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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [LOCKED] DBPro vs. Rivals

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Nick2002
17
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Joined: 4th Nov 2002
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 19:13
I am looking to download a number of 3D games creation programs to see which is the best. However I was wondering what your opinions were? How does DBPro compare with Multimedia Fusion, Jamagic, Blitz3D, 3D Gamestudio, 3D Rad, 3D Gamemaker, RPG Toolkit and DiNGS Game Basic etc., in terms of power, speed, ease of use and graphics quality?

Also, when is the next major update of DBPro? Is there going to be a DBPro 2 released any time soon?

Thanks for all the help. As for my programming experience, well I currently use Klik & Play on my six-year old P120 with 16MB RAM! I would say that I am a beginner but I am willing to learn whatever programming language necessary. I have a little knowledge in Pascal, Delphi, C++, Basic, and QBasic already, as well as JavaScript. I essentially require a powerful, easy to use, preferably expandable program that should be suitable for me as a beginner but also advanced enough for me when I improve.

The reason I am asking this question is that I am planning to get a new computer at Christmas and would like to move on from Klik & Play to 3D games (actually I might just wait until ClawHammer/Athlon DT comes out, whenever that may be). Having said that, would a 64-bit processor like the ClawHammer actually be better for 3D programming than a 32-bit one (e.g. the Athlon XP)?

Sorry if I seem a little stupid, but I'm just looking for the most suitable 3D upgrade to Kilk.

Cheers,

Nick
Dreamora
17
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Joined: 20th Sep 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 20:15
MF, Jamagic, Dings Basic and RPG Toolkit are only 2D if I'm not completely wrong
3D gamemaker is somethin like K&P in 3D
3D Game Studio is shit in the standard version, low resolution etc. and pro version costs 1000$
3D Rad ... don't know much about it
Blitz3D: at the moment faster then DBP but more complicate to learn because of its syntax
DBP: lots too much bugs, need 2-3 more Patches until it is usable

chubby parrot
17
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Joined: 4th Nov 2002
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 21:05
Is Multimedia Fusion3D out yet? I thought it was just in the works.

Jamagic is very interesting and I prefer its language over all those you listed. In my opinion it doesn't render 3D well--kind of flat and washed-out. And complaints are constant about its inadequate speed. Supposedly very versitle though. Might buy it. One of the developers heralds from AMOS on the Amiga and so has a piece of my heart. Most current users are making apps, as opposed to games, with it. It's slated to go cross-platform.

Blitz3D is very good and stable. It renders well. I like its syntax. It's a little less basic-y than DBPro. Not as many commands as DBPro but still robust. Easy to use. Fast! Both Mark Sibly (Blitz3D) and Fran├žois Lionet (Jamagic) created versions of basic for the Amiga (Blitz and AMOS respectively), so they are mature programmers, which I think is worth paying attention to. Blitz3D is slated to go cross-platform.

3D Gamestudio almost has a nice scripting language... resembles C (as does Jamagic). But its implementation of variables is awkward. It has very good editors for modeling and scene layout and you can assign canned behaviors without coding but to do anything even half-assed original you have get into its code. Renders okay, though last-generation, and runs fast.

Never but glanced at 3DRad.

3D Gamemaker is, I believe, all canned stuff aimed at point-and-clicking together primarily fps's. But I've never used it.

Haven't tried the others you listed.

I've also tried Director 8.5.1 and it's good (though expensive as hell). It's not aimed at gamemaking, though... more like what's labeled multimedia. The 3D is robust, fast, well-rendered, though. And Lingo is fun to script, being a pretty robust, object-oriented language. It's Windows/MacOS compatible, but you need a copy for each platform to make cross-platform stuff...definitely aimed at money-makers as opposed to hobbyists.

My opinion isn't firm for or against DBPro yet. I'm not a big fan of basic so that doesn't help. It's won some real loyal fans though.

Jamagic, Blitz3D and DBPro are all priced very cheaply, in my opinion. And they all have demos. Partly what I did to evaluate them is come up with a simple example--small environment, particles under individual control, a little collision detection and fancy light stuff--and coded it from scratch in each language. Blitz3D won, with Director coming in a close second. Jamagic was the most enjoyable to code, though the hardest to learn, and so took the longest. 3D Gamestudio was the third fastest at development, and the resulting app was very fast. DB 1.13 worked well, though I hate its version of 3D alpha blending, or what I could understand of it...DBPro I gave up on.

CD On CD
17
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 21:11
MMF is 2D & of course is still point-n-click - easy to use

Jamagic does do 3D but seems more difficult & not near as powerful (could just be me though)

3DGM is point-n-click but CAN use your own .X files if ya know how to incorprate them

DBP will be good & hopefully once you've learned it (like I), the bugs will be worked out (I hope anyway)


as far as cost for these,,,,they all sem to be comparable.

