Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Going to school for web dev vs books?

Author
Message
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 04:59 Edited at: 20th Jun 2009 05:03
Link
I know there have been discussions of a similar nature regarding programming, but would school make sense for something as fast changing as web dev?

I have a bit of a wandering mind so I do not see myself just reading books at home and getting the knowledge I need. I have meddled with with html and such since high school and have designed sites for lots of people on these forums but only the graphics side. I feel I need to be in a traditional classroom setting but would like to know what other people have done. I don't know why, but I still just have the urge to "create" and the business/accounting thing I am doing now is just not it. I don't care about bridges or buildings so civil engineering is out of the question.

My goal is being able to code sites like like social networking and online commerce, so it's a bit more advanced than making pretty CSS blogs. I am intimidated because I follow many "web entrepreneurs" like Mark Zuckerberg and Kevin Rose and they were basically child geniuses, so my hopes are not up. I realize the first obvious idea is a computer science degree, but I am looking to cut out the middle man and get straight to this new internet boom all the kids are talking about lately.

Thanks
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 06:29 Edited at: 20th Jun 2009 06:40
Link
If you have the urge to create, have you considered something like Product Design Engineering? There will always be a demand for engineers.

I'm no expert, but I can imagine the Web Dev scene is a little saturated and if your not prepared to do a Computer Science degree, you might find yourself in a little bother.

Teach yourself books can be incredibly dull at times. If you are looking for a way to teach yourself, I recommend Lynda.com

I purchased a couple of CSS and xHTMl DVDs from there a while ago and I was pretty much fluent within a couple of weeks.

(I know HTML and CSS isn't much of a challenge, but its much quicker than learning from a book)

For $25 a month, you could have access to all the training materials... which is a pretty good deal in my opinion!

[EDIT] Here is Lynda.com's List for Web Development. Each course allows you to listen to the first couple of chapters of videos, so you can get an idea if it would suit you or not:
http://www.lynda.com/home/ViewCourses.aspx?lpk0=118

Hope that helps.

Back to top
Profile PM
Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 11:06 Edited at: 20th Jun 2009 11:07
Link
Megaton, the two web dev classes I took in college sat us down with a book and told us to go through each chapter and do the assignments. Save yourself the time and money and just teach yourself.

Save the cash for a server or something

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Wehtam_
User Deleted
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 11:13
Link
I Agree with BigAdd, I followed the route of DVD tutorials and purchased one of the Live Lessons series ( PHP and MySQL ):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MySQL-Video-Training-livelessons-Prentice/dp/0137155751/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245485367&sr=8-1

So far i'm finding it fantastic!

Designers loooove Web developers, there will always be a need for a smart programmer to turn a designers series of layers into a website, stick with your ambitions

Click Creative Magazine - The free, online design magazine
Back to top
Profile PM
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 20:29
Link
Or you can team up with a web developer who has the experience in programming commerce and web 2.0 sites, but who sucks at design, and build a company that way. There's no reason why you would have to go at that kind of business alone.

North Korea 2007 Tour Pictures
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 20th Jun 2009 23:49 Edited at: 20th Jun 2009 23:51
Link
I've heard that from other people too Sid...apparently the instructors themselves weren't really all that knowledgeable with the latest trends. (Some just being gurus of design from the early internet boom)

Quote: "There's no reason why you would have to go at that kind of business alone."


Well you're basically slashing your profit in half (sometimes more so as I don't value graphics as much as code) and you'll always be dependent on another person.

Graphics don't actually even take that long, all that time is spent on planning, which ultimately is pretty pointless as all design is subjective. I have slaved for 2 weeks and have been told something is "meh" but for every incident like that I get twice as many occasions where I poop out masterpieces in one hour. Sometimes I even feel secretly guilty billing a client $100 for a logo it took me less than 10 minutes to make just because the simple idea struck.

You can't really slave away for that long making functional code and being told it's "meh". Science beats art this time.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Jun 2009 01:54
Link
Quote: "Well you're basically slashing your profit in half (sometimes more so as I don't value graphics as much as code) and you'll always be dependent on another person."


But look at any major website or, say, a video game, and look how many people work on them. Yes you cut your profit in half, but you also save time, and you are able to spend more time finetuning and learning your desired craft (graphics) instead of being a jack of all trades and master of none.

For me, I've spent maybe 1% of my time devoted to learning how to do graphics for games I've worked on. I realized from the start of my iPhone game that I needed some help from a real artist, which is why I enlisted the help of a friend. Sometimes you need to make a sacrifice to earn more income in the long run.

But, if you're actually interested in learning how to program (programming a site like Facebook isn't exactly a walk in the park), then you can be one of those rare breeds of tech artists I am jealous if you can do that.

North Korea 2007 Tour Pictures
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 21st Jun 2009 03:17 Edited at: 21st Jun 2009 03:18
Link
I don't really think you can compare the artwork for a site like Facebook to art in a video game...

Doing both code/graphics is actually very common now for designers and maybe even necessary to get ahead. I would actually say one would be aiming a bit low to specialize in just one...why not just go all out and learn both? It makes sense, think of it like an RPG game, they're both synergies that you would naturally want to level up and add exp points too.

I've seen your iPhone game, the art looks really nice, but to be honest it's all just gradients, fill effects, embedded buttons, stock images. Nothing you can't really do yourself once you find out how.

An interface like Diablo 3 for example is different, as you can tell every graphic is a 3d render/painfully hand drawn.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Jun 2009 04:07
Link
Quote: "I don't really think you can compare the artwork for a site like Facebook to art in a video game..."


I'm not comparing the two. I'm saying they both require many programmers and artists. I have worked professionally on both, and I have never seen someone do the job of artist and programmer (aside from tech artists, but they're not as hardcore).

Quote: "I've seen your iPhone game, the art looks really nice, but to be honest it's all just gradients, fill effects, embedded buttons, stock images. Nothing you can't really do yourself once you find out how."


Well he will take exception to you saying they're "stock images". Alexis created all the 3D art himself and took the photos himself. As for "gradients, fill effects, and embedded buttons", what are you getting at? If it looks good who cares how it's made?

Quote: "An interface like Diablo 3 for example is different, as you can tell every graphic is a 3d render/painfully hand drawn. "


Well that further proves my point. You won't find too many artists who can make an interface like that *and* program the game.

North Korea 2007 Tour Pictures
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 21st Jun 2009 06:00 Edited at: 21st Jun 2009 06:04
Link
The one I refereed to as stock images was this one:



I do apologize if the background map and pyramids where made from scratch. The rest of the art definitely looks within the learning potential of a regular programmer if he put an effort towards it.

I was mainly talking about web graphics though and didn't really want to venture into games.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Jun 2009 06:53
Link
Stock images refers to images you can purchase for your media, right? He made every single piece of art himself, and none of them are stock

North Korea 2007 Tour Pictures
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-05-31 21:32:02
Your offset time is: 2025-05-31 21:32:02