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Geek Culture / Sigh...

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Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 07:49
Plus you're asking for all these extra support modules (Physics, AI, etc.) which cost extra as well. If you can afford a few add-on modules then you can afford DBP.

Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 11:13 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2009 11:18
DBC is cheaper and an old product TGC developed, it's in their past and you can't expect them, whilst they're dedicating their time to their main products to make everything work across old products (do you expect MS to still support Windows 98 or Apple to support MacOS 9? Or Maxon to still support Cinema 4D 7?), DBC was great when I used it and DBC users as far as I can see manage just fine without the extra features and support DBP gets, bearing in mind DBP is more expensive, thus users are going to get the better stuff, but look at Starwraith, Evachron and Soul Hunter, they're all sexy looking, well made products that didn't need any of these extra tools, if you really need them, upgrade, if you can't afford it, make do.

Out of the plugins you get for DBP, I'm only using Sparky's DLL (which works with DBC), a D3D dll because DBP's text slows down the FPS too much and Evolved's shaders (which you can't expect DBC to support because its built on an older version of DirectX). All of the fancy TGC released functions are just a convenience, and one I'm not paying money for unless I have the spare cash for them. Sparky's is just fine for collision and I don't need DarkPhysics, I don't need Dark AI because I can code my own AI and well, if you want to buy the extra modules, as Jeku rightly says you still need to pay money for them, so instead of buying those, buy DBP and grab the free user-made alternatives to the plugins. (instead of DP download Newton, instead of Unity, download Barnski's LUA plugin for example)

dark coder
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 12:30
It's already been mentioned but I like beating dead horses:

DBC is old and it uses very outdated technology(DX7?), thus supporting it would be a waste of time and money because it won't get many new users(money) and not many people use it now. There's virtually no advantage to using DBC over DBPro unless you consider being able to run on absolutely ancient PCs to be an advantage. If you can't afford it then wash some cars or try DarkGDK as it's completely free.

Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 12:55
If you can't afford DBPro, or convince a parent to buy it for you, then this sort of game development is not for you.

Seriously, TGC cannot spend time developing a language which has alread developed onto a pro version. DBPro see, it means a professional version of DB classic, so really if you want to see DB develop, check out the product it already developed into.

DBPro is capable of taking a plugin quite easily, in fact DBPro considers everything to be a plugin, even the language core is a library. To enable DBC to take plugins in the same way would take months of work, if it's even possible.

But this argument is pointless anyway, if people were buying DBC in decent numbers then it would be developed further, TGC has to concentrate on the products that people buy - it's called customer support, and spending $30 7 years ago does not entitle you to lifelong support.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Benjamin
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 12:59
I'd say go with DarkGDK as it's cheaper ($0.00) and you can use it from C++ which is a far superior language in every aspect.

Insert Name Here
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th Mar 2007
Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 20:10
1) DBC is less powerful
2) DBP is only marginally more expensive
3) DBC is outdated
4) DBP has a larger user base
5) It is more productive for TGC to spend time developing DBP that DBC.

Just buy DBP already.

Diggsey
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 24th Apr 2006
Location: On this web page.
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 00:52
You think TGC are bad because they have stopped updating DBC and concentrate on DBPro??? In case you haven't noticed, every other software company makes you re-buy EVERY NEW VERSION of their product! With DBC you get the free upgrade, and with DBPro you get free updates.
Considering the enormous differences between DBPro and DBC, it's not really asking much to get you to pay to get the upgrade from DBC to DBPro.
From a commercial company point of view, updating DBC up to a level anywhere near the standard of DBPro would require large amounts of time and money, and would only reduce their sales of DBPro.

In short, if you want more features, get DBPro. There's no reason why TGC should have to provide us with free upgrades, it is only through their generosity that we don't have to pay every time DBPro goes up a major version.

Herakles
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 6th Mar 2009
Location: Lost in my own head
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 02:14 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 02:17
EDIT: Nevermind. I didn't see that we were on a second page.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
draknir_
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 19th Oct 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 11:53
I think the horse has been well and truly beaten into a bloody mess and been left to rot in the sun for a few days now, but I insist on chiming in: GET DBPRO.
kklouzal
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 15th May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 12:16
Or just get DarkGDK and spend the money you would have spent on DBP to buy your dark ai/dark phys!!


profit.

Brick Break
User Banned
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 21:30
I left a support inquiry with TGC and they said they've stopped supporting DBC, and called DBPro an "upgrade". Yeah, thanks.

Jeff Miller
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 22:05
No longer supporting it? That is different than not upgrading or developing add-ons. That is unusual because TGC is still offering DBC for sale on this site.
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 23:08 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 23:09
It's strange how it's still being offered on the site...they should just cut it out and maybe offer original DBC buyers a discount on DBP.

I still have my DBC box and manual kicking around and once it goes extinct, it shall become a collectors item. Bwahhaa.
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 23:17
If you buy the DarkGameStudio bundle it includes both DBC, DBP and some add-ons. It's fairly cheap considering all the stuff that you get.

