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Geek Culture / Something funny

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BMacZero
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 03:05
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That is clearly a very biased article - I'm not even sure if I trust the "statistics" it uses. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.



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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 03:37
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Well, half the people I know are either athiest, agnostic, or they just don't think about it. So, from my own personal experience, there are a great deal of non believers here.

Quote: "and the one where the majority of americans would vote against an atheist president, no matter what qualifications they or the other candidates have."


As if anybody in the goverment were elected because of their qualifications...

Don't drag me into a political debate. You WILL lose and we'll both break the AUP so severely that we're both banned from the forum forever.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 04:09
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Quote: "Well, half the people I know are either athiest, agnostic, or they just don't think about it. So, from my own personal experience, there are a great deal of non believers here."


Yes, though there are parts of America that are hugely religious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Religions_of_the_US.PNG

I'd have a fair few more comments to add on the matter, but the AUP forbids it, and we're probably jumping on the line anyway.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 04:25 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 04:25
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We're jumping back and forth over the line and saying "naah nah naah nah naaah nah"



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Diggsey
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 13:57
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Quote: "As if anybody in the goverment were elected because of their qualifications..."


I didn't say they were. The point is, that most people would vote against an atheist president, irrelevant of any other characteristics, meaning that religious beliefs are one of the biggest factors in deciding who is the president of america.


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monotonic
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 14:50 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 14:51
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Herakles:

No offence, but you sir, are a fool. "don't get into a politcal debate with me or you'll lose" spoken like a true ignoramus. Also I don't want to burst your bubble, well actually I take great pleasure in bursting it, but freedom is a luxury enjoyed in many countries, it's not just a thing enjoyed by the USA. I've never understood the 'USofA is the land of freedom' nonsense, I'm free and I live in England, WTF!!!!!!

We get taught R.E at school, you get false patriotism shoved down your necks and the good old stars and stripes placed in every bit of free space, I guess this is just incase you forget where you're from though right?

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 15:02
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Quote: "I'm free and I live in England, WTF!!!!!!"


You think you're free. Truth is, nobody in this world is free any more. Your prison is so elaborate you can only see everyone else's.

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lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 15:26
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Quote: "Where in the world did you get that? Lazerus was not a fallen angel."


Lazarus wasnt.

Lazerus was.

Wouldnt be aproperate for me to go in detail here, not the place or time for now.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes, That way, i wouldn't have your problems"
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monotonic
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 15:30
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I disagree, you could argue that we're all bound by rules and monitored in a big brother state so on and so forth. However I'm free to live my life as I wish, within the law obviously. I don't buy into the whole anarchist/socialist viewpoint of freedom.

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Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 18:31 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 18:32
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Quote: "Truth is, nobody in this world is free any more. Your prison is so elaborate you can only see everyone else's."


Yaaaaawn. People who live in a westernized country and say this kind of nonsense irritate me. You don't know how good you have it until you read up on a country where its people ACTUALLY aren't free.

- Will you be sent to 5 years of forced manual labour for complaining about the amount of food you're given?
- Will your wife, parents and all your children be punished and sent to a hard labour prison camp for life if you're caught communicating with a foreigner, forced to watch you publicly executed? If your wife is pregnant at the time the authorities will beat her and kill the baby, or have the baby born in the camp only to face a life-long hard labour sentence, forever labeled as the seed of dissent.
- Have you ever experienced your government starving you to death? Where you're so weak and hungry you have to steal a piece of bread, but have no energy to run so you take the beatings as you quickly eat your piece of bread?
- Have you ever scavenged for single kernels of corn along railway tracks all hours of the day, hoping that none of your friends are spying on you and reporting every negative thing you say about your situation to the authorities?

There are people out there who ACTUALLY live in a prison where they will NEVER escape, and they have done nothing wrong.

The simple action of you being negative about your government freely sets you apart from a huge chunk of the planet.


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lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 18:41 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 18:43
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Simple answer, Life's a B.

Long answer, it isnt worth it. By the time its finished and agreed with, some attrocity will negate the answer so forcibly changing the rules. We cant win, so enjoy what you have,

"Jealousy of what others have, will blind you to how good you really have it..."

