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DarkBASIC Discussion / how dose this work

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Buzz Wilson
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 22:16
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i whant to know how to use this and what it can do for me. all i want to know is it good to get it or not.
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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 22:32
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You can make ANYTHING.

Of course, there are a few limitations, like RAM, poly count, texture sizes, and don't forget that sprites are really slow in DBC. But even I struggle to reach these limitations. So there is nothing to worry about.

You can make any game you want.

If you want exacter and smoother models, and have huge maps and huge processing, I'd recommend DBP, but if you are new to programming, this is for you.

TheComet


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Buzz Wilson
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 23:47 Edited at: 27th Oct 2009 23:52
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so it can do that but what can it do like codeing or placeing
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Caleb1994
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 01:34
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I don't quite understand what you me by coding? with the know-how you can code any type of game you want, and i have no idea what you mean by placing

New Site! Check it out \/
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Latch
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 03:54
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@Buzz Wilson
It's not a design environment where you can drag and drop things into place. You have to program (code) everything yourself.

Enjoy your day.
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Digger412
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 03:57
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I think by placing he means something like 3D Game Maker.

Yes, you can program anything you wish, your imagination and system specs are pretty much the limit. That said, don't take on something like a MMORPG for your first project - not to deter you from attempting one, but it is best to start out small. I've seen countless people turned off of true programming because they took too big of a bite when they started.
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demons breath
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 04:50 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 05:26
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If by placing you mean drag-and-drop then you should probably keep searching. But if you're willing to learn to code, this is a pretty easy language to learn. It's the gateway programming language. Kind of like the marijuana of coding. But just have a look through the forums and the tutorials and stuff before you make a purchase - I love DBC but I wouldn't want to advise someone to get it if they were going to buy it and find out that it wasn't what they were hoping for.

Bear in mind though that many of the questions on this forum will be more advanced than those you would initially come up against, so don't allow yourself to be instantly deterred by what seems complex. You start simple and build from it.

Also, like Digger412 says, don't be too ambitious. I've had it for almost 7 years (got it for Christmas when I was 13 and I'm 20 today) and I'm still working on 2D games (by choice to be fair, it's not like I'm trying for an FPS but I rather like figuring out how to make basic games). An MMORPG will most probably discourage you as soon as you start trying, so don't try and jump straight in, use the tutorials and suchlike to get a feel for the language.

Look around, decide how far you want to go with this first. It's easy to get into, which is a definite plus. It may not have the control that some other languages have, and on the other hand it's more code-based than if you're trying to make online games in Flash, but it's great fun.

I would advise it, but as with most things, it's all down to personal opinion.

EDIT: Just realised I got it the year before. Changed the post a little, but not enough for you to worry your pretty little heads about.

"A West Texas girl, just like me"
-Bush
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TDK
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 14:10
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I very nearly didn't approve this thread as it's so vague and it was bound to cause confusion. And I didn't have the time to answer it then.

Your question is so vague you could be talking about anything!

Say you drop a plant-pot in the yard and don't have a yard brush. You go down to the hardware shop, grab a tin of paint and say to the assistant, "i whant to know how to use this and what it can do for me. all i want to know is it good to get it or not.".

It is impossible for anyone to say if it is good for you to get as you don't say what you want to do.

Tell the shop assistant that you want to paint a wall and he'll tell you that it's good to get. Tell him you want to brush the mess up in the yard and he'll tell you the tin of paint is no good.

You are effectively asking the same question here.

TDK

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 14:47
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An example of some code would look like this:



This will display a rotating cube onto the screen.

TheComet


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Buzz Wilson
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 22:13 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 23:50
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i ment that it the Darkbasic codeing and if its easy or the FPS creator is better.

