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Program Announcements / [STICKY] Newton Game Dynamics WRAPPER v1.53

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Kryogenik
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 19:25
Hey, tiresius. I'm kind of confused with newton vehicles. I made a post about it in the DBPro board, but I no responses: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167227&b=1
Awesome wrapper by the way!

Codesurge is so awesome, thanks Hyrichter.
tiresius
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 18:09 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 18:09
Well vehicle setup is not simple, that's for sure. There are two demos that come with Newton, one is a media-less vehicle that works okay. Then there's a "fiero" demo which has pretty nice vehicle settings. I would suggest going over these demos and tweaking them until you figure out what the commands do.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Kryogenik
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 11:13
Hey, tiresius. I messed with the values like you said, and my car is pretty stable now. The only thing I can't figure out how to do is make the vehicle faster. It seems like none of the parameters in NDB_NewtonVehicleAddTire affect the speed of the car. And no matter how much torque I put on the tire, there is a certain max speed for the car. Is there some kind of NDB_NewtonSetVehicleMaxSpeed command or something, or am I just doing something wrong. I have to keep it at 30 fps, by the way. Here's my code (the terrain function doesn't do anything in this code)

Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks

Codesurge is so awesome, thanks Hyrichter.
Kryogenik
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 18:48
More problems http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167227&b=1

Codesurge is so awesome, thanks Hyrichter.
BMacZero
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Posted: 10th Apr 2010 06:37
I just switched to this from DarkPhysics after getting fed up with several key, nonfunctional commands...good experience so far . My logs are currently doing backflips across my BlitzTerrain, but at least they don't twitch when they stop anymore .

Visigoth
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Posted: 26th May 2010 13:04
@tiresius,
After reading about DarkPhysics and PhysX and then the up and coming Havoc wrapper, I decided to revisit Newton.
Wow, just wow.
Last time I tried it out, quite a while back, I had some problems with the demos.
Not this time, everything smooth as glass, and, fast!
I think I will be using this as the physics solution for my R/C flight sim!
Thanks for all your hard work on this.
Nice job!
tiresius
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Posted: 26th May 2010 18:42
Hi Visigoth. Glad you like it now.

I don't think I've seen a flight sim using Newton here yet but it sounds like fun: impulses on the wing tips for lift, drag, etc. Quite a bit to keep track of. Sounds cool!


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Visigoth
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Posted: 29th May 2010 06:25 Edited at: 29th May 2010 06:26
@tiresius
Is this the proper thread to ask questions about using Newton?
I am working thru the tuts, and decided to just start by tweaking tut 1, to get an idea of how it all works from square 1.
With regards to the SetOmega command, no matter what I do to the BodySetMassMatrix or the SetOmega, it always takes about 50 seconds for the cube to spin down.
Am I to assume this is because I need to apply other forces? Is it because this simple demo would be like a cube in a no gravity, no atmosphere environment?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm new to this whole physics thing, and want to make sure I understand the commands proper and just what they do.
Thanks.
Thebeely
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Posted: 29th May 2010 15:57
Quote: "With regards to the SetOmega command, no matter what I do to the BodySetMassMatrix or the SetOmega, it always takes about 50 seconds for the cube to spin down."


I believe it's because of dampening? Just slow the spinning down manualy.
Visigoth
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Posted: 30th May 2010 07:11 Edited at: 30th May 2010 07:13
@Thebeely
And, why would I do that? That's what physics is all about!

I have been playing, and found out about gravity. Without any gravity set, or, any friction, the cube I made will spin for ages.
You DO need other forces to effect the rotation, as well as position, and velocity.

The thing I'm trying to figure out now is scale. Like in Newton, what is 1 unit in space equal to? I can't get realistic gravity unless I set it to a very high value, like -500.0, not the -9.8 in the docs. There has to be some scale factor, something that says 1 unit = 1 meter or something.

Still playing, and having alot of fun. I even made a function to DRILL thru a static object!

This has got to be the coolest, most useful plugin EVER!
Thebeely
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Posted: 30th May 2010 11:50
Quote: "The thing I'm trying to figure out now is scale. Like in Newton, what is 1 unit in space equal to? I can't get realistic gravity unless I set it to a very high value, like -500.0, not the -9.8 in the docs. There has to be some scale factor, something that says 1 unit = 1 meter or something.
"


I believe you need to scale it by 10.