United We (Still) Stand
Dazzy
17
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 21:21
Nick I presume it was you who posted on the blitz forums aswell.

My advice is try all and choose whichever you like best, it is very unlikely you'll get an unbiased opinion on here as you were told on the blitz forums the same!

Dazzy
EdzUp
17
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Joined: 8th Sep 2002
Location: Citadel Cyberspace
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 22:29
The best way to get an informed idea on the subject is to download a demo of DBPro, Blitz3d and the other things your interested in. Have a play with them and then decide which you feel suits your needs best.

rapscaLLion
17
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 23:15
oh god... you don't sound stupid, but we get so many of these questions. Anyway, heres the low down:

"How does DBPro compare with Multimedia Fusion, Jamagic, Blitz3D, 3D Gamestudio, 3D Rad, 3D Gamemaker, RPG Toolkit and DiNGS Game Basic etc., in terms of power, speed, ease of use and graphics quality? "
Multimedia Fusion is 2D only, no comparison visually. I would say DB is more powerful, but it's hard to compare, as MMf is object oriented, doesn't use a programming language per say, etc.
Jamagic: From what I've seen, poor graphic quality, low res, and SCRIPTING IN JAVA? What kinda retard thought that up?
Blitz 3D: Powerful and fast, and full of features. While I haven't actually used the 3D version myself much, others have, and say it's slightly harder to get the hang of. Plus the community is for registered members only...
3D Gamestudio: Costs too much, and your pretty much limited to FPS games. Again, it cost's WAY TOO MUCH!
3D Rad: To much like KNP for my liking... Plus the 3D engine isn't great. I've never really seen much good come from it.
3D Gamemaker: Not worth the money IMHO. It's fine for the real newbeish of newbies. But not powerful enough in my opinion. You can't really do to much with it.
RPG Toolkit: 2D and outdated. Skip it.
DarkBASIC Classic: Outdated, but user friendly. Not to many new features though... TONS of support from all the forum users.
DarkBASIC Pro: Easy to use, packed with features, Etc. As DBP JUST came out a month ago, there are no plans yet for DBP 2 Patches are coming fast, the first one came out the day DBP came out, The second one soon after, and we are expecting the third on soon. A huge amount of support is available on the forums, or DB Software is just an email away. There are also conventions going on, etc.

Really, you are limited to BB3D or DB. I would say pick DB, but that is because I'm biased. In the end it's your choice. Download the demos, spend some time on the forums, etc.

Cheers

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
Shadow Robert
17
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 23:36
RPG Maker is actually quite fun, but at what 180Mb isn't a small chunk to download just for something relatively Zelda on the Gameboy like!

3D Gamestudio doesn't actually give you anything that a simple modable engine doesn't (so look out in the DBpro forums over the comming months)

Blitz2D/3D are pretty decent, however they lack the depth really required for anything major (just like DB did before DarkMatter) - however they are quite fast, thanks to OpenGL... but because of that can't really say i'm gonna expect alot more when BlitzMax is out.

3DRad - not seen as of yet
Jamagic is pretty cool, however the speed due to the universal language setup - has ALOT to be desired, even compaired to DarkBasic Standard which is an interpreter language like VRML.

3D Gamemaker it was a good idea, should have been designed exclusively in C++ rather than DB though as everything was drag'n'drop

Blender although now technically dead, is still quite a good game scripter - and everything you need is within the developer. Shame to have seen it fall, but just a little too complex and not enough depth.

DIV overly complex 2D Game maker ... was pretty good, but was way too complex - learning C was easier to me than that

DBpro is still really in the first 6months of release, so its a little too early to start patting it on its back and saying giveup - i mean Blitz users think back to before 1.3! wasn't so stable back then eh :p
However thanks to the new OOL stuff, and a few added things direct from DirectX - as well as its compiliation, i reckon it's like a fine wine... is just gonna get better with age.

but then again there is only so much they can do before you turn around and thing "Hey, i might was well learn C++ "

really the battle for languages for most users here atleast wages on the basic level
Blitz vs DB

and on the proffesional
C++, C, Pascal or Assembly ... i mean Fortran is still about but only as an sdk style language for C/C++



Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Dazzy
17
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Nov 2002 23:48
Raven I agree with most things u say but to say DIV is a complex language is madness, its the easiest I have come across, nice multi threading approach and structure!

Dazzy
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
18
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Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 01:30
Sorry guys but I'm locking and removing this thread - this forum is NOT a place to openly advertise alternatives to DBPro, if you want to get some research on alternative products then go to Google, find the sites and read about it for yourselves. Meanwhile if you're here, we're paying for this bandwidth and we will continue removing threads that consist of DBPro vs. Anything.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming

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