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Geek Culture / Laptop for uni: Mac or PC? (thats guaranteed to cause debate)

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sp3ng
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 11:39
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ok, well im just about to be leaving school at the end of this year, and im planning on buying a laptop to get me through uni, most likely doing a course in IT or possibly film/audio engineering

i know that being in a band, i definitely want to do home recording/audio engineering on the side, which is why im considering a macbook

the only issue for me is cost, i will probably be buying the basic 13" MacBook at ~$1500 aus, it has 2GB or RAM and a 2.2GHz dual core, so it's still fairly decent, but i can always get a windows laptop for the same price with better specs

i will mainly be using the laptop for recording, word processing and artwork etc. it probably wont be used for too many major games, and i can always dual boot windows using boot camp or something, so what do you guys think i should do based on what im using it for, should i get a high spec windows laptop (if so any recommendations?) or a average spec Macbook?

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 11:47
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Even though I'm a PC guy, I do admit that when it comes to recording and audio/video creation stuff, Mac's have an edge. You're right, they are more expensive. They are also more expensive to upgrade and repair. I would go with a Mac if I were you. Either way you could do the same stuff, I just think a Mac would fit you better. And like you said, you can always dual boot.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 11:51 Edited at: 11th Jun 2009 11:51
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If you won't miss being able to resize your windows from any edge, being able to maxmise them and the obvious differentiation between running and nonrunning apps other OSes provide, go Mac.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 12:00
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Depends on you. I wouldn´t, but if you have no need for the higher end PC hardware, can afford it and a Mac would fit your needs better, then go Mac.

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sp3ng
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 12:17
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thanks for the replies, im most likely going to go mac, seeing as small things like the resizing and the window buttons on the opposite side dont really bother me when theres more features in other areas (i can just get used to them lol)

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Satchmo
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 15:06 Edited at: 11th Jun 2009 23:58
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If you really need to use OSX, make a hackintosh. The extra price apple adds to their products is really ridiculous.

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David R
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 17:03
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Hackintoshes are pointless - they completely negate the advantage of a Mac (fixed software + hardware match) and rarely work very well. You get very used to panicking if you build a hackintosh

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Monk
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 18:53
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Dont macs have better battery life as well?? Id be tempted to buy a decent mac (despite the extra price) and put dual boot xp on it as well =)

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Aertic
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 19:13
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I suggest getting a High-End mac(If any! lol), and installing Windows 7/Winxp on it and dual-boot between the both, aswell as getting some External HD's(Get around 500gb or more, and you'll be set for life).

Also get some good Music progs aswell as Sony-Vegas(For basic Video editing, Ivideo = cat food), and maybe Photoshop Extended CS3-CS4 for some logo work & video editing(It HAS to be Extended for video editing as far as im concerened).

Also try out Linux... perferbly Ubuntu for browsing & Social stuff... <3 Ubuntu...

So lets round up...

-Buy a mac(With atlest more than 2gb ram[My school uses 3mb for the libary pc's], lol)
-Buy some External HDD's & CD's
-Download and install Win7/winXP + Ubuntu 9.0.4
-Get your required progs(Photoshop CS3-4, Sony-Vegas, etc)
-GL ; HF!




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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 19:37
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Pshh, I wouldn't get a mac for that reason, especially if you need to save your money to pay off that college debt. I'd get a pc just as good for 1/2 the price, and then perhaps get some good open-source or otherwise alternative audio programs.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 19:39
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well if you attend devry, go PC. Since they make all their websites and software work only with IE and windows.

Oh, and if you go Mac(which i have) keep in mind you'll likely do most of the troubleshooting yourself when it comes to university sites not loading or citrix being a royal pain.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 23:38 Edited at: 11th Jun 2009 23:41
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Mac = Fail

Why pay more for something which will almost always have worse specs than a cheap PC? Especially if you're trying to save on money. It's not like there's anything essential you can do on a mac that you can't do on a PC just as well if not better.

