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Geek Culture / Commodore 64 on the iPhone

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JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 22:33
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http://www.fanboy.com/2009/06/c64-iphone.html

Recently Apple denied an amazing project for the iPhone. a c64 emulator. The sad thing about this is that they did what they were supposed to: got the rights to make this app, and Apple even acted like they liked the project idea from the beginning. They denied it with no good reason from what I can find.

The way Apple controls the app store is quite frustrating, if you ask me. I can understand why they would want to avoid illegal (or even questionable) emulation or adult material in the app store. But this is perfectly legal, and very very well made. I just don't understand why they would deny such an awesome app!

Check out that interview, if you don't read it, at least watch the video at the end! It's quite the awesome app!

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 22:49
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Don't iPhone owners jailbreak their phones and get this anyway?
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Alucard94
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 23:00 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2009 23:00
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Quote: "Don't iPhone owners jailbreak their phones and get this anyway?"

Most likely, there are tons of emulators available for the jailbreak community and I'm sure this'll pop up on there if it hasn't already.


Alucard94, lacking proper intelligence.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 03:45
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Jailbreaking your phone doesn't solve the problem though. Apple is obviously just picking and choosing what they want, with no real rules or logic to their choosing.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 03:57
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This is why I hate Apple.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 04:22
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That's so stupid. What was the reason that apple gave for not accepting it?
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 04:23
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Quote: "Jailbreaking your phone doesn't solve the problem though"


I thought if you jailbreak your phone you can install any homebrew on it? Why wouldn't this work?
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Venge
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 04:52
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Quote: "This is why I hate Apple."


Don'tcha know? An Apple a day keeps the ingenuity away.


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AndrewT
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 04:55 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 05:59
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Quote: "I thought if you jailbreak your phone you can install any homebrew on it? Why wouldn't this work? "


The problem isn't that there's no way to get it on your iPod/iPhone, it's that Apple's approval system is (supposedly) flawed.

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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 05:11
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Quote: "They denied it with no good reason from what I can find."


The reason is spelled out on Apple's SDK: "an Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means.". That includes ROMs which the emulator executes. It's a clear violation of the terms.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 06:21
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Ok, fair enough, but that doesn't justify Apple leading them on making them think that this is acceptable. From the article:
Quote: "we spoke to the Sr. Partnership Manager, iPod & iPhone, Apple Europe in the UK, who concluded that we were okay with our approach and that Apple was actually interested in our concept"


Besides, it doesn't specifically exclude ROMs. They're not exactly executable. It's arguable, I know. But it's code that telling the emulator what to do. It's not like it's one app installing or launching another app. It's all sandboxed into the emulator itself.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 07:31 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 07:32
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Quote: "it's that Apple's approval system is (supposedly) flawed."


So just don't use the Apple store? Clearly good apps are going to reach consumers by word of mouth anyway so I don't really see why the middle man is relevant here.

But an emulator stills sounds kinda risque, ROMs still have legal issues behind them even if they're very old.
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 09:15
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Don't worry, with the latest 3.0 SDK update in app purchasing has been made available! Meaning people can by the emulator and the purchase the 'roms' as separate games.

Of course that would possibly require a complete program overhaul, and it still might be hard to get around what Jeku pointed out. Also,
http://toucharcade.com/2009/06/22/a-closer-look-at-c64s-rejection/
That also backs up what Jeku said.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 11:26
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Quote: "But an emulator stills sounds kinda risque, ROMs still have legal issues behind them even if they're very old. "

This is why the author got permission from the right places before doing what he did

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 14:59
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I read about this issue that there is a Sonic game for the iPhone which is actually just a ROM and and a wrapper emulator and so you can just drop your own SMD in the folder. So this claim of executable code is BS.

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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 18:01 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 18:02
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I guess a single Sonic game is not as obvious to be a ROM to the unsuspecting eye. An app that is advertised as a C64 emulator with many games that you load up to play is obviously a problem for them (I guess).

Quote: "So just don't use the Apple store? Clearly good apps are going to reach consumers by word of mouth anyway so I don't really see why the middle man is relevant here."


I think technically it's illegal in many countries to jailbreak your iPhone and install apps that are not from the official Apple store. 99% of people have no alternative choice to get apps from aside from the app store.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 20:33
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I guessed Apple would not approve but...that's the nature of electronics. I saw this one app that basically let you turn your iPhone into a wireless router and connect to it on your laptop. It was banned from the apple store but...the users are paying for every mb on their data plan and should be able to use it how they want right?
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Alucard94
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 20:40
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Quote: "I guessed Apple would not approve but...that's the nature of electronics. I saw this one app that basically let you turn your iPhone into a wireless router and connect to it on your laptop. It was banned from the apple store but...the users are paying for every mb on their data plan and should be able to use it how they want right?"

That's most likely because of the recent 3.0 software update (Or the new iPhone, can't recall which) does this natively.


Alucard94, lacking proper intelligence.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 20:47 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 20:52
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Well I'm referring to the older model long before. I doubt Apple banned it because they were eager to please fans with an update that could do this natively for free the next day. No, a business would put a nail in anything they can't laugh all the way to the bank with and that's why they killed the C64 emulator. They realized they couldn't charge for individual roms and god forbid would a user be able to pay one fee to get the emulator and then maybe buy/download roms from anyone other than apple.

I do believe the newer one has steeper rates also but maybe that's just with our provider in Canada.
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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 21:48
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Well with the 3.0 update it fully adds support for microtransactions and purchasing DLC for games. Apple will still get their 30% share of the pie.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 22:18
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I may not have an iPhone, but I really do not like what Apple did here.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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David R
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 00:53 Edited at: 25th Jun 2009 00:59
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Yeah, I really do not like the fact they rejected an app based on a clause in the terms and conditions, which you have to agree to in order to submit an app to begin with

EDIT:
Quote: " Yes, we spoke to the Sr. Partnership Manager, iPod & iPhone, Apple Europe in the UK, who concluded that we were okay with our approach and that Apple was actually interested in our concept"


One thing I've learnt from being around corporate-types, is that "We're interested" means "We want a contract" or "We want to take control of this project ourselves".

Also, being "OK with the approach" doesn't mean "continue to breach our terms and conditions" - without seeing how they worded their questions/emails, you can't know whether Apple is actually in the wrong here. Unless they explicitly stated the app emulated/used ROMs, the Snr. guy probably had no reason to expect it (he probably knows zilch about C64 and actual apps etc. - he's a big cheese), and the "approach" they were OK with was probably related to the downloadable content they mention later

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