"Sorrow for all those who cant live, will stop you living"

"...we know its thier, we know it happens, but we ignore it to stop our sanity breaking."


My meaning-full thoughts of the day.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes, That way, i wouldn't have your problems"
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2009 18:52 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2009 19:06
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Quote: "Yaaaaawn. People who live in a westernized country and say this kind of nonsense irritate me. You don't know how good you have it until you read up on a country where its people ACTUALLY aren't free. "


For some reason this reminds me of Mock The Week, a footballer had said, "we're being treated like slaves" to which, Russel Howard remarked, "I wonder if a few thousand years ago the Egyptians were thinking, 'Ah! We're being treated like footballers'"


The west isn't perfect, but actually, we've made a great deal of progress in our own society. Sure democracy is sometimes compromised when the government think they're doing "what's best for us", but we are more free than we were and more free than most other countries. And of course, it doesn't mean if the government does something wrong it doesn't mean we sit back, after all, we have the freedom to kick up a fuss about it.

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Herakles
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 10:15
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Quote: "I didn't say they were. The point is, that most people would vote against an atheist president, irrelevant of any other characteristics, meaning that religious beliefs are one of the biggest factors in deciding who is the president of america."


The people who become president are the ones with the best TV commercials. It doesn't matter if they're atheist, black, female, gay, or whatever. The presidency goes to whoever can sell themselves most effectively. They might have actual credentials, they might not, it doesn't make a difference as long as they get the most media attention.

Quote: "freedom is a luxury enjoyed in many countries, it's not just a thing enjoyed by the USA. I've never understood the 'USofA is the land of freedom' nonsense"


In other countries, the government is in charge of the nation. In countries such as England, you are lucky in that you have a very good government that allows the people to live their lives in relative freedom. They are wise enought to realize that a great deal of people would fight back to try to regain their freedom, and this would result in chaos. But the fact remains that the government has power and could take that freedom away if they chose to do so.

But in America (in the ideal anyway, the reality is somewhat different), the government is there to serve the people. It's job is to maintain our safety and freedom, and it has absolutely no right to take either one away. It would brake our most fundamental laws for them to attempt such a thing. For us, freedom is not a luxury, it is our RIGHT. Call it cliche patriotic silliness if you want, but wheter you agree with it or not, those are the ideals that our country was built upon and are at the heart of our laws.

Anyway... I'm done my rant. I've tried to sound as least offensive to non Americans as possible, but these are my beliefs we're talking about so I can't help but be a little opinionated.

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lazerus
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 13:19 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 13:21
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Good rant ^_^ though,

We brits dont like to play coy with our goverment, if somethings really wrong we speak up about it. Take thatcher.

She single handedly dragged us into a economic reccession. The police even rioted along with people in some places. Im rusty on this period to be honest so ill leave it to someone with more knowledge.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes, That way, i wouldn't have your problems"
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Diggsey
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 13:23
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Quote: "The people who become president are the ones with the best TV commercials. It doesn't matter if they're atheist, black, female, gay, or whatever. The presidency goes to whoever can sell themselves most effectively. They might have actual credentials, they might not, it doesn't make a difference as long as they get the most media attention."


And guess what makes the best commercials?
Strongly religious people raving about religion in every speech.


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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 13:33
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Quote: "But in America (in the ideal anyway, the reality is somewhat different), the government is there to serve the people. It's job is to maintain our safety and freedom, and it has absolutely no right to take either one away."

Yes, like in most countries.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 14:07
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I have no problem with debating this topic and I'd love to join in but I suspect it is probably breaking the AUP.

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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 14:16
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Ok, it's probably dancing on the line as BMacZero so wisely uttered.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 14:44
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Quote: "But in America (in the ideal anyway, the reality is somewhat different), the government is there to serve the people. It's job is to maintain our safety and freedom, and it has absolutely no right to take either one away. It would brake our most fundamental laws for them to attempt such a thing. For us, freedom is not a luxury, it is our RIGHT."


