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Geek Culture / I actualy....

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General Reed
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Posted: 16th May 2009 19:52
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...Have something good to say about windows! I have been beta testing windows 7 for a while, And i must say im impressed. Many of the added feature seem to actualy add to production, For once. Like i love the new organization of the task bar, How its just icons, Then u can see the whole ghosted windows when u choose. Along side with it seemingly more stable, And quicker than vista. Now dont get me wrong, I still think that windows xp and vista are steaming piles of ......, But i do think that 7 at least has a chance of making it into my "Useable" catagory. I'm releaved that MS have finally bought out an OS, Which linux users like me, Can use when needed, Without worry. Tho i do find it a bit of a co-incidence that as soon as gates leaves MS, this fine OS is released.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Jeku
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Posted: 16th May 2009 20:11
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Quote: "Tho i do find it a bit of a co-incidence that as soon as gates leaves MS, this fine OS is released."


OS' take several years to make, I'm sure Gate probably had his hands in Windows 7 too.

North Korea 2007 Tour Pictures
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 16th May 2009 21:10
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Quote: "windows xp and vista are steaming piles of"


Everyone knows there are some people who dislike vista (I don't, it's awesome), but I see no reason to dislike XP, being the awesome OS it was for it's time, and still is.

I'm currently running Windows 7 and it's great too!

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xplosys
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Posted: 16th May 2009 23:48
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If you find yourself impressed with it, don't worry. There's still plenty of time for them to screw it up before final release.

Brian.

fpsFREE - Contact Me
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Mr Z
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Posted: 17th May 2009 00:17 Edited at: 17th May 2009 00:18
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Windows 7 is very nice .

Quote: "Everyone knows there are some people who dislike vista (I don't, it's awesome), but I see no reason to dislike XP, being the awesome OS it was for it's time, and still is."


People are different.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 17th May 2009 00:19 Edited at: 17th May 2009 00:36
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If you can get the old taskbar back, I'm in. Nice as the SuperBar is (I've used it) it's my personal preference to have a double width standard taskbar, one of the layers used as a Quick Launch. Having running apps and single-click buttons to run apps in the same place is immensely stupid.

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draknir_
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Posted: 17th May 2009 02:08
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Quote: "Having running apps and single-click buttons to run apps in the same place is immensely stupid."


Agreed, it's faulty design because it makes the distinction between the two less obvious, which can give non-savvy users the wrong idea about how programs work.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 18th May 2009 07:24
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Quote: "Everyone knows there are some people who dislike vista (I don't, it's awesome"


I don't care what anyone else says, Vista is one million times better because it has a faster search engine.

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 18th May 2009 07:27
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toasty freash speaks truth

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

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General Reed
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Posted: 18th May 2009 09:18
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Quote: "I don't care what anyone else says, Vista is one million times better because it has a faster search engine."
Windows 7 uses an improved version of the search engine, Which does not require a 10 year index every time you create 1 file, Or start the computer.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 18th May 2009 10:45
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Quote: "Which does not require a 10 year index every time you create 1 file, Or start the computer."


What does that mean?

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 18th May 2009 13:46
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A huuuuge delay because it writes the filename... to a file.

Keep your system organised and you'll never need search.

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Roxas
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Posted: 18th May 2009 16:48 Edited at: 18th May 2009 16:52
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I suggest everyone here try Ubuntu LiveCD and tell their exprience with it.
Windows isnt only OS here

[rant]
Also i really hate what Microsoft does with the "Games for Windows" thingy, They pay for developers that they follow "Microsofts standards" so the game is only for Windows. And Linux does not even get changes from Devs. DX10 is also joke. The only thing is the Geometry shaders added and as the engine is shader based and cards are still slow on shader languanges DX9 is faster.

Also OpenGL had geometry shaders since 2.1+
[/rant]

Yeah but this is how monopoly works i guess.