And what I meant is that you need to apply another force to slow it down, or just set a lower value for omega (in time).
Visigoth
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Posted: 31st May 2010 14:43
I did a little test, and it appears to be a 1 unit = 1 meter scale. I just dropped a cube from a height of 400 units and measured the time it took to hit a plane at 0. It takes roughly 11 seconds, not too far off from the real calulations (about 9 secs for 400 meter fall)
So, I'll either make my world scale 1 unit = 1 meter, or, scale the gravity to the model scale.
I downloaded the Newton SDK, but not too much more info in the help files their, either.
Unless someone knows for sure, I will assume a 1 unit = 1 meter scale.
tiresius
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 04:35
Visigoth:
Like you've found, 1 Newton Unit = 1 Meter

I would recommend not going into the extremes when scaling the world, as floating point accuracy comes into question when things are too big.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Thebeely
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 00:04 Edited at: 10th Jun 2010 00:04
I believe I found a bug -> NDB_BodySetLiquid doesn't do ANYTHING. SetStandardLiquid works, but this doesn't.
If anyone's interested in looking into this, I'd be really gratefull, since I'm currently hendicaped without it.
Thanks a lot!
tiresius
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Posted: 10th Jun 2010 15:46
If you can post a small example of it not working I will try to take a look. My time for programming has been reduced to nothing lately, though. So I'm not sure when I can get to it.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Thebeely
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Posted: 11th Jun 2010 00:46 Edited at: 11th Jun 2010 00:46
You can just change the demo of buoyancy and in "MakeBox" function (or whichever) use the NDB_BodySetLiquid with any values (including the gravity vector) and it won't change anything. Setting the standard liquid works perfectly, as I said.

There's pretty much no need for an example since it never does anything and I have tried MANY different combinations with the same result every time - no result at all. Anyway, this is "modified" MakeBox function, just replace the one in buoyancy demo with this one, and you'll see it doesn't do anything. The same result is with any values you set. Even when standard liquid is not set.



Many thanks for responding
tiresius
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Posted: 11th Jun 2010 05:25
Hello there.

I looked at the wrapper source and could you try this?

NDB_BodySetBuoyancy Body, 2

Code shows that if it is 0 it turns off bouyancy, if it is 1 it uses standard bouyancy, anything else (greater than 1) uses the body's bouyancy as set by NDB_BodySetLiquid.

Documentation should be updated if this proves true. Let me know your results.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Thebeely
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Posted: 11th Jun 2010 16:13 Edited at: 11th Jun 2010 17:01
Nope, nothing It's like it isn't even there.
I've tried my project and the demo with different setings and nothing works.

Just a stupid question, does the wrapper call the "BodySetLiquid" function in the engine at all?

Again, thanks for your time.

[edit]
Anything greater than 1 acts like it's 0.

[edit2]
"LiquidDensity" retrieved by "NDB_BodyGetLiquid" is always 0, but still, standard liquid "overrides" this completley (even when standard liquid isn't set). Just as I said earlier.
Thebeely
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Posted: 17th Jun 2010 15:27
Just want to know if I should drop this or there is hope for it to be fixed. Sorry if I'm too pushy
tiresius
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Posted: 21st Jun 2010 16:50
I looked at this last night for a while but didn't get too far. I did find a bug with NDB_BodySetLiquid where it was only setting the density of the first object in the array. I was sure that would be the fix but my test example still shows the buoyancy being ignored on these objects where the buoyancy values are set per object.

I am still working on trapping out what is happening in the DLL but my C++ skills are minimal, so it is slow going.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
tiresius
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2010 17:35 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2010 17:36
Thebeely-
I found the issue and it is fixed. It was the problem I mentioned above... I was just being a dummy about testing the fix.

If you feel like it, please send me a small example program showing the force scaling issue you reported a little while ago. Perhaps I can add a NoScale flag while I'm messing about in the wrapper, and then you will get a two-fer special on Newton updates!