Grog Grueslayer
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th May 2005
Playing: Green Hell
Posted: 24th Jun 2009 23:57
I see Classic like a Model-T Ford. Yeah it was a revolution when they were made... but the cars today are much better. Make any program in Classic and run it in Pro and it runs 100 times faster. Why keep focusing on a version of Darkbasic that makes all your code run below it's full potential?

Jeff Miller
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 00:18
At least it's not being hawked on the academic license page.
I'm still troubled over offering it for sale without conspicuously stating that it is not supported if in fact it is not supported. In my neck of the woods the implication of selling a software product is that it is supported, absent some express disclaimer of support.
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 01:18
The reason, I assume, that they're selling it is for a cheaper program and for something to run on older systems. DBC I think is a good beginner's package as well. I think in terms of features you should know what you're getting when you buy it, new features or additions are not implied. Working software and support if it doesn't work is implied with an advertised and sold product, but DBC is a quite solid.

Darkowen
19
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Joined: 10th Jan 2006
Location:
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 03:22 Edited at: 25th Jun 2009 03:23
Isn't DBP supposed to be the updated version of classic?...isnt that why its called classic?


Download the beta at http://www.evilpigeon.co.uk
gamerboots
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 03:41
Quote: "No Dark Dragon don't turn to the dark side! "

yes come to the dark side of the force ! just had to throw that in here lol
I own both and I can tell you that dbc is easier, but dbp has way
more things added and its 2d engine is a lot more stable than dbc's
The other side of the coin is dbp is project based so you cant open multiple projects and source files at once. So if you want to open up an old source file that has some cool snips in it you will have to do it in notepad or darkedit ( which perfectly compliments dbc btw ) otherwise dbp will prompt you to close what your working on and make a project out of it.

Regards
Emperor Gamerboots~
Grog Grueslayer
Valued Member
20
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Joined: 30th May 2005
Playing: Green Hell
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 04:38 Edited at: 25th Jun 2009 04:40
I have both too but I don't see Classic as easier. In Pro I use BlueIDE and if I forget the syntax of a command I simply click on the Help tab to the right side of the screen and click on the command in my code (to the left). It shows the help in that small area without covering my code. In Classic it loads Internet Explorer in full screen and usually doesn't automatically look up the command. I have to click on Commands or Index and find it myself.

BlueIDE also has a tab called Library (right by the Help tab) where you can store code snips that you find useful. Click twice on a code snip and and it instantly copies it into your code.

If you click View and select Project Organization it allows us to add notes for Version History, To-Do List, and straight Notes to save in the project file. Giving us an easy way to store all the info we need and to never forget what we've done, where we're going on a project, and what we want in the future.

Pro makes coding life easier to manage.

http://blueide.sourceforge.net/

gamerboots
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 04:47
its ashamed they dont speak more of it. I'll let you know how it turns out

Regards
Emperor Gamerboots~
BMacZero
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Dec 2005
Location: E:/ NA / USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 04:49
Everything that I would say has already been said...





Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
gamerboots
16
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Joined: 8th Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 05:36
@bmacZero
LOL, love the pic. you can repeat it if you like

Regards
Emperor Gamerboots~
PW Productions
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Mar 2009
Location: sitting in a chair.
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 07:07 Edited at: 25th Jun 2009 07:07
Don't forget (for those of you who have FPSC X9) that the X9 source code only works with DBP v1.066 and not with DBC, so I had to download the DBP trial just to see it...

A mod has been ENGULFED by your signature - Please reduce it to 600x120 maximum size to allow mods to continue with their jobs.

-Er... Did I read that wrong?
Clbembry
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 08:50
Its like the difference between the first Photoshop and Photoshop CS4...

They do make updates for DBC, its called DBPro.
gamerboots
16
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Joined: 8th Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 11:54
@bmac
Noticed you got a title too but that beating horse pic is just halarious

Regards
Emperor Gamerboots~
BMacZero
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Dec 2005
Location: E:/ NA / USA
Posted: 25th Jun 2009 16:17
Quote: "Noticed you got a title too"

Yeah, but I have to keep re-winning this one in the 3D competitions . It's still cool though .

Animated smilies FTW .



Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
Dark Dragon
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Jun 2007
Location: In the ring, Kickin\' *donkeybutt*.
Posted: 27th Jun 2009 01:43
Can we stop with the flamming? Michel just died

Seriously. I'm switching. Case closed.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was too big.CHANGE IT OR DIE!!!!!
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 27th Jun 2009 02:22
I have been thinking about getting DBP for a while now but Classic has kept me occupied for years and I'm still learning new tricks.
As a hobbyist I actually like the fact it's less powerful; I'm never going to make a game that pushes a computer to the limits and if I did it would be from bad coding. So having a weaker language means I have to be smart to get the most out of it. It's the same reason people write games on their calculators.

That Dark Game Studio does look appealing though... one day... one day.

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.

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