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DarkBASIC Discussion / Would You Recommend DB?

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AcP2142
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 20:27
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Hello fellow game makers!!!! I think this is the right place to post this since it is concerning DarkBASIC. I have some minimal BASIC knowledge and have used game making programs(not programming) for a while now and so I would like to know if you would recommend DarkBASIC for someone like me. It seems like a REALLY good program and the community seems great but I am not sure whether or not I should get it. Of course I don\'t expect you to make a decision for but I would just like to know your guy\'s opinions on DarkBASIC. Just so you know I do not plan on making a MMORPG as soon as I get it or for that matter.... ever. I will start very small with stuff like text based games and then work my way up to 3D games hopefully. I do really want to make games though and this definitely seems like a good option. If I do get it then you MIGHT see some decent games from me.


AcP2142

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Robert The Robot
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 21:03 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 21:04
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Hello and welcome to the forums!

In answer to your question, DB is a fantastic language that was dead easy for me to learn - with virtually no knowledge of programming, it took me about two months to master the basics. You'll probably handle things a lot quicker, as you sound like you know what you're doing already.

The only thing I would say, is that you shouldn't expect DBC to do things for you. Gamemakers (like FPS Creator) handle AI, pathfinding, and game physics for you but as a programmer you'll have to write it all from scratch yourself. It can be tricky, but if you really want to achieve it then you'll find that DBC will be a great asset.

Your best bet might be to download the free 30 day trial of DBC and try it out for yourself. You can find it here.

Hope this is of some use!

"I wish I was a spaceman, the fastest guy alive. I'd fly you round the universe, in Fireball XL5..."
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AcP2142
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 21:49
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OK!! Thank you very much for the link to the trial version. I do know that it won't do stuff for me mainly because of my prior BASIC experience. I will try out the trial but I think I will probably get DarkBASIC anyway. It sounds very easy to learn and I have seen some of the games that can be created with it. Thank you once again for the welcome and the response.

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Bluestar4
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 21:58
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to answer your question , in a single word :
Absolutely!
You can easily make an "if" type game loading your own bitmaps and displaying text with only 2 commands

load bitmap "yourbitmap.bmp"
text 4,4,"whatever you want to say"

bluestar4~
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AcP2142
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 22:23
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ok cool man. i will definitely be getting this!! also... the trial version doesn't exist anymore. i might not even be able to get DarkBASIC until December. But as soon as I do get it I will be creating games.(after I learn the language better of course)

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 22:35
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try googling DarkBASIC trial version, you should be able to find it somewhere

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AcP2142
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 22:46
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thank you smart guy!! what is your opinion on DarkBASIC?

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 05:13
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Sorry for the noobspeak guys, but I can't resist:

DarkBASIC=1337!

In all seriousness, I came on about 4-5 years ago with some moderate basic knowledge and DBC was very easy to learn (kinda easy to learn but hard to master style though). It is easy to pump out small simple things as you learn and you can do pretty much anything with it (though it is better for games than apps).

I would suggest getting the book for it. It really slingshotted me into understanding everything. It is called "The Beginner's Guide To DarkBASIC Game Programming" and is about 700 pages. It is a great read and very helpful. I still use it today to brush up on some commands here and there that I forget about.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 05:21
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i would agree with bn2, DarkBASIC is awesome!!!

its got such simple and direct syntax that even a caveman can do it, (I always feel like somebodys watching me)

sorry, had a geico moment there, lol

but ya for example if you need to make a cube then the command is literally "make object cube", no confusing garbled programmer talk needed.

I started programming ahbout 2 years ago and in that short of time I have already achieved what many people on here call a skillful and masterful knowledge of programming

but joking aside it is a great and easy to learn language

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AcP2142
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 05:22
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thank you!!! wow who would have guessed that DarkBASIC was leet? I will probably get the book when I get DarkBASIC. I only plan on making games with at anyway so that aspect is great. Hey I tried to talk to you in the Noobs Wanted thread. DO you think that once I get DarkBASIC and learn how to make some simple games that I could possibly join DarkNOOBS? Just wondering because in the answer is yes then that would be great. I will talk to you later.

https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/1708993
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Bluestar4
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 13:31
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before you buy a book , read the included manual. You wont need a book if you do. , and btw, the manual is in .doc format wieghing in at slightly less than 1meg. If thats not enough , there is also documentation in html format included.

bluestar4~
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AcP2142
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 16:54
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Okay I will do that when I buy it. In the meantime I will just practice using normal BASIC to make text based games and learn all the commands. A lot of the same commands exist in both right? Anyway... I really want to get it right now but I can't. It will be a while but at least I will get it.

https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/1708993
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Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 12:39
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Quote: "Would You Recommend DB?"