I'll update the documentation and upload the archive once everything is set.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
tiresius
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 06:46
Alright I had a way to test the force scaling on my project, and it looks to be working correctly.

I've updated the archive online, which includes some new documentation for the following commands:

NDB_BodySetLiquid
NDB_BodySetBuoyancy
NDB_BodyAddForceLocal
NDB_BodySetForceLocal
NDB_BodyAddForceGlobal
NDB_BodySetForceGlobal

Try it out and let me know how it works for you.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Thebeely
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 17:07
OMG, that is so awesome And you're so awesome
It works like a charm! I haven't tested the force scaling yet (got general physics test tomorrow), but water is working perfectly

Here's a screeny

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tiresius
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 17:38
I'm glad it worked. Let me know how the NoScale flag works for you.

You better make something wonderful with Newton now because that was the product of sweating 6 hours in my hot upstairs and lots of C++ frustration right there.

How do you get a blob of water like that? Do you set the buoyancy plane real-time for all your objects? You are taking Newton in an unusual (and interesting!) direction which is why you are running into 8 year-old bugs.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Thebeely
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2010 18:23
Quote: "I'm glad it worked. Let me know how the NoScale flag works for you.

You better make something wonderful with Newton now because that was the product of sweating 6 hours in my hot upstairs and lots of C++ frustration right there.

How do you get a blob of water like that? Do you set the buoyancy plane real-time for all your objects? You are taking Newton in an unusual (and interesting!) direction which is why you are running into 8 year-old bugs."


I'm planning on working on this as soon as I finish my exams and make one other app ($$$) And slowly along the way.

And for blob, yes, setting the buoyancy plane real-time for every object.

Again, I can't express how happy and grateful I am about this
swissolo
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Posted: 21st Aug 2010 20:12
@ tiresius:
I was just wondering if it had came up before that when I use the Col = NDB_NewtonCreateConvexHull(obj) command everything just crashes. It works in the examples but not outside of them.
Any idea why?

swis
tiresius
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2010 07:19 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2010 07:21
No idea without more code as an example. If it is a particular model, that would help too.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
swissolo
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2010 00:28 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2010 02:05
Heh, figuired you would want the code, I'll have to dig it out ,
I've tried many differnt models, including the included ones. Give me a second and I'll edit this post...

Edit:

Raise 1/2/3/4 indicate what set of vertices to raise, but I really just load/ rotate differnt models

Oh, and this seems to crash too NDB_NewtonBodySetMassMatrix Body, 1.0

swis
tiresius
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2010 07:51
If your object works inside the examples but not in your program, then I'm afraid you'll have to debug your code some more to see why it's not happy. That function doesn't tell me enough about what is going on in your code, I can only make guesses. Sorry.

I would compare your code to the examples and see what is missing. Newton requires a bit of setup in order to work and sometimes we forget things that need to be done.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
swissolo
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2010 18:32
Is there anything else that would need to be included that isn't in demo01 - the basics?

swis
tiresius
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2010 22:13
Try comparing your code to Demo 2, that actually uses the Convex Hull primitives? This one sticks out to me:



A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
swissolo
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Posted: 24th Aug 2010 01:46 Edited at: 24th Aug 2010 15:35
Heh, I was just being, well a little lazy, hoping I wouldn't have to dig too much into demo 2. I don't see how never calling a function could do anything, but somehow, it worked. Thanks!
Edit: I was sure I read that v1.53 didn't need this command, but I guess not.

swis
tiresius
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Posted: 25th Aug 2010 07:56
That "never called" function forces DBPro to include the memblock DLL in your EXE. The newton wrapper requires memblocks in order to make convex hulls. The way it crashes is kind of cheesey but it's always been that way and I'm not sure how to make it better. Glad it works for you.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
BMacZero
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Posted: 28th Sep 2010 19:04
I've got a quick question about NDB_RotateVector. The help and keyword files say it only has one parameter, but the compiler says "Parameter mismatch". It looks like the DLL has two integer parameters. What's the second one for?


Latest progress: Fog of War implemented; frustrated by pathfinding >.>
tiresius
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Posted: 29th Sep 2010 08:11
The help and keywords are wrong. I'll have to update it when I get a chance.