The only real benefits I can see in having a Mac is its aesthetic appeal, and if you really care about that, you can make windows XP look almost identical with themes and things.

And I'm sick of apple's advertising scheme of constantly putting PCs down. If your going to advertise, advertise FOR your product, not against someone elses. Maybe there is just nothing good left to say about the Mac so that's why they do it...


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 23:52
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Quote: "you can make windows XP look almost identical"


Except it doesn't have that pretty compositor. It has a stacking window manager. Hmm, XP with a compositor... *salivates like a true geek*

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draknir_
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 23:54
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Quote: "when it comes to recording and audio/video creation stuff, Mac's have an edge"


Where does this myth come from?
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:03
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It's called marketing.

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Roxas
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:07
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If you need something cheap and one that is superior to both install Ubuntu, if you need expensive buy Mac, if you want Unstable install Windows.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:49
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Quote: "if you want Unstable install Windows."

Ya and if you want a useless console interface install Linux.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:52
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Quote: "if you want Unstable install Windows."

Quote: "Ya and if you want a useless console interface install Linux."


Lol, you guys are both wrong .

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Benjamin
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:56
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I'm not wrong, some versions come without a GUI, thus they are all text-based.

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ionstream
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 00:56
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Quote: "Where does this myth come from? "


I think it comes from way back in the day, when maybe this was true.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:04
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Quote: "I'm not wrong, some versions come without a GUI, thus they are all text-based."


Now that is an statement that has no foundation in reality, lol. That a few is one thing does not mean they all are.

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Roxas
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:16
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Quote: "Ya and if you want a useless console interface install Linux."

Yes.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:19
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And most of all... if you want to end up in a pointless argument, mention Linux, Mac or Windows!

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AlexI
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:21 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 01:25
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Debian etch with KDE run very nicely if you are going for Linux.
However I would only really recommend Linux for servers or just basic web browsing, etc

If not go for windows.

Macs suck. Who cares about there design/marketing unless your really care that much about your image. Functionality and compatiblity is far more important. Which Windows offers.

People say Mac's are more reliable, but thats only because offer less content, which means there is less potential problems.


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Diggsey
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:32
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I like my OpenSUSE distro for a server, but would find it a pain to use as my desktop


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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:32
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Quote: "People say Mac's are more reliable, but thats only because offer less content, which means there is less potential problems."


Well I think the main reason is that they create both the hardware and software so there are less potential problems.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:35 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 01:42
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I wouldn't say Mac = fail, I think there's more peace of mind with a Mac and I've found things to work more smoothly and have never had anything get in my way in when using them. I can't say the same about Windows or Linux. The price of Mac is perhaps closer to that of an expensive brand of PC, because no doubt they spend more on the hardware they used and putting it together. For example, my Laptop is an Acer, I looked at a Sony Vaio of a similar spec and a MacBook Pro, the different in price between the Acer and the Mac is £500, the difference between the Acer and Sony is £300. If I had the extra £300 I would have gone for a Sony Vaio, with the extra £500 I would have gone for the Mac. My laptop is not as well built. So although my laptop does it job, there's perhaps not as much peace of mind (I've already sent it back once) with a more expensive one.

As far as for which is best for the job, that one depends on the user. My Mum is an illustrator and couldn't stand using Windows XP for the job, she tried using Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop on there and she hated using a PC for the job. When she got herself a Mac, she refuses to use a PC. Some do just find Macs more convenient to use.

Roxas, I don't think Linux is ideal for somebody going to study music/audio, a lot of the software won't work on it straight out of the box and I doubt many people use Linux in that industry.


Sorry for this long post, but I thought I'd put a bit of defense in there, despite being a PC user, but the reason I am a PC user but DBP, my games won't work straight onto a Mac and can't afford one. OS's have their plus sides and down sides and people find themselves working better with some OS's than others.


[edit]
Quote: "Quote: "People say Mac's are more reliable, but thats only because offer less content, which means there is less potential problems."