No, this is the DBC board so of course we all hate DBC here.
Buy it, and share your error messages with the community

There is an eight letter word. You can insert a letter into it or remove a letter from it without changing its meaning. Answer
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 13:00
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I don't have anything against Darkbasic Classic but Darkbasic Pro has more commands, runs faster, and is just as easy to program as Classic.

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arbiter chewbacca hybrid
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 14:19
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But you said
Quote: " I will start very small with stuff like text based games "
and you will find DBC is very easy to use when making text games such as...




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AcP2142
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 15:40 Edited at: 26th Jun 2009 16:06
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Quote: "No, this is the DBC board so of course we all hate DBC here.
Buy it, and share your error messages with the community. "

That is not what I meant. I meant would it be a good option for me or would something like DarkBASIC Pro be better. I also think I will learn how to make good text games prior with normal BASIC rather than learn it in DarkBASIC because those commands are almost all the same. Thanks for the replies!

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:57
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Personally, I do recommend DarkBASIC Classic to start out with if you're just wanting to learn the basics of programming and maybe don't want to make large games (that doesn't mean that you can't use it to make large games, it's just harder). However, if you know you want to (eventually) start making games that use shaders, need more speed, supports better looking graphics and so on, then I say buy DarkBASIC Professional.

Both are equally as great and easy to learn, but DBPro is a bit more intimidating for beginners since it has a lot more commands than the DBC counterpart.

I remember when I got DarkBASIC Classic for my 15th birthday in 2007, I thought I could just whip it out and start making an awesome game that involved castles, ogres, bunnies and some kitty cats (no, I'm not going to explain that!). I quickly realized that I was quite wrong in the assumption that I'd be able to do that, and switched gears to start doing small things. Then I kept re-making the same kind of game over and over again so that I could better understand the use of sliding collision and variables. Then I started getting clever enough to make power-ups for the character in my game!

One thing I've learned is that if you try to hard-code your levels directly into your game instead of using a level editor, you'll quickly get tired of writing 'make object box' 100 times and might give up on the project altogether (I did that several times). I still don't know how to write my own level editor or even use one in a game, but I might start learning how to do that very soon.

At any rate, I definitely say start out with DBC, because it's not quite as intimidating as DBPro and it's quite easy to make a quick game inside of it.


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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:59 Edited at: 26th Jun 2009 19:04
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Quote: "I also think I will learn how to make good text games prior with normal BASIC rather than learn it in DarkBASIC because those commands are almost all the same."


The only command that's in Basic that's annoyingly different in Darkbasic is the MID$ command.

In regular Basic MID$ allows you to take several letters from a string. If a$ was "Darkbasic Pro is cooler!" and you had "mid$(a$,5,5)" it would extract "basic" (starting at the 5th character and taking out 5 characters). Darkbasics MID$ takes out a single character so you can only type "mid$(a$,5)" which results in "b" as the output.

There are ways around it... if you use this function instead of Darkbasics MID$ command it'll show the same results as Basics MID$:


Or if you get Pro you can add IanM's Matrix 1 Utilities Plug-In which fixes Darkbasics native MID$ command to Basics (and still keeps the old way too).

And yes, Darkbasic Pro is better. Run anything you make in Classic and run it in Pro and it's 100 times faster.

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Bluestar4
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 23:23
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Quote: "Run anything you make in Classic and run it in Pro and it's 100 times faster"

the load sound and load music, and load image commands are also slightly different. dbp loads all images as textures by default.
in short with pro you will have a lot of commands with extra parameters that isn't in dbc giving you greater control over how things are loaded and done mid$ is a good example as well so if you write in dbc , you will have to convert some of your code so that it works the way you intended.

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 00:17
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could we please just stop the DBC/DBP debate, its just getting repiticious (sp?)

whether you go with DBC or DBP really isnt a big choice, both allow coding up to a very high level, pro is just manufactured for bigger, more complex programs, so it runs them faster

just pick one and start coding

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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 01:29
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Go pro!
More power, more commands, more updates.
TCG have abandoned DBC so we have to live with its peculiar "personality", it's fun and both offer plenty to the hobbyist but pro just offers a bit more.

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.
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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 01:38 Edited at: 27th Jun 2009 01:39
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Quote: "Go pro!
More power, more commands, more updates.
TCG have abandoned DBC so we have to live with its peculiar "personality", it's fun and both offer plenty to the hobbyist but pro just offers a bit more."