NDB_RotateVector( int src, int dest )
NDB_UnrotateVector( int src, int dest )
NDB_TransformVector( int src, int dest )
NDB_UntransformVector( int src, int dest )

These src/dest values are the vector positions 1-4 in the temp matrix (accessible by NDB_SetVector and NDB_GetVector_X/Y/Z/W). It performs the function on the src vector and assigns the result to the dest vector.

I don't know when it changed to the src/dest version but the help and keywords were never updated.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
BMacZero
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Posted: 29th Sep 2010 20:49
Thanks .


Latest progress: Fog of War implemented; frustrated by pathfinding >.>
Clonkex
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 04:51
I'm glad someone finally came and updated it. It had some serious (and not-so-serious) bugs. Plus, it's so good it needs to have continuing development.

Some features I would like to see (I haven't looked since downloading the latest version, if they're already there plz say so):

- Explanation of the Mass of Inertia stuff
- Easier implementation of the MoI stuff
- Easy vehicle wrapper (joking, it seems no one can make an easy vehicle wrapper)

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 18th Oct 2010 18:51
Just thought I'd post a link to a little project I'm doing to learn about Newton - working great, even with a bunch of vehicles .

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=175892&b=8


Latest progress: Fog of War implemented; frustrated by pathfinding >.>
TuPP3
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Posted: 19th Oct 2010 21:38 Edited at: 19th Oct 2010 21:46
Are you still working on Newton wrapper? That is great news, I love the Newton physics engine although the 1.53 is very old nowadays.

Is anyone capable enough to try making 2.0 wrapper for DarkBASIC? I think that would be a lot of work and time, but it would really be the best physics for Darkbasic.

It was a while ago when I tried to make ping pong game and ran into problem with the 1.53, it doesn't have edge correction so occasionally(50%) the ball won't bounce -> dead end.

Julio Jerez posted this:
Quote: "I am sorry that for almost 7 years the people using DarkBasic refuses to use the new version of Newton.
They should put a message to let people know that Newton 1.53 is an old version and should no be used.
If they do not want to support Newton anymore, I beliebe it is irresponsable for then not to tell people what other alternative to use.
As I undertand Dark Basic is not free, you pay for it, they sopdul tell you what solution to use.
They do not want to use Newton, because they get funding fropm Agia to support comercial Physics Engines. They should provide you a solution because they also charge you for the engine.
If they do not, then you should consider abandone Dark Basic altogether and use something like Irrlith, Ogre, TV3d, or even Game Studio which have more active comunities.
There are many free engines with more than one physics solution outthere."


I know there there's few arguable things, but it is true that 2.0 Newton would mean a lot for DarkBasic, is there any really up to date physics engines for us?(Sparky's and Newton are great though)

But I've two questions about Newton I wish someone could answer:
1.
Is it possible/wise to have bullet physic in Newton? If the bullet is moving 800m/s, it would record the collision every 13m(60fps) which isn't usable at all, even with continous collision.
To fix this, is it anyhow possible/wise to raycast between every location of the bullet to achieve collision like this:


2.
Is it possible to have 2 different static collisions? I mean I would prefer very simple collisions for example stairs and complex objects.

But I have to have 100% accurate collision for bullets, to be able to shoot trought the smallest holes of objects.
bergice
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Posted: 19th Oct 2010 23:17
Hi, i noticed that this command:



Makes the program stop responding, same happens when i try to create the collision object for convex hulls.

51fa1db0ec7c4af52d93a6f5d0e86bc5
Clonkex
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Posted: 20th Oct 2010 08:56
Use the un-optimized version if it stops responding, that's what I did.

I sometimes raycast for every position of the bullet, yes. It works and is not too slow.