I don't understand, how is that different from say...England? The government is basically there to serve the people in any democracy where people get elected into office...
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 14:45
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@Herakles

there you go again, it's not a luxury for citizens of the USA it's a right, I think you'll find that freedom is a part of the human rights act, hence all human beings have that right. Believe it or not there are human beings living outside of the USA, and most countries take the human rights act seriously. I really think that this boils down to the fact that you get this land of freedom rubbish instilled into you from a young age. In fact isn't it one of your fundamental rights to bare arms? If you don't have a license for the said weapon though the police take it and charge you, which goes against your fundamental god given right, thus infringing upon your freedom. A bit hypocritical of a land of freedom don't you think.

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draknir_
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 16:39
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Quote: "Yes, though there are parts of America that are hugely religious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Religions_of_the_US.PNG"


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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 16:56
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Ah yes, and now for the gun issue. We've been into every other thing here so why not get it over it. I think guns kill people. We should ban people so that they won't get killed.

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xplosys
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 16:57
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Quote: "In fact isn't it one of your fundamental rights to bare arms? If you don't have a license for the said weapon though the police take it and charge you, which goes against your fundamental god given right, thus infringing upon your freedom. A bit hypocritical of a land of freedom don't you think."


Sorry, that's not true. We do have the right to bear arms and so far, they cannot be taken away, license or no. A license allows us to carry them concealed or in a public place. If you are a convicted criminal however, you lose that right and cannot bear arms. God didn't give us this right, our forefathers did.

Brian.

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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 17:31
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Well ok you cannot carry them in public without a license, that's not freedom, you are being told what to do by the government. Also, I know god didn't give you that right, that's simply a quote of what the average American says on the subject. You do realise that this "right" was given to you by some guy which means you're being told what you can and cannot do. The point I'm getting at is that many Americans believe the USA to be the land of the free and home of the brave, when in actual fact there's nothing that's exceptionally free or brave about the USA. It's the ignorance that winds me and many others up.

Herakles, I hope you begin to realise soon that there is a modern civilised world outside of the US, it'd be a shame if you grew old in ignorance.

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xplosys
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 17:57
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even us Americans who believe in those rights, and are proud of those who gave them to us. Some of us served and fought for those rights so all of us could enjoy them. I do not take these rights for granted, and I thank those who have fought and died to defend them for us.

I do not believe that I or we are better than anyone or anywhere else. I simply have pride in what I and this country have accomplished and the concept of life here - diluted as it has become. Please don't confuse pride with arrogance. You seem to have a heavy chip on your shoulder.

Brian.

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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 18:22
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Being proud of ones country or culture is good, assuming all other countries inferior and/or primitive in comparison is ridiculous (Herakles). I seem to have a chip on my shoulder?!? I'll leave that one alone. I really want to go into the true history here but it's not the place, suffice to say I don't see it in the same light as you, many things happened before and afterwards that seems to get ignored.

Just to prevent any confusion, I don't have a problem with the US or it's citizens, it's just certain things have been said that wound me up.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 18:26 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 18:28
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I think you've got a few generalisations in your posts and a couple of misconceptions and a chip on your shoulder, Monotonic, but your main message, that America isn't special in comparison to other Western countries is fair and that they're not 100% free as we aren't either, is received here.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with national pride, sure it's not the case for all Americans, as some are arrogant, but we all have our arrogant sods. The Americans are proud that they beat the English all those years ago and established their own nation based on new ideals, so they're proud of their forefathers for things like that.

When you think about it, the British still have national pride, whilst it may seem lost, the obvious pride would be when it comes to the world cup and the Olympics - honestly, how many in the UK root on for the best team or athlete? We still look back at some of our history fondly...ignoring the bad bits of course (like losing to those DAMN Americans! ), like Nelson and Winston Churchill.


Still, we can go on and fight about it...yes, lets, so we can have a rematch and take America back under British rule - America is rightfully ours, y'know?

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lazerus
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 18:30
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I can only see this escalating, remeber your footing people, though since this is not flaming, i cant see why this should be locked/ban hammered.