This is his mom, talking now. Thanks for being patient with him. He has created maps on halo and thinks he now can create his own games to place on his free website and is looking for a program to do click and drag to create his own game. Most likely 2D. What program is best to start out on and what program would be suggested for a new 13 year old to learn coding and future programmer. I want to encourage him to start learning programming and wish your folks to suggest where to start. He had troubles trying to download the tutorials with no success.
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Digger412
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 04:50
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DBPro isn't a click-and-drag type of game creation tool. Not having played Halo before, were the maps created in the game? Or separately? Are the maps 3D? If they are, then I think your son would have to recreate them in 2D (which wouldn't be too bad, I suppose).

If he were to go about creating a 2D shooter game or something, I presume that it wouldn't be overly difficult, especially since he can ask the community for help. I would, however, strongly suggest starting with something smaller than a 2D shooter.

As for what program to start out on, I'm biased. I've programmed in DBPro for 3 years now and love it, but I don't have near as much experience in other languages to merit my judgment as a valid example. However, DBPro is good for beginners, in my opinion.
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Caleb1994
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 05:31 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 05:33
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if he want's drag and drop then i don't think(as far as i know) that The Game Creators make anything that does 2d drag and drop. they have a 3d one(fps creator) other then that you have coding with dbp and dbc(those are kind of similar), and dark gdk, but i wouldn't recommend dark gdk for a beginner as the learning curve for c++ is a little much for a beginner.

Oh i forgot 3d game maker. it's a drag and drop, well 3d game maker lol. unlike fps creator it doesn't just do fps games. i haven't actually tested that one before though.

New Site! Check it out \/
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TDK
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 07:33 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 15:16
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In my opinion, drag and drop game makers are a bit of a waste of time. The games you create with them tend to be very 'samey' so you will get bored with both writing and playing them very quickly.

Dark Basic is a programming language which means you start with a blank canvas and are limited in what you can create only by your own imagination.

But with that flexibility comes more complexity when it comes to learning how to use it - just as with any language, like French or German.

Making a computer game is like making a recipe only in minute detail. Each step is detailed a line at a time in your program.

But, rather than saying "add two eggs", you need to say "go to the fridge, open the door, take two eggs, go to the bowl, crack each egg on the side of the bowl allowing the contents to fall into the bowl", and so on...

Even then, you may have to describe what a fridge is or exactly how to open the fridge door. The point is, it's not easy at first, but it's fun and you soon get the hang of it.

Drag and drop game makers have easy but few steps and limited ingredients, so however you use it, everything that comes out of the oven looks, smells and tastes like a cake.

Dark Basic gives you an empty piece of paper, unlimited ingredients and the ability to define your own steps. So, besides cakes, you can also make ice-cream, burgers and doughnuts!

You get the idea...

Learning to program is a long-term project and requires hard work and dedication. I'm still learing new things after 30 years...

You can't expect amazing results straight away, though getting good results in 3D with DB is considerably quicker than other programming languages.

Having said that, the skills and disciplines learnt with a 'proper' programming language (as opposed to drag 'n drop) can be transferred to more professional programming languages in years to come. And, unlike DnD game makers, DB can be used to write programs to solve school homework problems and other non-game applications.

DB comes in two flavours: DB Professional (DBP) and what is now referred to as DB 'Classic' (DBC).

DBP is the bigger brother of DBC but the basic commands available and usage are pretty much the same. I have both, but I still prefer to use DBC myself.

Although the programming 'bug' tends to bite most people and usually becomes quite addictive, DBC is cheaper if you have any doubts.

If money isn't a problem, DBP is the better product long-term, though when learning to program, you won't be doing anything with DBP that you can't do with DBC.

Your choice!

TDK

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Hacktank
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 08:27
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If after reading all the above arguements and your son still wants a drag and drop style game creation tool i suggest Game Maker http://www.yoyogames.com.

It allows for object oriented 2d/3d D&D code aswell as hard-codeing. It does not have any premades, you have total freedom over your creations. ( excluding the extreme slowness of the 3d renderer ) there is even a physics DLL for it.