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General Reed
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Posted: 18th May 2009 16:59
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Quote: "I suggest everyone here try Ubuntu LiveCD and tell their exprience with it.
Windows isnt only OS here

[rant]
Also i really hate what Microsoft does with the "Games for Windows" thingy, They pay for developers that they follow "Microsofts standards" so the game is only for Windows. And Linux does not even get changes from Devs. DX10 is also joke. The only thing is the Geometry shaders added and as the engine is shader based and cards are still slow on shader languanges DX9 is faster.

Also OpenGL had geometry shaders since 2.1+
[/rant]

Yeah but this is how monopoly works i guess.
"

Agreed. Im a linux fan, Im just saying that for once MS have actualy managed to make an operating system that, 1. Looks good, 2. Runs quickly, 3. Has actualy added USEFUL functionality. All this stuff has been in kde and gnome for quite some time, But im just glad that finaly when i want to play games, I dont have to put up with a slow, Useless OS.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2009 17:55
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Yes, we all know about Linux, but I'm sure people are happy with Windows enough here. I stick with Windows because despite the problems people have I find it convenient and it does what I want it to do. Even Vista! Vista may use more resources than XP and XP after SP2 is stabler but I have not had problems with Vista itself, UAC is not an annoyance for me and I find it useful. The programs I like using work just fine and though one or two old games do not run I manage just fine. I know other people's experiences differ and certainly when I was using the original build of windows XP I had a lot of problems myself but I am in no way a Microsoft hater (nor a fanboy)...despite how ugly Office 2007 is. I was very skeptical of Windows Vista and thought it would be a nightmare, it really isn't.

Windows 7 gives me optimism for the future and may buy it on release, I remember all of the talk about Vista before its release, the tone was entirely different. Windows 7 uses fewer resources, it has better backward compatibility and it's suppose to function much more smoothly and I've not heard of any complaints. I tried it under Virtual PC and it seemed decent enough.

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Grandma
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Posted: 18th May 2009 18:26
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I always liked windows ME best. I regretfully had to switch to XP for some compability issues with newer apps. Vista didn't fancy me much, neither did Ubuntu. Maybe I'll have better luck with windows 7, but I'm in no hurry to "upgrade" until things stop working.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Jeff032
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Posted: 18th May 2009 18:49 Edited at: 18th May 2009 18:52
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Quote: "I suggest everyone here try Ubuntu LiveCD and tell their exprience with it."


I've got Ubuntu x64, Win 7 Beta x64(still need to get around to installing RC1), and Vista Ultimate x64 on system, and I've also used ArchLinux. (Also, Solaris and Mac for some of my classes)

So...

Games. One of the main reasons I use Windows. Though I managed to find a linux client for ETQW which runs nicely, and I found another program that might let me get a few games going under Wine.

Stability. I realize this is not the case for everyone, but Vista is extremely stable for me, and I have never been required to do a hard reboot. Ubuntu...Gnome keeps locking up completely, even when I just logged in and walk away for a sec - I come back and I can't do anything. I might need to give KDE a try.

Speed I. Vista boots fast for me. Once again, not the case for everyone, but I can have Firefox open within a couple of seconds of seeing my desktop after a restart. Ubuntu is about the same here.

Speed II. When copying files...Ubuntu becomes rather...useless. Everything just becomes ridiculously slow. Vista still runs decently while copying. Strangely...when I tried the Windows 7 Beta, the slow down while copying was a lot greater than it was in Vista. Can anyone tell me if this has changed in RC1?

Programming. Visual Studio. Some of the courses I've been taking involve using XNA, and I'm working on an XNA game for a competition, so obviously I need to be running Windows for that. Anything that I need / want to do can be done on Windows.

Misc.
-Vista Explorer <--SUCKS, it wont remember my folder view settings or the columns that I want to be displayed. This is what I hate most about Vista. The Windows 7 exporer seemed much nicer, but I might need to test it longer. Ubuntu's is nice as well.
-My Mouse - My mouse has a strange scroll wheel that allows for very nice smooth scrolling under Windows, but on Ubuntu, it causes everything to scroll ridiculously fast.