As with everything we say thier is a opinion, thier is nothing that isnt opinionated in this world. No-one can really force you to do anything. Life is just easier if we follow some set guidelines to how we should act and behave.

Before someone smart A. remarks what about the hooded figures behind the curtain holding the rifle. You still have a choice even when faced with a ulimatium you can still choose.
Quote: "
You seem to have a heavy chip on your shoulder."


Don't we all?

The more freedom we have, more responsibility follows.

Responsibility is a burden, so we loose lesser freedoms but still keep the weight and thus the cycle continues.

Just out of pure curiosity,

Thier are 21 major religions with sizes from 2.1 billion to 500k,

Does that mean 20 of those are wrong?

oh athesits are at 1.1 billion thats about 1/6 of the global population going to hell.

Surprising when you think about it.
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 18:36
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I don't see any generalisations in my posts, all the comments I made were based on the posts of other people. I don't have any harboured hatred or resentment, i just dislike ignorance.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 18:59 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 19:00
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Fairplay, but:

Quote: "Also, I know god didn't give you that right, that's simply a quote of what the average American says on the subject"


I question whether or not that's an 'average' American attitude, perhaps an American stereotype, stereotypes aren't always accurate, but either way you look at it, I'd argue that the statement is generalised. Unless of course you link me to a source that states, "72% of Americans who participated in this survey said that their rights were God given, as opposed to man-made"...but to apply to Americans as a whole would still require some generalisation, after all, how many would such a survey interview?

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lazerus
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:06 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 19:06
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That is where i was coming from be saying everything was opinion-ated. Interviers will choose people based on thier looks/staire/general presentation.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes, That way, i wouldn't have your problems"
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:16
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Damn you Seppuku, damn you! Okay maybe that was a bit of a generalisation, but it wasn't in a bad way, or at least wasn't meant to be. However, I can say 4/5 of the of the discussions I've had with north Americans did say that, I don't think that they actually believed god came down and told them to pack some shizzle. It's more a figure of speach that implies a natural right such as the right to live without prejudice. Putting the popular PC mentality aside I think most people have heard that statement several times before.

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xplosys
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:19
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I really don't know your history, and I probably should know more, but when I think of England it's not with what happened so long ago in mind. I think most Americans, as I do, look to you Brits as partners and friends in a troubled world, and not with any delusions of superiority. As someone else pointed out, I suppose there are always those who do.

I'm amused to see the back-and-forth about our succession, and look forward to a good fight, but at the moment we have bigger fish to fry!

Brian.

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lazerus
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:26
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yeah the world

Joking lol

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:47
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Fairplay Monotonic. Still, there are Americans who really do their country's image an injustice, here's me thinking of the conversation I overheard at a restaurant in Spain, by an American couple, "Wow, I didn't realise Spain had so much history, it must be a thousand years old or something."

Quote: "I'm amused to see the back-and-forth about our succession, and look forward to a good fight, but at the moment we have bigger fish to fry! "


We will rule America once again, don't you worry. Ever wondered what the Queen of England does everyday? She doesn't sit on her throne petting her Corgis, she's secretly planning...oh wait...maybe I've said too much.

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 19:52
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Quote: "For us, freedom is not a luxury, it is our RIGHT."


In reality, it's a luxury afforded by the lucky of the world.

Quote: "I think guns kill people. We should ban people so that they won't get killed."




Quote: "Still, there are Americans who really do their country's image an injustice"


The same could be said for dumb people from any country

@All - Let's divulge this away from religious talk, please. There's a few AUP line dancers here and I won't be afraid to whip out the padlock


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 20:00 Edited at: 4th Oct 2009 20:02
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Quote: "The same could be said for dumb people from any country"


Oh definitely, the Brits who go abroad to party can sometimes cause a bit of trouble and no doubt seem ignorant. Sadly, it can sometimes hurt a country's image.

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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 20:13
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Quote: "the Brits who go abroad to party can sometimes cause a bit of trouble and no doubt seem ignorant"


yeah I know drunken louts.