Well I think the main reason is that they create both the hardware and software so there are less potential problems. "


I would so, you would think when they create the hardware that they'd know how to make the OS work best with it. Windows has to work with far more hardware configurations.

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AlexI
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:36 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 01:48
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Quote: "
Well I think the main reason is that they create both the hardware and software"


Which also means all the software compared to windows is generally more expensive.

Also developing for OSX is pain, the developer documentation is pretty poor too, compared to MSDN

Edit: Just came across this



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Mr Z
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:52
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Quote: "
I would so, you would think when they create the hardware that they'd know how to make the OS work best with it. Windows has to work with far more hardware configurations."


Yep, heard hackingtosh has quite a lot of compability problems for this reason, but do not take my word for it.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:54 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 01:54
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Linux's only use in the media industry is for render farms.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:56
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ooohhh, David R is gonna do some flaming when he finds out we've been talking bad about the mac this time.

But yeah, if you are going to choose a system that's not compatible with a lot of things, you may as well go with linux.

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Satchmo
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 03:06
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Maybe if apple didn't spend so much money lying in their advertisments they might be able to make their computers better and not charge and arm and a leg extra for them.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 03:10 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 03:13
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Quote: "But yeah, if you are going to choose a system that's not compatible with a lot of things, you may as well go with linux."


Which is not going to help a music student.


I'm sure Sp3ng was looking for some helpful computer advice related to which would be best for him as a music student going to University. Pressumably the advantages of using one OS or the disadvantages of another and perhaps even advice related to the industry. Not Apple Mac bashing and OS wars.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 04:18
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There are plenty of good music making programs for linux - and if there are some that he can't get a hold of, he may as well do it in windows so that he can save some precious cash.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 06:02
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I find this really funny, but I bet a majority of people here saying how bad the Mac is don't actually even use one. Hence why I can't really offer advice, I've rarely used a Mac. They are a sweet looking machine, and what I've heard about them as generally been good. They also retain a lot of value, so even after about 2 years you can sell them for a really good price.

My main reason for not switching over to a Mac is, I'm a gamer and Mac doesn't have (Or ever will) DirectX support. So for now I'm a happy Windows Vista user greatly looking forward to Windows 7!

I'd say stick with what you know.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 06:22
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I'm in the same boat as Vader.

Personally, I do not argue which OS is the 'best'. In my mind, they're all great for different (and similar) reasons. The only one I've ever really used has been Windows, however I have played on Macs and I do like the look of Ubuntu. It depends on what you want/need out of the OS.

I like all the OSes of the world, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!


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David R
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 10:38
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Quote: "The only real benefits I can see in having a Mac is its aesthetic appeal, and if you really care about that, you can make windows XP look almost identical with themes and things."


I personally think the advantage of a Mac (OS aside) is the engineering/design, outside of aesthetics. A really good example of this is the power adapter for the Macbook - it's not extra special, and certainly doesn't justify the price tag, but I would say Macs are definitely better designed for "real world" use than cheaper products (the power adapter, the compact power brick, the two-finger scroll on the track pad, full size keyboard, backlit keys etc.) - you're paying cash for the aesthetic side, sure - but you're also paying for some pretty clever engineering and ideas (some of which you can understand the premium price tag for, amazingly)

In terms of OS X, I would certainly pay premium for a Mac just to run it - which is presumably their sales strategy, but I would say it's a very effective one at that. The key thing with OS X is the layout of it - the file organization and the low level way in which it works is very clean, and it certainly appeals to my programmer/development sentiments. The major other thing, is that it lets me get on and code, without continually notifying me about pointless rubbish. The whole thing is elegant, well thought out, and lets you get on with work. That's it. To anyone who hasn't used it, it's hard to explain (I can guarantee all the Windows users are now riled up saying "I CANZ WORKZ TOO ON WINDOWS!") - it's certainly more about what it doesn't do than what it actually does. Which is tricky to explain

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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 12:51
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I'd wait a few months until the next OS'es come out, and then use the following chart to decide:

Comparison.