But to answer ur q, Yes Db...........sigh.............Or Db pro is for u.......

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was too big.CHANGE IT OR DIE!!!!!
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 02:03 Edited at: 27th Jun 2009 02:04
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ok to end this thread ill just post this:

Pro:
faster to compile and run
better for larger programs
more commands
somewhat more intimidating because of larger command set
more expensive

DBC:
cheaper
has MORE than enough commands for nearly anything you need
slower (but not enough to cause severe problems)
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, DBC HAS US!!!

ok that basically sums it up, can we PLEASE end this now?

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 04:58
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Quote: "AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, DBC HAS US!!!"


You convinced me to use Classic with that line and I already own both.

Either way you'll have fun making your own games.

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Bluestar4
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 08:37
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Quote: "could we please just stop the DBC/DBP debate, its just getting repiticious "

I think there is a conspiracty and the sole purpose of their debate is to annoy you !
Quote: "AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, DBC HAS US"

good point ! I think the people here are very encouraging and polite. while dbc may be older, slower, have less commands, it does have dedicated users of good people that are willing to help you when you need it and that counts a lot to me

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AcP2142
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 08:55
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ok sounds great. nice little debate you guys held on this thread. i am going with DBC first I have decided. No need to have this thread open anymore. If a mod happens to see this you can lock it i suppose. thank you for all the feedback and information that you provided to help me make a decision. Thanks again.

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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 12:40
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Quote: "faster to compile and run"


SLOWER to compile, faster to run.

I have both, and I wasn't impressed by DBP... I like challenges that come along with DBC, especially speed challenges. It is a real art to keep a game at a reasonable fps rate with a lot of objects in the game. I came up with my fps regulator code. Basically, it checks how long it takes to render 60 frames, then skips a few frames evenly spread in the next loop so the game loop runs always at 60 fps, no matter how many objects you have in the game. It still needs some fine tuning though...

Anyway, back to this thread, I recommend DBP, although I like DBC better. A bit twisted...

TheComet


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Bluestar4
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 13:43
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Quote: " If a mod happens to see this you can lock it i suppose"
I think this question is ask about once a week so it might be best to leave it up for a week or so as this thread has really good points exspressed in it for both dbc and dbp

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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 15:38
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Quote: "AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, DBC HAS US!!"

That is actually a good point that I overlooked.
I think the DBC board is much better than other boards mainly because it IS old so most of us have been using it for years.
I'm still in shock from that thread getting locked about a week ago haha, oh well it's nearly off the page now.

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AcP2142
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 15:50
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OK. I am fine with it being left open it is just that it sounded like you just wanted to be done with the debate. That is the reason for the comment. Also, you guys do seem nicer on this board than people on the others. So let me get this straight Comet.... you recommend DBP even though you prefer DBC. What is that about?!!
Now if a mod sees this leave it open!!!!!!!!!!!

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arbiter chewbacca hybrid
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 17:11
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Even though I have DBC I still try to use pro as much as possible.


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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 19:25
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Quote: "So let me get this straight Comet.... you recommend DBP even though you prefer DBC. What is that about?!!"


Time to whip out my old image again:



As you can see, the left side is DBP and the right side is DBC. Do you see a difference? I started with DBC, and have been coding in DBC for 4 years before I found out that DBP exists. So I downloaded it, and checked it out, but some magical force which I can not understand, must have been subconscious, pulled me back to DBC.

So, getting back to the image, DBP renders MUCH better, faster, and nicer. I recommend DBP, because I don't want you to be pulled into the curse like me. I also recommend DBP, because it is a bit more advanced. It is a hard step to go from DBC to DBP for me, so I am basically stuck with DBC. So start with DBP straight off.

Also, DBC is not supported anymore (like someone mentioned above), it is considered to be slow, old fashioned, and a "beginners language", and is crap compared with DBP.

On the positive side, let me inspire you with SoulHunter or Dream. These games were made with DBC. So don't think you can't achieve anything with it. It is powerful.

Quote: "DBP uses the dark side of the force..."


And I also just noticed that I have never written such weird words before... Must be getting old and crazy...

TheComet


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Latch
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 21:20
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@TheComet
The image comparison may be skewed. by default, DBPro will use your Desktop bit depth which is probably 32, DBC will default to 16 bit. The sphere in DBPro may have more polygons or use a different normal calculation for shading. Plus the material settings and lighting may be set differently between the two on default and is controllable.