So yeah...back on topic...I can't wait for Windows 7. I like the new task bar a lot more. The window docking thing is very nice too, I just hope they fix it/have fixed it for dual monitors. There's lots of little changes that make it nice. And its faster

-Jeff

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Roxas
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Posted: 18th May 2009 20:41
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Did you use Wubi? Wubi sucks and all those problems happens in wubi. Especially file transfer because wubi has to use windows NTFS. Linux fileformats are far superior to windows ones.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 18th May 2009 20:49
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So the fact that Linux has to use NTFS not only causes constant freezes (all he did was log in and it froze, sounds a lot like another Unix based OS I'm familliar with!) but it also causes his mousewheel to go insane?

Nah, mate, it's just that Ubuntu doesn't work as well on some systems as it does on others, just like Windows.

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Roxas
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Posted: 18th May 2009 20:58 Edited at: 18th May 2009 21:03
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Quote: "So the fact that Linux has to use NTFS not only causes constant freezes (all he did was log in and it froze, sounds a lot like another Unix based OS I'm familliar with!) but it also causes his mousewheel to go insane?"


The mousewheel could be because of NTFS too but highly unlikely. Maybe the mouse has too high sensitivy as default? Others sound like wubi issue really. Gnome locking up, slow transfers etc. Gnome hasnt never locked up for me yet. There is only one bug i know for now, but i think its fixed already as i updated. Also KDE isn't good IMO But as you like Windows you may like KDE too.
Ubuntu has worked for everyone i have installed it. Expection is hardware which has no linux drivers in kernel.

Usually people tend to critize OSes with their applications. Apps are developed by people that uses the OS. So if there is no similar program as Windows which has nice flashing DVDMAKER text does not make Linux bad As for the Microsoft Visual thingy use Code::Blocks. Much better IDE anyways. For the XNA use Irrlicht, if you dont want to dev for Xbox that is.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 18th May 2009 21:11 Edited at: 18th May 2009 21:13
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I've used Linux before, quite extensively. Ran a home server for media and a Quake 3 dedicated. I quickly noticed that some systems it agrees with well, others it just barfs on. It's stable once it's set up properly but setting up a lightweight Linux system is a pain.

And no, Ubuntu is not lightweight. Not really, anyway.

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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2009 00:02
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Quote: "And no, Ubuntu is not lightweight. Not really, anyway."


Damn Small Linux if you want light, Ubuntu is lighter than any recent Windows anyways And if your old computer cant take ubuntu there is other similar distros. Or heck Xubuntu or Fluxubuntu.

But yeah Ubuntu is really the "noob" distro which is easier for newcomer. The most lightweighted and intresting ones are usually bit more in tech.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 19th May 2009 00:14
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Yeah, I ended up using DSL. But if you reeeeally want small:

http://www.tinycorelinux.com/

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Jeff032
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Posted: 19th May 2009 02:27 Edited at: 19th May 2009 02:29
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Quote: "Did you use Wubi? Wubi sucks and all those problems happens in wubi. Especially file transfer because wubi has to use windows NTFS. Linux fileformats are far superior to windows ones."


Nope, I did not use Wubi, and my partitions are not NTFS.

Quote: "The mousewheel could be because of NTFS too but highly unlikely. Maybe the mouse has too high sensitivy as default?"


I couldn't find a way to adjust the sensitivity of the mouse wheel. My mouse is a Wireless Laser Mouse 6000. I was, however, able to find a program to bind actions to the special buttons.

Quote: "As for the Microsoft Visual thingy use Code::Blocks. Much better IDE anyways."


I'll take a look at it.

Quote: "For the XNA use Irrlicht, if you dont want to dev for Xbox that is."


Well the competition is to make an Xbox 360 game...so yeah... I've used Irrlicht before though. I've got a small project going with it that's on hold while I work on my competition entry.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 19th May 2009 03:08
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I love how people criticize Windows for the OSes they make, but in all truth how hard would it be to make something like that? Incredibly! Programming an OS is no easy task (At least for me it isn't).

