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Geek Culture / Is there an advantage to 64 bit vs 32 bit?

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Raybrite2
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 13:50
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I know that when I go to 64 bit, I will use double the space on everything. I am not sure if the games I make on 64 bit will run on 32 bit.
Are there any real big advantages that I should know about?
I managed to also get 2GB Ram and a 500 GB Hard Drive.
Also I will have to use VISTA which I am not sure of. I understand some of my programs may not work right.
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Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 14:07
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64-bit can for example handle a LOT more memory then 32-bit. 32-bit has the limit going at 4 gb, while 64-bit has a LOT more capabilities on that front (think the limit is somewhere by 64 gb or 128 gb, possibly higher, not sure, lol).

Also it is theoretically faster (have not looked into it, which is why I say "theoretically").

This is what wikipedia say about the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 14:48
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Isn't it supposed to be able to see ~ 18EB (seeing as 2^32 ~= 4.3 * 10 ^ 9, while 2^64 ~= 1.8 * 10 ^ 19)?

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IanM
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 15:10 Edited at: 26th Jun 2009 16:08
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You might think so, but you'd be wrong. I'm not sure about the exact numbers for Intel, but AMD uses 48 bits for addresses.

[EDIT]
It's currently 40 bits physical address and 48 bits virtual.

Utility plug-ins collection (updated 28/03/09) and
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 15:18
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Quote: "I know that when I go to 64 bit, I will use double the space on everything."


Err why? Just using a 64-bit OS doesn't mean the file sizes of everything automatically double. 64-bit just refers to the amount of data the CPU can effectively handle in a single operation.

Quote: "I am not sure if the games I make on 64 bit will run on 32 bit."


Unless you add something which is specifically designed for a 64-bit architecture into your games, then they will work fine on 32-bit because they will BE 32-bit apps.

Quote: "Are there any real big advantages that I should know about?"


Speed, ESPECIALLY when multi-tasking under a 64-bit OS. Also some apps come in native 64-bit versions (I have Photoshop CS4 64-bit and Cinema 4D 64-bit versions installed here). These take advantage of the increased amount of data the CPU(s) can shift around, so basically run quicker.

Also 64-bit OSs can access loads more RAM than 32-bit can. I have 8GB RAM in this PC. A 32-bit OS maxes out at something like 3.2GB.

Quote: "Also I will have to use VISTA which I am not sure of. I understand some of my programs may not work right."


Possibly, if they are really old and never had a Vista update. Even then you can try running them under XP emulation (it's a setting when you right-click apps in Vista). But yes, it still may not work. The biggest problem is usually hardware drivers - lots of those for really old kit don't come in 64-bit versions. Check first.

Honestly the difference between 64/32, from a "what works" perspective is almost nothing. If you install a 32-bit app Vista just puts it into "Program Files (x86)" for you. Simple as that.


http://www.photonstorm.com
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n008
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:41
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64 bit systems can support over a billion gigabytes of RAM and are a bit faster, I think.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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Roxas
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:51
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64bit is a lot faster for 64bit compiled apps. It can have problems with 32bit apps tho. It also supports more RAM without use of PAE (Which is commong thing on 32bit server machines) If you make app in 64bit and want it to work with 32bit you have to make new build target and link all 64bit libraries with 32bit ones and compile it for 32bit.

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Mr Bigglesworth
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:52
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Quote: "16.8 million terabyte capacity"

Quoted from the wikipedia page, thats a lot of RAM.
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kBessa
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 19:20
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It's simple to calculate:

32-bit: 2^32 = 4.294.967.296 bytes or 4GB
64-bit: 2^64 = 18.446.744.073.709.551.616 bytes, or as said, about 16.8 million TB

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JoelJ
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 19:43 Edited at: 26th Jun 2009 19:45
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Quote: "It's simple to calculate:

32-bit: 2^32 = 4.294.967.296 bytes or 4GB
64-bit: 2^64 = 18.446.744.073.709.551.616 bytes, or as said, about 16.8 million TB"


That's all theoretical. It doesn't mean Vista (or any other operating system) supports/allows it.

I was just reading:
Quote: "
* Vista Basic: 8 GB
* Vista Home Premium: 16 GB
* Vista Business/Enterprise/Ultimate: 128+ GB "

it may have changed since the article I was reading was written.

I couldn't imagine why a Home user would need 16gb of RAM though. It would be awesome, just because you would NEVER have to worry about how much ram you're using.

Your mother has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
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n008
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 20:08
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Well, it also depends on your Mobo, too...

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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AndrewT
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 20:31
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Quote: "It would be awesome, just because you would NEVER have to worry about how much ram you're using."


It SOUNDS like it would be awesome, until software developers start feeling the same way and make slow, bloated, memory-hogging software...oh wait, that already happened!

i like orange
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 20:43
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The more things change to more they stay the same... These same discussions happened when 8 bit went to 16 bit. Then again when 16 went to 32. "Why do we need more? I will never need that much memory," etc. I bet no one would want to go back to 8 bit computing though this same arguments happened then. Today it is 64 bit. In a few years 128? 256? It only means things are getting better
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 21:06
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Quote: "You might think so, but you'd be wrong. I'm not sure about the exact numbers for Intel, but AMD uses 48 bits for addresses.

[EDIT]
It's currently 40 bits physical address and 48 bits virtual."

I see. Well, that's good enough for the time being still...

@Richard Davey:
Quote: "(I have Photoshop CS4 64-bit and Cinema 4D 64-bit versions installed here)."

This is really off topic (sorry Raybrite2), but I just have to ask, can you please tell me how to successfully export a model with textures/materials and animation from C4D that would work peoperly with DBP?
Me and a friend have been trying to get our heads around this for more than two years by now
Unfortunately, he is the modeller, so I don't know what version or anything he has.
Would be forever grateful

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kBessa
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 21:07
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It might be theorical, but about 15 years people would say nobody would ever use more than 4GB of RAM.

What I really think about this is that the total ammount of memory for 64-bit won't be reached anytime soon. It has passed about 25 years to get from mere KBs of memory to the total ammount of 4GB. Imagine how much time will go by until we get from 4GB to 16.800.000.000 GB or RAM?

I think a complete upgrade to 64-bit systems will be mandatory in the next five to seven years, but getting from that to 128-bit, I really think it will take a loooooot of time.

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