Quote: "I won't be afraid to whip out the padlock"


Sounds painful

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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Oct 2009 21:16
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Quote: "Oh definitely, the Brits who go abroad to party can sometimes cause a bit of trouble and no doubt seem ignorant. Sadly, it can sometimes hurt a country's image."

We have a "reality" show here were random norwegians go to Spain or wherever it is for free (I would assume, if they make an extra effort to act really stupid and entertaining and let some camera crew with them of course). They speak spanglish, act like children, they basically get drunk and make a fool out of themselves. I've never been so awfully embarrased for my country before. We make ruining a country's image prime-time television. I think they're done with it now, but I don't watch TV so I'm not very updated. Scared to turn it on in case they've begun with something that will put me in a restraining jacket. The bachelor and that show about some paradise almost did...

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Herakles
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 00:06
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> Monotonic

You're putting more into what I'm saying than what I meant. You seem to think that I'm saying "America is awesome, and everywhere else in the world is crap", and I can understand how you could be misconstruing it in such a way. But all I'm doing is comparing America to England and explaining their differences as I understand it, and I'm not saying that one is fundamentally better than the other. American ideals match my own personal beliefs more closely than any other country on the planet, which is why I still live here, but I'm not saying that those ideals are universally perfect or even match my own beliefs 100%.

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Grandma
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 01:50
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Quote: "American ideals match my own personal beliefs more closely than any other country on the planet"

Since there are ~200 countries, you should feel very lucky to be born in the one country that you like the most.

Like I said in kindergarten once: "I'm glad I wasn't born in china, I don't speak chinese".

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xplosys
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 02:29
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Quote: "I'm glad I wasn't born in china, I don't speak chinese"


Priceless!

Brian.

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Herakles
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 03:10
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Quote: "Since there are ~200 countries, you should feel very lucky to be born in the one country that you like the most."


I'm sure that one reason why I like this country so much is BECAUSE I was born and raised here.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 04:59
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Quote: "Quote: "Oh definitely, the Brits who go abroad to party can sometimes cause a bit of trouble and no doubt seem ignorant. Sadly, it can sometimes hurt a country's image."
We have a "reality" show here were random norwegians go to Spain or wherever it is for free (I would assume, if they make an extra effort to act really stupid and entertaining and let some camera crew with them of course). They speak spanglish, act like children, they basically get drunk and make a fool out of themselves. I've never been so awfully embarrased for my country before. We make ruining a country's image prime-time television. I think they're done with it now, but I don't watch TV so I'm not very updated. Scared to turn it on in case they've begun with something that will put me in a restraining jacket. The bachelor and that show about some paradise almost did..."


We have Sacha Baron Cohen, at least he pretends to be from Kazakhstan or Austria, so nobody he scars in the US thinks the Brits are that weird. Then again, we're responsible for Simon Cowell, Piers Morgan, Australia and the United States of America, so the world must really look down on us.

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Herakles
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 06:27 Edited at: 5th Oct 2009 06:28
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I do, however, think that English television is better than American television (judging by what English shows are shown in the US). American TV shows are all about sex, dancing, and that's pretty much it.

But I think we've strayed way too far from the OP.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 06:37
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Quote: "But I think we've strayed way too far from the OP."


When has that ever meant anything here?

Besides, the title is "something funny", so technically we're back on topic.

British comedy is something I can pride myself in, though there are some great American comedies. I've been going through the 1st 2 seasons of The Inbetweeners recently, funny as hell, yet quite sadly, relatable.

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Herakles
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 06:54
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We've got a few funny shows (Scrubs, Two and a Half Men, South Park, etc), but what English comedy I've seen has all been absolutely hillarious.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
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Fuzz
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 11:43
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Quote: "oh athesits are at 1.1 billion thats about 1/6 of the global population going to hell."


No it doesn't.

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Grandma
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 13:17 Edited at: 5th Oct 2009 13:23
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Quote: "I'm sure that one reason why I like this country so much is BECAUSE I was born and raised here."

Yeah, I was kind of hinting at that.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 5th Oct 2009 20:49
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Quote: "American ideals match my own personal beliefs more closely than any other country on the planet"

Intriguing. I like the ideals of Denmark quite personally.

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