So yeah don't dish Windows crap until you've made your own OS.


Gosh, I'm coming across as a Microsoft fanboy now but in actual fact I'd switch over to Mac OS X if it supported DX.

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Inspire
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Posted: 19th May 2009 03:41
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So yeah don't dish Windows crap until you've made your own OS."


Not to particularly pick on you, but a lot of people say stuff like this and it doesn't make sense. It's like saying "no criticize the government until you're president". If people have a job (making an OS), they better do it well, and we get to complain all we want because we are the people who purchase their product and allow them to keep their jobs.

By the way, I <3 Mac.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th May 2009 03:49
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Though I don't agree with how you've argued it, but I can share a similar sentiment in that Windows is quite an incredible piece of software as are the other main OS's, and have done a fantastic job in contributing to the computing industry as has Linux and MacOS and it's not fair to slate it and the hard work that's gone into them - though those with problems can get frustrated as anyone would with a product that isn't working as it should, but lets be honest, we don't live in an ideal world where an OS works in perfect unity with the hardware and this is not only true of Windows but top Linux distros and even MacOS. Though MacOSX is perhaps considered the most stable, (I'd put that down to the fact they develop it for only their own hardware, whilst Windows and Linux have to work with any number of hardware configurations) it is necessary the superior one, their systems are more pricey and don't attract as many developers as Windows does, thus Windows has developed a lot of users that rely on the products made by said developers. The extra cost for Mac is likely due to the hardware quality and testing, so there are consumers who are willing to pay less so they can have a Windows system and it isn't as complicated to your average user as Linux might be, thus it has an appeal developers and has built up a number of developers over the years. Microsoft have managed to do well and it's not as if they've eliminated their competition either or falling for unethical business tactics as businesses in some other industries do. (In fact didn't MS bail apple out?)

So I don't understand the 'anti-Windows' or 'anti-MS' mentality, I certainly can't see why somebody can hate or have a grudge with an operating system and I don't understand OS fan-boyism either. But I suppose some people are mad.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 19th May 2009 04:05 Edited at: 19th May 2009 05:26
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Quote: "I love how people criticize Windows for the OSes they make, but in all truth how hard would it be to make something like that? Incredibly! Programming an OS is no easy task (At least for me it isn't).

So yeah don't dish Windows crap until you've made your own OS"


That is totally irrelevant. As the developer of a leading OS Microsoft has a responsibility to provide us with a decent OS (that's not to say that they haven't). They can't just dish out crap and say, "Hey, why don't you make your own if you don't like ours so much!".

(note that I personally don't think Vista or XP has been crap, I was just saying that as an example)

i like orange
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General Reed
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Posted: 19th May 2009 04:52
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Quote: "That is totally irrelevant. As the developer of a leading OS Microsoft has a responsibility to provide us with a decent OS (that's not to say that they haven't). They can't just dish out crap and say, "Hey, why don't you make your own if you don't like ours so much!"."
- Exactly, and imo this criteria has not been fullfilled until the recent windows 7, With which as ive already said, im impressed with.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 19th May 2009 21:31
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I like XP. I like Vista. I like 7.
I dislike Macs and Linux.
Why? Because I'm used to Windows.

/end

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Michael P
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Posted: 19th May 2009 22:27
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I don't like Vista because it seems to me like the majority of what they did involved unnecessarily changing lots of things and adding some bloat. Windows 7 sounds promising though.

DarkNet - multiplayer plugin
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David R
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Posted: 19th May 2009 22:45 Edited at: 19th May 2009 22:50
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Quote: "Why? Because I'm used to Windows."


Welcome to why I think MS have killed computing. Yeah, they've made great software, but they've abstracted users so far away from the bare metal, people have lost understanding of what a computer actually is. This means MS have a potentially infinite cash cow, because the bulk of the 'audience' are too ignorant to learn or explore other avenues of technology. That's OK if MS are a super innovative company that follow the bleeding edge of tech - but they aren't. I reckon the way in which Windows controls the market slows down innovation and progress by a long, long time.