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

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tiresius
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 10:08
Fact: Wrapper 1.53 is indeed an old version of Newton, no longer supported by the Newton developers. I've made this clear in several posts before. My goal was to finish what Kjelle started and to end some soul-crushing bugs I was experiencing in my own DBPro project.
Fact: Don't mention 1.53 on the Newton forums, EVER, or you will get a reaction like that every time.
Fact: I don't have enough C++ skills to start over and make a wrapper for Newton 2.0, nor the time to work through it and get the skills. I'm a copy/paste code monkey when it comes to C++. I have my own DBPro game project I've been working on forever, and updating the wrapper 1.32->1.53 took a significant effort for me even though it might be small potatoes for others to do.
Fact: There was an attempt by an ex-DBPro forum member a while ago to make a Newton 2.0 wrapper but it was abandoned. http://dbpnewton.origo.ethz.ch/

There just aren't enough Xarshis, Kaedrohos, IanMs and whoever else you know like that in the DBPro community to fill in all the needs of DBPro users. And I am but a mere pimple on the backside of those folks. Sorry.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Clonkex
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Posted: 27th Oct 2010 05:36 Edited at: 5th May 2011 08:22
Hey,

I'm trying to become a Xarshi, Kaedroho, or IanM! I'm still getting my around C++ but I'm nearly there! I am currently trying to make a wrapper for Bullet. It's not easy, nor is it going very well, but I'm getting there. So far it gets no errors. That's good. In terms of what it can do - well, not much. You can make an object fall by manually positioning a DBPro object to the returned values. I can't make that happen in the DLL yet cause to access DBPro stuff from C++ you need to use Globstruct and it requires the DirectX SDK. The SDK is ~400mb so I can't get it (if you could attach only the needed files I'd be grateful, I think most of the size is Microsoft junk).

Sorry for the long sentences but my hands just won't stop typing.

EDIT: I just realised a wrote "It's now easy". Fixed.

EDIT2: I wrote "object go fall". Also fixed.

EDIT3: This was all a long time ago. Since then I have downloaded the DirectX SDK. I'm currently stuck on rotations. They are difficult to work with outside DBPro. I also found a problem with getting the size of an object from C++. It simply returns an infinitely small number. I got the code right because I've used the position and angle commands in C++ and they work.

EDIT4: Separated "Hey," from the main body of the post.

EDIT5: These EDITs are becoming a changelog of sorts. Sorry.

Clonkex

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Brendy boy
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Posted: 29th Oct 2010 20:43

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 7th Jan 2011 09:37 Edited at: 7th Jan 2011 13:11
hey Thebeely are you still around ?

any chance of you uploading a copy with code or E-mail such

I've spent about 10 years looking at as many examples of peoples
code ether in DB OR DBP OR C++ OR older

it's only been in the last 2 years well the last 4 months ware
I final starting to understand

and with people putting out free additions like
"Newton Game Dynamics WRAPPER"

ware it cuts back on what I need to work out from scratch

one Idea I starting to work on is a wheel on a vehicle
that shows damaged dun to thanks to dark Physics cloth and metal

showing such happening to a vehicle will take a little more work
glass breaking it is still being one thing I trying to understand

I know I had found one example in the forum quite some time ago
and I know I saved it on one of the 9 dvd's of info I collected
I just have to locate it - 2 of the dvd's or 8.5 gb

I'm glad to see that "Newton Game Dynamics WRAPPER" got updated

I know there is 2.0 beta but it's in the c++ version at this time
no good to me at this time

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Ermes
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 14:53
very intresting, but i find very hard to understand because example are for already in know people. some other tutorials? do you know? thanks!



[img][/img]
tiresius
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 15:49
Start at Demo01 and work your way through them. Demo01 has more comments than code, I believe. Use the demos and tweak them, don't start out from scratch and expect to setup newton correctly on the first try. There is a learning curve... but don't give up!! It is worth the effort.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Ermes
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Posted: 6th Feb 2011 17:35
i see. i hope to understand something!!!! thanks!


Ciao facce da sedere!
Gunslinger
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Posted: 6th Feb 2011 20:25
Someone knows why the compiler is crashing at the end? The compiled app is running fine! But the compiler is crashing at the end if i use newton.

Win7 64bit
tiresius
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Location: MA USA
Posted: 7th Feb 2011 19:18
I was getting a compiler crash in Win7 64bit until I upgraded from 1.70 (or whatever DarkGame Studio is set at) to a 1.77 Release Candidate. You might want to try that. And for me, it wasn't able to make an EXE so not sure if this is the same issue you are seeing.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.

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