yank, who is gun happy.
Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:19 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 04:20
Quote: "He was an immigrant himself? So what is the motive if not racism?"


I just have to say that's really ignorant. First people say it's racism because it's at an immigration centre (assuming the gunman was white). Now that we know he's Vietnamese, you assume that it's *not* racism (because as we all know, there is no such thing as a non-white racist).

Let's just be reasonable here. The guy was not sane, regardless of his motive it's not sane to shoot up a bunch of people. Whether he is angry that immigrants are taking all the jobs, or whether he woke up on the wrong side of the bed and the immigration centre was the very first building he saw when he decided to kill innocent people.

Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:31
@Jeku
I am not ignorant, I know that Vietnamese can be racist too, but why would a Vietnamese immigrant specifically choose an immigration office? If he was racist he wouldnt have been racist against all immigrants because some of them are Vietnamese.
and I didnt think the shooter was white, I thought he was American, who is the ignorant one now?

can't read?
MIDN90
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:33
Quote: "I just have to say that's really ignorant. First people say it's racism because it's at an immigration centre (assuming the gunman was white). Now that we know he's Vietnamese, you assume that it's *not* racism (because as we all know, there is no such thing as a non-white racist). "


Yeah, exactly... Even at work, people immediately assumed it was a "white" guy that was being shot by the shooter... And my co-workers aren't "white".
Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:36
@Obese87 - Sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh, it's just certain things frustrate me (such as reverse-racism). I live and work in an area where white people are a minority, so I experience this all the time.

Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:45
@Jeku
that's alright i know what you mean i just wanted to make my stance clear.
My teenage years were spent in a rough town with a bad reputation. I used to get followed round shops by guards and almost got arrested twice for just being a certain age, even mothers would pull their children to them as i walked past! I think thats the closest I'll come to knowing what its like to be a minority.
Thankfully I seem to have outgrown that although I look pretty much the same (?)

can't read?
MIDN90
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 04:50
Quote: "Sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh, it's just certain things frustrate me (such as reverse-racism). I live and work in an area where white people are a minority, so I experience this all the time.
"


Wow... Oddly I can say the exact same.
DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 06:36
Quote: "Sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh, it's just certain things frustrate me (such as reverse-racism). I live and work in an area where white people are a minority, so I experience this all the time."


But now your doing the same thing by saying that it is racism when it's white people being racist against anyone else and "reverse-racism" when it's anyone against white people. Why does everyone think it's always white people against everyone?


DBPro, limited by the programmer.
Jeku
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 06:47
Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 06:53
Why the hell do people do things like this? It's not as if these people have done anything. They're just minding their own business, trying to have a good life, and some loser comes and kills them all, ruining those poor people's lives, as well as their loved ones lives. It just pisses me off to no end when people do crap like this.

I'd also feel both depressed and ashamed if I were one of his parents.
MIDN90
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 07:42
Quote: ""


x2
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 08:21
Quote: "My only issue with this story is how he killed himself at the end."

But maybe killing himself was his original plan anyway, and he just wanted to cause some destruction before he did it.

Rudolpho
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 12:40
I would post something, but I'm rather speechless.
Can't believe all those idiots with guns out there

Mr Z
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 14:01
Wow, wonder why he did it.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Roxas
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 14:02
Did he beat the highscore?

puppyofkosh
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 16:01
This stuff is horrible. He was probably mentally ill or something for a long time and didn't have it properly treated unfortunately.
Quirkyjim
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 16:43 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 16:44
Quote: "Did he beat the highscore?"


No, that was a couple years ago in Virginia Tech. 33 dead. This is only 14 or 13 dead. IDK, b/c it said both 13 and 14 on the news page.

That's what they WANT you to think...
Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 17:32
I just glanced at the article, and read:

[the shooting] "was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S."

Okay - tragic, and terrible, but not actually surprising. Then:

"in the past month alone."

I mean - what? There have been four other mass-killings this month which have had higher death tolls?! I mean, America is a very big place so statistically you'd expect to get a fair few events like this, but that magnitude seems... worrying.

Glad to hear you're alright Matt - just a pity that other people weren't

Secretary of Unknowable Knowledge for the Rock/Dink administration '08
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 18:19 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 18:20
Quote: "I mean - what? There have been four other mass-killings this month which have had higher death tolls?! I mean, America is a very big place so statistically you'd expect to get a fair few events like this, but that magnitude seems... worrying."


It's poor writing. I would imagine it's the only "mass-killing" in the last month, unless by some fluke there was another recent shooting. I think there might have been a school shooting just recently.

Although come to think of it, that might've been poland or something.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 19:02
What's confusing me about all of this is that I always thought that building was government owned. I don't know what the rest of the country is like right now, beyond airports and stuff, but here in New York, all of our government buildings throughout the state have pretty extreme security, and its been that way since 9/11. Maybe the center is owned by some other group... I just always thought it was a government building. If it was, then this place would have metal detectors and armed guards all over the place, not that those things would necessarily deter a crazed gunman. We've had this debate before so it's not worth doing all over again, but as I've said in past threads, I disagree with the concept that more guns thwart violent crime.

I was just thinking about how I used to have an apartment literally around the block from this place. My friend Jason used to live right next door to the place, too, and I once dated a girl who lived in a waterfront apartment across the street. I dunno, I just can't get over how many times I've driven or walked passed that place without ever thinking twice about it, just another nameless, faceless building in a moderately-sized city. It's sort of surreal in a way, but I haven't been sleeping well for a month now, so pretty much everything is surreal right now .

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