Of course, this dilutes into "Computers as an appliance vs. Computers as something else" (The 'I shouldn't have to understand it to use it' argument). Which I also agree with to an extent. I just think MS have been 'too successful' so to speak. Change is good.

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 19th May 2009 23:25 Edited at: 19th May 2009 23:26
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I hope Singularity hits mainstream, because it sounds kickass. Little to no malware because they've removed humans from per-process memory management, drivers find it difficult to crash the system, total lack of Win32 compatability means they can make it fast, lightweight and pretty.

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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2009 23:37 Edited at: 19th May 2009 23:38
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Im waiting for OpenCL, the release of OpenGL 3 dissapointed me. Thank you CAD Software developers. Also i dont want to sound rude, but what is this Mac thingy going on? It's basically a custom linux kernel with added programs inside it and costs like crazy.
But that maybe just me, i've never got apple products really.

I guess i should give Mac a go someday.

Quote: "
I like XP. I like Vista. I like 7.
I dislike Macs and Linux.
Why? Because I'm used to Windows.
"


"I rather walk, because i cant drive a car"

Also just to mention, even i may sound annyoining Linuxtard at times, i dont really hate Windows just the little bits of business Microsoft is doing. Infact Windows 7 looks good.

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David R
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Posted: 19th May 2009 23:58
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Quote: "It's basically a custom linux kernel with added programs inside it and costs like crazy."


Surely you mean that in reverse, considering the original Mach kernel predates Linux by about six or seven years?

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 20th May 2009 00:26 Edited at: 20th May 2009 00:27
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Quote: "Welcome to why I think MS have killed computing. Yeah, they've made great software, but they've abstracted users so far away from the bare metal, people have lost understanding of what a computer actually is. This means MS have a potentially infinite cash cow, because the bulk of the 'audience' are too ignorant to learn or explore other avenues of technology. That's OK if MS are a super innovative company that follow the bleeding edge of tech - but they aren't. I reckon the way in which Windows controls the market slows down innovation and progress by a long, long time."

Quite frankly, I don't care. I don't care that it's not innovative, it's not pretty, it's not the highest tech there is. It does everything I want it to. I don't want to have to 'relearn' how to use a computer in order to use mac or linux. I'm happy with Windows. I tried mac and linux, and I didn't like either because it's not what I'm used to. If I'd been brought up to use macs things would be different. I don't think Windows is better than Macs or Linux in any way, but I prefer them in any case.

EDIT:
Quote: ""I rather walk, because i cant drive a car""

I rather walk than drive a car, because I only want to cross the street.

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David R
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Posted: 20th May 2009 00:49 Edited at: 20th May 2009 00:57
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Quote: "Quite frankly, I don't care. I don't care that it's not innovative, it's not pretty, it's not the highest tech there is. It does everything I want it to. I don't want to have to 'relearn' how to use a computer in order to use mac or linux. I'm happy with Windows. I tried mac and linux, and I didn't like either because it's not what I'm used to. If I'd been brought up to use macs things would be different. I don't think Windows is better than Macs or Linux in any way, but I prefer them in any case."


Yes, because MS have made it so you don't care By being there first, on every machine, required for every application etc. their products become the de facto expectation of you and every other user. To a degree, that's good - they make passable software. The problem is, this expectation is embedded to the point where things can no longer evolve and adapt. Businesses can't move to the next big things, because their staff are trained in product [x] that requires library [y] that only runs on Windows.

That kind of situation sucks, and is just a giant cash cow for MS, whilst limiting future development and progress. Things can only progress at the same rate as Windows does, effectively, because something that isn't part of the Win. ecosystem, or is in contrast with Windows is ignored or sidelined. Of course, to the average user, Windows is their computer, so they couldn't care less. Think bigger though, and the only way is down.