I've used both OS'es but I still have to side with consensus here, you have to try whats best. Find out what applications will be used at your study and try to find Mac alternatives for your Windows software. Adium replaces MSN, although without webcam support, and OpenOffice.org or Mac Office can replace Office rather well.

Apples are more stable and more reliable than most Windows-based computers due to the OS exclusivity and usual high-quality materials. On top of that, if it's shiny and made by Apple, some people would buy anything. Many chicks seriously dig Apple.

On the flipside, Apple is limited in many aspects. So basically, if you're Windows-based, I'd say check out an Apple Store. Toy around with one of the Macbooks, ask around a bit. Google if you can do what you want with a Mac. And if you really think the Mac's a good idea, go for the Mac. Otherwise, stay Windows.


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 15:28
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Excellent post Rami! Except that link to the comparison... I fail to understand why so many people give Microsoft a load of you-know-what!

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Satchmo
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 15:31
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Quote: "Excellent post Rami! Except that link to the comparison... I fail to understand why so many people give Microsoft a load of you-know-what!"


It's the Onion, so it's obviously joking.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 15:35
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Yeah the Onion is a fake news site, it's just satire, some of it is quite funny.

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sp3ng
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 16:13
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thanks for the replies guys, i knew this would be argument bait when i started so im not surprised lol

for the people who suggested ubuntu, i have tried it (dual booted my current pc) and it was alright for a while, but it got annoying when various problems started popping up (sound not working in youtube and the like).

as for audio engineering on the mac, i know that there are a heap of industry standard programs out there for mac, ProTools being one of them.

my drum teacher uses Logic Studio and it produces some pretty good quality recording, i'll only really be using it for demoing my band anyway, for an actual album, we'll go to a studio and get it done properly

as for cash, that shouldnt be a problem anymore, i've made a deal with my parents that if i get an OP score (the annoyingly complicated high-school exit grade system we have in queensland) of between 1 and 10, they will buy the laptop for me.

i think i will go with a mac, just cause i'm beginning to dislike windows (maybe thats just because my current pc is woeful, i dont know), but i've pretty much fallen in love with the 2009 MacBook Pro models, so i may get one of those. and anyway, no matter what, i still plan on dual booting with windows xp, so i always have that option

again, thanks for the replies

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AlexI
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 17:47 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 17:50
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Quote: "but I bet a majority of people here saying how bad the Mac is don't actually even use one"


I have a Mac at home & access to 20 Mac Books and 20 IMacs. I still dislike them.

I much prefer my 3 home windows PC's and the over 500 XP workstations at work.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 18:35
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I used a mac for quite some time at many of the art seminars/classes I attended and hate them more than before I used them.

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Seppuku Arts
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Well, they're not for everyone.

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Alucard94
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I've been a mac user for a couple of years now and I love it. Currently running one of those fancy new Macbook Pro's.


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Lazlazlaz 1
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 23:34
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I use Mac at work and PC at home. Macs have a cleaner environment even though I keep a nice clean PC, and are useful for a speedy workflow, PC's are better for gaming. Both are good.

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kklouzal
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Didn't bill gate's roomie in college steal his prototype windows and turn it into mac?

Wow lets all promote theft and buy macs!!

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Jun 2009 12:38
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Uh... no. If anything, the only thing that's been stolen from again and again is Xerox and they never get any credit for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto

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David R
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Posted: 13th Jun 2009 13:06 Edited at: 13th Jun 2009 13:09
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Being fair to Apple though, Xerox didn't realise the value/significance of what they had made, and allowed companies to visit and see the technology.

Apple actually had a deal with Xerox - engineer visits in exchange for stock in Apple, with the understanding that Apple was making the first GUI product with their tech. Hence, Apple was far from stealing Xerox technology. MS on the other hand, had no deal with Xerox or Apple.

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