To even the playing field, set both versions of DarkBASIC to your desktop resolution, load in a custom made 3d model, make sure the material settings and light are set up the same in both.

@AcP2142
If you want to tinker, run right out of the box, don't worry about upgrades, pay less money, then DBC is the way to go. If you want to be up to date with Windows and Direct X, pay a bit more, keep up on upgrades, but have more versatility and modern graphics capabilities, DBPro is the answer.

Enjoy your day.
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 21:39
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just call me arbiter chewbacca hybrid for this, but I think it may be a good idea to have this stickied, it provides GREAT pros and cons about DBC/DBP

anyone agree?

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Clbembry
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LOL that's funny ^
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TDK
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I have DBC and DBP and I would say that DBP is by far the better product of the two.

However... I prefer using DBC too - and I'm not sure why either.

Maybe it's the added challenge. DBC lacks many of the added commands and speed of DBP, so it's more satisfying when you create something that works nicely.

A program in DBP of 100 lines might take 600 lines in DBC but it's a real sense of achievement when you manage it.

Of course, there are things you can do in DBP that simply aren't possible in DBC, but they aren't things that beginners need to worry about just yet.

So, as I've said many times before, if you have never written a computer program before and don't know if you'll take to it, DBC is a cheap way to test the water.

Learning a programming language from scratch is very similar to learning a spoken language - most people don't realise how difficult it actually is! But, being a dialect of BASIC, DB is a little easier - like learning German, whereas learning C++ might be like learning Chinese...

If you don't mind paying a bit more and are convinced you are going to be committed to the difficult task of learning to program, then DBP is the way to go.

Barrie

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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 23:46
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C++ isnt that hard to learn, im doing so right now

however I do have to agree with you that C++ is un-nessecarily (im sure I screwed that word all to hell) complicated

for example, these 2 codes to exactly the same thing:

DBC:

print "Hello World"
suspend for key

C++:

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main() {
cout << "Hello World";
system("Pause");

return 0;
}


see, C++ is overly complicated but once you understand stuff its no harder to use than DBC

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Brick Break
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 23:48
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Thankfully there is DarkGDK...

I need help with Sparky's...
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That1Smart Guy
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 23:49
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right, I havent used any DGDK commands yet but I like the way they merged DBC and C++ with it

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 28th Jun 2009 00:42
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Quote: "AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, DBC HAS US!!"


I thought the goal was to show the pros smartguy.

Any language with a single letter is bad news. I shudder at having to use C once more. The only cool part about it was that I was programming a robot with it (most was done for me already though, I just modified to change controls and add stuff in here and there).

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AcP2142
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Posted: 28th Jun 2009 05:44
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hmm. there is a reason i want to learn DarkBASIC and not C++. there has been a lot of posts on this thread. glad that i could start a useful thread for newcomers so they don't have to ask the same question. anyway... i think DBP is a good option but i REALLY want to participate in DarkNOOBS so I am going to have to stay with my first thought of getting DBC. I will get DBP as soon as I learn DBC and then use both afterward.

The only thing constant in life is CHANGE.
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Bluestar4
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Posted: 28th Jun 2009 09:50
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Quote: "Thankfully there is DarkGDK"

yes, but its only slightly faster than dbc using vc+2009
however, if you use vc+2005 its like lightning!
Not sure why this is the case though.
back to comparing the two,
dbp supports dynamic arrays, dbc does not.
dbp is more technical, dbc is not.
dbp has limited icon support, dbc has none
there are tons of other feature, but this should do.
the one reason I personally dislike dbp is that its project based.
With dbc you can use a single source file so there is a lot less fuss when it comes to backing up files.
My personal preferences as far as languages are :
1. dbc
2. c#
3. dbp
4. c+
5. pascal
Ofourse I always like to empasise that you should use the right tool for the right job. Ofcoures that means that sometimes I make projects in a languages I dislike but the end result makes the effort worth it. For example , I wouldn't think of doing a pure text game using anything but c+ because to do pure text games in dbc or dbp is a waste. Not to mention that the exe size will be quite large. (I recomend c for this)
but if your going to make the next great "if" game then speed wont be an issue and you can use dbc for that and it will turn out as great as your skill can make it.
for making good windows apps I love vc#2009 as its simply fantastic for doing that. (sorry move on over c+)

bluestar4~
---Missle Might - Hero Battles - Zillipede --- which do you like the best ?
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TheComet
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 28th Jun 2009 13:00
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@ TDK

Wow, you're back!!!

Seems like you have got the curse too... Let's give it a name!

TheComet


Make the path of your enemies easier with Waypoint Pro!
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