EDIT:
Frankly, I can't wait until Windows moves to the cloud. Not because of the possibilities, but more the fact that I can 99% guarantee that MS will screw it up. And when they do, they're ripe to be destroyed, because they're not giants in that industry, they don't have any form of lock-in/monopoly, cloud services are not visible (so 'de facto ness' is irrelevant), and developers/users aren't constrained by APIs, porting etc.

I think that's another reason why Windows never really advances very far in any particular direction. Not just because they want to keep it usable and backward compatible: but because if they move into a zone they don't dominate, they have a chance of losing a segment of their hold on the OS (and hence the PC ecosystem as a whole)

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 20th May 2009 01:16 Edited at: 20th May 2009 01:20
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You say that, DavidR, but have you ever tried using OS X with an account on a network with more than fifteen users? It's so shamefully useless because you can't even change window focus it pinwheels so often. When OS X is halfway capable of living on a network account WITHOUT accessing files every two and a half milliseconds, maybe then it'll gain market share. I have network activity monitoring software and it's often reading and writing 2.5mb/s at minimum with nothing open on a desktop with no files on it. Not to mention a lot of software (Maya, Toon Boom) just doesn't work on certain versions of OS X and/or network accounts. If Apple ever crack workplace/otherwise network systems, they'll take off, but until then they won't.

It's a wonderfully slick OS on a local account. But how many computers around the world run on local accounts?

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David R
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Posted: 20th May 2009 01:24 Edited at: 20th May 2009 01:26
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Quote: "It's a wonderfully slick OS on a local account. But how many computers around the world run on local accounts?"


Clearly not many, because Windows is equally dreadful when it comes to networking

Just to make it clear though, I'm not singing the praises of OS X or any OS, I'm just saying that the "OMG MS IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD" is a rather strange view to take. They want your money. That's it. By keeping the average consumer stupid, they get more money. That's what I think needs to stop. What's needed is not so much choice (which is FOSS line of work/though) but giving users the ability to practically choose - because MS does a good job at shackling the entire industry to its products, rendering any 'choice' on the behalf of the consumer irrelevant ("That alternative looks good, but it can't run application [n], and document [x] only opens in Office, so I can't use it" etc.)

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Jeku
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Posted: 20th May 2009 03:15
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Quote: "Surely you mean that in reverse, considering the original Mach kernel predates Linux by about six or seven years?"


Yes that's true, but specifically the OSX kernel is based on Unix isn't it?

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Inspire
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Posted: 20th May 2009 04:17
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@ Jeku:

I guess he's just talking about the "Mach" kernel.

Quote: "ou say that, DavidR, but have you ever tried using OS X with an account on a network with more than fifteen users?"


I do this every day, and it works fine. Are you sure you're not using a 15-year old computer?
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 20th May 2009 10:42
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Quote: "That is totally irrelevant. As the developer of a leading OS Microsoft has a responsibility to provide us with a decent OS (that's not to say that they haven't). They can't just dish out crap and say, "Hey, why don't you make your own if you don't like ours so much!"."

I think you've totally misinterpreted me!

All I'm saying is I hear a lot of Vista and Windows nay-sayers when quite frankly I've never had any issues with Vista! Nor has anyone I know personally. Honestly Vista is a great OS sure the backwards compatibility wasn't to good, but Windows 7 is including a Virtual XP so that will help!

Quite a few people condemn Microsoft, when they themselves don't know the first thing about programming an OS! Hell even I don't know totally what it takes!

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 20th May 2009 11:51
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Quote: "Are you sure you're not using a 15-year old computer? "


Uh, these 240 Aluminium Unibody iMacs with 2.2gHz Core 2 Duos, 240Gb HDDs and 4Gb of RAM were installed a little over six months ago.