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Medusa
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 22:24
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Programming of any kind 2d or 3d is difficult to start with mainly because you as a person already use a very advanced form of programming. This should immediately give you hope as it means you already have a knowledge of programming. The problem comes from trying to learn code when what you should be doing is perfecting algorithms which in turn will generate code.
An algorithm is basically a recipe for doing something. Every single thing you engage in on a daily basis involves progamming.
From getting washed in the morning to dressing to going to school to going shopping. We learn algorithms for each event from which our brain produces code. Programming works in the same way. When you answer the phone you are executing a program. The DO LOOP is the entire phone call which is done in SEQUENCE meaning you pick up the phone first before you speak. IF it's a sales call THEN you might use a stored FUNCTION such as 'no thanks' hang up, end call, END LOOP. A GOSUB would be to hand the phone to someone else. IF it's your uncle Charlie on the phone OR your Aunt May AND they wish to speak to your mum THEN give mum the phone ELSE give dad the phone.
This might sound droll but it proves that not only do you use programming but you even use the terms and words used in programming.
That said, how do you get started?
I started with 'THE GAMES FACTORY' an excellent drag & drop 2d games engine that allows you to make games fast. You also get to use the 'event' editor to introduce ready made code to your game. You can open up the free games that come with the games factory and study the simple code events in the event editor.
Lee Bamber of Dark Basic to give him his due provides a free trial version of Dark Basic with some very good 3d demos. The code from these demos will allow you to create similar games. There are dozens of small examples which teach you everything you will need to use the software. Even the mathematics used in gaming are formulas so you don't need to know how they work, just learn to use them.
Basically, play the games and then read through the code for that game. In time it gets easier. There is no fast way to learn programming.
Good Luck

mpc
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Buzz Wilson
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 22:27
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thank you for your comments. I downloded gamemaker 7.0 to get my start in game programing
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Libervurto
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 05:10
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Since this question seems to have been answered may I do a little hijacking? (That was the most polite hijack ever)

I had an idea a few weeks back for a game that would introduce people to programming. It's a puzzle solving game with a difference; the puzzles are solved using programming commands. The commands would be psuedo code: i.e. WALK LEFT would be used instead of going into detail about the variables involved. The player would be able to look at the detailed code if they wished and alter some parameters: i.e. WALK LEFT in detail could be [dec playerx,1] and the player would be able to change the dec parameter to -1 to see what happens.

The player is given a "coder's manual" that offers commands of increasing complexity as the game progresses - the manual also provides information on the real commands behind the pseudo code.

Guiding you through the game is an error message box who acts as your advisor.

@All
What do you think?

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.
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Latch
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 05:20 Edited at: 30th Oct 2009 05:21
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@Obese
You should read up on LOGO. It's an old language that served as an introduction to programming using much the same syntax as you are suggesting.

Enjoy your day.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 05:33
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@Latch
Ah the little turtle! Yes I'd completely forgotten about that. We were lucky enough to have one of those turtle robots for a day when I was in primary school.

TGC Forum - converting error messages into sarcasm since 2002.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 19:23
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@OBese:

That is a brilliant idea! If you made it in 3D I think that would be really cool.

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd, Oct 28th 2009
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TDK
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 19:47 Edited at: 30th Oct 2009 19:53
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Anyone remember 'Deeby The Robot'?

[Edit] Just looked and can't find it yet - it's very old and I may not have it any more.

What I have found though is the old web page for it from matedit.com (link below).

Download (750K)

TDK

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Username Arpegios
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 18:28 Edited at: 31st Oct 2009 22:08
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[Mod Edit] Post edited because it was a thread hijack and unrelated to the thread topic.

This may have been accidental, but whether it was or not, please read the stickies at the top of the board for further info.

TDK
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Digger412
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 21:07
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Could you please post this into it's own thread, instead of hijacking someone else's? Besides the fact that posting that here was incredibly rude, it distracts from the point of the thread. Thanks.
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