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David R
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Posted: 20th May 2009 12:57
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Quote: "Yes that's true, but specifically the OSX kernel is based on Unix isn't it?
"


OS X is derived from tons of stuff (Mach / BSD, the NEXTSTEP stuff, XNU etc.) and indirectly UNIX, yeah - but my point was, saying "OS X is just a Linux kernel" etc. is rather silly, considering the kernel that forms the base of OS X predates Linux itself. Not to mention the fact that the Mach kernel is a very different 'view' on the UNIX methodology (It was designed to kill the "everything as a file" but stay UNIX compatible/portable)

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Roxas
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Posted: 20th May 2009 13:49
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Quote: ""OS X is just a Linux kernel" etc. is rather silly"

What i meant wasn't really in depth, but the functionality. Linux kernel can do everything that OS X can do. But it seems OS X has really good application base for non techy users. I've seen lots of complaints about Linux applications because some of them needs bit of fiddling. But this depends on developer really.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th May 2009 14:42
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What is it that makes OSX and Linux superior for your average user?

The only one I can think of is stability. Macs are much more expensive. Linux can have the same difficulties ranging from different machines as Windows does and Linux is not as easy to use, and we still have plenty of technophobes out there using computers.

I have played with MacOS and Linux and well Windows does what I want it to do and many users find that and if it is really setting back the businesses, then what exactly is being said by the businesses?

I would be a Mac user if: It ran all of the programs I wanted (remove microsoft and have Apple at the top would perhaps solve that one, yes) and for my prefered spec to be much more affordable and that's where MS competes it's much cheaper to have a PC than a Mac. Why don't I convert to Linux? I've not been a big fan of using it, and well, revert back to point 1 of what's stopping me from using a Mac.

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Jeku
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Posted: 20th May 2009 17:25 Edited at: 20th May 2009 17:27
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Well, the stability bonus of OSX over XP is debatable. While I've never had OSX flat-out "blue screen" or whatever the Mac comparison error message, I have had programs cease to stop working many times. I have to force kill it. Yes I understand that a lot of the responsibility lies with the developer. I also have devices that do not work when plugged into a Mac (webcam and MIDI-to-USB port comes to mind).

The whole "it just works" tagline is ridiculous and untrue for ANY OS.

It's probably true that "it just works" as long as you have a device from a specific list of brands and gear. But since that's the case, the same can be said for XP, as I can plug in some devices that "just work" and others where I need to install drivers.

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David R
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Posted: 20th May 2009 17:39 Edited at: 20th May 2009 17:40
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Quote: "The whole "it just works" tagline is ridiculous and untrue for ANY OS."


I think it is true - people just misinterpret what it means (or at least, it is misleading as to what it does mean). I don't think it's intended to mean it works perfectly every time - it's supposed to mean it does the job and doesn't annoy/pester etc.

At least, that's the impression I get from using OS X. USB devices are a good example of this methodology: there is no notifier, for instance, when they are plugged in. The device either works, or it doesn't. Most of the time, it's the former, in which case, yes "it just works".

So I would say that phrase is truncated ("It just works... rather than displaying stupid messages, becoming tedious etc.") but is intentionally misleading (implying it works perfectly all the time). I'd say it's an expression of their UI philosophy rather than a description of the OS itself (minimalist, lacking redundant feedback etc.)

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 20th May 2009 19:59 Edited at: 20th May 2009 19:59
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Quote: "Yes, because MS have made it so you don't care"

I disagree. If windows does what I want, then my expectations can't be higher. I'm happy, so it doesn't matter if I could be using something else that's slightly better. I don't care because it makes no difference to me either way.

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Jeff032
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Posted: 20th May 2009 21:17 Edited at: 20th May 2009 21:21
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Quote: "While I've never had OSX flat-out "blue screen" or whatever the Mac comparison error message, I have had programs cease to stop working many times"


I've had OSX crash when I remove my flash drive.

I've had a lot of problems with programs just crashing silently too - especially Maya, though that's probably AutoDesk's fault. It works much better on Windows.

Vista is the only thing that has been stable for me (more so than XP, too), so I'll be sticking with that, and will probably move to Windows 7 when that comes out.

[EDIT]
Though Vista is installed on lots of computers in the labs here. Quad Cores, over 2.6 GHz, 4GB ram, and it is SO SLOW, ARGH. The login takes forever. It runs much faster on my computer with Dual Core 2.13 GHz (also 4GB ram).

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